Powerful under the right circumstances. Divination sucks and even that was good in standard for a while. I'm not saying it's format breaking but it feels powerful in THIS deck.
Besides, I couldn't name the deck something that good without it
if you have to combine two cards which do nearly nothing on their own to get an similar effect of a single card that was most of the time unplayeble for constructed, then something is going wrong.
lol yeah i know i'm radical i know! As ascensions are much weaker in game 2's when they have boarded out there removal and brought in the enchantment/graveyard hate. And i dont like being dead to hate cards.
And as far as why i keep in manamorphose is i guess how i approach the deck. To me all i'm trying to do is find my combo and protect that and manamorphose does an amazing job of doing that! like nothing feels better than manamorphosing into ur mana leak while drawing another one or drawing a combo piece or a cryptic command. Its a free card that digs you one deeper and gives your mana back. I feel like manamorphose is the 9-12th ponder and pre-ordain(while MUCH worse in that aspect but very different).
Just my 2 cents. I'm more than willing to hear the opposing argument as is i'm just another mage trying to understand this deck that much better.
Manamorphos without the combo is not that amazing. It's like playing a 56 card deck, though its awkward sometimes when you mainphase manamorphos into cryptic command and cant leave mana up, or eot manamorphos into ponder and you wasted your turn
I decided to remove Jace's Ingenuity and MD 02x Volcanic Fallout (take that fae), which provide me room to run 03x Dispel which I believe is a game changer for the counter wars in resolving Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo VS 4cc
Omen/Valakut is going to screw us. The new 'best' deck appears to rely on a 2 casting enchantment very heavily. That means more main deck and sideboard hate. This is just a guess but I would bet we're about to see a lot more hosers real soon. The question really is, what's the hate going to be?
I've already seen Whispmare or Acidic Slime in Ooze and Oz, which they can tutor up with Shaman. Jund already had Maelstrom Pulse to cascade into. 4cc has esper charm. Fae has ??? counter spells? Valakut/Omen has cryptic command (along with everyone else) and Qasali Pridemage from the board. So a quick list of likely cards we'll see more of soon are
1. Cryptic Command
2. Qasali Pridemage/war priest of thune/acidic slime
3. Maelstrom Pulse
4. Esper Charm
5. Thoughtsieze/Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress
So how do we beat these? I think it's easy to say, oh I'll just counter their spells, but not very realistic. It almost comes down more to how you play against the different decks? If you play Fae do you preordain turn one, hope they bitterblossom turn two so you can PA free and clear of counter spells, then protect against cryptic?
Assuming that everyone is playing something close to the Australian list just mentioned, which I like
Jund doesn't have much room to fit in hate against us, it not the best MU since they have thoughtseize and duress which prevents us from holding on our Pyromancer Ascension for too long, and with pulse as well we can never to too safe with our enchantments .
So you'll need to try and manipulate your library to draw Pyromancer Ascension when you WANT to cast it (which is when you have counter back-up)then play tight and be prepare to take quite bit of damage. if your playing my list I suggest boarding fallout for Spell Pierce.
Valakut/Omen, I don't have enough experience to judge how the MU will play-out though I think we're the better control deck (due to draws and counters) so I don't think its a bad MU
4cc is my most hated MU, my current game plan is the Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo. If they don't board in VF it can be a decent plan, on g3 I think its anyones game.
Fae is just a hard match overall our best play is to stick with Pyromancer Ascension and try it hit as many VF as possible to stall out till we win with either the combo ur just burn (thoughtseize and bitterbossom, brings them quite cose too the red zone)
Note: I'm not a pro, so don't balme me if it doesn't work
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I know the 60 is pretty much set in stone, but has anyone tried out flame jab. Of course it's sorcery and only deals 1 damage, but it replaces your dead lands in hand and makes it easier to activate PA. I run it alongside treasure hunt because I don't own any Cryptics. Just wanted to share my two cents.
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I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity and boycotting overpriced singles. Sig this to join the cause for a more affordable Magic the Gathering.
Considering the meta-game, I'm going to begin testing -4 Mana Leak, +4 Spell Pierce in the main. Honestly, this deck is pretty resilient to creatures with 4x Bolt and 4x Burst lightning, and the ability to counter things off 1 mana in a format decently filled with tapping out or counter wars that can be won with a timely 1 mana counter could prove invaluable.
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Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
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Considering the meta-game, I'm going to begin testing -4 Mana Leak, +4 Spell Pierce in the main. Honestly, this deck is pretty resilient to creatures with 4x Bolt and 4x Burst lightning, and the ability to counter things off 1 mana in a format decently filled with tapping out or counter wars that can be won with a timely 1 mana counter could prove invaluable.
A number of list now run Qasali Pridemage MD, I wouldn't want to be be blown out game 1 because we can't deal with it (I know we can bounce it, but waiting till we hit UUU1 really slows downs the time we can play Pyromancer Ascension.
Pierce didn't really work out in the main, Leak is certainly better as the meta is alittle wider than I initially thought and Doran rocked my face off without Leak.
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MonoUDelver(in progress)
Spell Pierce, not even close. Scapeshift, Prismatic Omen, Jace, Cruel, Bitterblossom, etc. If you are looking for a way to blow open drawn out counterwars, consider Mindbreak Trap. They generally won't cast Cruel or Jace without major counter back-up, so in the control mirror it's pretty easy to get the trap condition.
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Current Legacy:
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UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Spell Pierce is huuuuge in the current meta. It just negates (haha...) disadvantages being on the draw, doesn't let threats hit the board, maybe triggers ascension....
I know the 60 is pretty much set in stone, but has anyone tried out flame jab. Of course it's sorcery and only deals 1 damage, but it replaces your dead lands in hand and makes it easier to activate PA. I run it alongside treasure hunt because I don't own any Cryptics. Just wanted to share my two cents.
i have. it works pretty well with it but it pretty much requires you to cast a Manamorphose for it to be effective.
retrace only activates PA if there are two in ur graveyard
um this is incorrect as far as im aware as PA states that when you cast a spell that has the same name as a card in your graveyard put a counter on it. when you retrace flame jab you are playing it from your graveyard which means there is a card in your graveyard that shares the same name as this spell (itself) which triggers PA
I don't think a single Jab from the yard will do it because when you retrace, you are casting the spell and it goes on the stack. While it's on the stack, it is not in your graveyard.
I don't think a single Jab from the yard will do it because when you retrace, you are casting the spell and it goes on the stack. While it's on the stack, it is not in your graveyard.
that is correct you need two in your graveyard if you are retracing making a lot less effective for effective at activating PA
spell pierce is much better in the md than mana leak. Mana leak kind of sucks right now.
I'm interested in hearing more about your results. Mana Leak hasn't felt that bad, especially when you get to double Leak stuff post-ascension. May I ask what your deck list is right now, and what results you have gotten?
I'm interested in hearing more about your results. Mana Leak hasn't felt that bad, especially when you get to double Leak stuff post-ascension. May I ask what your deck list is right now, and what results you have gotten?
Against anything that isn't Doran or some homebrew Spell Pierce is actually probably better.
LSV Recently listed what he thought were the best decks. It was Faeries, 4CC, Omen decks, and Jund. Against the first three, Spell Pierce is quite powerful. On the play you can stop Thoughtseize from Faeries(I often won't cast a spell turn one in order to play around their Seize), and you can stop their Blossom more consistantly than with Leak.
Against 4CC it's pretty much strictly better, as it costs 1 mana for nearly the same effect, and they play no creatures.
Against Omen decks it's the same explanation. Very few to no creatures, powerful spells to be countered.
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Current Legacy:
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UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
I might have a brilliant idea but it also might be crazy. What if you ran a couple of Swans of Bryn Argoll? I think that it is a shame that the card hasn't seen play yet and it seems like it would be sick in this deck with all the bolts and draw already in place. Just to shake things up a bit...
I'll certainly be playing it. and if you doubt the usefulness of this spell.... well, good luck! lol. You'll be on the receiving end of it soon enough, when your Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker gets turned into an elephant.
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Spending two cards + 2 Mana to draw 3 cards, that is what you call powerfull?
www.moi-rai.com
Besides, I couldn't name the deck something that good without it
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4x Scalding Tarn
8x Island
6x Mountain
2x Cascade Bluffs
3x Halimar Depths
Spells: 37
4x Manamorphose
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Burst Lightning
4x Into the Roil
3x Volcanic Fallout
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
4x Mana Leak
2x Call to Mind
4x Pyromancer Ascension
4x Pestermite
4x Splinter Twin
4x Flashfreeze
1x Volcanic Fallout
2x Spell Pierce
Manamorphos without the combo is not that amazing. It's like playing a 56 card deck, though its awkward sometimes when you mainphase manamorphos into cryptic command and cant leave mana up, or eot manamorphos into ponder and you wasted your turn
08 Island
06 Mountain
04 Cascade Bluffs
04 Scalding Tarn
Other Spells 38
04 Burst Lightning
04 Cryptic Command
04 Lightning Bolt
04 Mana Leak
04 Manamorphose
04 Ponder
04 Preordain
04 Pyromancer Ascension
04 See Beyond
02 Volcanic Fallout
04 Pestermite
04 Splinter Twin
03 Dispel
02 Spell Pierce
02 Volcanic Fallout
Just confirming, is this the correct SB choice:
Jund:
Spell Pierce
Fae:
Volcanic Fallout, Spell Pierce
Combo:
Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo + Dispel
Control:
Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo + Dispel
Aggro with limited removal:
Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo + Dispel
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I've already seen Whispmare or Acidic Slime in Ooze and Oz, which they can tutor up with Shaman. Jund already had Maelstrom Pulse to cascade into. 4cc has esper charm. Fae has ??? counter spells? Valakut/Omen has cryptic command (along with everyone else) and Qasali Pridemage from the board. So a quick list of likely cards we'll see more of soon are
1. Cryptic Command
2. Qasali Pridemage/war priest of thune/acidic slime
3. Maelstrom Pulse
4. Esper Charm
5. Thoughtsieze/Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress
So how do we beat these? I think it's easy to say, oh I'll just counter their spells, but not very realistic. It almost comes down more to how you play against the different decks? If you play Fae do you preordain turn one, hope they bitterblossom turn two so you can PA free and clear of counter spells, then protect against cryptic?
Assuming that everyone is playing something close to the Australian list just mentioned, which I like
Lands 22
08 Island
06 Mountain
04 Cascade Bluffs
04 Scalding Tarn
Other Spells 38
4 Burst Lightning
4 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Manamorphose
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 See Beyond
2 Volcanic Fallout
Sideboard 15
4 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
3 Dispel
2 Spell Pierce
2 Volcanic Fallout
How do you play against
Fae?
4cc?
Jund?
Ooze and Oz?
Valakut/Omen?
New Affinity?
Going to argue that Ooze and Oz, New Affinity and Elves are favourable MU.
Game-one we just play the game normally and we should have quite decent shot at winning assuming you plan your counters and creature kills.
Game-two out goes Pyromancer Ascension and in goes Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo. The foremention deck don't run many instant spot removal so EoT Pestermite followed via Splinter Twin is GG.
Jund doesn't have much room to fit in hate against us, it not the best MU since they have thoughtseize and duress which prevents us from holding on our Pyromancer Ascension for too long, and with pulse as well we can never to too safe with our enchantments .
So you'll need to try and manipulate your library to draw Pyromancer Ascension when you WANT to cast it (which is when you have counter back-up)then play tight and be prepare to take quite bit of damage. if your playing my list I suggest boarding fallout for Spell Pierce.
Valakut/Omen, I don't have enough experience to judge how the MU will play-out though I think we're the better control deck (due to draws and counters) so I don't think its a bad MU
4cc is my most hated MU, my current game plan is the Pestermite + Splinter Twin combo. If they don't board in VF it can be a decent plan, on g3 I think its anyones game.
Fae is just a hard match overall our best play is to stick with Pyromancer Ascension and try it hit as many VF as possible to stall out till we win with either the combo ur just burn (thoughtseize and bitterbossom, brings them quite cose too the red zone)
Note: I'm not a pro, so don't balme me if it doesn't work
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
A number of list now run Qasali Pridemage MD, I wouldn't want to be be blown out game 1 because we can't deal with it (I know we can bounce it, but waiting till we hit UUU1 really slows downs the time we can play Pyromancer Ascension.
Though due to Qasali Pridemage and Ratchet Bomb I've been thinking about moving my VF back into the SB and running 03x into the roil and 03x Cryptic Command
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Mine
3x guttural response good against any control
3x volcanic falllout fights aggro
4x Polymorph
4x Spawning Breath
1x Emrakul,the aeons torn
Im trying out the polymorph side board plan.
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4x Pestermite
4x Splinter Twin
3x Volcanic Fallout
4x Spell Pierce
Pierce didn't really work out in the main, Leak is certainly better as the meta is alittle wider than I initially thought and Doran rocked my face off without Leak.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Why run Guttural response when we can play Dispel ?
Also how is the 4x Polymorph & 4x Spawning Breath working for you? With the exception for Qasali Pridemage I don't see how it's any better then the Pestermite and Splinter Twin combo which pretty much wins you the game as soon as it resolves....
Also guys what are your thoughts on Dispel VS Spell Pierce?
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Spell Pierce, not even close. Scapeshift, Prismatic Omen, Jace, Cruel, Bitterblossom, etc. If you are looking for a way to blow open drawn out counterwars, consider Mindbreak Trap. They generally won't cast Cruel or Jace without major counter back-up, so in the control mirror it's pretty easy to get the trap condition.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
i have. it works pretty well with it but it pretty much requires you to cast a Manamorphose for it to be effective.
retrace only activates PA if there are two in ur graveyard
correct me if im wrong
that is correct you need two in your graveyard if you are retracing making a lot less effective for effective at activating PA
I'm interested in hearing more about your results. Mana Leak hasn't felt that bad, especially when you get to double Leak stuff post-ascension. May I ask what your deck list is right now, and what results you have gotten?
Against anything that isn't Doran or some homebrew Spell Pierce is actually probably better.
LSV Recently listed what he thought were the best decks. It was Faeries, 4CC, Omen decks, and Jund. Against the first three, Spell Pierce is quite powerful. On the play you can stop Thoughtseize from Faeries(I often won't cast a spell turn one in order to play around their Seize), and you can stop their Blossom more consistantly than with Leak.
Against 4CC it's pretty much strictly better, as it costs 1 mana for nearly the same effect, and they play no creatures.
Against Omen decks it's the same explanation. Very few to no creatures, powerful spells to be countered.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)