MTGS Forum Nomic #1 Discussion Thread

  • #1
    This thread is intended for ongoing discussion of the events, rules, and game state of Forum Nomic #1. From the General Discussion Thread (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=2356386&postcount=128):

    Quote from wamyc
    Guys, I have a point of interest here. The second Nomic game will be starting soon enough, and I think this thread should really be reserved for nomic metagaming and theory, not discussion of a single game and its particular goings on.

    Maybe we can get a thread started in each individual game's subforum for chat about particular games and particular rules. and particular rules so that we can use this thread just for game theory and general strategy. It's going to get pretty confusing with multiple games going on.



    So, let's talk about Game #1. It's interesting so far! I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes!

    (Mods, please relocate this thread to the sub-forum if you think it'd be more appropriate there.)
    If your signature takes up more lines than your actual post does, you should fix one or both of them.
  • #2
    I guess I'll go ahead and mention my proposal now.

    I think we can handle having two or three turns going simultaneously. Not only would this speed the game up tremendously (Zasz, you'll only have to wait a week instead of a month!) but it would give us a little more to sink our teeth into whenever we came here, and might stop some people from losing interest.

    Comments? Suggestions? Insults?
    "Live to the point of tears." ~ Camus
  • #3
    Quote from Fajen Thygia
    I guess I'll go ahead and mention my proposal now.

    I think we can handle having two or three turns going simultaneously. Not only would this speed the game up tremendously (Zasz, you'll only have to wait a week instead of a month!) but it would give us a little more to sink our teeth into whenever we came here, and might stop some people from losing interest.

    Comments? Suggestions? Insults?


    Hmm... I thought you might attempt to fix our problem with immutables, but this is an interesting idea. I can't wait to see exactly how your proposal will work.
  • #4
    Quote from Fajen Thygia
    I guess I'll go ahead and mention my proposal now.

    I think we can handle having two or three turns going simultaneously. Not only would this speed the game up tremendously (Zasz, you'll only have to wait a week instead of a month!) but it would give us a little more to sink our teeth into whenever we came here, and might stop some people from losing interest.

    Comments? Suggestions? Insults?


    If I new how to write the sound of myself salavating at the mouth, I would. I love this idea, and once we get used to it could see even more than two at a time. Great idea Fajen Thygia! I can't wait to see it on paper. Or pixels.

    banner by god child. he'd make you one too, if you weren't so bad at posting.

    Quote from Annorax
    Call me a moron crippled with Asperger's
  • #5
    Quote from TheFooFish
    Hmm... I thought you might attempt to fix our problem with immutables, but this is an interesting idea. I can't wait to see exactly how your proposal will work.


    No, that's my proposal.




    Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
  • #6
    Quote from Iammars
    No, that's my proposal.


    What are you planing on proposing to fix our immutable problem? Just curious.

    banner by god child. he'd make you one too, if you weren't so bad at posting.

    Quote from Annorax
    Call me a moron crippled with Asperger's
  • #7
    Quote from casualdecman
    What are you planing on proposing to fix our immutable problem? Just curious.


    What, to have more than twenty-five mutable rules yet have only less than twenty-five mutable rules?

    I'm letting someone look over it first before it gets revealed to the general public.
    Don't worry. You'll see it.




    Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
  • #8
    Quote from Iammars
    What, to have more than twenty-five mutable rules yet have only less than twenty-five mutable rules?

    I'm letting someone look over it first before it gets revealed to the general public.
    Don't worry. You'll see it.


    Ok, I can wait.:) Also just out of curiosity, who do you have looking over it? Someone on MTGS, or a friend at home kind of thing?

    banner by god child. he'd make you one too, if you weren't so bad at posting.

    Quote from Annorax
    Call me a moron crippled with Asperger's
  • #9
    Quote from casualdecman
    Ok, I can wait.:) Also just out of curiosity, who do you have looking over it? Someone on MTGS, or a friend at home kind of thing?


    I'm keeping it a secret. Smile




    Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
  • #10
    Indeed it is a conundrum.

    I moved this thread, because I thought it was better here. Also it means people can talk here when there is no prop up, rather than the General Nomic thread. Smile
  • #11
    Can we have this thread stickied? Seems like it should be.

    banner by god child. he'd make you one too, if you weren't so bad at posting.

    Quote from Annorax
    Call me a moron crippled with Asperger's
  • #12
    Quote from Fajen Thygia
    I guess I'll go ahead and mention my proposal now.

    I think we can handle having two or three turns going simultaneously. Not only would this speed the game up tremendously (Zasz, you'll only have to wait a week instead of a month!) but it would give us a little more to sink our teeth into whenever we came here, and might stop some people from losing interest.

    Comments? Suggestions? Insults?


    Interestingly that's exactly the rules change I wanted to suggest, but couldn't do, because it's needed to even get me suggestiing a rule soon...
    I have a hard time with finding the right way to do it though, especially the turn-order formulation is kind of unclear atm - stupid language, why can't we all speak in virtual basic? Frown
    Quote from Conuly »
    Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.

    Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
  • #13
    Quote from ZasZ234
    Interestingly that's exactly the rules change I wanted to suggest, but couldn't do, because it's needed to even get me suggestiing a rule soon...
    I have a hard time with finding the right way to do it though, especially the turn-order formulation is kind of unclear atm - stupid language, why can't we all speak in virtual basic? Frown


    LOL.

    But so true. Frown




    Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
  • #14
    That was surprisingly nerve-wracking.

    Even though I didn't use exactly the same terms (Binary, if you could fix that, I'd appreciate it) in each clause, it should still work perfectly. The only real concern I had was that Binary might feel a little overburdened, but he said that it was no trouble.
    "Live to the point of tears." ~ Camus
  • #15
    We may as well continue discussion while play is suspended, since apparently we're going to have to revote on this.
    Quote from andelijah »

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by carrion pigeons
    Well, it won't under the current system, actually. It only will if we implement a rule to say that a turn can end before the 24 hour proposal stage has passed.

    It can if the second person posts their proposal before the first person does, so their turn goes by before the first person's does.


    My suggested wording specifically disallows the extra turn from starting first. That was the entire point.
    Town MVP HS Mafia
    Mafia MVP BM Mafia
    Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia

    Quote from Blinking Spirit
    What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.


    Quote from arimnaes
    'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
  • #16
    I don't get the quote. Don't we have that rule already? "/skip"?

    greetings
    Z
    Quote from Conuly »
    Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.

    Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
  • #17
    he's talking about his wording of what I was trying to propose -
    Quote from CP »
    214. A player's turn ends when the moderator has posted the results of that player's die roll. The next player's turn begins immediately thereafter. Additionally, if there are fewer than 2 active turns, the next player after that may begin his or her turn once all other active turns have moved to the proposal stage.


    There's some scalability issues with that, and I'm concerned about how future rules will react to it.

    What I'm thinking of doing, if people don't think it's really more than one rule, is adapting Andilijah's wording.
    "Up to two players may take their turns simultaneously. A player can only take their turn if every player before them in the order has either already taken their turn for the round or is currently taking their turn for the round. A player may only make one proposal per round. A round is defined as the time it takes for each player to make a proposal and have it voted on. A new round begins from the beginning of the order after each round finishes."
    Something will need to be added to let the last and the first player take their turns together.

    If people think that's too much, then I can also just propose a rule creating rounds, and someone down the line can do the simulturn thing. There are a number of other interesting things that can be done if we actually have a system of rounds in place.
    Last edited by Fajen Thygia: 11/23/2007 11:52:21 AM
    "Live to the point of tears." ~ Camus
  • #18
    Quote from Fajen Thygia
    What I'm thinking of doing, if people don't think it's really more than one rule, is adapting Andilijah's wording. Something will need to be added to let the last and the first player take their turns together.

    If people think that's too much, then I can also just propose a rule creating rounds, and someone down the line can do the simulturn thing. There are a number of other interesting things that can be done if we actually have a system of rounds in place.


    I do argue that the round definition and the simultaneous turns are two separate rules. I would vote for the "round" system but not for any permutation of the simultaneous turns proposal as it endangers the livelihood of the nomic.

    I'd suggest simply scrapping the idea as it bears an absolute load of rules baggage that will lead to what was aptly called "rules paralysis."
    Mafia stats // Come play EDH with us on Monday nights! (NYC Area)

    "...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
  • #19
    Quote from zindabad
    I do argue that the round definition and the simultaneous turns are two separate rules. I would vote for the "round" system but not for any permutation of the simultaneous turns proposal as it endangers the livelihood of the nomic.

    I'd suggest simply scrapping the idea as it bears an absolute load of rules baggage that will lead to what was aptly called "rules paralysis."

    Um... how so?
    [The Family]
    Salvation Mafia Clan

    Mafia Stats
    last updated 03/23/11
  • #20
    Quote from andelijah
    Um... how so?


    Will "wait and see what'll happen when you pass it" suffice for an answer? Wink
    Mafia stats // Come play EDH with us on Monday nights! (NYC Area)

    "...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
  • #21
    Quote from zindabad
    Will "wait and see what'll happen when you pass it" suffice for an answer? Wink


    Are you trying to scare people out of voting for FT's proposal? Only scum would try fear tactics!

    Vote: zindabad




    Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
  • #22
    Quote from zindabad
    I would vote for the "round" system but not for any permutation of the simultaneous turns proposal as it endangers the livelihood of the nomic.

    I'd suggest simply scrapping the idea as it bears an absolute load of rules baggage that will lead to what was aptly called "rules paralysis."


    FT, please don't listen to that. Under the new rules, each turn will take 2-3 days and I would really like to take a turn sometime in 2007. So, we need your multiturn rule, now more than ever. It would have passed before, and it will pass again. So, please, just stick to your proposal; it won't break the game, it will save it.
  • #23
    Zindabad's already come out and said that he would oppose the best way to do that, and it only takes one person to Invoke Judgement (something we should look into, by the way. If a single person wanted to, they could add an extra ~ 8 hours on to each and every turn). I'm checking something now...

    Just a heads up - When play resumes, I'll be a third of the way through a game of Twilight Imperium, which means that I'll be free at 4:00 PM at the earliest, and more likely at around 7:00. So don't bother checking for a proposal till then.
    Last edited by Fajen Thygia: 11/24/2007 1:28:03 AM
    "Live to the point of tears." ~ Camus
  • #24
    Quote from Fajen Thygia
    Zindabad's already come out and said that he would oppose the best way to do that


    If you need to, just repropose the rule change exactly as it was when voting stopped. It was good enough, and the speed boost is now even more important.
  • #25
    Quote from Fajen Thygia
    Zindabad's already come out and said that he would oppose the best way to do that, and it only takes one person to Invoke Judgement (something we should look into, by the way. If a single person wanted to, they could add an extra ~ 8 hours on to each and every turn). I'm checking something now...


    Well, you can rest assured that I won't be invoking judgment just to stop (to slow, actually) this ridiculous proposal from passing. That would be unsportsmanlike...as long as your proposal is within the rules, however, and the last one was not.
    Mafia stats // Come play EDH with us on Monday nights! (NYC Area)

    "...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes