This has been stated almost literaly a billion times before.And 10 whos to be exact.I'm guessing the playtest groups are made up of 10 people.
Agreed, but it is worth repeating a billion times when discussing the situation. A lot of people, especially those that are just now finding out about the entire situation, don't seem to realize this at first. They see the situation in extreme black and white - Rancored Elf makes spoiler post, and Wizards sues him. They don't tend to look beyond that.
This isn't about censorship, though! Censorship would mean that RE had a right to do what he did - and he didn't.
No not totally it is about someone getting ahold of some prototype cards and R_E posting them.... but if they are gonna tell R_E that he can't ever talk about magic cards even current ones...well don't you think that starts to get into the realm of censorship? Sure they may have some legal right to do that but the internet is built on the free movement of information (and porn but that is a bit off target), We have to be careful here because if they let hasbro win with no fights it could start the who slippery slope business.... You can't talk about a product with out express premission of the company. Then you get an internet full of commercials....
True most of that is pretty far stretch. But I was just suggesting some ways that R_E could come out with his shirt.
uhh, they do know john doe 1-10. there just naming names for the public. Imagine us protecting 11, not one
No, I do believe if they knew who the John Does were, their names would have to be included in the actual lawsuit for any sort of effect to fall on them.
Username: They can't, technically. But the aim, or at least part of the aim, is to put names to the John Does. I'm not sure of the exact process, but I do believe the John Does are simply being used as placeholders until the real identities are discovered/revealed.
Username: They can't, technically. But the aim, or at least part of the aim, is to put names to the John Does. I'm not sure of the exact process, but I do believe the John Does are simply being used as placeholders until the real identities are discovered/revealed.
I think that's right. I believe that the 9th Circuit (which contains Washington) requires the plaintiff to name "John Does" as placeholders for defendants whose identities are unknown, if the plaintiff wants the right to join them to the lawsuit when their identities are discovered.
No not totally it is about someone getting ahold of some prototype cards and R_E posting them.... but if they are gonna tell R_E that he can't ever talk about magic cards even current ones...well don't you think that starts to get into the realm of censorship? Sure they may have some legal right to do that but the internet is built on the free movement of information (and porn but that is a bit off target), We have to be careful here because if they let hasbro win with no fights it could start the who slippery slope business.... You can't talk about a product with out express premission of the company. Then you get an internet full of commercials....
True most of that is pretty far stretch. But I was just suggesting some ways that R_E could come out with his shirt.
Well, here's the thing. It's not unlawful detainment when we imprison car thieves. Ultimately, the societal contract that most people live under (as much as they do) starts and ends with a general attitude of 'here are your rights, as long as you don't give them up'. Breaking the law removes your rights. Commit a felony and suddenly, you're not allowed to vote.
That might well be a greater issue than this one.
In the end, if Daron's found guilty, as outrageous as it sounds, it's not ridiculous to ban him from mentioning these things, ever - it's not censorship because his right to free speech was invalidated when he chose to do something unlawful.
Breaking the law removes your rights. Commit a felony and suddenly, you're not allowed to vote.
That's actually not the case everywhere.
Quote from Talen Lee »
In the end, if Daron's found guilty, as outrageous as it sounds, it's not ridiculous to ban him from mentioning these things, ever - it's not censorship because his right to free speech was invalidated when he chose to do something unlawful.
Free speech is a constitutional right. Voting is not. Agreeing not to talk about cards could be part of a settlement of the case, or perhaps offered by the judge as an alternative to paying statutory damages, but I don't think it could legally be forced on R_E.
If discussion of cards that have been released to the public is not infringing, then I don't think R_E could be banned from discussing them as punishment.
By the way, I'm not saying that it's completely fine for a judge to bar him from ever discussing cards, or that it's even that likely to happen. But claiming that they couldn't under the idea that it's somehow censoring art is just a bit fruity to me.
Does the American bill of rights apply to a Canadian citizen, though? They might have Daron coming and going.
They wanted to put and end to it quickly to "protect" their property.
Understandable.
Way they went around it to get it done.... Not sure myself, but their mistake.
Too all the time the "lawyers" have spent answering questions, Thank You!
Too all the people who keep this thread going (including me), Go play some casual magic with an all common deck. Trust me its a lot more fun than reading this D*** thread.....:-/
Who knows... you might be a little happier with WotC for making a great game.
As for me I am planning on opening a store real soon. (brick and mortar)
I will be buying cards and packs because my love of the game has not diminished over the years.
And as for the "spoilers" They will go on. Wizards will not stop the spoilers for the newest set to be coming out within reason of time before the set... Probably 1 month time...
My opinion on spoilers... I think they are good. Do i agree with a spoiler, not on the whole. Release enough cards to wet appetite but i like to have a bit of surprise when i open a pack. But then again I wasnt happy about homelands, fallen empires, and weatherlight when i opened the packs without knowing what was in them.:mad: God the good ol' days....:D
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"My record, on the record, clearly shows that I have no off the record, record. Make a record of that!" -Chief Sterns
By the way, I'm not saying that it's completely fine for a judge to bar him from ever discussing cards, or that it's even that likely to happen. But claiming that they couldn't under the idea that it's somehow censoring art is just a bit fruity to me.
But that may be part of the key to getting part of this lawsuit settled. Daron did wrong in posting prototype cards. That was wizards big issue. It's very much along the lines of taking a video camera to the movies and then posting the film online.
Here is the thing I want to see my rights protected whenever possible. IF they ban him from discussing something well does that mean they can later ban me or you too? (In that same light some of the that whole patriot act scares the crap out of me, When have you ever know government to willingly give up powers that they aquire?)
Censorship, little guy vs corprate bad guys, these are things that I would be using to cloud the issue and help Daron get simpathy in the courts of public opion. The truth is he overstep his bounds and got has toes chopped off for it... But don't you think he has suffered enough? Man as a father and family man myself I could see him agonizing over this daily. I think that the whole magic community has learned a lesson. Give him a slap on the wrist. Encourage him to get out of the spoiler business. And move on. Win/win for everyone.
Daron by the way has of course given up any info on John Does (if he has a brain in his head). I would have too in the same spot. He won't be getting any more tips either. No one will trust him to keep their identity secert after this. (even if he doesn't tell). So basically he has already been put out of business when it comes to spoilers anyway.
Free speech is a constitutional right. Voting is not.
Since you used the word "constitutional" I'm assuming you're referring to the United States Constitution. If that is accurate, then I must ask you how old you are and whether you have taken and passed the required Constitution test? There are no less than six Constitutional Amendments that guarantee the right to vote.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
By the way, I'm not saying that it's completely fine for a judge to bar him from ever discussing cards, or that it's even that likely to happen. But claiming that they couldn't under the idea that it's somehow censoring art is just a bit fruity to me.
I think that you have some false impression about what censorship is. The foundation of censorship lies on the fact that what is being removed or suppressed is a valid form of media to begin with. The RIAA suing for removal of copyrighted MP3’s on your website is NOT censorship. The record industry or government forcing a recording artist to remove a song or lines from a song IS censorship.
The whole premise behind copyright is that information is not a free-for-all concept. Some ideas, works of art as it were, should be protected.
Judges routinely issue gag orders that prevent defendants from discussing matters regarding the case. But as I and a million other people have said, I think this is really about shutting down the leaks at Wizards, and Daron is just to fall-guy. It is really not all about him, he is just the test case that will reveal Wizards new stance on unauthorized release of confidential information.
Quote from Knight_man »
And as for the "spoilers" They will go on. Wizards will not stop the spoilers for the newest set to be coming out within reason of time before the set... Probably 1 month time...
The language used in the lawsuit seems quite the contrary. Wizards seems intent on shutting down all unauthorized spoilers. If Wizards finds the people who have been leaking the information and fires them, then who will be left to give out the spoilers for the new sets? Do you really think that Hasbro employees will risk it after seeing 10 of their fellow workers fired? Also, do you think people will risk posting the information after what happened to Daron? Do you think that MTGS and MTGNews will risk violating possible C&D orders?
Quote from Knight_man »
My opinion on spoilers... I think they are good. Do i agree with a spoiler, not on the whole. Release enough cards to wet appetite but i like to have a bit of surprise when i open a pack.
Wizards already does this. There are official releases and leaks of new cards by Wizards themselves. Their advertising people are fully capable of creating hype over a new set without unofficial spoilers. I keep asking the question: What is the real difference between seeing the full spoiler the week of the pre-release and seeing it 2-4 weeks before the pre-release?
Quote from taliorn »
Here is the thing I want to see my rights protected whenever possible. IF they ban him from discussing something well does that mean they can later ban me or you too?
Remember the doctrine of Fair-Use. Once Wizards releases an official spoiler, or posts a news article on their own site with prototype pictures, or whatever, you can not be stopped from talking about it, posting the text, etc. The only case where another individual could be stopped from talking about something is if Wizards took them to court and got another gag order. This would probably be a situation where another person started posting spoiler information, and Wizards sued them as well. Again, the idea is, if you don’t want to get sued, don’t do anything illegal.
Quote from Taliorn »
I think that the whole magic community has learned a lesson. Give him a slap on the wrist. Encourage him to get out of the spoiler business. And move on. Win/win for everyone.
Daron by the way has of course given up any info on John Does (if he has a brain in his head). I would have too in the same spot. He won't be getting any more tips either. No one will trust him to keep their identity secert after this. (even if he doesn't tell). So basically he has already been put out of business when it comes to spoilers anyway.
The first statement is really dependant on your second statement. If he helps Wizards find the John Does, I say give him a slap on the wrist, issue him a C&D, and a gag-order or whatever they want. Put the word out, and let the community know what is and is not acceptable. Give people time to get their act together, and then move on. If Wizards does not want any spoilers at all, then they need to say it, so we all know. If Wizards does not want people using any card images without permission, let us know. If Wizards has a list of certain acceptable uses of their copyrighted material, just let us know. Then we can all say someone had it coming if he violated one of their rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_man And as for the "spoilers" They will go on. Wizards will not stop the spoilers for the newest set to be coming out within reason of time before the set... Probably 1 month time...
The language used in the lawsuit seems quite the contrary. Wizards seems intent on shutting down all unauthorized spoilers. If Wizards finds the people who have been leaking the information and fires them, then who will be left to give out the spoilers for the new sets? Do you really think that Hasbro employees will risk it after seeing 10 of their fellow workers fired? Also, do you think people will risk posting the information after what happened to Daron? Do you think that MTGS and MTGNews will risk violating possible C&D orders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_man My opinion on spoilers... I think they are good. Do i agree with a spoiler, not on the whole. Release enough cards to wet appetite but i like to have a bit of surprise when i open a pack.
Wizards already does this. There are official releases and leaks of new cards by Wizards themselves. Their advertising people are fully capable of creating hype over a new set without unofficial spoilers. I keep asking the question: What is the real difference between seeing the full spoiler the week of the pre-release and seeing it 2-4 weeks before the pre-release?
I was just trying to state what you said but it came out wrong. i just think that wizards should do a few more than what they normally do. they will only allow spoilers on these sites only if the card hs been released through media printings.
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"My record, on the record, clearly shows that I have no off the record, record. Make a record of that!" -Chief Sterns
f Daron is found guilty, he'll lose out 120 grand right. (after interest and other fees.)
If this happens, the site could arrange a facility whereby the members of the MTG community could donate 10 bucks.
It would help the man big time.
I’m not sure that people would want to do this. If he is found guilty, why should we pay for his mistake? Personaly I don’t want to see the man ruined, and I would help out if it came down to 120K fine. But, you must realize that there are people out there who might just see Daron as a criminal who broke the law, and have no interest in helping a criminal avoid what he had coming.
Quote from Oreth_The_Centaur »
But more importantly, it would show the scumbags in Hasbro's legal department that we will not be beaten.
So you support the braking of the law? If I broke into Hasbro and tried to steal some new cards, and got arrested for breaking-and-entering, would you help pay my fines? I don’t understand the phrase ‘we will not be beaten’. What exactly do you mean by this?
Quote from Oreth_The_Centaur »
As so many wise people have already said, it's our game.
Hrm, funny… I looked at the bottom of my magic cards, and it didn’t say copyright 2005 Oreth The Centaur. People who play Magic the Gathering comprise a community of game players that all have different characteristics. The ‘game’ you claim is ‘ours’ might be looked upon totally differently by some other members of the community. You seem to be acting like some spokesman for the magic community as a whole. I am fine with Wizards doing what they are doing, so does that mean I am not a member of ‘our’ community?
Quote from Knight_man »
was just trying to state what you said but it came out wrong. i just think that wizards should do a few more than what they normally do. they will only allow spoilers on these sites only if the card hs been released through media printings.
Right, once they release official information, people are pretty much free to do with it what they will, as long as they don’t exceed the boundaries of Fair-Use. I really hope that Wizards makes it clear to all of us what it will and will not tolerate, because I would hate to see anymore people have to go through what Daron is going through.
I said no more quote-games. There is no need to comment every word in this thread.
Quote from MillMaster »
But, you must realize that there are people out there who might just see Daron as a criminal who broke the law, and have no interest in helping a criminal avoid what he had coming.
You seem to be acting like some spokesman for the magic community as a whole.
Since you used the word "constitutional" I'm assuming you're referring to the United States Constitution. If that is accurate, then I must ask you how old you are and whether you have taken and passed the required Constitution test? There are no less than six Constitutional Amendments that guarantee the right to vote.
You're just wrong. In the United States Constitution, there is no affirmative right to vote. The amendments you speak of prevent discrimination relating to voting rights, such as the 15th Amendment's guaranteeing that voting rigths "shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
The actual right to vote, however, is guaranteed and implemented at the state level only. This is why Florida can prevent felons from voting, while other jurisdictions allow felons to vote.
This is also why there is a movement to amend the Constitution so that voting rights WILL be affirmatively guaranteed by the Constitution.
Also, thanks for the snarky tone with regard to an issue you clearly don't know all that much about.
as far as i'm concerned, American copyright law can burn in hell. It was set up deliberitly to screw the poor man.
I think this is quite funny, considering the large community of artists like writers and painters who not only tend to be poor but would most certainly never make any money from their work if other's could copy it as they pleased.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
In Iraq, during Saddam's reign, most of the things I take for granted were illegal. The law is established by those in power to stay in power.
I think that comparing Wizards to Saddam is going a bit overboard here. I also think you'd have a hard time saying that, say, a law against rape is all about maintaining the status quo and has nothing to do with justice.
The arguments in favor of copyright law have been expressed numerous times in the thread, so I won't repeat them. However, I'll add that if you like reading books or watching movies, you should probably thank copyright law. If people couldn't profit from creative endeavors such as writing, filmmaking, and publishing dorky card games, it would be pretty difficult for people to justify spending time on those pursuits. Doing it strictly because you love it is all well and good, but it doesn't help you get food or shelter.
Quote from Oreth The Centaur »
R_E is a modern day Robin Hood.
This has been covered quite a bit, so I don't want to rehash too much of what I've already said.
Robin Hood stole from the rich to feed the poor. I don't think spoilers are helping anyone survive. We have no right to spoilers. It's not "our game." Not only that, it's RIGHT that it's not our game. We didn't make it; we just play it. To the extent that we buy cards and so forth, we can talk about them and play how we like and so forth. Absolutley none of this confers a right to know about cards that haven't come out, infringe on copyrights, and on and on.
I would agree Kraj. Claiming that R_E is some sort of Robin Hood is so wrong on so many levels. I just don’t understand where this kind of venom comes from. Most of the people I converse with on MTG boards tend to either feel that R_E had it coming, since he was violating the law or that regardless of law R_E should not be prosecuted. In the case of Oreth, he seems to be advocating total anarchy just because he doesn’t like what happened. I would point out that many people who have posted here have a slightly different attitude of ‘total support’ while ignoring the facts, etc. I think Oreth is just an American hater, who is using this forum to express those views.
@Hannes:
Are you saying you don’t want me to quote the posts I am responding to anymore? I normally do this so people reading can have some sort of context to bases my responses on. I’m normally responding to like 3 or 4 different people at a time, and the thread grows so fast it is hard for people to go back and look at exactly what I am talking about. Yeah most of my posts are much longer than other people, but it seems to be the only way when I am trying to have a dialogue with 6 or 7 different people at a time….
Sorry if I offended….
I think it's funny how there are people who's sole reason for being members of Salvation appearently is to watch this thread and respond to and shoot down anyone posting who supports Daron.
Get a life guys.
There is a whole big community here and lots to see, read and do. Just because someone happens to disagree with you position on this issue doesn't mean you have to obsess about it.
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Why is someone whos Irish bringing up Iraq?Does that even make sense?Should i even point out what country brought him too...how do i put this since "justice" is a concept,not something anyone can truly claim to know.
(For the record i dislike or current president.)
No one can claim their country is good.Because its a concept.If someone does something to you and you thinks is bad.If you killed someones family for some reason and then they tried to kill you,are they evil for trying to kill you?Some would say yes,stateing that violence is wrong on every front.Others would say no,stateing that said person has a right to claim vengence.Whats the right answer?Who friggin knows.
Is i wrong that their women have to cover their bodies except for their eyes?Not really,they've been doing it for many many many year.Is it strange?Some would say yes,i for one find it kinda odd.But it's not my country.I can't tell them what to do.
Futher more why would Daron be tried in a Canadian court.He hasen't broken any laws their.That makes zero sense.What about that the kid (hes an adult now) who got caned in Singapoure.(i probably spelled it horribly wrong,and if its the wrong country i appologize) Why would he be brought to court in American?He didn't put graffiti on a wall in America.Most Americans thought he got what he deserved.
So just saying our country is evil,though seemingly so,is ridiculous as every country has its evils.No one person or country is good.Because someother country will disagree with it.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Are you saying you don’t want me to quote the posts I am responding to anymore? I normally do this so people reading can have some sort of context to bases my responses on. I’m normally responding to like 3 or 4 different people at a time, and the thread grows so fast it is hard for people to go back and look at exactly what I am talking about. Yeah most of my posts are much longer than other people, but it seems to be the only way when I am trying to have a dialogue with 6 or 7 different people at a time….
Sorry if I offended….
I want this thread to stop growing. And having this huge posts with 50 quotes in it doesn't help anything. This thread isn't about convincing other people that you are right, it's about discussion r_e's update about the lawsuit. Adding your opinion, then moving on. There is no prize to win here. Either stop it now or I'll close it.
Oh my god this is post #666. If this isn't a sign.
This has been stated almost literaly a billion times before.And 10 whos to be exact.I'm guessing the playtest groups are made up of 10 people.
This is american,even if he wasn't getting sue,80% of the population would see it that way anyway.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Starcity Games Featured Writer
Let this be our mantra – "There is more to the world than me.”
Agreed, but it is worth repeating a billion times when discussing the situation. A lot of people, especially those that are just now finding out about the entire situation, don't seem to realize this at first. They see the situation in extreme black and white - Rancored Elf makes spoiler post, and Wizards sues him. They don't tend to look beyond that.
No not totally it is about someone getting ahold of some prototype cards and R_E posting them.... but if they are gonna tell R_E that he can't ever talk about magic cards even current ones...well don't you think that starts to get into the realm of censorship? Sure they may have some legal right to do that but the internet is built on the free movement of information (and porn but that is a bit off target), We have to be careful here because if they let hasbro win with no fights it could start the who slippery slope business.... You can't talk about a product with out express premission of the company. Then you get an internet full of commercials....
True most of that is pretty far stretch. But I was just suggesting some ways that R_E could come out with his shirt.
No, I do believe if they knew who the John Does were, their names would have to be included in the actual lawsuit for any sort of effect to fall on them.
Username: They can't, technically. But the aim, or at least part of the aim, is to put names to the John Does. I'm not sure of the exact process, but I do believe the John Does are simply being used as placeholders until the real identities are discovered/revealed.
That might well be a greater issue than this one.
In the end, if Daron's found guilty, as outrageous as it sounds, it's not ridiculous to ban him from mentioning these things, ever - it's not censorship because his right to free speech was invalidated when he chose to do something unlawful.
Starcity Games Featured Writer
Let this be our mantra – "There is more to the world than me.”
That's actually not the case everywhere.
Free speech is a constitutional right. Voting is not. Agreeing not to talk about cards could be part of a settlement of the case, or perhaps offered by the judge as an alternative to paying statutory damages, but I don't think it could legally be forced on R_E.
If discussion of cards that have been released to the public is not infringing, then I don't think R_E could be banned from discussing them as punishment.
C
Does the American bill of rights apply to a Canadian citizen, though? They might have Daron coming and going.
Starcity Games Featured Writer
Let this be our mantra – "There is more to the world than me.”
Daron good luck, your gonna need it!
What Daron did was "illegal" in WotCs' eyes.
They wanted to put and end to it quickly to "protect" their property.
Understandable.
Way they went around it to get it done.... Not sure myself, but their mistake.
Too all the time the "lawyers" have spent answering questions, Thank You!
Too all the people who keep this thread going (including me), Go play some casual magic with an all common deck. Trust me its a lot more fun than reading this D*** thread.....:-/
Who knows... you might be a little happier with WotC for making a great game.
As for me I am planning on opening a store real soon. (brick and mortar)
I will be buying cards and packs because my love of the game has not diminished over the years.
And as for the "spoilers" They will go on. Wizards will not stop the spoilers for the newest set to be coming out within reason of time before the set... Probably 1 month time...
My opinion on spoilers... I think they are good. Do i agree with a spoiler, not on the whole. Release enough cards to wet appetite but i like to have a bit of surprise when i open a pack. But then again I wasnt happy about homelands, fallen empires, and weatherlight when i opened the packs without knowing what was in them.:mad: God the good ol' days....:D
But that may be part of the key to getting part of this lawsuit settled. Daron did wrong in posting prototype cards. That was wizards big issue. It's very much along the lines of taking a video camera to the movies and then posting the film online.
Here is the thing I want to see my rights protected whenever possible. IF they ban him from discussing something well does that mean they can later ban me or you too? (In that same light some of the that whole patriot act scares the crap out of me, When have you ever know government to willingly give up powers that they aquire?)
Censorship, little guy vs corprate bad guys, these are things that I would be using to cloud the issue and help Daron get simpathy in the courts of public opion. The truth is he overstep his bounds and got has toes chopped off for it... But don't you think he has suffered enough? Man as a father and family man myself I could see him agonizing over this daily. I think that the whole magic community has learned a lesson. Give him a slap on the wrist. Encourage him to get out of the spoiler business. And move on. Win/win for everyone.
Daron by the way has of course given up any info on John Does (if he has a brain in his head). I would have too in the same spot. He won't be getting any more tips either. No one will trust him to keep their identity secert after this. (even if he doesn't tell). So basically he has already been put out of business when it comes to spoilers anyway.
Since you used the word "constitutional" I'm assuming you're referring to the United States Constitution. If that is accurate, then I must ask you how old you are and whether you have taken and passed the required Constitution test? There are no less than six Constitutional Amendments that guarantee the right to vote.
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She knows why.
I think that you have some false impression about what censorship is. The foundation of censorship lies on the fact that what is being removed or suppressed is a valid form of media to begin with. The RIAA suing for removal of copyrighted MP3’s on your website is NOT censorship. The record industry or government forcing a recording artist to remove a song or lines from a song IS censorship.
The whole premise behind copyright is that information is not a free-for-all concept. Some ideas, works of art as it were, should be protected.
Judges routinely issue gag orders that prevent defendants from discussing matters regarding the case. But as I and a million other people have said, I think this is really about shutting down the leaks at Wizards, and Daron is just to fall-guy. It is really not all about him, he is just the test case that will reveal Wizards new stance on unauthorized release of confidential information.
The language used in the lawsuit seems quite the contrary. Wizards seems intent on shutting down all unauthorized spoilers. If Wizards finds the people who have been leaking the information and fires them, then who will be left to give out the spoilers for the new sets? Do you really think that Hasbro employees will risk it after seeing 10 of their fellow workers fired? Also, do you think people will risk posting the information after what happened to Daron? Do you think that MTGS and MTGNews will risk violating possible C&D orders?
Wizards already does this. There are official releases and leaks of new cards by Wizards themselves. Their advertising people are fully capable of creating hype over a new set without unofficial spoilers. I keep asking the question: What is the real difference between seeing the full spoiler the week of the pre-release and seeing it 2-4 weeks before the pre-release?
Remember the doctrine of Fair-Use. Once Wizards releases an official spoiler, or posts a news article on their own site with prototype pictures, or whatever, you can not be stopped from talking about it, posting the text, etc. The only case where another individual could be stopped from talking about something is if Wizards took them to court and got another gag order. This would probably be a situation where another person started posting spoiler information, and Wizards sued them as well. Again, the idea is, if you don’t want to get sued, don’t do anything illegal.
The first statement is really dependant on your second statement. If he helps Wizards find the John Does, I say give him a slap on the wrist, issue him a C&D, and a gag-order or whatever they want. Put the word out, and let the community know what is and is not acceptable. Give people time to get their act together, and then move on. If Wizards does not want any spoilers at all, then they need to say it, so we all know. If Wizards does not want people using any card images without permission, let us know. If Wizards has a list of certain acceptable uses of their copyrighted material, just let us know. Then we can all say someone had it coming if he violated one of their rules.
Originally Posted by Knight_man
And as for the "spoilers" They will go on. Wizards will not stop the spoilers for the newest set to be coming out within reason of time before the set... Probably 1 month time...
The language used in the lawsuit seems quite the contrary. Wizards seems intent on shutting down all unauthorized spoilers. If Wizards finds the people who have been leaking the information and fires them, then who will be left to give out the spoilers for the new sets? Do you really think that Hasbro employees will risk it after seeing 10 of their fellow workers fired? Also, do you think people will risk posting the information after what happened to Daron? Do you think that MTGS and MTGNews will risk violating possible C&D orders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_man
My opinion on spoilers... I think they are good. Do i agree with a spoiler, not on the whole. Release enough cards to wet appetite but i like to have a bit of surprise when i open a pack.
Wizards already does this. There are official releases and leaks of new cards by Wizards themselves. Their advertising people are fully capable of creating hype over a new set without unofficial spoilers. I keep asking the question: What is the real difference between seeing the full spoiler the week of the pre-release and seeing it 2-4 weeks before the pre-release?
I was just trying to state what you said but it came out wrong. i just think that wizards should do a few more than what they normally do. they will only allow spoilers on these sites only if the card hs been released through media printings.
I’m not sure that people would want to do this. If he is found guilty, why should we pay for his mistake? Personaly I don’t want to see the man ruined, and I would help out if it came down to 120K fine. But, you must realize that there are people out there who might just see Daron as a criminal who broke the law, and have no interest in helping a criminal avoid what he had coming.
So you support the braking of the law? If I broke into Hasbro and tried to steal some new cards, and got arrested for breaking-and-entering, would you help pay my fines? I don’t understand the phrase ‘we will not be beaten’. What exactly do you mean by this?
Hrm, funny… I looked at the bottom of my magic cards, and it didn’t say copyright 2005 Oreth The Centaur. People who play Magic the Gathering comprise a community of game players that all have different characteristics. The ‘game’ you claim is ‘ours’ might be looked upon totally differently by some other members of the community. You seem to be acting like some spokesman for the magic community as a whole. I am fine with Wizards doing what they are doing, so does that mean I am not a member of ‘our’ community?
Right, once they release official information, people are pretty much free to do with it what they will, as long as they don’t exceed the boundaries of Fair-Use. I really hope that Wizards makes it clear to all of us what it will and will not tolerate, because I would hate to see anymore people have to go through what Daron is going through.
No.
You're just wrong. In the United States Constitution, there is no affirmative right to vote. The amendments you speak of prevent discrimination relating to voting rights, such as the 15th Amendment's guaranteeing that voting rigths "shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
The actual right to vote, however, is guaranteed and implemented at the state level only. This is why Florida can prevent felons from voting, while other jurisdictions allow felons to vote.
This is also why there is a movement to amend the Constitution so that voting rights WILL be affirmatively guaranteed by the Constitution.
Also, thanks for the snarky tone with regard to an issue you clearly don't know all that much about.
C
I think this is quite funny, considering the large community of artists like writers and painters who not only tend to be poor but would most certainly never make any money from their work if other's could copy it as they pleased.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I think that comparing Wizards to Saddam is going a bit overboard here. I also think you'd have a hard time saying that, say, a law against rape is all about maintaining the status quo and has nothing to do with justice.
The arguments in favor of copyright law have been expressed numerous times in the thread, so I won't repeat them. However, I'll add that if you like reading books or watching movies, you should probably thank copyright law. If people couldn't profit from creative endeavors such as writing, filmmaking, and publishing dorky card games, it would be pretty difficult for people to justify spending time on those pursuits. Doing it strictly because you love it is all well and good, but it doesn't help you get food or shelter.
This has been covered quite a bit, so I don't want to rehash too much of what I've already said.
Robin Hood stole from the rich to feed the poor. I don't think spoilers are helping anyone survive. We have no right to spoilers. It's not "our game." Not only that, it's RIGHT that it's not our game. We didn't make it; we just play it. To the extent that we buy cards and so forth, we can talk about them and play how we like and so forth. Absolutley none of this confers a right to know about cards that haven't come out, infringe on copyrights, and on and on.
C
@Hannes:
Are you saying you don’t want me to quote the posts I am responding to anymore? I normally do this so people reading can have some sort of context to bases my responses on. I’m normally responding to like 3 or 4 different people at a time, and the thread grows so fast it is hard for people to go back and look at exactly what I am talking about. Yeah most of my posts are much longer than other people, but it seems to be the only way when I am trying to have a dialogue with 6 or 7 different people at a time….
Sorry if I offended….
Get a life guys.
There is a whole big community here and lots to see, read and do. Just because someone happens to disagree with you position on this issue doesn't mean you have to obsess about it.
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(For the record i dislike or current president.)
No one can claim their country is good.Because its a concept.If someone does something to you and you thinks is bad.If you killed someones family for some reason and then they tried to kill you,are they evil for trying to kill you?Some would say yes,stateing that violence is wrong on every front.Others would say no,stateing that said person has a right to claim vengence.Whats the right answer?Who friggin knows.
Is i wrong that their women have to cover their bodies except for their eyes?Not really,they've been doing it for many many many year.Is it strange?Some would say yes,i for one find it kinda odd.But it's not my country.I can't tell them what to do.
Futher more why would Daron be tried in a Canadian court.He hasen't broken any laws their.That makes zero sense.What about that the kid (hes an adult now) who got caned in Singapoure.(i probably spelled it horribly wrong,and if its the wrong country i appologize) Why would he be brought to court in American?He didn't put graffiti on a wall in America.Most Americans thought he got what he deserved.
So just saying our country is evil,though seemingly so,is ridiculous as every country has its evils.No one person or country is good.Because someother country will disagree with it.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I want this thread to stop growing. And having this huge posts with 50 quotes in it doesn't help anything. This thread isn't about convincing other people that you are right, it's about discussion r_e's update about the lawsuit. Adding your opinion, then moving on. There is no prize to win here. Either stop it now or I'll close it.
Oh my god this is post #666. If this isn't a sign.