Well, I'm still sort of flailing here, as I'm not sure what sort of character I should play and/or what the party still needs. I would kind of like to play either a melee-oriented dragon disciple or some form of pyrokineticist, either of which would be based around weapons rather than magic. However, with the exclusion of the martial adept classes, is a pure melee type--or even a pure archer--even going to be viable or useful?
I've never mucked about above level ten before. Would anyone mind terribly helping me with this?
A +5 LA race, and then you need to stack at least +1 worth of templates on top of that? Have fun.
BTW, for those who don't have the Anauroch, Empire of Shade adventure, where the 3.5 sharn race is described, someone on wizards board gave their stats here
11/12 level casting in three classes, three standard actions a turn... we'll see who is having fun
I'm curious as to how you are advancing both favored soul and sorceror casting at once, when mystic theurge and the like have a blanket ban in gestalt.
Nope, it's a subjective ban. I have to await a ruling from Amadi on it.
Both the casting is on the same side of the gestalt, so on principle it shouldn't be banned, as is was achieved like a normal character would be able to, instead of the actual reason to ban dual-progression prestige classes, that one could take a casting class on each side, then dual-progression on one side while freeing up the other side. That should be banned. Advancing only one side of a gestalt (my Sorcerer/Favoured soul SLAs) shouldn't be. Yeah, I'm running 8 levels of racial HD and LA to have it, it shouldn't be further penalized.
8 levels of HD/LA to get: Str +8, Dex +10, Con +10, Int +8, Wis +8, Cha +10, 3 standard actions and a move action per round (or full-round + standard, or full-round + move), regeneration and 6th level casting in two classes. And whatever your +1 template gives. Why not just take 7 sorcerer levels on the other gestalt side and advance favored soul through Loremaster or Arcane Trickster?
Because I want to look like a three-headed orca freak thing? =( The spellcasting just comes as a natural choice from it; I was very indecisive, so I just decided to pick a race that would demand at least half of my gestalt-role-choice. Now I just have to choose moar spells or melee prowess.
The suggestion I made was in lieu of taking, say, cleric casting on top. It would start play at 11th level favored soul and 13th level sorcerer casting. Admittedly, it only has 6 free levels, but that should still be workable, no?
The thing is, that's a workaround for something that shouldn't be banned in the first place.
Guys. I think you're kind of forgetting that we have players here that have not played games above level 10 before, or that haven't played gestalt ever before. I kind of don't want to take out deities and demigods just to challenge you two. Or make your mask -20 to all stats.
Technically, I agree. Dual-progress shouldn't be banned, (EDIT: Assuming you level just one side with it.) as per what the rules are trying to do. Still, I am trying to have a campaign here where everyone actually fulfills some role other than "hold them down 'till Gandalf gets back".
For reference, this is Dalkon's character sheet. I understand that you will probably make your characters somewhat stronger, if only on accident, but try to make sure that his character won't be completely outshadowed in every respect.
I am all for ridiculous minmaxing, but not in a campaign where I believe half of the players don't know how hulking hurlers work.
If you decide to not play nice, I can, and will, invoke wrath of ten thousand squirrels upon you. Did I say squirrels? I meant Skiurids. You don't want to mess with the Skiurids.
I'm not outright prohibiting the theurge used in that fashion. I am, however, asking you to consider the other players. I know that I might not have the historically best record for this, but still...
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Guys. I think you're kind of forgetting that we have players here that have not played games above level 10 before, or that haven't played gestalt ever before. I kind of don't want to take out deities and demigods just to challenge you two. Or make your mask -20 to all stats.
Technically, I agree. Dual-progress shouldn't be banned, as per what the rules are trying to do. Still, I am trying to have a campaign here where everyone actually fulfills some role other than "hold them down 'till Gandalf gets back".
For reference, this is Dalkon's character sheet. I understand that you will probably make your characters somewhat stronger, if only on accident, but try to make sure that his character won't be completely outshadowed in every respect.
I am all for ridiculous minmaxing, but not in a campaign where I believe half of the players don't know how hulking hurlers work.
If you decide to not play nice, I can, and will, invoke wrath of ten thousand squirrels upon you. Did I say squirrels? I meant Skiurids. You don't want to mess with the Skiurids.
I'm not outright prohibiting the theurge used in that fashion. I am, however, asking you to consider the other players. I know that I might not have the historically best record for this, but still...
That's completely reasonable. I'm not going to be a Sharn anymore, because I don't trust myself. =/
So I was working on my character, and I had a question about how the pyrokineticist Weapon Afire ability works.
As written, it appears that a pyrokineticist requires a move-equivalent action to 'ignite' each unit of ammunition he or she wants to use. Is this correct, or can the pyro just ignite her whole quiver and shoot flaming arrows until she runs out?
So I was working on my character, and I had a question about how the pyrokineticist Weapon Afire ability works.
As written, it appears that a pyrokineticist requires a move-equivalent action to 'ignite' each unit of ammunition he or she wants to use. Is this correct, or can the pyro just ignite her whole quiver and shoot flaming arrows until she runs out?
igniting the whole quiver may mean that your quiver is destroyed by fire?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I will just throw dispels at you. I mean, that's the official counter to DMM. (What's the name of that dispel spell that steals the buff for yourself, again..?)
As written, it appears that a pyrokineticist requires a move-equivalent action to 'ignite' each unit of ammunition he or she wants to use. Is this correct, or can the pyro just ignite her whole quiver and shoot flaming arrows until she runs out?
It is correct. You can, however, ignite your bow and all arrows fired from it will deal the bonus damage. Don't ask how this makes sense, but that's how it works, as per rules. You can, in addition, ignite an arrow, too. Then it'll deal double the fire damage. This will take a move action for every shot, though.
Further, you can combine Hand Afire and Weapon Afire if you have improved unarmed strike, dealing double the damage. This is because your hand is treated both as a manufactored and natural weapon. And you can use Weapon Afire with your Fire Lash. So it's a burning whip made out of fire.
Also, if you want to play kineticist of another element, I am mostly fine with it. Cryokineticist is in some supplement anyway, so it's not a stretch, and it's suggested in psionics handbook. No sonic, though, since sonic is OP. Because then you break each and every item. Ever.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
can't we just throw a universal ban on races that grant overall bonuses that give you ability scores of 30+ prior to magic items being included?
No race is giving me 30+ strength. It's a lot of small things giving me bonuses. A +4 here and a +4 there add up.
I'm sorry, I just took the logical progressions in building my character. I'm a melee, so I buff, so I persist buffs.
People are overestimating the power of melee tanks. It's like when DMs ban Tome of Battle but not 9th level spells on principle, because they naively think it's 'too OP.'
I'll drop the bloody DMM and do something else.
Maybe I just need my players to show up to my game thread >=(
Don't stack templates on base creatures for Tauric, please. I mean, Lesser Aasimar / Lion is fine, but Magebred Lion is probably pushing it, because it's effectively free bonus.
EDIT: Further, how would you even be a hybrid of a magebred creature. I doubt there is a crazy wizard somewhere making his own race of magebred tauric creatures, and you don't get born from an aasimar having sex with a lion. You pretty clearly have parents somewhere.
EDITEDIT: Do you want to make spreadhseets or do we use fractional BaB/Saves? It would be a lot easier for everyone.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
EDIT: Further, how would you even be a hybrid of a magebred creature. I doubt there is a crazy wizard somewhere making his own race of magebred tauric creatures, and you don't get born from an aasimar having sex with a lion. You pretty clearly have parents somewhere.
EDITEDIT: Do you want to make spreadhseets or do we use fractional BaB/Saves? It would be a lot easier for everyone.
I don't know, I just saw it was an inherited template (for some unknown reason). I don't even know how Tauric creatures come about in the firstplace. Probably some mage fused some Lesser Aasimar with some of his Magebred Lions and created a new race. Meh.
I calculated my saves fractally, adding a +2 for new classes taken (so I got a +2 from taking the first fighter level) which is closest to RAI as I figured.
For the others, the formula for fractal BAB is this:
When leveling up, if it is a good save, add 1/2 (3/6), if it is a bad save, add 1/3 (2/6). Always round down your final number. If you enter a new class, add the requisite +2 save bonus to your good save (and remember to still add the 1/2 for a good save for that level).
A god would be more probable origin. For a wizard to create his own race, he'd have to be at least level 40 or so (Or hugely minmaxed.). In D&D, there are more gods than wizards of that level anyway. (There is very little difference between them, though. I mean lvl40 wizards and gods, that is.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I have revised my character a little bit (added the Spellwarped template from Monster Manual III onto the character) so that it is a bit more on par with the characters of Halinn and Talore...
It is correct. You can, however, ignite your bow and all arrows fired from it will deal the bonus damage. Don't ask how this makes sense, but that's how it works, as per rules. You can, in addition, ignite an arrow, too. Then it'll deal double the fire damage. This will take a move action for every shot, though.
Further, you can combine Hand Afire and Weapon Afire if you have improved unarmed strike, dealing double the damage. This is because your hand is treated both as a manufactored and natural weapon. And you can use Weapon Afire with your Fire Lash. So it's a burning whip made out of fire.
Also, if you want to play kineticist of another element, I am mostly fine with it. Cryokineticist is in some supplement anyway, so it's not a stretch, and it's suggested in psionics handbook. No sonic, though, since sonic is OP. Because then you break each and every item. Ever.
I noticed one more thing about the Hand Afire and Weapon Afire abilities--they don't actually say you can have only one 'afire' item at a time. Does this mean that, if I had a character with improved unarmed strike, using four move actions I could set both hands afire with each ability?
+8d6 damage per attack seems like something I might want to stay on par with everyone else in this campaign -.-
One last thing: How much do you care about alignment restrictions? Because the monk and the pyro are explicitly forbidden to go together in the rules (lawful and chaotic), which is....frustrating.
Amadi, you know better than that. Level 21, just got epic spellcasting. Solar gating to reduce DC to 0 for progressively stronger spells.
Read the "minmaxed" bit.
@Nevinnyrral: Well, you can set them both on fire, but it doesn't do anything. You're not hitting with both your fists at the same time, just the same way that a guy dualwielding isn't hitting with both weapons on the same attack.
Either way, since you can qualify to Pyro by level 5, you get Greater Weapon Afire anyway (8th level pyrokineticist), so you will be dealing 8d6 damage on each attack.
EDIT: It is reasonable enough to allow alignment freedoms, in my experience. It might be more natural with a cryokineticist (cold) rather than fire, as cold naturally forms more structured stuff, such as snowflakes, and is therefore more "lawful". Either way, as long as you RP it well, I am certain that Lawful Pyrokineticist would work, too.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I was actually considering going for Electrokineticist until I looked back at Dalkon's spell list. It wouldn't really do to have most of the party dealing the same type of elemental damage.
When I asked about the alignment, I was thinking about a crazed chaos monk, but upon reflection, the schizophrenic lawful pyro seems more interesting. I think I might even give the character a couple of barbarian levels too (monks really, really want Uncanny Dodge, I think).
I guess that makes for one more question: do we take XP penalties for multiclassing? I know I can probably favored-class out of those, but I need to know before I choose my race.
I have five fire spells in my spell book, and 2 Lightning Spells in my spell book. I have 1 Cold Spell, 1 Sonic Spell, and 1 Radiant Spell. None of these are counting the elemental zero level Cantrip spells.
In otherwords I have far more Fire Spells at my disposal than I do any other element... It just happens that I have more potent Lightning Spells and tend to use Empower Spell coupled with said Lightning Spells instead of my fire spells.
Just deciding what I want on the other half, be it melee classes, or bard, or cleric.
I've never mucked about above level ten before. Would anyone mind terribly helping me with this?
11/12 level casting in three classes, three standard actions a turn... we'll see who is having fun
Moving along nicely.
Nope, it's a subjective ban. I have to await a ruling from Amadi on it.
Both the casting is on the same side of the gestalt, so on principle it shouldn't be banned, as is was achieved like a normal character would be able to, instead of the actual reason to ban dual-progression prestige classes, that one could take a casting class on each side, then dual-progression on one side while freeing up the other side. That should be banned. Advancing only one side of a gestalt (my Sorcerer/Favoured soul SLAs) shouldn't be. Yeah, I'm running 8 levels of racial HD and LA to have it, it shouldn't be further penalized.
Because I want to look like a three-headed orca freak thing? =( The spellcasting just comes as a natural choice from it; I was very indecisive, so I just decided to pick a race that would demand at least half of my gestalt-role-choice. Now I just have to choose moar spells or melee prowess.
The thing is, that's a workaround for something that shouldn't be banned in the first place.
Technically, I agree. Dual-progress shouldn't be banned, (EDIT: Assuming you level just one side with it.) as per what the rules are trying to do. Still, I am trying to have a campaign here where everyone actually fulfills some role other than "hold them down 'till Gandalf gets back".
For reference, this is Dalkon's character sheet. I understand that you will probably make your characters somewhat stronger, if only on accident, but try to make sure that his character won't be completely outshadowed in every respect.
I am all for ridiculous minmaxing, but not in a campaign where I believe half of the players don't know how hulking hurlers work.
If you decide to not play nice, I can, and will, invoke wrath of ten thousand squirrels upon you. Did I say squirrels? I meant Skiurids. You don't want to mess with the Skiurids.
I'm not outright prohibiting the theurge used in that fashion. I am, however, asking you to consider the other players. I know that I might not have the historically best record for this, but still...
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
That's completely reasonable. I'm not going to be a Sharn anymore, because I don't trust myself. =/
Back to the drawing board.
EDIT: Half-Dragon Feral Tauric (Lesser Aasimar/Magebred Lion)(6HD+3LA)/Fighter 4||Cleric 13
Ugh this is difficult to calculate, and it's coming out stronger than I expected.
As written, it appears that a pyrokineticist requires a move-equivalent action to 'ignite' each unit of ammunition he or she wants to use. Is this correct, or can the pyro just ignite her whole quiver and shoot flaming arrows until she runs out?
igniting the whole quiver may mean that your quiver is destroyed by fire?
the quiver isn't exactly the weapon nor is it exactly the user...
It isn't done, but here it is so far.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=258976
I do enjoy 40 strength and 7+ attacks on a charge; with full cleric casting.
It is correct. You can, however, ignite your bow and all arrows fired from it will deal the bonus damage. Don't ask how this makes sense, but that's how it works, as per rules. You can, in addition, ignite an arrow, too. Then it'll deal double the fire damage. This will take a move action for every shot, though.
Further, you can combine Hand Afire and Weapon Afire if you have improved unarmed strike, dealing double the damage. This is because your hand is treated both as a manufactored and natural weapon. And you can use Weapon Afire with your Fire Lash. So it's a burning whip made out of fire.
Also, if you want to play kineticist of another element, I am mostly fine with it. Cryokineticist is in some supplement anyway, so it's not a stretch, and it's suggested in psionics handbook. No sonic, though, since sonic is OP. Because then you break each and every item. Ever.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
No race is giving me 30+ strength. It's a lot of small things giving me bonuses. A +4 here and a +4 there add up.
I'm sorry, I just took the logical progressions in building my character. I'm a melee, so I buff, so I persist buffs.
People are overestimating the power of melee tanks. It's like when DMs ban Tome of Battle but not 9th level spells on principle, because they naively think it's 'too OP.'
I'll drop the bloody DMM and do something else.
Maybe I just need my players to show up to my game thread >=(
EDIT: Removing Magebred next chance I get
EDIT: Further, how would you even be a hybrid of a magebred creature. I doubt there is a crazy wizard somewhere making his own race of magebred tauric creatures, and you don't get born from an aasimar having sex with a lion. You pretty clearly have parents somewhere.
EDITEDIT: Do you want to make spreadhseets or do we use fractional BaB/Saves? It would be a lot easier for everyone.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I don't know, I just saw it was an inherited template (for some unknown reason). I don't even know how Tauric creatures come about in the firstplace. Probably some mage fused some Lesser Aasimar with some of his Magebred Lions and created a new race. Meh.
I calculated my saves fractally, adding a +2 for new classes taken (so I got a +2 from taking the first fighter level) which is closest to RAI as I figured.
For the others, the formula for fractal BAB is this:
When leveling up, if it is a good save, add 1/2 (3/6), if it is a bad save, add 1/3 (2/6). Always round down your final number. If you enter a new class, add the requisite +2 save bonus to your good save (and remember to still add the 1/2 for a good save for that level).
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Updated Sheet here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=258084
+8d6 damage per attack seems like something I might want to stay on par with everyone else in this campaign -.-
One last thing: How much do you care about alignment restrictions? Because the monk and the pyro are explicitly forbidden to go together in the rules (lawful and chaotic), which is....frustrating.
Read the "minmaxed" bit.
@Nevinnyrral: Well, you can set them both on fire, but it doesn't do anything. You're not hitting with both your fists at the same time, just the same way that a guy dualwielding isn't hitting with both weapons on the same attack.
Either way, since you can qualify to Pyro by level 5, you get Greater Weapon Afire anyway (8th level pyrokineticist), so you will be dealing 8d6 damage on each attack.
EDIT: It is reasonable enough to allow alignment freedoms, in my experience. It might be more natural with a cryokineticist (cold) rather than fire, as cold naturally forms more structured stuff, such as snowflakes, and is therefore more "lawful". Either way, as long as you RP it well, I am certain that Lawful Pyrokineticist would work, too.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
When I asked about the alignment, I was thinking about a crazed chaos monk, but upon reflection, the schizophrenic lawful pyro seems more interesting. I think I might even give the character a couple of barbarian levels too (monks really, really want Uncanny Dodge, I think).
I guess that makes for one more question: do we take XP penalties for multiclassing? I know I can probably favored-class out of those, but I need to know before I choose my race.
In otherwords I have far more Fire Spells at my disposal than I do any other element... It just happens that I have more potent Lightning Spells and tend to use Empower Spell coupled with said Lightning Spells instead of my fire spells.
Up next is equipment, name, background, and prepared spells, then it's done!
EDIT: What do I count as for determining armour price? I am large, but do I count as non-humanoid for armor, though I have a humanoid top half?