60k to add +2 to an item that already has a bonus, 240k to add +4 and 540k to add +6. Seems like a fair start if we're going to get the mad loot you've historically given us
ASA has said the coffers will be running dry as far as new loot is concerned... perhaps Evil is undergoing layoffs
At best we should expect 3 million in loot per PC (damn this horrible economic times :p)
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Speaking of loot, did you ever destroy that High Priestess's phylactery? Because you might want to do that. You still have like 7 kilograms of gold after you MD it.
Since you no longer have your previous wealth you might get better boons but I'll have to carefully decide your treasure. :S
My original post on the matter was without respect to even knowing standard pricing of such bonuses. lol
So it's actually multiplying it by 4. HOPEFULLY that will be enough of an increase. :x
Actually, the few times I've seen non-enhancement bonuses and worked out the formula, I've come to the conclusion that the formula used was bonus x bonus x 2000 for gp.
So you're multiplying it by five.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
A good idea is to also decide at how high a percentage we can sell the stuff at, and tailor some items to us.
I really like this idea. I would much rather have some of the items be specially designed to fit one of the characters in the party with some flavor attached and have the other ones sell at a lower value. If you do that consistently (and for different PCs), it makes for a much more interesting game.
Also, you get to decide our items which makes it more difficult for us to wreck things by getting silly items.
So did you forge your items for a discounted price? Because a quick glance at your sheet shows that you went over 1.2 million.
Your armor, weapons, and belt alone go over 500,000.
Throw in 360,000 for one of the ability boosting items, and... it looks like another 720,000 for the other one.
That's well over 1.2 million. Forging is the only option I can think of that would allow you to do that.
Assuming that you indeed forged those items, what formula did you use to calculate the cost and exp? I'm assuming that you didn't forge any of them yourself, since you don't have the relevant feats or spellcasting ability. I'm considering using that method for Michael, since there are a few items I need for him that I can't afford but I don't know the accepted formula.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Because, according to a page near or around 283 in the DMG (I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't actually tell you the exact page number), the base magical price of the items (like the enhancements on weapons and armor, but not the cost of the masterwork armor and weapons themselves) can be adjusted down to 70% of the base price if you limit the item by race, alignment or class. It can also be reduced to 90% of the base price if you limit the item by requiring the wielder to have ranks in a skill.
For example, a Ring of Protection +5 costs a base 50,000 gp.
A Ring of Protection +5 that can only be used by a Halfling (or a Good Character or a Sorcerer) would cost 35,000
A Ring of Protection +5 that required the bearer to have ranks in Tumble would cost 45,000 GP
A Ring of Protection +5 that can only be used by a Good-aligned Halfling Sorcerer with ranks in Tumble would cost 15,435 gp, which happens to be roughly 31% of the item's base price.
Now, taking a magical suit of armor, let's say a +5 Heavy Fortification suit of Elven Chain.
Elven Chain (nonmagical Mithral Chainmail) costs 4150 gp.
The cost of the magical enhancements (+5 Heavy Fortification) costs 100,000 gp.
A suit of +5 Heavy Fortification Elven Chain only useable by an Evil Drow Swordsage with ranks in Concentration would cost 35020 gp (the price of the enhancements can be adjusted, the price of the actual nonmagical item--the mithral suit--cannot be).
As an aside, now you see why I say (and have said before on the original Flames of War campaign thread) that you cannot ignore the cost of a masterwork sword or a suit of armor when you're calculating magical item costs.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
Oh, I know where the error came from, it's 282 in the hard copy and it's 283 on the PDF, which counts the cover as page 1.
I have explained what I did, and according to conversations I've had with Avatar of Kokusho, they should stack.
If he decides that they shouldn't then I will obviously need to work a bit more on my character, but this isn't the first time I've done this--I did it in Flames of War I, Storm Front, Godslayer, and any other game where I've had some money to start the game with.
Of course, it is ASA's prerogative as DM to deny such things.
Also, since it doesn't actually change the effects of the item or use custom effects that might not exist in one sourcebook or the other, I'd even argue that limiting such a thing as a Ring of Protection +5 doesn't make it a custom item.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
If ways to make items cheaper are allowed, prepare that I do something akin to the following:
Crafting it yourself instead of buying it. 50%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill. 90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment. 70%
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat 90%
Extraordinary Artisan feat 75%
Magical Artisan 75%
Binding a Colossal Elemental (Preferably an elemental whale) to it. 80%
Demon Mastery and Extract Demonic Essence ( 10% chance of the item having a curse) 50%
Seven Ravens Clan combined with the Guildmaster feat and Favored in Guild. 50%
Grand total percentage of the gp that must be payed. 3.189375 %
This would multiply my wealth by ~3100%, making it ~38 million. I pay 4% of that in XP (~1.5 million.), follow with me, however.
Favored in Guild and several Wizard's Circles in Sharn 90%
Legendary Artisan 75%
Magical Artisan 75%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill. 90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment. 70% This Obelisk 80%
And I *only* have to pay 384.000 XP. Now, that might seem a lot, but instead of buying off LA, I already get 9,000+15.000+18,000 = 42,000. Add to that the Item Familiar (That I can protect with this amount of gold..) for 29,800. Even without going beyond to realms of TO, I could use 71,800, ~19% of the whole deal. I could therefore, *only* multiply ~19% of my wealth, making this whole thing into..
8.952.000. Yes, that's almost 9 million. Fully RAI & RAW, too. (And that is assuming I buy rest of my items, instead of buying experience and using it to craft, or instead of buying specifically crafted items.)
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
8.952.000. Yes, that's almost 9 million. Fully RAI & RAW, too. (And that is assuming I buy rest of my items, instead of buying experience and using it to craft, or instead of buying specifically crafted items.)
You are incorrect sir. That may be fully RAW, but it's nowhere close to RAI. Those rules were not intended to be stacked together, and they were probably intended to be used during the game (not during character creation beforehand).
But seriously, your incessant munchkining gets really annoying. Can you please look at the rest of the characters and try to make something of comparable power. Better yet, make it something that feels like a character with some numbers added because you'll need them for fighting things. So far every character I've seen you make feels like a pile of numbers with a little flavor tacked on at the end.
In other news, I'm done and ready to go. I added a couple Abjurant Champion levels (which were going to come in later anyway), and I'll come back to the class after Perfect Arcanist. Check the second post in this thread if you want to see the sheet.
You are incorrect sir. That may be fully RAW, but it's nowhere close to RAI. Those rules were not intended to be stacked together, and they were probably intended to be used during the game (not during character creation beforehand).
If you interpret "RAI" that way (Not as how the rules were intended to work, but as how the game was intended to be played.), you might want to take into consideration that it was RAI that characters would die, and also RAI that some encounters couldn't be beaten. Further, it has also been RAI that players don't necessarily have anything to stop their characters from dying. (IE: Spheres of annihilation in the statue's mouth.)
It was also RAI that you couldn't buy most items from most places, but only from rare metropolises. It was RAI that characters wouldn't just *ding* to next level, but require training during times. It was very strictly RAI that monsters would destroy magic items from the party, and cause permanent level and ability score loss. Suggestion was also that groups need around 13 encounters to a level up, and that new characters joining the party would start from a lower level.
I have tried to run campaigns like that, most of the players told me that I were a cruel DM and had no idea what DMing was about.
But seriously, your incessant munchkining gets really annoying. Can you please look at the rest of the characters and try to make something of comparable power. Better yet, make it something that feels like a character with some numbers added because you'll need them for fighting things. So far every character I've seen you make feels like a pile of numbers with a little flavor tacked on at the end.
Empiric data shows that the length of the actual thread is inversely correlated to the length of my biography. I believe that this has something to do with the moon being in a wrong angle during my grandfather's cat's 7th birthday.
More seriously, I've been trying to get better on that lately, Eadoin I felt was rather well fleshed out. (Proof to my former statement - that campaign died before we got to the first real plot-advancement point.)
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I think Amadi's point is reducing item costs can potentially be abused, not that he intended on doing so.
I'm going to rule that you can reduce item costs, but the reduction overlaps; it does not stack. So you can reduce the costs of your items by 70%, or 90%, but not both. I think this is fair.
Give me about an hour to redo my monetary expenditures (if that) and I'll be done.
Playing a Drow Warblade 12/Eternal Blade 10//Swordsage 20/Master of the Nine 2
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
Not done (might be done tonight, if I get the time).
Clanger is a Artificer 12/Psychic Warrior 10//Monk 3/Unarmed Swordsage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 15
Playing Lyrillon: Fighter 10 / Arcane Archer 12 // Sorcerer 8 / Abjurant Champion 2 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 / Archmage 5
I'm a blaster and a defensive counter-mage with veils attached. At this point, the bow is mainly there for nice tricks (read: imbue arrow) and places/enemies where spells don't work properly.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Alright.
I'm completely done now.
Gear and everything.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I've decided to cut out the artificer part of my build, and focus the build to improve unarmed damage, thus making Clanger a:
Psychic Warrior 22//Monk 1/Unarmed Swordsage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 13/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 4
A question: Can the unarmed progression of the Unarmed Swordsage and the Throw of Gentle Sun feat stack? Also, can the monk have an epic unarmed damage progression?
I realized that Throw of Gentle Sun obsoletes Monk levels and Tashalatora with PsyWar.
So, build is:
Psychic Warrior 22//Unarmed Swordsage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 13/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 5
I would think all the cool feats Epic Monks get can more than make up for a non-epic unarmed strike progression. Besides, 2d10 is fantastic for a weapon.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
ASA has said the coffers will be running dry as far as new loot is concerned... perhaps Evil is undergoing layoffs
At best we should expect 3 million in loot per PC (damn this horrible economic times :p)
Since you no longer have your previous wealth you might get better boons but I'll have to carefully decide your treasure. :S
Actually, the few times I've seen non-enhancement bonuses and worked out the formula, I've come to the conclusion that the formula used was bonus x bonus x 2000 for gp.
So you're multiplying it by five.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
I really like this idea. I would much rather have some of the items be specially designed to fit one of the characters in the party with some flavor attached and have the other ones sell at a lower value. If you do that consistently (and for different PCs), it makes for a much more interesting game.
Also, you get to decide our items which makes it more difficult for us to wreck things by getting silly items.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
So did you forge your items for a discounted price? Because a quick glance at your sheet shows that you went over 1.2 million.
Your armor, weapons, and belt alone go over 500,000.
Throw in 360,000 for one of the ability boosting items, and... it looks like another 720,000 for the other one.
That's well over 1.2 million. Forging is the only option I can think of that would allow you to do that.
Assuming that you indeed forged those items, what formula did you use to calculate the cost and exp? I'm assuming that you didn't forge any of them yourself, since you don't have the relevant feats or spellcasting ability. I'm considering using that method for Michael, since there are a few items I need for him that I can't afford but I don't know the accepted formula.
{Magic: The RPG}
For example, a Ring of Protection +5 costs a base 50,000 gp.
A Ring of Protection +5 that can only be used by a Halfling (or a Good Character or a Sorcerer) would cost 35,000
A Ring of Protection +5 that required the bearer to have ranks in Tumble would cost 45,000 GP
A Ring of Protection +5 that can only be used by a Good-aligned Halfling Sorcerer with ranks in Tumble would cost 15,435 gp, which happens to be roughly 31% of the item's base price.
Now, taking a magical suit of armor, let's say a +5 Heavy Fortification suit of Elven Chain.
Elven Chain (nonmagical Mithral Chainmail) costs 4150 gp.
The cost of the magical enhancements (+5 Heavy Fortification) costs 100,000 gp.
A suit of +5 Heavy Fortification Elven Chain only useable by an Evil Drow Swordsage with ranks in Concentration would cost 35020 gp (the price of the enhancements can be adjusted, the price of the actual nonmagical item--the mithral suit--cannot be).
As an aside, now you see why I say (and have said before on the original Flames of War campaign thread) that you cannot ignore the cost of a masterwork sword or a suit of armor when you're calculating magical item costs.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
I have explained what I did, and according to conversations I've had with Avatar of Kokusho, they should stack.
If he decides that they shouldn't then I will obviously need to work a bit more on my character, but this isn't the first time I've done this--I did it in Flames of War I, Storm Front, Godslayer, and any other game where I've had some money to start the game with.
Of course, it is ASA's prerogative as DM to deny such things.
Also, since it doesn't actually change the effects of the item or use custom effects that might not exist in one sourcebook or the other, I'd even argue that limiting such a thing as a Ring of Protection +5 doesn't make it a custom item.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Crafting it yourself instead of buying it. 50%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill. 90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment. 70%
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat 90%
Extraordinary Artisan feat 75%
Magical Artisan 75%
Binding a Colossal Elemental (Preferably an elemental whale) to it. 80%
Demon Mastery and Extract Demonic Essence ( 10% chance of the item having a curse) 50%
Seven Ravens Clan combined with the Guildmaster feat and Favored in Guild. 50%
Grand total percentage of the gp that must be payed. 3.189375 %
This would multiply my wealth by ~3100%, making it ~38 million. I pay 4% of that in XP (~1.5 million.), follow with me, however.
Favored in Guild and several Wizard's Circles in Sharn 90%
Legendary Artisan 75%
Magical Artisan 75%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill. 90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment. 70%
This Obelisk 80%
And I *only* have to pay 384.000 XP. Now, that might seem a lot, but instead of buying off LA, I already get 9,000+15.000+18,000 = 42,000. Add to that the Item Familiar (That I can protect with this amount of gold..) for 29,800. Even without going beyond to realms of TO, I could use 71,800, ~19% of the whole deal. I could therefore, *only* multiply ~19% of my wealth, making this whole thing into..
8.952.000. Yes, that's almost 9 million. Fully RAI & RAW, too. (And that is assuming I buy rest of my items, instead of buying experience and using it to craft, or instead of buying specifically crafted items.)
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
You are incorrect sir. That may be fully RAW, but it's nowhere close to RAI. Those rules were not intended to be stacked together, and they were probably intended to be used during the game (not during character creation beforehand).
But seriously, your incessant munchkining gets really annoying. Can you please look at the rest of the characters and try to make something of comparable power. Better yet, make it something that feels like a character with some numbers added because you'll need them for fighting things. So far every character I've seen you make feels like a pile of numbers with a little flavor tacked on at the end.
In other news, I'm done and ready to go. I added a couple Abjurant Champion levels (which were going to come in later anyway), and I'll come back to the class after Perfect Arcanist. Check the second post in this thread if you want to see the sheet.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
If you interpret "RAI" that way (Not as how the rules were intended to work, but as how the game was intended to be played.), you might want to take into consideration that it was RAI that characters would die, and also RAI that some encounters couldn't be beaten. Further, it has also been RAI that players don't necessarily have anything to stop their characters from dying. (IE: Spheres of annihilation in the statue's mouth.)
It was also RAI that you couldn't buy most items from most places, but only from rare metropolises. It was RAI that characters wouldn't just *ding* to next level, but require training during times. It was very strictly RAI that monsters would destroy magic items from the party, and cause permanent level and ability score loss. Suggestion was also that groups need around 13 encounters to a level up, and that new characters joining the party would start from a lower level.
I have tried to run campaigns like that, most of the players told me that I were a cruel DM and had no idea what DMing was about.
Empiric data shows that the length of the actual thread is inversely correlated to the length of my biography. I believe that this has something to do with the moon being in a wrong angle during my grandfather's cat's 7th birthday.
More seriously, I've been trying to get better on that lately, Eadoin I felt was rather well fleshed out. (Proof to my former statement - that campaign died before we got to the first real plot-advancement point.)
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm going to rule that you can reduce item costs, but the reduction overlaps; it does not stack. So you can reduce the costs of your items by 70%, or 90%, but not both. I think this is fair.
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Playing a Drow Warblade 12/Eternal Blade 10//Swordsage 20/Master of the Nine 2
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Clanger is a Artificer 12/Psychic Warrior 10//Monk 3/Unarmed Swordsage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 15
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Playing Lyrillon: Fighter 10 / Arcane Archer 12 // Sorcerer 8 / Abjurant Champion 2 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 / Archmage 5
I'm a blaster and a defensive counter-mage with veils attached. At this point, the bow is mainly there for nice tricks (read: imbue arrow) and places/enemies where spells don't work properly.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
Michael, Paladin//Fighter melee beatstick of Pelor.
Will do bio today.
{Magic: The RPG}
I'm almost done with my character.
Playing a Swashbuckler 3 / Fighter 4 / Dervish 10 / Tempest 5 // Sage 7 / Swiftblade 10 / Abjurant Champion 5
I would have gotten the character done last night, but I am on an impromptu vacation with my girlfriend. I'll be back on Sunday.
I'm completely done now.
Gear and everything.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
I'll put the thread up when you are all done.
{Magic: The RPG}
Psychic Warrior 22//Monk 1/Unarmed Swordsage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 13/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 4
A question: Can the unarmed progression of the Unarmed Swordsage and the Throw of Gentle Sun feat stack? Also, can the monk have an epic unarmed damage progression?
I realized that Throw of Gentle Sun obsoletes Monk levels and Tashalatora with PsyWar.
So, build is:
Psychic Warrior 22//Unarmed Swordsage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 13/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 5
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
{Magic: The RPG}