I believe that Wizards was within their right to take it down. I know many elementary school children who play the game, and their parents would easily be concerned by art of this nature created by an official MTG artist.
In case the other link goes down, I found another version of it uploaded here.
I don't think a "think of the children" argument is valid here. There's much more risque art on existing cards and there's even a few sex scenes within the MTG books.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
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I don't think a "think of the children" argument is valid here. There's much more risque art on existing cards and there's even a few sex scenes within the MTG books.
Then the logical reason would be the homophobia. Oh, I hope against hope that Wizards hasn't stooped to that level.
I believe that Wizards was within their right to take it down. I know many elementary school children who play the game, and their parents would easily be concerned by art of this nature created by an official MTG artist.
In case the other link goes down, I found another version of it uploaded here.
How are elementary school children going to see this art?
Steve probably didn't make the brightest decision but Wizards totally overreacted to the point of ridiculousness. They're both wearing clothes and exposing less than they usually do, especially Liliana.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
I don't think a "think of the children" argument is valid here. There's much more risque art on existing cards and there's even a few sex scenes within the MTG books.
Yeah, it is a PG13 game after all... and hardly anything is going on in the artwork anyways.
...and we don't know, maybe Lili just tripped into Chandra and is merely thanking Chan for catching her.
Then the logical reason would be the homophobia. Oh, I hope against hope that Wizards hasn't stooped to that level.
I don't know if it's homophobia in particular. I think the reasoning that they simply didn't want two of their main characters represented by one of their main artists in such a manner is a legitimate one, but their reaction was still to the extreme.
Given the fuss they're making, it's only going to cause the image to get distributed faster, gaining it more views and enraging more fans as the story moves with it.
Yeah, it is a PG13 game after all... and hardly anything is going on in the artwork anyways.
...and we don't know, maybe Lili just tripped into Chandra and is merely thanking Chan for catching her.
Indeed, by movie standards, you could probably rate the scene as PG, clothes are still on and all. They've certainly allowed other female characters, even their main ones, Liliana in particular, to appear in much less.
But then, whose fault is that really? If parents are upset their precious babies are seeing "dirty" art, then THEY need to control what their children are exposed to.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
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Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
He was a bit buzzed when he put up that artwork, he said as much in the post included with it on Deviantart (by the way, the line drawing it came from had been on his DA account for a while before he posted the final version). Argyle may have taken it down on his own once he had time to think about it.
More likely though is that Wizards asked for it to be removed and he complied.
Describing it as Wizards "strongarming" him may be a bit severe seeing as we don't actually know what went on.
...and now you are just being ridiculous.
They said take it down or you don't have a job. I can not even belive you people are not standing up for him. This is exactly why America is having problems, cause people wont stand up to coportaions and make excuses for them cause you are all a bunch of loyal serf ****s.
They said take it down or you don't have a job. I can not even belive you people are not standing up for him. This is exactly why America is having problems, cause people wont stand up to coportaions and make excuses for them cause you are all a bunch of loyal serf ****s.
Do you have any evidence of them saying that?
E-mails? Press releases? Public statements?
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
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Really? Where did they (or Steve Argyle) say that?
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I can not even belive you people are not standing up for him. This is exactly why America is having problems, cause people wont stand up to coportaions and make excuses for them cause you are all a bunch of loyal serf ****s.
No, the problem with america is that people would rather complain about what someone else is or isn't doing about a problem rather than doing something about it themselves.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I absolutely must have a higher res version to have a playmat out of.
Maybe they made him take it down because they want to use it as art for a future set or reprint (Liliana's Caress in M13 maybe?!) Wishful thinking...
Maybe it's actually spoilers. LilianaXChandra will be Wizard's first big-name homosexual couple! Doubt it but still...
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
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They said take it down or you don't have a job. I can not even belive you people are not standing up for him. This is exactly why America is having problems, cause people wont stand up to coportaions and make excuses for them cause you are all a bunch of loyal serf ****s.
Ah yes, freedom is such a shame. We should take away all the rights of privately owned companies, and say that anyone who wants to work for them should have a job, even if they have a bad record.
Wizards can do whatever they want. If they they think that an employee is doing something to hurt the company, they would fire him. Likewise, is Argyle posts something that makes Wizards look bad, they can tell him that he needs to shape up or he will be gone.
Likewise, if you own a little shop and have a cashier that takes too much time ringing people up and is rude to the customers, you wouldn't keep him around just because "it's his right to allow him to do what he wants." You want your customers to be happy, so you would have to fire this employee. It's really the same situation with Argyle.
Ah yes, freedom is such a shame. We should take away all the rights of privately owned companies, and say that anyone who wants to work for them should have a job, even if they have a bad record.
Wizards can do whatever they want. If they they think that an employee is doing something to hurt the company, they would fire him. Likewise, is Argyle posts something that makes Wizards look bad, they can tell him that he needs to shape up or he will be gone.
Likewise, if you own a little shop and have a cashier that takes too much time ringing people up and is rude to the customers, you wouldn't keep him around just because "it's his right to allow him to do what he wants." You want your customers to be happy, so you would have to fire this employee. It's really the same situation with Argyle.
All they're doing is drawing even more attention to Steve and the image in question. It's like him taking it down means it's deleted off the internet.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
They have to stand up for their rights or in the future there is precedent that they ignored them. Much like hounding our Rumor Mill friends.
Not trying to come off as being smug but how exactly does someone posting fan art on their Deviantart page violate any copyright law? If he was trying to sell it as a product I could see the justification.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
Not trying to come off as being smug but how exactly does someone posting fan art on their Deviantart page violate any copyright law? If he was trying to sell it as a product I could see the justification.
All fan-art is a violation of copyright protection. You are using the copyrighted character designs of another for your own uses without authorization.
Most companies simply turn a blind eye to it because they realize that doing something about it will hurt them more than it will help.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
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According to copyright law, copyright holders have the sole right to distribute derivative works based on an original creation. This includes sequels and any other work that includes copyrightable elements from the original creation.
As was confirmed in the recent “Catcher in the Rye” case, characters can be granted copyright protection as can many other non-expression elements of the original work. This is furthered that most fan creations are built upon plot elements and other copyrightable parts of the original material.
That being said, fair use may protect some fan creations from being an infringement, but that is handled on a case-by-case basis, looking at the facts of the actual work. However, most fan creations, by their very nature, don’t parody or criticize the source material, which would provide a great deal of protection, nor are they highly transformative, meaning that they are less likely to win in the even that such a suit takes place.
It is also worth noting that fan fiction and fan art can be a trademark violation as well, especially if it uses names and titles in a way that causes confusion as to whether they are official. Trademark disputes over fan creations are rare, but still possible.
Given that Steve is a name among Magic artists, this would be especially concerning for Branding; it may look like an official WotC piece (& I just mean the overt sexuality, not the orientation – I'm gonna give Hasbro/WotC the benefit of the doubt that they only care that their high-profile intellectual property is Getting It On, not who specifically is Getting It On).
Given that Steve is a name among Magic artists, this would be especially concerning for Branding; it may look like an official WotC piece (& I just mean the overt sexuality, not the orientation – I'm gonna give Hasbro/WotC the benefit of the doubt that they only care that their high-profile intellectual property is Getting It On, not who specifically is Getting It On).
fair use bro! you don't know what you are talking about
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Arrest this man he talks in math
The Tea Party is the working class fighting against the man fighting for the working class.
It's called EDH kids, there is no such thing as commander.
fair use bro! you don't know what you are talking about
Fair Use may cover this (parody, I suppose you could argue) but it certainly doesn't address the paragraph there regarding how Brand feels about a magic artist using its copyright in this manner, or the choice Steve has; either to please the people putting food on his table or his own creative impulse.
Fair Use eds –
Quote from Main articles: Fair use and Fair dealing »
Copyright does not prohibit all copying or replication. In the United States, the fair use doctrine, codified by the Copyright Act of 1976 as 17 U.S.C. Section 107, permits some copying and distribution without permission of the copyright holder or payment to same. The statute does not clearly define fair use, but instead gives four non-exclusive factors to consider in a fair use analysis. Those factors are:
the purpose and character of your use
the nature of the copyrighted work
what amount and proportion of the whole work was taken, and
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work
I'm guessing that WotC/Hasbro has a leg up on the case with the bolded qualifiers.
All they're doing is drawing even more attention to Steve and the image in question. It's like him taking it down means it's deleted off the internet.
Hmm, maybe this was Steve's plan all along. He took down the art and made it seem like wizards was being unfair to him - just to attract more people onto his website to view his pictures.
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I'm going to have to print some proxies.
I don't think a "think of the children" argument is valid here. There's much more risque art on existing cards and there's even a few sex scenes within the MTG books.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Then the logical reason would be the homophobia. Oh, I hope against hope that Wizards hasn't stooped to that level.
How are elementary school children going to see this art?
Steve probably didn't make the brightest decision but Wizards totally overreacted to the point of ridiculousness. They're both wearing clothes and exposing less than they usually do, especially Liliana.
Who's eating crow?
Yeah, it is a PG13 game after all... and hardly anything is going on in the artwork anyways.
...and we don't know, maybe Lili just tripped into Chandra and is merely thanking Chan for catching her.
In the same way we both saw this art.
I don't know if it's homophobia in particular. I think the reasoning that they simply didn't want two of their main characters represented by one of their main artists in such a manner is a legitimate one, but their reaction was still to the extreme.
Given the fuss they're making, it's only going to cause the image to get distributed faster, gaining it more views and enraging more fans as the story moves with it.
Indeed, by movie standards, you could probably rate the scene as PG, clothes are still on and all. They've certainly allowed other female characters, even their main ones, Liliana in particular, to appear in much less.
But then, whose fault is that really? If parents are upset their precious babies are seeing "dirty" art, then THEY need to control what their children are exposed to.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Maybe their parents should monitor their internet activity then?
Who's eating crow?
There's far worse on the sites that he uploaded these to for them to be worried about.
They said take it down or you don't have a job. I can not even belive you people are not standing up for him. This is exactly why America is having problems, cause people wont stand up to coportaions and make excuses for them cause you are all a bunch of loyal serf ****s.
Flame infraction issued. r~
Do you have any evidence of them saying that?
E-mails? Press releases? Public statements?
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Really? Where did they (or Steve Argyle) say that?
No, the problem with america is that people would rather complain about what someone else is or isn't doing about a problem rather than doing something about it themselves.
Maybe they made him take it down because they want to use it as art for a future set or reprint (Liliana's Caress in M13 maybe?!) Wishful thinking...
Maybe it's actually spoilers. LilianaXChandra will be Wizard's first big-name homosexual couple! Doubt it but still...
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Ah yes, freedom is such a shame. We should take away all the rights of privately owned companies, and say that anyone who wants to work for them should have a job, even if they have a bad record.
Wizards can do whatever they want. If they they think that an employee is doing something to hurt the company, they would fire him. Likewise, is Argyle posts something that makes Wizards look bad, they can tell him that he needs to shape up or he will be gone.
Likewise, if you own a little shop and have a cashier that takes too much time ringing people up and is rude to the customers, you wouldn't keep him around just because "it's his right to allow him to do what he wants." You want your customers to be happy, so you would have to fire this employee. It's really the same situation with Argyle.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
All they're doing is drawing even more attention to Steve and the image in question. It's like him taking it down means it's deleted off the internet.
Who's eating crow?
Not trying to come off as being smug but how exactly does someone posting fan art on their Deviantart page violate any copyright law? If he was trying to sell it as a product I could see the justification.
Who's eating crow?
All fan-art is a violation of copyright protection. You are using the copyrighted character designs of another for your own uses without authorization.
Most companies simply turn a blind eye to it because they realize that doing something about it will hurt them more than it will help.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/05/13/the-messy-world-of-fan-art-and-copyright/
Given that Steve is a name among Magic artists, this would be especially concerning for Branding; it may look like an official WotC piece (& I just mean the overt sexuality, not the orientation – I'm gonna give Hasbro/WotC the benefit of the doubt that they only care that their high-profile intellectual property is Getting It On, not who specifically is Getting It On).
fair use bro! you don't know what you are talking about
Personally I ship JaceXGarruk
Couples in Magic would be an interesting idea actually.
Fair Use may cover this (parody, I suppose you could argue) but it certainly doesn't address the paragraph there regarding how Brand feels about a magic artist using its copyright in this manner, or the choice Steve has; either to please the people putting food on his table or his own creative impulse.
Fair Use eds –
I'm guessing that WotC/Hasbro has a leg up on the case with the bolded qualifiers.
Hmm, maybe this was Steve's plan all along. He took down the art and made it seem like wizards was being unfair to him - just to attract more people onto his website to view his pictures.