The reserved list is hardly "killing" Legacy.
They've taken multiple steps to make Modern more accessible. With the exception of Jund, most Modern decks fall in the $400-$600 range.
Many of the strongest cards in standard right now are Rare or less. Of the top 30 cards in standard right now, only 2 are Mythic (Jace, Architect of Thought and Master of Waves). If we extend to the top 50, we only pick up 4 more (Thassa, God of the Sea, Stormbreath Dragon, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Sphinx's Revelation). None of these cards are even worth more than $20.
I really think your missing Voice of Resurgence in that list
I really think your missing Voice of Resurgence in that list
I'm taking data compiled from metamox.com from tournament results from the previous 3 weeks. Voice barely shows up, more than 100 cards down on the list. There are only 76 copies of it that shows up in those tournaments, compared to 276 for Blood Baron and a whopping 1367 for Mutavault.
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The reserved list is hardly "killing" Legacy.
They've taken multiple steps to make Modern more accessible. With the exception of Jund, most Modern decks fall in the $400-$600 range.
Many of the strongest cards in standard right now are Rare or less. Of the top 30 cards in standard right now, only 2 are Mythic (Jace, Architect of Thought and Master of Waves). If we extend to the top 50, we only pick up 4 more (Thassa, God of the Sea, Stormbreath Dragon, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Sphinx's Revelation). None of these cards are even worth more than $20.
I'm guessing you're entirely ignoring my post where I responded to your similar prior claim, informing you that the cards that are being proxied include Legacy staples, like Onslaught fetches and ABUR duals (unless you know of a retailer who sells these for less than $20?). Did you not see it, or is there some reason you are purposefully ignoring this information?
EDIT: Ah, my mistake, you were referring only to the cards you are listing as the top 30 cards in Standard right now being less than $20.
I'm guessing you're entirely ignoring my post where I responded to your similar prior claim, informing you that the cards that are being proxied include Legacy staples, like Onslaught fetches and ABUR duals (unless you know of a retailer who sells these for less than $20?). Did you not see it, or is there some reason you are purposefully ignoring this information?
Well, this post wasn't responding to you, but rather to another poster.
Yes, they're printing Legacy staples. Some of those staples are even on the reserved list. What of it?
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I do feel that the damage this would cause the secondary market is due to the mismanagement of the supply-to-demand caused by the primary market. I don't necessarily blame the secondary market for this, but it is something that they should have considered when entering the market.
WotC is the supply bottleneck. They could ease the bottleneck a bit, and maybe make large participants that are active in the secondary market upset. Or they could try to mitigate this through other means (like that new card design, etc.). At some point they will have to consider what would happen if they cannot get this under control.
As of right now, the counterfeiters are taking advantage of a market of consumers that WotC (and consequently, the secondary market) have neglected to recognize. Either way, the secondary market is in for a hit if this grows. WotC could ignore this, or take relatively minor steps to mitigate the losses of the secondary market, but the hit that the secondary market would take relies heavily on how WotC reacts.
WotC isn't getting my money as of right now anyways, because I'm not participating in the market. I rarely buy cards any more, and when I do, it's for cheap singles that are usually out of print. They can continue to do what they do, and not get my money. But these counterfeiters? They know what I want, and what I'm willing to pay for it. And from the comments on reddit, Facebook, these forums, and various other sites, I'm definitely not alone.
There are other alternative actions that WotC could take. Print gold-bordered cards, and make them so they aren't legal in sanctioned events? Sounds pretty reasonable to me. They would definitely stand to make money off of that. The amount that the originals would drop would be in proportion to how truly collectible they are. Would they drop? By how much? That tells you that the "collectible" side relies heavier on the "game" side than many are willing to admit. Most arguments I hear against the counterfeiters keep pointing out that it's a "collectible card game". I'd be interested in seeing what matters more to the Magic consumer - collecting or playing? Let's lay the money down and see
Everything I have read says no, they fail the blacklight test.
So besides the fact that they don't feel like magic cards, and don't have a correct copyright line, they fail the easiest authenticity test for magic cards.
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Personally I play MTG to have fun, and price often gets in the way of that. Personally I would be elated if all cards were reduced to 5 bucks each. Collectors and WotC would lose out big time, but casual players like me would love it.
We'll just have to see if this becomes a huge deal.
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Everything I have read says no, they fail the blacklight test.
So besides the fact that they don't feel like magic cards, and don't have a correct copyright line, they fail the easiest authenticity test for magic cards.
How long would it take them to switch to flourescent coating/cardstock or however mtg cards are done? Do you think people could coat them in something to make them fluoresce?
Everything I have read says no, they fail the blacklight test.
So besides the fact that they don't feel like magic cards, and don't have a correct copyright line, they fail the easiest authenticity test for magic cards.
I'm sorry... can someone explain this 'Black Light Test'? I been playing for years and I never heard such things.
I only just noticed this thread and never realized this is a problem but it does not shock me. I honestly always thought about counterfeit cards and wondered if someone does it.
The black light test is when you take a black light and shine it on the card and the card glows due to the light. Most fakes have a layer on the surface that prevents this glow which is a sign of a fake.
As for how this discussion has been going I have to agree with purklefluff and thnkr in that the current case of shelling out huge amounts of currency just so that you have a fighting chance is more than a bit silly and it has created a divide between the haves and have not in terms of enjoying a game. And when a void is created, whether it is good/bad/or indifferent, something will try to fill it.
And Wildfire393 there is nothing wrong with what you are arguing about how this is wrong and that this is could hurt players. But if you remember Modern Masters (AKA Major Missfire) a good number of players did not have a good experience from that. There were a good few who on this site bragged about how they got two or more boxes and were planning to sell off the extra at extremely inflated price so that they would get their boxes for free, in a sense forcing someone else to cover the expense for them. The reason why I mention MM is because a lot of the cheap rare knock-offs appear to have been from that set. There is a possible chance that these forgers are trying to take advantage of players who desperately wanted certain cards from that set.
This game has been creeping slowly away from the fun and more to making money, If you argue that it is a "Card Collector" merchandise please remember that most try to play the game for the fun of it and it is that fun factor brings in the new players. And I can say with much confidence, and some truthful bitterness, going to a Friday night game only to get creamed because you did not pay 200+ for your deck is not fun.
If these forgers try to expand and I trust that they will try, we could start seeing them more often and what makes things worse is I kind of don't feel that upset about that. I wish I had something deep and meaningful or at least funny but I can not think up of anything, this problem is merely a symptom of how out of control the second market is at times.
I fail to see how "for the enjoyment game" justifies the possibility of undermining the value of cards on the secondary market. These are not high-quality proxies made by individuals for their own use, these are counterfeits that may be passed along as authentic.
Even if the only way for you to play MtG is paper magic, and the only scene around is competitive, there is little justification for devaluing cards on the secondary market through these illegal means. It's not a necessity; don't act like you can't feed your family because the secondary market prices of Magic cards are too high for your taste or your budget.
You can have fun without spending money on this game, you can play an all proxy deck with your friends at the kitchen table (I'm sorry if your proxies don't dupe your friends into believing you have authentic cards), why should we risk devaluing the authentic cards people have put time, effort, and money into acquiring?
I fail to see how "for the enjoyment game" justifies the possibility of undermining the value of cards on the secondary market. These are not high-quality proxies made by individuals for their own use, these are counterfeits that may be passed along as authentic.
Even if the only way for you to play MtG is paper magic, and the only scene around is competitive, there is little justification for devaluing cards on the secondary market through these illegal means. It's not a necessity; don't act like you can't feed your family because the secondary market prices of Magic cards are too high for your taste or your budget.
You can have fun without spending money on this game, you can play an all proxy deck with your friends at the kitchen table (I'm sorry if your proxies don't dupe your friends into believing you have authentic cards), why should we risk devaluing the authentic cards people have put time, effort, and money into acquiring?
Well do we need the second market to enjoy the game?
For me I merely went to card stores to try to play the game with other people, I honestly try to play outside of most tournaments now since I enjoy multi-player more than 1 vs 1. The only thing that the Market has done is make it easier to find cards, affording them on the other hand they have not been so helpful.
As for using these fakes versus using proxies from a printer there can be an argument of the mental aspect in which if it looks better then you would feel better about using them for your proxies. Then again I will agree with you that the creation and selling of these cards with the intention of fooling someone is wrong. But what I will say again is that this problem is tied to how the second market has been pricing cards and/or how WOTC has been supplying rare or strong cards.
As for time, effort, and money into acquiring cards you have to remember that with any investment in collectibles there is a promised loss of some kind. And I really wonder how many of these collector actually care more about being able to have more fun and interesting games instead of the ups and downs of the values of their collection. (Counterfeits aside of course, I am sure their are some who have nightmares that their treasured card is a complete fake.)
Well do we need the second market to enjoy the game?
For me I merely went to card stores to try to play the game with other people, I honestly try to play outside of most tournaments now since I enjoy multi-player more than 1 vs 1. The only thing that the Market has done is make it easier to find cards, affording them on the other hand they have not been so helpful.
As for using these fakes versus using proxies from a printer there can be an argument of the mental aspect in which if it looks better then you would feel better about using them for your proxies. Then again I will agree with you that the creation and selling of these cards with the intention of fooling someone is wrong. But what I will say again is that this problem is tied to how the second market has been pricing cards and/or how WOTC has been supplying rare or strong cards.
As for time, effort, and money into acquiring cards you have to remember that with any investment in collectibles there is a promised loss of some kind. And I really wonder how many of these collector actually care more about being able to have more fun and interesting games instead of the ups and downs of the values of their collection. (Counterfeits aside of course, I am sure their are some who have nightmares that their treasured card is a complete fake.)
Yes, there is always a risk in investment. No, that is not an acceptable excuse for advocating or promoting counterfeit cards. Our loss of "immersion" because our proxied JTMS doesn't "pop" when we lay it on the table isn't comparable to any possible monetary loss people who have invested in the product may suffer if a significant enough amount of counterfeits are introduced into the market.
Wizards has the right to handle their product in (almost) any way they want. If we want to play their game, we pay the prices. We don't have to pay the prices and we don't have to play their game. Breaking the law is not an acceptable answer for solving any problem based in the way Wizards handles the distribution of their product.
Yes, there is always a risk in investment. No, that is not an acceptable excuse for advocating or promoting counterfeit cards. Our loss of "immersion" because our proxied JTMS doesn't "pop" when we lay it on the table isn't comparable to any possible monetary loss people who have invested in the product may suffer if a significant enough amount of counterfeits are introduced into the market.
Wizards has the right to handle their product in (almost) any way they want. If we want to play their game, we pay the prices. We don't have to pay the prices and we don't have to play their game. Breaking the law is not an acceptable answer for solving any problem based in the way Wizards handles the distribution of their product.
You seem to condone using proxies when the real thing isn't within someone's budget, but disapprove when a source for high quality proxies comes along.
There is another way to look at it. I've already started using proxies, for quite some time now. I haven't paid these counterfeiters any money (yet), but my money for proxies has gone to my local internet company and the manufacturer of the ink for my printer. Essentially, I'm paying two companies for counterfeit cards - I'm just doing the work. And it's all for personal use. That's money WotC is losing out on. These counterfeits are nearly equivalent in the price that I pay for the equal internet and ink that I need to print the same cards, but much higher in quality.
WotC doesn't seem to mind people using proxies for personal use. As far as I"m concerned, I'd be willing to buy high quality proxies from someone else, rather than buy the ink to make them myself. Either way, WotC wasn't going to get my money because of their own mistakes and the mistakes made by speculators in the secondary market.
See, I can play their game without paying those prices.
A.) These could be the best counterfeits we have yet to see
B.) There is an upcoming format change
These counterfeits might actually be worth something in the future, not as legitimate playing cards but for the fact that they are very well made fake ones. So for all we know some collectors might be saying in years to come "Hey check out these rare high quality forgeries I managed to collect." A well made fake that can fool someone can have value in of itself. All that matters is how much infamy this line of counterfeits becomes and how many people hold on to these fakes.
I brought a playset of Modern Masters Tarmogoyfs the 12th of december, from Ebay. While they don't display any of the obvious signs of being faked as shown and went for a fairly normal price (449 USD) for 'goyfs, I'm wondering, I should I be concerned about their authenticity? I can post pictures...
I brought a playset of Modern Masters Tarmogoyfs the 12th of december, from Ebay. While they don't display any of the obvious signs of being faked as shown and went for a fairly normal price (449 USD) for 'goyfs, I'm wondering, I should I be concerned about their authenticity? I can post pictures...
POst pictures, it should be pretty apparent if they are but you can't be too safe with all the stuff running around. I've heard stories of weird things happening with how MTG cards circulate and how people don't want to be the ones stuck with the fakes.
Well do we need the second market to enjoy the game?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: The biggest buyers of new, sealed Magic product (the only product that WotC profits from) are online internet dealers; many of whom will open the product for singles sales. Take away the secondary market and it no longer makes sense for them to purchase so much product; thereby making Magic not as profitable for WotC/Hasbro which could lead to anything from an overall lower quality game or a discontinuation of the line.
And such is the great cosmic joke of collectible gaming; collectibility is required to make the game profitable and yet collectibility has nothing to do with one's skill at the game. After all...if someone wins a tournament with a counterfeit Tarmogoyf in their deck does that make them a worse player?
I realize that its no fun to lose cash value on cards and such, but would it really be that bad to have these cards more available? I'd love to be able to go to my lgs and play FNM with a modern deck that I enjoy and have the cards for, rather than go, pay $5 and get my **** trounced by some dude that lives with his grandmother and has no idea what hygiene is. (And no, I'm not kidding, there is a guy at my lgs just like this, and he's really creepy) He's been playing for years and years, so he has all the older cards. I get that, fair enough. However, if new players can't come in and enjoy the game because they can't afford to, it hurts the game as a whole.
Wizards has the right to handle their product in (almost) any way they want. If we want to play their game, we pay the prices. We don't have to pay the prices and we don't have to play their game. Breaking the law is not an acceptable answer for solving any problem based in the way Wizards handles the distribution of their product.
And as for the whole "you don't NEED to play the game, you don't NEED to spend this money"; no, we don't need to... but it's a friggin GAME. Its an enjoyable hobby. We WANT to spend the money, but we can't because we don't make enough. As a 19 year old college student, I make $8.70 an hour. That means after taxes, it would take me 3 weeks of work- at 40 hours a week (I work part time)- 3 weeks of not spending a single cent on food, rent, or anything else. Then I'd have 600 for a playset of 'Goyfs. I'd rather spend $4 bucks on a nice play set of fake 'Goyfs so I can actually enjoy the game with friends. Oh, and I'd be able to eat while I'm at it.
I realize that its no fun to lose cash value on cards and such, but would it really be that bad to have these cards more available?
~X
If they were being sold as high quality proxies, this wouldn't nearly be as big an issue. The fact is that these counterfeits are being passed off as the real thing, and that's fraud; nothing justifies that, period. That's the distinction. It's unfortunate that China (and any counterfeiter in general) doesn't recognize the importance of intellectual property rights.
As to your second point, any hobby will be expensive to someone. It's simply a fact of life that you won't be able to afford right now some of the things you want right now. Such individuals have three legal options in general: save money and enjoy the hobby later, find someone willing to give/loan you the things necessary to enjoy the hobby, or choose another hobby. It boils down to your individual priorities.
I brought a playset of Modern Masters Tarmogoyfs the 12th of december, from Ebay. While they don't display any of the obvious signs of being faked as shown and went for a fairly normal price (449 USD) for 'goyfs, I'm wondering, I should I be concerned about their authenticity? I can post pictures...
I think you can, just try to get close up with the top and bottom text.
How then? Would like to know why wizards does this when apparently they're so stupidly easy to copy?
The simple answer to your 2nd question is: "Because it will make the consumer *feel* more secure."
The 1st question doesn't have a simple answer, other than "The process is much cheaper than you think it is." The technology was developed in a garage in 1980 for less than $10,000, after all.
If they were being sold as high quality proxies, this wouldn't nearly be as big an issue. The fact is that these counterfeits are being passed off as the real thing, and that's fraud; nothing justifies that, period. That's the distinction. It's unfortunate that China (and any counterfeiter in general) doesn't recognize the importance of intellectual property rights.
As to your second point, any hobby will be expensive to someone. It's simply a fact of life that you won't be able to afford right now some of the things you want right now. Such individuals have three legal options in general: save money and enjoy the hobby later, find someone willing to give/loan you the things necessary to enjoy the hobby, or choose another hobby. It boils down to your individual priorities.
I agree that the main problem is counterfeits being passed off as the real thing. A viable solution would need to compete with the price of the counterfeits. Thus, gold-bordered alternatives would steal part of the market that counterfeits are tapping into.
Yes, any hobby will be expensive to someone. But this is the real world, where we are talking about cardboard here. If we were talking about performance vehicles or something, I would understand the cost due to the manufacturing costs. But we are not. We don't have to choose another hobby. We can print proxies or buy cheap counterfeits. Thus, if we really care about the survival of the game, it would be best if we considered viable solutions that would work in the real world.
I really think your missing Voice of Resurgence in that list
I'm taking data compiled from metamox.com from tournament results from the previous 3 weeks. Voice barely shows up, more than 100 cards down on the list. There are only 76 copies of it that shows up in those tournaments, compared to 276 for Blood Baron and a whopping 1367 for Mutavault.
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I'm guessing you're entirely ignoring my post where I responded to your similar prior claim, informing you that the cards that are being proxied include Legacy staples, like Onslaught fetches and ABUR duals (unless you know of a retailer who sells these for less than $20?). Did you not see it, or is there some reason you are purposefully ignoring this information?
EDIT: Ah, my mistake, you were referring only to the cards you are listing as the top 30 cards in Standard right now being less than $20.
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Well, this post wasn't responding to you, but rather to another poster.
Yes, they're printing Legacy staples. Some of those staples are even on the reserved list. What of it?
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WotC is the supply bottleneck. They could ease the bottleneck a bit, and maybe make large participants that are active in the secondary market upset. Or they could try to mitigate this through other means (like that new card design, etc.). At some point they will have to consider what would happen if they cannot get this under control.
As of right now, the counterfeiters are taking advantage of a market of consumers that WotC (and consequently, the secondary market) have neglected to recognize. Either way, the secondary market is in for a hit if this grows. WotC could ignore this, or take relatively minor steps to mitigate the losses of the secondary market, but the hit that the secondary market would take relies heavily on how WotC reacts.
WotC isn't getting my money as of right now anyways, because I'm not participating in the market. I rarely buy cards any more, and when I do, it's for cheap singles that are usually out of print. They can continue to do what they do, and not get my money. But these counterfeiters? They know what I want, and what I'm willing to pay for it. And from the comments on reddit, Facebook, these forums, and various other sites, I'm definitely not alone.
There are other alternative actions that WotC could take. Print gold-bordered cards, and make them so they aren't legal in sanctioned events? Sounds pretty reasonable to me. They would definitely stand to make money off of that. The amount that the originals would drop would be in proportion to how truly collectible they are. Would they drop? By how much? That tells you that the "collectible" side relies heavier on the "game" side than many are willing to admit. Most arguments I hear against the counterfeiters keep pointing out that it's a "collectible card game". I'd be interested in seeing what matters more to the Magic consumer - collecting or playing? Let's lay the money down and see
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Everything I have read says no, they fail the blacklight test.
So besides the fact that they don't feel like magic cards, and don't have a correct copyright line, they fail the easiest authenticity test for magic cards.
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We'll just have to see if this becomes a huge deal.
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How long would it take them to switch to flourescent coating/cardstock or however mtg cards are done? Do you think people could coat them in something to make them fluoresce?
I'm sorry... can someone explain this 'Black Light Test'? I been playing for years and I never heard such things.
I only just noticed this thread and never realized this is a problem but it does not shock me. I honestly always thought about counterfeit cards and wondered if someone does it.
As for how this discussion has been going I have to agree with purklefluff and thnkr in that the current case of shelling out huge amounts of currency just so that you have a fighting chance is more than a bit silly and it has created a divide between the haves and have not in terms of enjoying a game. And when a void is created, whether it is good/bad/or indifferent, something will try to fill it.
And Wildfire393 there is nothing wrong with what you are arguing about how this is wrong and that this is could hurt players. But if you remember Modern Masters (AKA Major Missfire) a good number of players did not have a good experience from that. There were a good few who on this site bragged about how they got two or more boxes and were planning to sell off the extra at extremely inflated price so that they would get their boxes for free, in a sense forcing someone else to cover the expense for them. The reason why I mention MM is because a lot of the cheap rare knock-offs appear to have been from that set. There is a possible chance that these forgers are trying to take advantage of players who desperately wanted certain cards from that set.
This game has been creeping slowly away from the fun and more to making money, If you argue that it is a "Card Collector" merchandise please remember that most try to play the game for the fun of it and it is that fun factor brings in the new players. And I can say with much confidence, and some truthful bitterness, going to a Friday night game only to get creamed because you did not pay 200+ for your deck is not fun.
If these forgers try to expand and I trust that they will try, we could start seeing them more often and what makes things worse is I kind of don't feel that upset about that. I wish I had something deep and meaningful or at least funny but I can not think up of anything, this problem is merely a symptom of how out of control the second market is at times.
Even if the only way for you to play MtG is paper magic, and the only scene around is competitive, there is little justification for devaluing cards on the secondary market through these illegal means. It's not a necessity; don't act like you can't feed your family because the secondary market prices of Magic cards are too high for your taste or your budget.
You can have fun without spending money on this game, you can play an all proxy deck with your friends at the kitchen table (I'm sorry if your proxies don't dupe your friends into believing you have authentic cards), why should we risk devaluing the authentic cards people have put time, effort, and money into acquiring?
Well do we need the second market to enjoy the game?
For me I merely went to card stores to try to play the game with other people, I honestly try to play outside of most tournaments now since I enjoy multi-player more than 1 vs 1. The only thing that the Market has done is make it easier to find cards, affording them on the other hand they have not been so helpful.
As for using these fakes versus using proxies from a printer there can be an argument of the mental aspect in which if it looks better then you would feel better about using them for your proxies. Then again I will agree with you that the creation and selling of these cards with the intention of fooling someone is wrong. But what I will say again is that this problem is tied to how the second market has been pricing cards and/or how WOTC has been supplying rare or strong cards.
As for time, effort, and money into acquiring cards you have to remember that with any investment in collectibles there is a promised loss of some kind. And I really wonder how many of these collector actually care more about being able to have more fun and interesting games instead of the ups and downs of the values of their collection. (Counterfeits aside of course, I am sure their are some who have nightmares that their treasured card is a complete fake.)
Yes, there is always a risk in investment. No, that is not an acceptable excuse for advocating or promoting counterfeit cards. Our loss of "immersion" because our proxied JTMS doesn't "pop" when we lay it on the table isn't comparable to any possible monetary loss people who have invested in the product may suffer if a significant enough amount of counterfeits are introduced into the market.
Wizards has the right to handle their product in (almost) any way they want. If we want to play their game, we pay the prices. We don't have to pay the prices and we don't have to play their game. Breaking the law is not an acceptable answer for solving any problem based in the way Wizards handles the distribution of their product.
You seem to condone using proxies when the real thing isn't within someone's budget, but disapprove when a source for high quality proxies comes along.
There is another way to look at it. I've already started using proxies, for quite some time now. I haven't paid these counterfeiters any money (yet), but my money for proxies has gone to my local internet company and the manufacturer of the ink for my printer. Essentially, I'm paying two companies for counterfeit cards - I'm just doing the work. And it's all for personal use. That's money WotC is losing out on. These counterfeits are nearly equivalent in the price that I pay for the equal internet and ink that I need to print the same cards, but much higher in quality.
WotC doesn't seem to mind people using proxies for personal use. As far as I"m concerned, I'd be willing to buy high quality proxies from someone else, rather than buy the ink to make them myself. Either way, WotC wasn't going to get my money because of their own mistakes and the mistakes made by speculators in the secondary market.
See, I can play their game without paying those prices.
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
A.) These could be the best counterfeits we have yet to see
B.) There is an upcoming format change
These counterfeits might actually be worth something in the future, not as legitimate playing cards but for the fact that they are very well made fake ones. So for all we know some collectors might be saying in years to come "Hey check out these rare high quality forgeries I managed to collect." A well made fake that can fool someone can have value in of itself. All that matters is how much infamy this line of counterfeits becomes and how many people hold on to these fakes.
POst pictures, it should be pretty apparent if they are but you can't be too safe with all the stuff running around. I've heard stories of weird things happening with how MTG cards circulate and how people don't want to be the ones stuck with the fakes.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: The biggest buyers of new, sealed Magic product (the only product that WotC profits from) are online internet dealers; many of whom will open the product for singles sales. Take away the secondary market and it no longer makes sense for them to purchase so much product; thereby making Magic not as profitable for WotC/Hasbro which could lead to anything from an overall lower quality game or a discontinuation of the line.
And such is the great cosmic joke of collectible gaming; collectibility is required to make the game profitable and yet collectibility has nothing to do with one's skill at the game. After all...if someone wins a tournament with a counterfeit Tarmogoyf in their deck does that make them a worse player?
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And as for the whole "you don't NEED to play the game, you don't NEED to spend this money"; no, we don't need to... but it's a friggin GAME. Its an enjoyable hobby. We WANT to spend the money, but we can't because we don't make enough. As a 19 year old college student, I make $8.70 an hour. That means after taxes, it would take me 3 weeks of work- at 40 hours a week (I work part time)- 3 weeks of not spending a single cent on food, rent, or anything else. Then I'd have 600 for a playset of 'Goyfs. I'd rather spend $4 bucks on a nice play set of fake 'Goyfs so I can actually enjoy the game with friends. Oh, and I'd be able to eat while I'm at it.
~X
Warning for censor evasion.
-Sene
If they were being sold as high quality proxies, this wouldn't nearly be as big an issue. The fact is that these counterfeits are being passed off as the real thing, and that's fraud; nothing justifies that, period. That's the distinction. It's unfortunate that China (and any counterfeiter in general) doesn't recognize the importance of intellectual property rights.
As to your second point, any hobby will be expensive to someone. It's simply a fact of life that you won't be able to afford right now some of the things you want right now. Such individuals have three legal options in general: save money and enjoy the hobby later, find someone willing to give/loan you the things necessary to enjoy the hobby, or choose another hobby. It boils down to your individual priorities.
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I think you can, just try to get close up with the top and bottom text.
The simple answer to your 2nd question is: "Because it will make the consumer *feel* more secure."
The 1st question doesn't have a simple answer, other than "The process is much cheaper than you think it is." The technology was developed in a garage in 1980 for less than $10,000, after all.
If you REALLY want to educate yourself on the matter, start by reading this:
http://www.nli-ltd.com/publications/hologram_counterfeiting.php
I agree that the main problem is counterfeits being passed off as the real thing. A viable solution would need to compete with the price of the counterfeits. Thus, gold-bordered alternatives would steal part of the market that counterfeits are tapping into.
Yes, any hobby will be expensive to someone. But this is the real world, where we are talking about cardboard here. If we were talking about performance vehicles or something, I would understand the cost due to the manufacturing costs. But we are not. We don't have to choose another hobby. We can print proxies or buy cheap counterfeits. Thus, if we really care about the survival of the game, it would be best if we considered viable solutions that would work in the real world.
Lantern Control
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Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
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