This is serious. I've been doing lots of research and I don't know about you... I think we need people here to know these links and see them. I won't do it... Might upset some but apparently there might be a couple different grades of stock involved if sold from different sources making illegal copies. This will make altered art possibly tournament unplayable now too. I've yet to see them in hand and consider myself a stickler when it comes to fake cardboard. If you think it won't ruin value (pending how well done they are) google search "star basketball" cards made from 83-84 to 85-86. PSA and Beckett just recently started grading these again after a 20 year hiatus. Star sportscards had a bankruptcy issue, thus the owner used printing plates to make cards again in the 1990 range as original cards from 80s. It tanked the market on Jordan's and all the classic 80s HOF's.
I see most people could PROB tell but maybe not the altered art if painted over the trademark and sealing card stock with krylon matte (as I do ).
Also EVERYONE posting him and getting stacks of cards most are interested in what seems to ruin the market. Calling him a "godsend" and asking him to correct font issues then they'll glady buy.
I know, But think about if the card and stock are "altered" on a fake...how nearly impossible it would be to tell. ??? I'm not sure light test work when you paint and seal a card with matte spray. That's just the little tidbit of the issue ... These are gonna come around and in abundance from the posts I've seen. I would also stay away from anyone whom isn't a dealer and or ask for scans of every card if trading online.
I fail to see how "for the enjoyment game" justifies the possibility of undermining the value of cards on the secondary market. These are not high-quality proxies made by individuals for their own use, these are counterfeits that may be passed along as authentic.
Even if the only way for you to play MtG is paper magic, and the only scene around is competitive, there is little justification for devaluing cards on the secondary market through these illegal means. It's not a necessity; don't act like you can't feed your family because the secondary market prices of Magic cards are too high for your taste or your budget.
You can have fun without spending money on this game, you can play an all proxy deck with your friends at the kitchen table (I'm sorry if your proxies don't dupe your friends into believing you have authentic cards), why should we risk devaluing the authentic cards people have put time, effort, and money into acquiring?
The secondary market needs to be hamstrung; this is coming from someone who happily bought his Bayous, Badlands, and Savannahs in NM condition. I'm fortunate to be able to afford these for what's really a horrible deck (5 Color Invasion Dragon Legends). I agree that a responsible individual shouldn't put their chase cards befoe their family or wellbeing. It's just that preserving a secondary market for a trading card game sounds silly.
I'm more concerned about the presence of counterfeits hurting the illustrators, dev and creative teams. That'd be why I don't buy the counterfeit cards.
The answer is that WOTC must print high quality proxies of the high dollar staples. If they don't, this will happen with more and more frequency, until Paper MTG is no longer a viable product.
This discussion about how people can't believe that cards are becoming so valuable high quality counterfeits are entering the market is a little confusing. A 1952 Mickey Mantle baseball card is valued at around $280,000, but no one bats an eye. A Magic card hits $100, and all of a sudden the sky is falling, cards are too expensive, and counterfeits abound!
No one is saying you have to have 'Goyfs to play Magic, or Mickey Mantles in order to collect baseball cards, but do people really feel like they deserve these cards to the point they're borderline supporting the counterfeiters?
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EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
By supporting the counterfeits people will look to make a dishonest dollar anyway possible, which in turn... When burned like this... You're apt to develop a hatred an quit playing.
Sad
As a side note little off topic...
280,000 $ for 52 topps mantle is a high grade Mantle. Psa 1 can be had for around 2,000$. I believe a gem mint 10 sold for a million years ago. Supply is low n demand is lowering after the baby boomers pass on collections. Just invest in silver age comics! Always a demand as our kids kids ect will know and love Spider-Man. Better than stocks!:thumbsup:
Going forward, would Wizards be able to leverage the MTGO entity to legitimize the paper cards? Some sort of code-based link that would guarantee that what you're looking at is yours and made by Wizards only?
I'm shooting wildly there. I haven't really thought that through very far.
A quick comment on the current price of playing magic. the reason tournament magic is so expensive is the "new world order" of magic design, as the power level of cards has shifted up the rarity scale the price of playing legitimate decks has also risen. wotc has been pretty explicit in stating that rare and mythic are where the powerful cards ought to be printed at. they argue complexity should increase with rarity and this is all well and good for limited play but it also has increased the financial hurdles for playing constructed. more product itself (counterfeiting or mass printings) is not the answer to our owes (and, as other posters have noted, would endanger the entire magic economy), the true "release valve" for the market- in standard at least- would be to print more powerful/complex cards at lower rarities. Obviously the game would need to maintain the meaning of rarity, but R&D has pushed the power level too far up the rarity scale.
You know, if these are as good as people say they are, i would be interested in them as proxies, esp for cube. I know that a link is probably not allowed to be posted for various reasons, but if someone could PM it to me, i would be gratefull. (are there multiple variants of these, multiple people selling them, each with it's own degree of similarity to the originals? )Thanks!
I'm going to close this now, otherwise this'll just be a neverending heated debate about card prices & reserve list, and based on how the thread in Magic General went, it's not going to end well.
I see most people could PROB tell but maybe not the altered art if painted over the trademark and sealing card stock with krylon matte (as I do ).
Also EVERYONE posting him and getting stacks of cards most are interested in what seems to ruin the market. Calling him a "godsend" and asking him to correct font issues then they'll glady buy.
EDH/Commander: Karn silver golem (foiled), Narset combo, Maelstrom Wanderer random goodies, Nekusar grixis draw stuff, freyalise, Gissa Zombies!, marchesa obliterate,
Prosh just wins!,
--- Will WOTC just visit Cybertron already! ----
EDH/Commander: Karn silver golem (foiled), Narset combo, Maelstrom Wanderer random goodies, Nekusar grixis draw stuff, freyalise, Gissa Zombies!, marchesa obliterate,
Prosh just wins!,
--- Will WOTC just visit Cybertron already! ----
The secondary market needs to be hamstrung; this is coming from someone who happily bought his Bayous, Badlands, and Savannahs in NM condition. I'm fortunate to be able to afford these for what's really a horrible deck (5 Color Invasion Dragon Legends). I agree that a responsible individual shouldn't put their chase cards befoe their family or wellbeing. It's just that preserving a secondary market for a trading card game sounds silly.
I'm more concerned about the presence of counterfeits hurting the illustrators, dev and creative teams. That'd be why I don't buy the counterfeit cards.
No one is saying you have to have 'Goyfs to play Magic, or Mickey Mantles in order to collect baseball cards, but do people really feel like they deserve these cards to the point they're borderline supporting the counterfeiters?
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Sad
As a side note little off topic...
280,000 $ for 52 topps mantle is a high grade Mantle. Psa 1 can be had for around 2,000$. I believe a gem mint 10 sold for a million years ago. Supply is low n demand is lowering after the baby boomers pass on collections. Just invest in silver age comics! Always a demand as our kids kids ect will know and love Spider-Man. Better than stocks!:thumbsup:
EDH/Commander: Karn silver golem (foiled), Narset combo, Maelstrom Wanderer random goodies, Nekusar grixis draw stuff, freyalise, Gissa Zombies!, marchesa obliterate,
Prosh just wins!,
--- Will WOTC just visit Cybertron already! ----
I'm shooting wildly there. I haven't really thought that through very far.
Etali, Primal Storm EDH
For more information about this subject, I recommend Chas Andres' article.
Thanks.