I know it's a little off topic but I can't get an answer anywhere else and this is the most active thread on Cockatrice so here's my dilemma-
I've recently got a new HD for my desktop. I downloaded Cockatrice from the woogerworks website. However, when I try to install it the card path comes up invalid and I can't cont. Anyone know how to fix this problem? Thanks!
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
You do know that this thread doesn't need your empty arguments. Yes, Bruker has said some things. But it doesn't change the fact that you can do almost anything you want with Cockatrice.
Just because you claim something to be an empty argument, does not make it so. One usually expects such a sweeping claim to be backed up by some sort of evidence, which you do not offer. I cite Bruker to provide evidence that Cockatrice is first and foremost a Magic the Gathering simulator, regardless of its theoretical capability to also simulate other games. This is also why the comparisons to Sharpie markers are ridiculous: Sharpies are not Magic the Gathering simulators; Cockatrice is.
In theory, I could kill someone with a canoe paddle. That doesn't make a canoe paddle a weapon.
Just because you claim something to be an empty argument, does not make it so. One usually expects such a sweeping claim to be backed up by some sort of evidence, which you do not offer. I cite Bruker to provide evidence that Cockatrice is first and foremost a Magic the Gathering simulator, regardless of its theoretical capability to also simulate other games. This is also why the comparisons to Sharpie markers are ridiculous: Sharpies are not Magic the Gathering simulators; Cockatrice is.
In theory, I could kill someone with a canoe paddle. That doesn't make a canoe paddle a weapon.
You realize you two are arguing semantics right? Soriel is just saying that it's not considered a MTG simulator because you can do other things with it, while you are say it is because that was the intended use of the device. Technically you are both right.
Edit: I dont know what the point of making the argument was in the first place. There have been things invented where the obvious intended use of the product or the primary use was to help do something illegal, but it had some legal uses and therefore couldn't be touched. Something that kind of fits would be CD burners... which I'm not sure if that's why they were invented, but I bet 90% of the use was to copy illegal files and turn them into illegal CDs. But they couldn't just blanket ban all CD burners because of the few people that used them to do something legit like back up computer files.
I think it's a weak analogy, but it does work a little because in this case they aren't giving the C&D to the makers of the program because it has the ability to play magic... but rather because of the use of pictures/art.
If you're going to sit here and make an analogy, could you do the following:
1. make it relevant
2. actually have an understanding of what you're talking about
Tell you what: Go out on the street tomorrow and ask people to name three weapons. Come back here and report how many named "canoe paddle". If you get one affirmative response, I will cede my point to you.
I dont know what the point of making the argument was in the first place.
We got here because posters like Soriel are arguing that Cockatrice really is not a Magic simulation at all, but rather a general purpose simulation that is used for every card game under the sun. From this it follows that Hasbro Deutschland GmbH is only imagining that players use it as a substitute for Magic Online, and therefore is insane in the membrane.
I would write more, but I am late for my Hello Kitty Crazy 8S Card Game tournament on Cockatrice.
We got here because posters like Soriel are arguing that Cockatrice really is not a Magic simulation at all, but rather a general purpose simulation that is used for every card game under the sun. From this it follows that Hasbro Deutschland GmbH is only imagining that players use it as a substitute for Magic Online, and therefore is insane in the membrane.
I would write more, but I am late for my Hello Kitty Crazy 8S Card Game tournament on Cockatrice.
Yeah... technically you are both right. You say that the majority of it's use is for playing magic and that was the intent of the program... and you are right. Soriel says that you can use it to play other games, and you can. Now, if Soriel were to claim that the majority of people use it to play games other than MTG, I'd have to strongly disagree with that but I don't think that's what is being claimed here.
It doesn't really matter because I'm almost certain the lawsuit centers around the use of images and to a lesser extent the files of all the card info on his servers. Not so much about the actual program used to play the game.
Tell you what: Go out on the street tomorrow and ask people to name three weapons. Come back here and report how many named "canoe paddle". If you get one affirmative response, I will cede my point to you.
So your analogy was "if i kill someone with a paddle, that doesn't make the paddle a weapon". Not only is this a terrible analogy for the discussion we're having but it is factually incorrect. It is a fact that if you murder someone with a paddle, that paddle is legally considered a weapon. That is a fact, this is something you can't dispute (i've seen you throw this phrase around when stating your own opinion I'd figure I'd show you how to properly use it).
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EDH Decks:
:symb:Seizan, Perverter of Truth:symb:
:symu:Kami of the Crescent Moon:symu:
:symr:Tahngarth, Talruum Hero:symr:
:symu::symg:Prime Speaker Zegana:symu::symg:
:symu::symr:Melek, Izzet Paragon:symu::symr:
People use cockatrice to play magic for free. there is no way around it. Hasbro (and pretty much every business) doesn't like the word "Free" because it makes them no money.
And why the **** are you guys arguing if his analogy is good or not. Everything that can be said on this topic has been said. I would lock this thread.
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"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon
People use cockatrice to play magic for free. there is no way around it. Hasbro (and pretty much every business) doesn't like the word "Free" because it makes them no money.
And why the **** are you guys arguing if his analogy is good or not. Everything that can be said on this topic has been said. I would lock this thread.
You are correct.
Although I think the actual legal reason they are using to get the guy to shut down his site is centered around the images and the files with the cards. I mean, if you could sue someone because they are creating a system that allows you to play magic for free, then proxying cards in real life would be in danger as well.
WHO would like to play PAPER for FREE, just Proxy is enough to play. Even image are no need, just text of card, mana cost, rule of text and type of card. Nobody can stop this.
I like Cockatrice very much:
- easy access, not need connection to net
- can do own collection list of physical card as decks and can access to view of collection
- everybody can access my collection as deck file, easy to access for suggetion for trade, exchange adn etc.
- easy to play with proxy(saving too much)
- no need MTGO account, why if I want to have only PAPER verion of cards.
It doesn't really matter because I'm almost certain the lawsuit centers around the use of images and to a lesser extent the files of all the card info on his servers. Not so much about the actual program used to play the game.
There is no lawsuit, there is a cease and desist letter from Hasbro Deutschland GmbH and we have no idea what it says, so this is pure speculation.
The survey you are proposing is not usefull. Asking 3 weapons to random strangers is evidently going to be the top 3 weapons: Gun, knife and baseball bat. It doesn't change the fact that a canoe paddle can be considered a weapon, just like a cellphone was considered one when a women hit someone with it. Same with a car, a screwdriver and many other items.
To sum it up, your survey is irrelevant to this thread and what you are saying is like a broken disk, so please, stop repeating your arguments, you said them once and it should be enough.
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Casual crazy magic player, otaku maniac, unrully cosplayer, what did you expect me to be?
The survey you are proposing is not usefull. Asking 3 weapons to random strangers is evidently going to be the top 3 weapons: Gun, knife and baseball bat.
I would never have imagined that this simple analogy would be so difficult to understand. If you need things to be more literal, go ahead and survey players what game Cockatrice simulates, and then report how many respond with something other than "Magic."
WHO would like to play PAPER for FREE, just Proxy is enough to play. Even image are no need, just text of card, mana cost, rule of text and type of card. Nobody can stop this.
I like Cockatrice very much:
- easy access, not need connection to net
- can do own collection list of physical card as decks and can access to view of collection
- everybody can access my collection as deck file, easy to access for suggetion for trade, exchange adn etc.
- easy to play with proxy(saving too much)
- no need MTGO account, why if I want to have only PAPER verion of cards.
You could also make the same arguments for an index card over paper MTG.
The last two items are essentially: "dun wanna pay lol"
The second one MTGO does provide, and the third is basically facilitated thru message boards, of which plenty already exist for MTG.
I remember reading somewere that it was indeed illigal to proxy cards in real life. I remember this because I was thinking to myself: yeah.. like they will EVER find out about that..
So yeah if proxying cards is also illigal then it kinda makes sense.
Proxying cards is only illegal if the proxies contain the image of the card, logos, and/or flavor text. Those are the only things printed on the card that WotC owns as intellectual property.
There's no way WotC can legally stop you from writing the names of Magic cards on index cards and playing the game with them.
Proxying cards is only illegal if the proxies contain the image of the card, logos, and/or flavor text. Those are the only things printed on the card that WotC owns as intellectual property.
There's no way WotC can legally stop you from writing the names of Magic cards on index cards and playing the game with them.
Pardon me if this has been asked before, but why then does magiccards.info have a proxy-printing feature on the site if proxies are illegal? (And of course why are they allowed to host the card images in the first place?)
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Standard - GW Humans Modern - B Infect EDH - GBaru, Fist of Krosa (ramp/land theme) Casual - WR Defender
Although I think the actual legal reason they are using to get the guy to shut down his site is centered around the images and the files with the cards. I mean, if you could sue someone because they are creating a system that allows you to play magic for free, then proxying cards in real life would be in danger as well.
Let me see if I got this right: First you throw out a speculation about the legal matters at hand. Then you criticize the legal merits of the case based on this speculation, and manage to refer to a lawsuit that does not exist (C&D <> lawsuit).
I don't believe I've seen anyone mention this but Cockatrice supports Mac. Something WotC MTOG does not. Hasbro is all worried about the money Cockatrice is losing them but if you subtract all of the Mac users out of the equation, that's money they can't even get anyway and its their own damn fault.
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The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
There's no way WotC can legally stop you from writing the names of Magic cards on index cards and playing the game with them.
I have no doubt that Hasbro would be trying to find a way to go after you if you were making your own proxies and found a way to make playing "Proxy Magic" into a cult following that had hundreds of thousands of people playing for free without purchasing any cards. I think that this is the real issue with Cockatrice.
I don't think Hasbro cares so much about you playing Proxy Magic with your friends, but Cockatrice comes packaged in a way that makes it too easy to play Proxy Magic with way too many people. Only until recently did Oracle not automatically come with Cockatrice as you downloaded it (giving you a very easy and effective way to make proxies), and it definitely comes along with a community of people to play with for free without having put a single cent into Hasbro's pocket. I think that the actions being taken are more for the sake of making it less convenient to just plug in and play a feasible replacement for Magic/MTGO when you download Cockatrice.
It's weird because...for a while, I knew guys who played MTGO, and I'd talk bad behind their backs because they paid for virtual cardboard.
At the end of the day...How big IS magic? They're not making as much as they COULD be, in theory. But they're not cracking down on the secondary market, if online cardstores are an indicator.
Most people agree that those are a good thing for the game.
I think Cockatrice is a good thing for the game, as well. It lets people test decks. Try-before-you-buy.
When people all around the internet preach "Buy singles, not packs", it fits right into that.
There are inherent benefits in going to sanctioned tournaments that Wizards themselves sets up.
DCI ratings...bigger tournaments...bigger prize pools...
At a certain point, the "PTQ Grinders" You see posting articles every day might be doing the best job of advertizing the "Play in paper, give wizards money, maybe with some face-to-face interaction" side of the game.
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I've recently got a new HD for my desktop. I downloaded Cockatrice from the woogerworks website. However, when I try to install it the card path comes up invalid and I can't cont. Anyone know how to fix this problem? Thanks!
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
In theory, I could kill someone with a canoe paddle. That doesn't make a canoe paddle a weapon.
You realize you two are arguing semantics right? Soriel is just saying that it's not considered a MTG simulator because you can do other things with it, while you are say it is because that was the intended use of the device. Technically you are both right.
Edit: I dont know what the point of making the argument was in the first place. There have been things invented where the obvious intended use of the product or the primary use was to help do something illegal, but it had some legal uses and therefore couldn't be touched. Something that kind of fits would be CD burners... which I'm not sure if that's why they were invented, but I bet 90% of the use was to copy illegal files and turn them into illegal CDs. But they couldn't just blanket ban all CD burners because of the few people that used them to do something legit like back up computer files.
I think it's a weak analogy, but it does work a little because in this case they aren't giving the C&D to the makers of the program because it has the ability to play magic... but rather because of the use of pictures/art.
legally it is.
If you're going to sit here and make an analogy, could you do the following:
1. make it relevant
2. actually have an understanding of what you're talking about
:symb:Seizan, Perverter of Truth:symb:
:symu:Kami of the Crescent Moon:symu:
:symr:Tahngarth, Talruum Hero:symr:
:symu::symg:Prime Speaker Zegana:symu::symg:
:symu::symr:Melek, Izzet Paragon:symu::symr:
I would write more, but I am late for my Hello Kitty Crazy 8S Card Game tournament on Cockatrice.
Yeah... technically you are both right. You say that the majority of it's use is for playing magic and that was the intent of the program... and you are right. Soriel says that you can use it to play other games, and you can. Now, if Soriel were to claim that the majority of people use it to play games other than MTG, I'd have to strongly disagree with that but I don't think that's what is being claimed here.
It doesn't really matter because I'm almost certain the lawsuit centers around the use of images and to a lesser extent the files of all the card info on his servers. Not so much about the actual program used to play the game.
So your analogy was "if i kill someone with a paddle, that doesn't make the paddle a weapon". Not only is this a terrible analogy for the discussion we're having but it is factually incorrect. It is a fact that if you murder someone with a paddle, that paddle is legally considered a weapon. That is a fact, this is something you can't dispute (i've seen you throw this phrase around when stating your own opinion I'd figure I'd show you how to properly use it).
:symb:Seizan, Perverter of Truth:symb:
:symu:Kami of the Crescent Moon:symu:
:symr:Tahngarth, Talruum Hero:symr:
:symu::symg:Prime Speaker Zegana:symu::symg:
:symu::symr:Melek, Izzet Paragon:symu::symr:
And why the **** are you guys arguing if his analogy is good or not. Everything that can be said on this topic has been said. I would lock this thread.
*facedesk* Do you see anybody arguing to the contrary?
No, that's why I said there is no way around it. People can't deny it so there really no case to protect cockatrice.
You are correct.
Although I think the actual legal reason they are using to get the guy to shut down his site is centered around the images and the files with the cards. I mean, if you could sue someone because they are creating a system that allows you to play magic for free, then proxying cards in real life would be in danger as well.
I like Cockatrice very much:
- easy access, not need connection to net
- can do own collection list of physical card as decks and can access to view of collection
- everybody can access my collection as deck file, easy to access for suggetion for trade, exchange adn etc.
- easy to play with proxy(saving too much)
- no need MTGO account, why if I want to have only PAPER verion of cards.
It's not just the fact that you're an idiot, because I've met plenty of nice, stupid people in my life, it's the fact that your ignorant too
Please don't insult other users. -TK
:symb:Seizan, Perverter of Truth:symb:
:symu:Kami of the Crescent Moon:symu:
:symr:Tahngarth, Talruum Hero:symr:
:symu::symg:Prime Speaker Zegana:symu::symg:
:symu::symr:Melek, Izzet Paragon:symu::symr:
The survey you are proposing is not usefull. Asking 3 weapons to random strangers is evidently going to be the top 3 weapons: Gun, knife and baseball bat. It doesn't change the fact that a canoe paddle can be considered a weapon, just like a cellphone was considered one when a women hit someone with it. Same with a car, a screwdriver and many other items.
To sum it up, your survey is irrelevant to this thread and what you are saying is like a broken disk, so please, stop repeating your arguments, you said them once and it should be enough.
You could also make the same arguments for an index card over paper MTG.
The last two items are essentially: "dun wanna pay lol"
The second one MTGO does provide, and the third is basically facilitated thru message boards, of which plenty already exist for MTG.
Proxying cards is only illegal if the proxies contain the image of the card, logos, and/or flavor text. Those are the only things printed on the card that WotC owns as intellectual property.
There's no way WotC can legally stop you from writing the names of Magic cards on index cards and playing the game with them.
Standard - GW Humans
Modern - B Infect
EDH - G Baru, Fist of Krosa (ramp/land theme)
Casual - WR Defender
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I have no doubt that Hasbro would be trying to find a way to go after you if you were making your own proxies and found a way to make playing "Proxy Magic" into a cult following that had hundreds of thousands of people playing for free without purchasing any cards. I think that this is the real issue with Cockatrice.
I don't think Hasbro cares so much about you playing Proxy Magic with your friends, but Cockatrice comes packaged in a way that makes it too easy to play Proxy Magic with way too many people. Only until recently did Oracle not automatically come with Cockatrice as you downloaded it (giving you a very easy and effective way to make proxies), and it definitely comes along with a community of people to play with for free without having put a single cent into Hasbro's pocket. I think that the actions being taken are more for the sake of making it less convenient to just plug in and play a feasible replacement for Magic/MTGO when you download Cockatrice.
At the end of the day...How big IS magic? They're not making as much as they COULD be, in theory. But they're not cracking down on the secondary market, if online cardstores are an indicator.
Most people agree that those are a good thing for the game.
I think Cockatrice is a good thing for the game, as well. It lets people test decks. Try-before-you-buy.
When people all around the internet preach "Buy singles, not packs", it fits right into that.
There are inherent benefits in going to sanctioned tournaments that Wizards themselves sets up.
DCI ratings...bigger tournaments...bigger prize pools...
At a certain point, the "PTQ Grinders" You see posting articles every day might be doing the best job of advertizing the "Play in paper, give wizards money, maybe with some face-to-face interaction" side of the game.