Haven't tested Swans but I like the idea. Damn we're running out of time to test before the PTQs and Atlanta hit us. This deck needs some way to win when it A) doesn't find Ascension, B) Ascension gets killed somehow, and C) we just draw lots of lands and no draw spells because God hates combo.
I think the risks involved with playing Swans are self-evident, so I'd like to skip talking about that and just give it a try in testing. The one thing I have to say is that you probably want to be playing Spell Pierce if u add Swans so that you may actually resolve it against blue decks or protect it from Maelstrom Pulse decks.
I've been sorta liking Spell Pierce. I'm wondering if going to 20 lands and playing both Pierce and Leak would be better, cutting the Volcanic Fallout or whatever you have in the 2-of slot. Or going 20 land to add more card draw.
I might have a brilliant idea but it also might be crazy. What if you ran a couple of Swans of Bryn Argoll? I think that it is a shame that the card hasn't seen play yet and it seems like it would be sick in this deck with all the bolts and draw already in place. Just to shake things up a bit...
Well unfortunatly, it's probably a bad idea, on paper at least.
1/ it cost as much as jace, and does less when it comes into play (and waiting to have more mana is not great as time warping should be better)
2/ it doesn't help you unless you burn it, and even then, burst is 0 CA and bolt is only 1 card. (your game plan is to play sorceries and instants not creature)
3/ dies to removal... like all creatures yeah, but the opponent's removal will be waiting for your only creature
4/ it can't block
5/ opponent's fallout will cantrip. we don't want that. Their bolt become ancestrall recall.
... well just forget it i think :/
by the way pyromancer as good as the deck is, doesn't seem to be any effective in this environnement where 2 mana enchantements are run in top tiers deck (and tempered steel is somehow an enchantement to remove)
every deck should handle : bitter, omen, tempered thus pyro.
Yeah it's probably not good enough. The one other creature I'm considering is Calcite Snapper. Doesn't die to stuff, blocks stuff, gets through WoO, pecks and kills V Clique (though I'd probably convert to 4/1 then just bolt the Clique if there arent other fae around.)
by the way pyromancer as good as the deck is, doesn't seem to be any effective in this environnement where 2 mana enchantements are run in top tiers deck (and tempered steel is somehow an enchantement to remove)
every deck should handle : bitter, omen, tempered thus pyro.
I'll keep the deck for next year
Every deck need to be able to handle them game 2.....
Why no Spreading Seas? Owned Jund last standard and I don't see why it wouldn't in extended? Also 4c control. The fact that it's not an instant of sorcery isn't as bad as you might think. I play Tectonic Edge in my standard and it's pretty good, there's lots of non basics in extended.
Blood Braid Elf is underplayed in standard now. She was in practically every deck, but after October people just suddenly stopped running her in their 75. Weird considering how good she is.
there are lots of non basics and whatnot, but jund isnt nearly as screwed by spreading seas in extended as it was in standard..their access to colors is much easier now.
Why no Spreading Seas? Owned Jund last standard and I don't see why it wouldn't in extended? Also 4c control. The fact that it's not an instant of sorcery isn't as bad as you might think. I play Tectonic Edge in my standard and it's pretty good, there's lots of non basics in extended.
There ARE alot of non-basics, but it's kind of at the critical mass where their mana fixing is good regardless. Against 4CC they can still have Jace, the Mindsculptor and Cryptic Command, so Islands don't really hurt.
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Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Tectonic Edge and Fulminator don't seem like cards I'd ever run against this deck.
In fact, everytimes I've beaten this deck I've sideboarded out Fulminator Mage even after seeing the Cascade Bluffs. 4 Cards for... 4 Cards is poor. I'm certain a color accessible mana base is more important than worrying about Tect Edge and Fulminator Mage.
And Call to Mind is certainly not needed compared to the Standard build.
Yeah, sure, because splinter Twin is absolutly perfect against quasali pridemage and Nature's Claimthat every good deck has in board unless the said deck keeps bolt in.
Only bad player would fold to the "surprise" from the change of combo post side. It's still an enchantement based combo which rely on a creature and an aura surviving during your turn. And don't talk about counters, the aura is 4CC.
Is that the best you have to offer against the hate ? (directed toward what i think is probably the best decks : wargate and faerie)
I stil believe time warp and call to mind are the way to go, but, hey, I lost almost all my games during all my testing so... (I won the one on timewarp/call to mind though)
I think the Polymorph sideboard is your best option. Other than that you could always try and switch it up into UR Control Frost Titans, Jace, and Wurmcoils in the SB.
Tectonic Edge and Fulminator don't seem like cards I'd ever run against this deck.
In fact, everytimes I've beaten this deck I've sideboarded out Fulminator Mage even after seeing the Cascade Bluffs. 4 Cards for... 4 Cards is poor. I'm certain a color accessible mana base is more important than worrying about Tect Edge and Fulminator Mage.
And Call to Mind is certainly not needed compared to the Standard build.
So how many decks have tectonic edges and fulminator mages in the sideboard?
Yeah, sure, because splinter Twin is absolutly perfect against quasali pridemage and Nature's Claimthat every good deck has in board unless the said deck keeps bolt in.
Only bad player would fold to the "surprise" from the change of combo post side. It's still an enchantement based combo which rely on a creature and an aura surviving during your turn. And don't talk about counters, the aura is 4CC.
Is that the best you have to offer against the hate ? (directed toward what i think is probably the best decks : wargate and faerie)
I stil believe time warp and call to mind are the way to go, but, hey, I lost almost all my games during all my testing so... (I won the one on timewarp/call to mind though)
how do you flash in a pridemage before the 30 pestermites kill you? Or do you take out your burn against pridemage decks..?
I think the Polymorph sideboard is your best option. Other than that you could always try and switch it up into UR Control Frost Titans, Jace, and Wurmcoils in the SB.
may be, but you still fold to bolt/path that they may keep to answer pestermite...
as i saw in a member signature, why would you play pyro as wargate is just stronger with real plan B (avanger, real beats).. and plan A is hardly disrupted (you may have one or 2 free colorless uncounterable bolts even if the enchant is destroyed)
while pyro, if destroyed, leave you with nothing but trouble.
I may be wrong, but the deck won't deserve his place as competitive for a while. (there was none to be seen at the last 142 players PTQ I went to IRL)
you can't combo off while pride mage is on the board... isn't it obvious ?
So you sided out all of your burn spells? I'm confused. Do they have 3 meddling mages with bolt, burst, and fallout named?
Oh, so you're saying if an idiot player played a pridemage without you having an ascension out already, and you had no burn in hand against a midrange naya/bant deck, and they had more than 1 mana up, and you were going to die next turn before you can find burn. Well based on that case (happens almost every game!), pridemage competely nullifies the pestermite combo plan. Well done!
So you sided out all of your burn spells? I'm confused. Do they have 3 meddling mages with bolt, burst, and fallout named?
you can't just say i'm playing burn so it won't be an hinderance. Magic doesn't play like this unfortunatly.
It is even possible that you need to use that burn to survive while setting up the combo.
Regardless it's one card vs combo. Similarily, unless they have a bolt, once you equip the pestermite and are holding a bolt of your own you win; just make sure you maintain the stack correctly.
Pestermite. Equip Pester, Bolt Pridemage, Mage is sac'd in response, combo off. an Opposing bolt is what you're really worried about, but I'm sure that you can play around that as well.
Polymorph still beat out RDW and Cunning Sparkmages with effective manageament, nothing says Ascension cant either.
There is always a method around hate for the combo, being in a deck with counters and burn you have a good many outs; some of it is playing well.
How does Scapeshift resolve against Fae packing 16 counterspells? It happens, if you want to throw theory all over the place you can, but the fact remains as unstable as something is, your opponent sometimes just can't do it. Magic isn't a game of skill for nothing; you can't just throw theoretical situations around as if they always happen or will always happen.
you can't just say i'm playing burn so it won't be an hinderance. Magic doesn't play like this unfortunatly.
It is even possible that you need to use that burn to survive while setting up the combo.
No one plays pridemage before you have an ascension out. Pridemage is effectively a 3 mana disenchant against ascension.
Have you even played a game with this deck? Nature's claim is a significant hindrance, pridemage is not. Against a deck with pridemage, you will have 12+ burn spells in your deck, plus 16 cards that do nothing but find burn or cantrip. So of your 60 card deck, effectively half of it can kill a pridemage. If you cannot count on drawing some burn spells to kill a pridemage, why are you playing magic. Go play bingo with the same order called every time so that there are no surprises or variance at any time.
Think about the scenario I described above. I'll run the math for you (estimations of course)
Chances of playing against a naya/bant deck with pridemage: 10%.
Chances of them playing a pridemage without you having an ascension out: 10%
Chances of you having no burn to kill the pridemage before you die: 5%
Chances they left more than 1 mana up on their turn: 50%
So, in sideboarded games, you have a .025% chance of being screwed by pridemage. Better pack up those cards and never play splinter twin, pridemage is too good against it! Once every 4000 games you're gonna get hosed.
I think the risks involved with playing Swans are self-evident, so I'd like to skip talking about that and just give it a try in testing. The one thing I have to say is that you probably want to be playing Spell Pierce if u add Swans so that you may actually resolve it against blue decks or protect it from Maelstrom Pulse decks.
I've been sorta liking Spell Pierce. I'm wondering if going to 20 lands and playing both Pierce and Leak would be better, cutting the Volcanic Fallout or whatever you have in the 2-of slot. Or going 20 land to add more card draw.
Well unfortunatly, it's probably a bad idea, on paper at least.
1/ it cost as much as jace, and does less when it comes into play (and waiting to have more mana is not great as time warping should be better)
2/ it doesn't help you unless you burn it, and even then, burst is 0 CA and bolt is only 1 card. (your game plan is to play sorceries and instants not creature)
3/ dies to removal... like all creatures yeah, but the opponent's removal will be waiting for your only creature
4/ it can't block
5/ opponent's fallout will cantrip. we don't want that. Their bolt become ancestrall recall.
... well just forget it i think :/
by the way pyromancer as good as the deck is, doesn't seem to be any effective in this environnement where 2 mana enchantements are run in top tiers deck (and tempered steel is somehow an enchantement to remove)
every deck should handle : bitter, omen, tempered thus pyro.
I'll keep the deck for next year
Yeah it's probably not good enough. The one other creature I'm considering is Calcite Snapper. Doesn't die to stuff, blocks stuff, gets through WoO, pecks and kills V Clique (though I'd probably convert to 4/1 then just bolt the Clique if there arent other fae around.)
Every deck need to be able to handle them game 2.....
Which is why we can switch it up with Pestermite and Splinter Twin or do what the japanese did and swith it with Polymorph
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There ARE alot of non-basics, but it's kind of at the critical mass where their mana fixing is good regardless. Against 4CC they can still have Jace, the Mindsculptor and Cryptic Command, so Islands don't really hurt.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Heres the deck ive been testing
7 Mountains
11 Islands
4 Cryptic Command
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 See Beyond
4 Mana Leak
4 Pyromancers Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Manamorphse
2 Volcanic Fallout
4 Pestermite
4 Splinter
4 Spellpierce
1 Negate
Any quick thoughts ? and SB guides ?
Cascade Bluffs?
tectonic edge? fulminator mage?
and as for the deck, no call to mind?
Tectonic Edge and Fulminator don't seem like cards I'd ever run against this deck.
In fact, everytimes I've beaten this deck I've sideboarded out Fulminator Mage even after seeing the Cascade Bluffs. 4 Cards for... 4 Cards is poor. I'm certain a color accessible mana base is more important than worrying about Tect Edge and Fulminator Mage.
And Call to Mind is certainly not needed compared to the Standard build.
Yeah, sure, because splinter Twin is absolutly perfect against quasali pridemage and Nature's Claimthat every good deck has in board unless the said deck keeps bolt in.
Only bad player would fold to the "surprise" from the change of combo post side. It's still an enchantement based combo which rely on a creature and an aura surviving during your turn. And don't talk about counters, the aura is 4CC.
Is that the best you have to offer against the hate ? (directed toward what i think is probably the best decks : wargate and faerie)
I stil believe time warp and call to mind are the way to go, but, hey, I lost almost all my games during all my testing so... (I won the one on timewarp/call to mind though)
So how many decks have tectonic edges and fulminator mages in the sideboard?
how do you flash in a pridemage before the 30 pestermites kill you? Or do you take out your burn against pridemage decks..?
may be, but you still fold to bolt/path that they may keep to answer pestermite...
as i saw in a member signature, why would you play pyro as wargate is just stronger with real plan B (avanger, real beats).. and plan A is hardly disrupted (you may have one or 2 free colorless uncounterable bolts even if the enchant is destroyed)
while pyro, if destroyed, leave you with nothing but trouble.
I may be wrong, but the deck won't deserve his place as competitive for a while. (there was none to be seen at the last 142 players PTQ I went to IRL)
you can't combo off while pride mage is on the board... isn't it obvious ?
So you sided out all of your burn spells? I'm confused. Do they have 3 meddling mages with bolt, burst, and fallout named?
Oh, so you're saying if an idiot player played a pridemage without you having an ascension out already, and you had no burn in hand against a midrange naya/bant deck, and they had more than 1 mana up, and you were going to die next turn before you can find burn. Well based on that case (happens almost every game!), pridemage competely nullifies the pestermite combo plan. Well done!
you can't just say i'm playing burn so it won't be an hinderance. Magic doesn't play like this unfortunatly.
It is even possible that you need to use that burn to survive while setting up the combo.
Pestermite. Equip Pester, Bolt Pridemage, Mage is sac'd in response, combo off. an Opposing bolt is what you're really worried about, but I'm sure that you can play around that as well.
Polymorph still beat out RDW and Cunning Sparkmages with effective manageament, nothing says Ascension cant either.
There is always a method around hate for the combo, being in a deck with counters and burn you have a good many outs; some of it is playing well.
How does Scapeshift resolve against Fae packing 16 counterspells? It happens, if you want to throw theory all over the place you can, but the fact remains as unstable as something is, your opponent sometimes just can't do it. Magic isn't a game of skill for nothing; you can't just throw theoretical situations around as if they always happen or will always happen.
you can combo off while the Destroy ability is on the stack?
No one plays pridemage before you have an ascension out. Pridemage is effectively a 3 mana disenchant against ascension.
Have you even played a game with this deck? Nature's claim is a significant hindrance, pridemage is not. Against a deck with pridemage, you will have 12+ burn spells in your deck, plus 16 cards that do nothing but find burn or cantrip. So of your 60 card deck, effectively half of it can kill a pridemage. If you cannot count on drawing some burn spells to kill a pridemage, why are you playing magic. Go play bingo with the same order called every time so that there are no surprises or variance at any time.
Think about the scenario I described above. I'll run the math for you (estimations of course)
Chances of playing against a naya/bant deck with pridemage: 10%.
Chances of them playing a pridemage without you having an ascension out: 10%
Chances of you having no burn to kill the pridemage before you die: 5%
Chances they left more than 1 mana up on their turn: 50%
So, in sideboarded games, you have a .025% chance of being screwed by pridemage. Better pack up those cards and never play splinter twin, pridemage is too good against it! Once every 4000 games you're gonna get hosed.
nah you can't, because they just kill it in response to you untapping your pestermite
Uh, if they have already sacc'd and targetted you can most certainly combo off.
Ability on stack.
Response.
Chain.