(Though, there may wish to be a limit on the spell. Wrath of God and Day of Judgment are only rares, and are extremely powerful in this setting for third levels.)
I suggested something to Burst about capping the access to spells in the quest thread me and Caex are in. He likes it and said he'd talked to Thorn about it, not sure if they added it in or not. However I have a suggestion for keeping the number of spells you use by this:
Common: 4x
Uncommon: 3x
Rare: 2x
Mythic: 2x
That way you play more conservatively with the more powerful spells but since your knowledge is "unlimited" you can just switch it up.
I suggested something to Burst about capping the access to spells in the quest thread me and Caex are in. He likes it and said he'd talked to Thorn about it, not sure if they added it in or not. However I have a suggestion for keeping the number of spells you use by this:
Common: 4x
Uncommon: 3x
Rare: 2x
Mythic: 2x
That way you play more conservatively with the more powerful spells but since your knowledge is "unlimited" you can just switch it up.
I suggested something to Burst about capping the access to spells in the quest thread me and Caex are in. He likes it and said he'd talked to Thorn about it, not sure if they added it in or not. However I have a suggestion for keeping the number of spells you use by this:
Common: 4x
Uncommon: 3x
Rare: 2x
Mythic: 2x
That way you play more conservatively with the more powerful spells but since your knowledge is "unlimited" you can just switch it up.
Does this mean that you can only have 4 commons or that you can only use the same common 4 times or what?
Does this mean that you can only have 4 commons or that you can only use the same common 4 times or what?
That meant 4 kind of commons at your disposal. You can use it as many times as you want as long as you have the mana and the spell does not have any other restrictions. Right?
But I personally think that we shouldn't put limit on how many spells we can have. As long as we have the means to have it, why not?
Does this mean that you can only have 4 commons or that you can only use the same common 4 times or what?
You can only use the same common spell 4 times. After that your spent because the same tactic over and over and over is boring. Especially when you realize that for a red mage having access to unlimited Lightning Bolt and Incinerates is just ridiculous. Also this will be good for players to be creative with their presentation of other spells and on top of that has a nice feel of what this is based on. Basically it keeps the feel of "Infinite knowledge of spells" but instead of only casting that spell once and wishing you had it again, you do but your low on the number of times you can use it.
@Fluffy: You know what? Yeah 1x Mythic makes sense now. I was being lenient.
Ok. Wait. Now we are talking about spells from cards. But do we cast spells like we cast creatures? Based on cards? I thought spells only consist of two: abilities and talents?
Spells from cards may be adopted as talents. And in doing so, WPLs can moderate and give specific restrictions to balance it.
For example: Smite The Monstrous: Pay 3W. Destroy target creature with power 4 or greature. This spell may only be cast once every 3 turn. or This spell may only be cast twice per combat. or This spell may only target Zombie, Werewolf, Skeleton, Mutant.
I don't like that... Zeia's going to want to use Smite the Monstrous whenever she can.
Right but why stick to just Smite the Monstrous when you can send it on a Path to Peace, smite it with a Vengeance, or give it a good Reprisal (which oddly enough is uncommon in later sets but common when it came out. Obviously the latest rarity is what matters though.)
It gets boring doing the same thing over and over, plus think about this: Counterspells. Everyone will take blue just because they'll be able to go straight to counterspelling and when you realize that Counterspell is unlimited? It just becomes mundane.
OK people, reel it in a little. The only actual cards we are using are stuff for conjuration and artifacts. Remember that the abilities that you have the option of choosing for your character do not use actual cards from the game. When it comes to the Talents, yes i agree that you can choose to have an actual card as a usable spell/ability, but at most equal to your level a day, or once a combat, as was stated previously. It shouldnt be stuff that is easily broken, but also shouldnt be stuff that you could do with an ability that is available.
Spells require attack rolls, which I think has become a better solution than to limit the spells arsenal.
Perhaps I should just suggest a rule where spells which are repeatedly cast will modify the attack rolls.
In example: You cast Counterspell this turn and failed/succeeded on the attack roll. Next turn, if you would cast another Counterspell, your opponent gains +X modifier on attack roll. Where X is the number you have cast Counterspell consecutively.
Ok. Wait. Now we are talking about spells from cards. But do we cast spells like we cast creatures? Based on cards? I thought spells only consist of two: abilities and talents?
Talents aren't spells. Talents are special things your character can do. Talents have nothing to do with spells.
Abilities give you access to certain themed spells. Slaying in black mana, for example, gives you access to spells that destroy creatures.
Spells from cards may be adopted as talents. And in doing so, WPLs can moderate and give specific restrictions to balance it.
For example: Smite The Monstrous: Pay 3W. Destroy target creature with power 4 or greature. This spell may only be cast once every 3 turn. or This spell may only be cast twice per combat. or This spell may only target Zombie, Werewolf, Skeleton, Mutant.
I don't think talents that recreate spell effects should even be allowed. If you can already cast Smite the Monsterous, there's no reason to have a talent that lets you duplicate the effect.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Talents aren't spells. Talents are special things your character can do. Talents have nothing to do with spells.
Abilities give you access to certain themed spells. Slaying in black mana, for example, gives you access to spells that destroy creatures.
I don't think talents that recreate spell effects should even be allowed. If you can already cast Smite the Monsterous, there's no reason to have a talent that lets you duplicate the effect.
Ah yes.
Well then I'm with you on the recreation part.
OK people, reel it in a little. The only actual cards we are using are stuff for conjuration and artifacts. Remember that the abilities that you have the option of choosing for your character do not use actual cards from the game.
See we need to clarify how this works though. Like why is it that "Damage" as a red ability doesn't clarify how much damage you do? I just shoot fire/lightning at PC and...what? Do they take a point or do they take 40? Does the amount of mana I pump into it affect how much I'm doing or less? I mean...what do some of these abilities actually do if they damage something or kill something like "Slaying"? I mean sure, combat training makes sense but what about those of us that don't want to use Conjurations or Artifact Creatures?
See we need to clarify how this works though. Like why is it that "Damage" as a red ability doesn't clarify how much damage you do? I just shoot fire/lightning at PC and...what? Do they take a point or do they take 40? Does the amount of mana I pump into it affect how much I'm doing or less? I mean...what do some of these abilities actually do if they damage something or kill something like "Slaying"? I mean sure, combat training makes sense but what about those of us that don't want to use Conjurations or Artifact Creatures?
I think you choose a direct damage spell and cast it at your opponent.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I think any ability relating to a specific plane should only be allowed if a character is either from that plane or has spent a significant amount of time on said plane (maybe, one or two quests worth of time).
And for abilities relating to specific locations, I would definitely suggest making actually visiting that location a prerequisite. How can your character have any kind of memory of Boseiju if he's never been there? This has the benefit of making unique places on planes natural gathering sites for walkers to meet one another and develop a larger group of contacts.
Yeah, that makes sense. We probably should allow characters who have visited the location to learn the ability as well.
I thought up a few more over the weekend. I was thinking ahead to the level 6+ talents.
I split up fluff and mechanics this time. Again, card inspiration is linked.
Time Stop: A magical vortex opens up and violently affects spellcasting, sucking all magical energies into it and affecting space and time as a side effect.
Required Accessible Color(s): Blue Cost: 5UU Speed: Instant Effect: Counter all spells and abilities. Time is slowed to a crawl for 30 seconds for everyone except the spellcaster. Everyone affected is aware that they are slowed. Limit: May only be used X amount of times every 48 hours, where X is 5 less than your level.
Damnation: A deadly vortex opens up and annihilates all conjurations.
Required Accessible Color(s): Black and/or White Cost: Empty your mana pool. Mana regeneration speed doubles during your next 2 turns. Speed: Sorcery Effect: Destroy all conjurations. Limit: May only be used X amount of times every 24 hours, where X is 4 less than your level. Cannot be gained at level 3.
EDIT: Yeah, I am a little slow in this discussion. Shouldn't we have some serious repercussions for trying to cast a huge spell (like 20-point damage spells)? A negative modifier on the attack roll maybe. And if the attack roll fails, you take five points, or maybe empty half your mana pool. Reasoning: mana burn which should be introduced into this game. The planeswalker did not have the ability, experience, or talent to wield the spell and thus attempted to let loose pure, undirected mana which damaged the closest thing to it, the spellcaster.
I suggested something to Burst about capping the access to spells in the quest thread me and Caex are in. He likes it and said he'd talked to Thorn about it, not sure if they added it in or not. However I have a suggestion for keeping the number of spells you use by this:
Common: 4x
Uncommon: 3x
Rare: 2x
Mythic: 2x
That way you play more conservatively with the more powerful spells but since your knowledge is "unlimited" you can just switch it up.
Similar to silence_dais, but my suggestions is to make the spells apply the conjuration rules. The cap is put on the number of spells a player can have, but not on spells a player can cast in battle. So players will also be required to list the spells they can cast with their respective abilities.
Players will still need to have Healing and Counterspelling to have Absorb.
The caps shall be similar to what silence_dais proposed. For each ability, a player may have 4 Common spells on Learned, 3 Uncommon spells on Experienced, and 2 Rare and 1 Mythic spells on Mastered. Multi-colored spells or spells requiring multiple abilities shall be included within the limit of one of the required abilities.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Similar to silence_dais, but my suggestions is to make the spells apply the conjuration rules. The cap is put on the number of spells a player can have, but not on spells a player can cast in battle. So players will also be required to list the spells they can cast with their respective abilities.
Players will still need to have Healing and Counterspelling to have Absorb.
I wasn't exactly suggesting that we just cap on how many spells you can use I was suggesting we cap on how many of the same exact spell you use. What I had suggested to Burst during my quest thread was this:
Learned: You know all common and uncommon spells from your plane and the core sets. You know all common spells from other planes.
Experienced: You know all common, uncommon, and rare spells from your plane and the core sets. You know all common and uncommon spells from other planes.
Mastered: You know all common, uncommon, rare, and mythic spells from all planes and core sets.
However I do like your suggestion on how to make certain spells more balanced like that. So if someone tries to use Wrecking Ball they need to have points in both slaying and artifact destruction. I like that a lot. It helps show case what you know and at the same time rewards players for going further into other color abilities.
The caps shall be similar to what silence_dais proposed. For each ability, a player may have 4 Common spells on Learned, 3 Uncommon spells on Experienced, and 2 Rare and 1 Mythic spells on Mastered. Multi-colored spells or spells requiring multiple abilities shall be included within the limit of one of the required abilities.
See now it's starting to get close to the MTG RPG which is something we want to avoid. Whats the point in being a planeswalker if your knowledge is limited? Your just a mage with the abilty to teleport to a new world if you do it like that.
I blame myself for not wording it properly. ><
Also Talent suggestion:
Switching Up: Once every combat you may forgo casting a sorcery for another instant ability or forgo an instant for another sorcery ability.
@Caex
Woot yeah I wasn't combing the thread completely. (First and last :P)
Yep our suggestions are similar and I think we should just solidify it and set it.
Things we should agree on:
Spells have limit and players should list what spells they have.
Spells' limits are set according to the player's abilities. (i.e. Burn Trail is subject to your Damage ability)
Whether drawing system could work with these limits.
Now, about powerful spells right at the start of battle. I still think that the roll system takes a good care of that. There's penalty to spells costing 9 or more mana. And there's also initiative bonus/penalty on ambush.
However, I realize there are spells which do not require attack rolls. So I'm suggesting more variable.
At the first turn-cycle of every battle, all spells costing 6 or more mana cannot be cast. At the second turn-cycle, all spells costing 9 or more mana can be cast. At the third and following turn-cycles, all spells can be cast. (Certain talents might bypass this)
Spells have limit and players should list what spells they have.
I agree that spells should have a limit, but I don't agree that players should list what spells they know. Again the whole point to being a Planeswalker is that your pretty much Omnipotent. However I'm willing to compromise on this:
Certain abilities will allow you access to more spells. A good example is what you suggested with Healing and Counterspelling being required to use a spell like Absorb as this can help drastically cut the list of spells since some are color matters or are mulitcolor.
Spells' limits are set according to the player's abilities. (i.e. Burn Trail is subject to your Damage ability)
Ehhhh I'm not understanding this. So basically I can or can't do something like Burn Trailunless I have enough points in my Damage ability? Or are you saying I can't use the Retrace ability unless i learn Retrace?
Whether drawing system could work with these limits.
I think the fact you just start with a set mana pool works perfectly. You have to play it smart and not just fly off the handle by casting big spells that may not even do much in the first place. Again this is mostly do to the fact that I believe that since Planeswalkers are supposed to be demigods, something as silly as concentrating on drawing mana is a bit much....unless its when they arrive on a new plane. How about this:
You have a mana pool only on planes that you have traveled to. So basically if you are on a new plane, you have to slowly connect with that planes mana by drawing on it. Basically you start at half of your mana pool but slowly regain the rest as you travel across the plane. So about an hour or so (in story, not an hour's worth of posts) and you have your full mana.
Now, about powerful spells right at the start of battle. I still think that the roll system takes a good care of that. There's penalty to spells costing 9 or more mana. And there's also initiative bonus/penalty on ambush.
However, I realize there are spells which do not require attack rolls. So I'm suggesting more variable.
At the first turn-cycle of every battle, all spells costing 6 or more mana cannot be cast. At the second turn-cycle, all spells costing 9 or more mana can be cast. At the third and following turn-cycles, all spells can be cast. (Certain talents might bypass this)
I....actually like this idea. Again a good way to balance combat and a good way to encourage players to think smart with what they do. Plus helps pace combat which I think is a good thing.
I suggested something to Burst about capping the access to spells in the quest thread me and Caex are in. He likes it and said he'd talked to Thorn about it, not sure if they added it in or not. However I have a suggestion for keeping the number of spells you use by this:
Common: 4x
Uncommon: 3x
Rare: 2x
Mythic: 2x
That way you play more conservatively with the more powerful spells but since your knowledge is "unlimited" you can just switch it up.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Maybe 1 mythic.
sig by DarkNightCavalier
Avatar by perv90210.
Currently Running
Cryffyl
Does this mean that you can only have 4 commons or that you can only use the same common 4 times or what?
That meant 4 kind of commons at your disposal. You can use it as many times as you want as long as you have the mana and the spell does not have any other restrictions. Right?
But I personally think that we shouldn't put limit on how many spells we can have. As long as we have the means to have it, why not?
You can only use the same common spell 4 times. After that your spent because the same tactic over and over and over is boring. Especially when you realize that for a red mage having access to unlimited Lightning Bolt and Incinerates is just ridiculous. Also this will be good for players to be creative with their presentation of other spells and on top of that has a nice feel of what this is based on. Basically it keeps the feel of "Infinite knowledge of spells" but instead of only casting that spell once and wishing you had it again, you do but your low on the number of times you can use it.
@Fluffy: You know what? Yeah 1x Mythic makes sense now. I was being lenient.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Spells from cards may be adopted as talents. And in doing so, WPLs can moderate and give specific restrictions to balance it.
For example: Smite The Monstrous: Pay 3W. Destroy target creature with power 4 or greature. This spell may only be cast once every 3 turn. or This spell may only be cast twice per combat. or This spell may only target Zombie, Werewolf, Skeleton, Mutant.
Right but why stick to just Smite the Monstrous when you can send it on a Path to Peace, smite it with a Vengeance, or give it a good Reprisal (which oddly enough is uncommon in later sets but common when it came out. Obviously the latest rarity is what matters though.)
It gets boring doing the same thing over and over, plus think about this: Counterspells. Everyone will take blue just because they'll be able to go straight to counterspelling and when you realize that Counterspell is unlimited? It just becomes mundane.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
Perhaps I should just suggest a rule where spells which are repeatedly cast will modify the attack rolls.
In example: You cast Counterspell this turn and failed/succeeded on the attack roll. Next turn, if you would cast another Counterspell, your opponent gains +X modifier on attack roll. Where X is the number you have cast Counterspell consecutively.
Talents aren't spells. Talents are special things your character can do. Talents have nothing to do with spells.
Abilities give you access to certain themed spells. Slaying in black mana, for example, gives you access to spells that destroy creatures.
I don't think talents that recreate spell effects should even be allowed. If you can already cast Smite the Monsterous, there's no reason to have a talent that lets you duplicate the effect.
{Magic: The RPG}
Ah yes.
Well then I'm with you on the recreation part.
See we need to clarify how this works though. Like why is it that "Damage" as a red ability doesn't clarify how much damage you do? I just shoot fire/lightning at PC and...what? Do they take a point or do they take 40? Does the amount of mana I pump into it affect how much I'm doing or less? I mean...what do some of these abilities actually do if they damage something or kill something like "Slaying"? I mean sure, combat training makes sense but what about those of us that don't want to use Conjurations or Artifact Creatures?
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
I think you choose a direct damage spell and cast it at your opponent.
sig by DarkNightCavalier
Avatar by perv90210.
Currently Running
Cryffyl
How do we keep it balanced though so that no one just takes the cheapest but strongest damage spells right off the bat to end a combat?
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
I'm not sure how to stop everyone from choosing the most powerful spells and abilities over everything else.
{Magic: The RPG}
Yeah, that makes sense. We probably should allow characters who have visited the location to learn the ability as well.
I thought up a few more over the weekend. I was thinking ahead to the level 6+ talents.
I split up fluff and mechanics this time. Again, card inspiration is linked.
Required Accessible Color(s): Blue
Cost: 5UU
Speed: Instant
Effect: Counter all spells and abilities. Time is slowed to a crawl for 30 seconds for everyone except the spellcaster. Everyone affected is aware that they are slowed.
Limit: May only be used X amount of times every 48 hours, where X is 5 less than your level.
Required Accessible Color(s): Black and/or White
Cost: Empty your mana pool. Mana regeneration speed doubles during your next 2 turns.
Speed: Sorcery
Effect: Destroy all conjurations.
Limit: May only be used X amount of times every 24 hours, where X is 4 less than your level. Cannot be gained at level 3.
EDIT: Yeah, I am a little slow in this discussion. Shouldn't we have some serious repercussions for trying to cast a huge spell (like 20-point damage spells)? A negative modifier on the attack roll maybe. And if the attack roll fails, you take five points, or maybe empty half your mana pool. Reasoning: mana burn which should be introduced into this game. The planeswalker did not have the ability, experience, or talent to wield the spell and thus attempted to let loose pure, undirected mana which damaged the closest thing to it, the spellcaster.
What were your suggestions? Maybe you could link or repost it on the revamped rules thread so other players who agree can support.
Here's what I propose:
Similar to silence_dais, but my suggestions is to make the spells apply the conjuration rules. The cap is put on the number of spells a player can have, but not on spells a player can cast in battle. So players will also be required to list the spells they can cast with their respective abilities.
Players will still need to have Healing and Counterspelling to have Absorb.
The caps shall be similar to what silence_dais proposed. For each ability, a player may have 4 Common spells on Learned, 3 Uncommon spells on Experienced, and 2 Rare and 1 Mythic spells on Mastered. Multi-colored spells or spells requiring multiple abilities shall be included within the limit of one of the required abilities.
Starts with post #260, and I made several other posts after that with more rules suggestions.
{Magic: The RPG}
I wasn't exactly suggesting that we just cap on how many spells you can use I was suggesting we cap on how many of the same exact spell you use. What I had suggested to Burst during my quest thread was this:
Learned: You know all common and uncommon spells from your plane and the core sets. You know all common spells from other planes.
Experienced: You know all common, uncommon, and rare spells from your plane and the core sets. You know all common and uncommon spells from other planes.
Mastered: You know all common, uncommon, rare, and mythic spells from all planes and core sets.
However I do like your suggestion on how to make certain spells more balanced like that. So if someone tries to use Wrecking Ball they need to have points in both slaying and artifact destruction. I like that a lot. It helps show case what you know and at the same time rewards players for going further into other color abilities.
See now it's starting to get close to the MTG RPG which is something we want to avoid. Whats the point in being a planeswalker if your knowledge is limited? Your just a mage with the abilty to teleport to a new world if you do it like that.
I blame myself for not wording it properly. ><
Also Talent suggestion:
Switching Up: Once every combat you may forgo casting a sorcery for another instant ability or forgo an instant for another sorcery ability.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
I think you have to have been to the plane where that spell originated.
sig by DarkNightCavalier
Avatar by perv90210.
Currently Running
Cryffyl
Yeah but then you have to clarify that exactly. Like have you spent an entire year on that plane or so?
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Woot yeah I wasn't combing the thread completely. (First and last :P)
Yep our suggestions are similar and I think we should just solidify it and set it.
Things we should agree on:
Now, about powerful spells right at the start of battle. I still think that the roll system takes a good care of that. There's penalty to spells costing 9 or more mana. And there's also initiative bonus/penalty on ambush.
However, I realize there are spells which do not require attack rolls. So I'm suggesting more variable.
At the first turn-cycle of every battle, all spells costing 6 or more mana cannot be cast. At the second turn-cycle, all spells costing 9 or more mana can be cast. At the third and following turn-cycles, all spells can be cast. (Certain talents might bypass this)
I agree that spells should have a limit, but I don't agree that players should list what spells they know. Again the whole point to being a Planeswalker is that your pretty much Omnipotent. However I'm willing to compromise on this:
Certain abilities will allow you access to more spells. A good example is what you suggested with Healing and Counterspelling being required to use a spell like Absorb as this can help drastically cut the list of spells since some are color matters or are mulitcolor.
Ehhhh I'm not understanding this. So basically I can or can't do something like Burn Trailunless I have enough points in my Damage ability? Or are you saying I can't use the Retrace ability unless i learn Retrace?
I think the fact you just start with a set mana pool works perfectly. You have to play it smart and not just fly off the handle by casting big spells that may not even do much in the first place. Again this is mostly do to the fact that I believe that since Planeswalkers are supposed to be demigods, something as silly as concentrating on drawing mana is a bit much....unless its when they arrive on a new plane. How about this:
You have a mana pool only on planes that you have traveled to. So basically if you are on a new plane, you have to slowly connect with that planes mana by drawing on it. Basically you start at half of your mana pool but slowly regain the rest as you travel across the plane. So about an hour or so (in story, not an hour's worth of posts) and you have your full mana.
I....actually like this idea. Again a good way to balance combat and a good way to encourage players to think smart with what they do. Plus helps pace combat which I think is a good thing.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.