This was is my gameplan against Omen. Well that and hope they don't have turn 0 Leyline. Although Leyline makes your role in the match very clear (definitely not saying I like when he has leyline), you have to just drop as many guys as possible and wait for an opening to pulse his Leyline. What else can you really do?
@Grim: Did he board in the Wurmcoils, Finks and all that nasty stuff? If so, how did the interactions with those cards go?
he boarded in finks not sure about wurmcoil because i killed him T5 game 2 i just overwhelmed him form the start, he did have leyline turn 0 in both games but i really didnt feel it was that hard to play around. in fact i pulsed prismatic omen instead of leyline game 1 to keep him off his combo. the threat density of our deck is so much higher than wargate/omens if you can keep him off his combo we just win. T2 leech,T3 ramgang,T4 BBE cascade into ramgang pretty much seals the deal
...And dealing with Bitterblossom or Wall. Sounds good to me.
In a vacuum I guess. But doesn't maelstrom pulse do the same thing, only if they didn't play bitterblossom I still have targets? Just saying, dead cascades can cost you the game.
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Slave is a terrible choice for the same reason I feel Maelstrom Pulse is sub-optimal against Fae: Sorcery speed. I still keep a few Pulses for the sake of being able to handle Wurmcoil more efficiently and punish bad draws, but in sideboarding I consistently drop to two pulse in favor of Terminates and Bit blasts simply because sorcery speed is such a liability. A card better be damn well backbreaking for me to justify putting myself in the position of being pants'd by a Mistbind/Vendilion Clique. I haven't found Slave to be that card.
For the record, I'm currently a fan of Conrad Kolos' sideboard plan against Fae. As counter-intuitive as it sounds in theory, playing control against Faeries is perfectly viable. Just don't be siding in Shriekmaws to deal with Wurmcoils (RTFC).
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How about Brittle Effigy as an answer to Wurmcoil Engine? It makes acceptable cascade from BBE, can deal with Mistbind Clique and faeries have only [c]Cryptic Command[c] to handle it after it has landed.
Also while testing jund i've found another interesting card for it: Flame Javelin. Again it kills troublesome X/4 creatures like big clique or thoctar, don't messes up elf's cascade onto empty battlefield and provides a huge boost to deck's reach. I had several games when my opponent had stabilized at 4 hp out of bolt range only to be surprised with javelin.
Slave is a terrible choice for the same reason I feel Maelstrom Pulse is sub-optimal against Fae: Sorcery speed. I still keep a few Pulses for the sake of being able to handle Wurmcoil more efficiently and punish bad draws, but in sideboarding I consistently drop to two pulse in favor of Terminates and Bit blasts simply because sorcery speed is such a liability. A card better be damn well backbreaking for me to justify putting myself in the position of being pants'd by a Mistbind/Vendilion Clique. I haven't found Slave to be that card.
For the record, I'm currently a fan of Conrad Kolos' sideboard plan against Fae. As counter-intuitive as it sounds in theory, playing control against Faeries is perfectly viable. Just don't be siding in Shriekmaws to deal with Wurmcoils (RTFC).
I'm generally a huge fan of Kolos' articles, but don't fall in love with his sideboard plan just yet. It may be solid against Faeries, but his decklist will have an extraordinarily tough time against Leyline of Sanctity, Prismatic Omen, and Tempered Steel with the complete lack of Enchantment destruction. No Maelstrom Pulse, no Nature's Claim... A resolved Bitterblossom can only be removed, interestingly enough, by the opponent's own Mistbind Clique or Cryptic Command.
I wonder how much he actually tested the matchup rather than theorycrafted after reading his "Shriekmaw-versus-Wurmcoil Engine" plan. That could obviously just be a writing mistake though, so I'll let it slide
It should be no surprise though that bringing in Volcanic Fallout, Cloudthresher, and Bituminous Blast (along with having Blightning) is good against Faeries. I do, however, like his zero Great Sable Stags.
I wanted to run 25 lands and 3 finks and have 2 fallouts main. I don't know if that is a good idea though. I'm expecting a majority of control decks with a few naya and bad rogue brews.
I wanted to run 25 lands and 3 finks and have 2 fallouts main. I don't know if that is a good idea though. I'm expecting a majority of control decks with a few naya and bad rogue brews.
I think 4x Lightning Bolt is a must. I'd rather see you go down to 2x Pulse or 2x Thoughtseize.
Agreed. I wasn't referencing that article because I like his list, per-se. There are aspects I agree with, such as the value of Terminate over Pulse in this environment (though not to the extent of cutting Pulse entirely). I do however approve of his post-board strategy for Faeries (again, card choices notwithstanding).
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I don't know that I'd want to fall below 3 pulses MD, as it's still one of the best cascades you can get in a tight situation, Bituminous Blast and Bloodbraid almost promise it. Now outside of cascades, it still helps you deal with Omens, Bitterblossom (Fae Tokens of course), and the only matchup it really doesn't do any good is the mirror and naya (since they are running a very similar creature base in a lot of scenarios, makes for tough calls). I guess I could see running 2.
And why no love for GSS dtlerch?
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I think 4x Lightning Bolt is a must. I'd rather see you go down to 2x Pulse or 2x Thoughtseize.
Any justification as to why lightning bolt is an auto 4of? (aside from "its lightning bolt"). It's certainly good against all of the fauna shaman decks popping up, but its bad against 4cc/wargate, and mediocre against fae and the mirror.
as always in magic, a card is good depending on the meta-game.
pulse is good in an enviroment where sorcery speed is acceptable and you dont expect to much mirror matches.
pulse is bad in an enviroment full of counterspells and instant speed cheap spells...and if you expect lots of mirror...
so .... where we are right now?
In a place where Cascade exists and circumvents both flaws. It's also a relatively well costed non-land permanent removal that can easily be a 2 for 1. It's probably the best Targeted removal spell atm, it's only draw back is being sorcery speed.
I've seen players drop Lightning Bolt to 3 of because they don't like seeing it in a Cascade. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but a Jund play group in my area seems to have settled on the idea.
Any justification as to why lightning bolt is an auto 4of? (aside from "its lightning bolt"). It's certainly good against all of the fauna shaman decks popping up, but its bad against 4cc/wargate, and mediocre against fae and the mirror.
As said, it's based on the metagame. Fauna Shaman is a large part of that meta right now, which is typically a must kill since this deck doesn't want to deal with vengevines, demigods, or several sovereigns. It also happens to kill a lot of creatures atm and sets the bar for if certain cards should make decklists or not. This is a reason why I don't like ram-gang in jund or naya. Everyone is playing 4 bolt.
I do think playing 3 bolt is reasonable if you run 3 thoughtseize MD.
I'd cut Blightning before I cut Bolt. Even the control decks run targets for bolts, and cards like Leyline of Sanctity and Obstinate Baloth make for sad times.
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This is almost an exact copy of one of the lists I tried. I liked it a lot but I've since switched it up and added Thoughtseize and a couple Fallout MD. I think 3 Lightning Bolt with 2 Terminate is a good combination. MD answers to things like Mistbinds, Titans, etc. are a good idea.
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I don't know that I'd want to fall below 3 pulses MD, as it's still one of the best cascades you can get in a tight situation, Bituminous Blast and Bloodbraid almost promise it. Now outside of cascades, it still helps you deal with Omens, Bitterblossom (Fae Tokens of course), and the only matchup it really doesn't do any good is the mirror and naya (since they are running a very similar creature base in a lot of scenarios, makes for tough calls). I guess I could see running 2.
And why no love for GSS dtlerch?
Faeries is turning to Wall of Tanglecord so it's no longer an unblockable game ender. Add to that that most other decks in the format play either Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, or some other way to remove it, and it's no longer the epic force that it used to be.
That being said, it's still good I believe my current Jund Sideboard looks like this:
Any justification as to why lightning bolt is an auto 4of? (aside from "its lightning bolt"). It's certainly good against all of the fauna shaman decks popping up, but its bad against 4cc/wargate, and mediocre against fae and the mirror.
Lightning Bolt almost always has targets, especially post-board when you have to deal with Great Sable Stag in almost any Green-based deck. It's always good for 3 damage, and it's only a dead card in the same instances that Blightning is dead too (Leyline of Sanctity).
I believe a response a couple hours ago cited Blightning being cut; I totally agree. In fact, after experimenting with moving Blightning to the sideboard, I'm now experimenting with no Blightning in the entire 75.
that's an extremely great MD imo. I know alot of people have been pre sbing jund with Fallouts MD, but it has tested bad for me when I'm at loss for creatures or when I'm playing against wargate and it doesn't actually accomplish anything. I only really want that card vs naya and fae.
What I might consider is fitting 2-4 Thoughtsieze in MD, it can seriously buy you an advantage. At the same time, no tears will be wept without it, as Blightning is fine for disruption g1, and a solid aggro list will walk all over Fae and the removal will get naya. So, overrall I give your list 4.5 stars.
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I think I'll go with Slave of Bolas
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he boarded in finks not sure about wurmcoil because i killed him T5 game 2 i just overwhelmed him form the start, he did have leyline turn 0 in both games but i really didnt feel it was that hard to play around. in fact i pulsed prismatic omen instead of leyline game 1 to keep him off his combo. the threat density of our deck is so much higher than wargate/omens if you can keep him off his combo we just win. T2 leech,T3 ramgang,T4 BBE cascade into ramgang pretty much seals the deal
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In a vacuum I guess. But doesn't maelstrom pulse do the same thing, only if they didn't play bitterblossom I still have targets? Just saying, dead cascades can cost you the game.
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For the record, I'm currently a fan of Conrad Kolos' sideboard plan against Fae. As counter-intuitive as it sounds in theory, playing control against Faeries is perfectly viable. Just don't be siding in Shriekmaws to deal with Wurmcoils (RTFC).
Also while testing jund i've found another interesting card for it: Flame Javelin. Again it kills troublesome X/4 creatures like big clique or thoctar, don't messes up elf's cascade onto empty battlefield and provides a huge boost to deck's reach. I had several games when my opponent had stabilized at 4 hp out of bolt range only to be surprised with javelin.
I'm generally a huge fan of Kolos' articles, but don't fall in love with his sideboard plan just yet. It may be solid against Faeries, but his decklist will have an extraordinarily tough time against Leyline of Sanctity, Prismatic Omen, and Tempered Steel with the complete lack of Enchantment destruction. No Maelstrom Pulse, no Nature's Claim... A resolved Bitterblossom can only be removed, interestingly enough, by the opponent's own Mistbind Clique or Cryptic Command.
I wonder how much he actually tested the matchup rather than theorycrafted after reading his "Shriekmaw-versus-Wurmcoil Engine" plan. That could obviously just be a writing mistake though, so I'll let it slide
It should be no surprise though that bringing in Volcanic Fallout, Cloudthresher, and Bituminous Blast (along with having Blightning) is good against Faeries. I do, however, like his zero Great Sable Stags.
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Fauna Shaman
4 Putrid Leech
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Anathemancer
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thought Seize
4 volcanic Fallout
3 GSS
3 Terminate
2 Deglamer/Slave of Bolas (I like Deglamer)
I wanted to run 25 lands and 3 finks and have 2 fallouts main. I don't know if that is a good idea though. I'm expecting a majority of control decks with a few naya and bad rogue brews.
I think 4x Lightning Bolt is a must. I'd rather see you go down to 2x Pulse or 2x Thoughtseize.
Agreed. I wasn't referencing that article because I like his list, per-se. There are aspects I agree with, such as the value of Terminate over Pulse in this environment (though not to the extent of cutting Pulse entirely). I do however approve of his post-board strategy for Faeries (again, card choices notwithstanding).
And why no love for GSS dtlerch?
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Any justification as to why lightning bolt is an auto 4of? (aside from "its lightning bolt"). It's certainly good against all of the fauna shaman decks popping up, but its bad against 4cc/wargate, and mediocre against fae and the mirror.
pulse is good in an enviroment where sorcery speed is acceptable and you dont expect to much mirror matches.
pulse is bad in an enviroment full of counterspells and instant speed cheap spells...and if you expect lots of mirror...
so .... where we are right now?
In a place where Cascade exists and circumvents both flaws. It's also a relatively well costed non-land permanent removal that can easily be a 2 for 1. It's probably the best Targeted removal spell atm, it's only draw back is being sorcery speed.
I've seen players drop Lightning Bolt to 3 of because they don't like seeing it in a Cascade. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but a Jund play group in my area seems to have settled on the idea.
As said, it's based on the metagame. Fauna Shaman is a large part of that meta right now, which is typically a must kill since this deck doesn't want to deal with vengevines, demigods, or several sovereigns. It also happens to kill a lot of creatures atm and sets the bar for if certain cards should make decklists or not. This is a reason why I don't like ram-gang in jund or naya. Everyone is playing 4 bolt.
I do think playing 3 bolt is reasonable if you run 3 thoughtseize MD.
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4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Demigod of Revenge
4x Kitchen Finks
4x Putrid Leech
3x Anathemancer
3x Fauna Shaman
Spells(12)
4x Blightning
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Terminate
4x Raging Ravine
4x Savage Lands
4x Twilight Mire
3x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Swamp
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Forest
1x Graven Cairns
1x Mountain
4x Thoughtseize
4x Volcanic Fallout
3x Great Sable Stag
2x Deglamer
1x Anathemancer
1x Maelstrom Pulse
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This is almost an exact copy of one of the lists I tried. I liked it a lot but I've since switched it up and added Thoughtseize and a couple Fallout MD. I think 3 Lightning Bolt with 2 Terminate is a good combination. MD answers to things like Mistbinds, Titans, etc. are a good idea.
Faeries is turning to Wall of Tanglecord so it's no longer an unblockable game ender. Add to that that most other decks in the format play either Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, or some other way to remove it, and it's no longer the epic force that it used to be.
That being said, it's still good I believe my current Jund Sideboard looks like this:
1 Thoughtseize
2 Deglamer
1 Nature's Claim
2 Great Sable Stag
4 Volcanic Fallout
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Cloudthresher
1 Terminate
2 Obstinate Baloth
Lightning Bolt almost always has targets, especially post-board when you have to deal with Great Sable Stag in almost any Green-based deck. It's always good for 3 damage, and it's only a dead card in the same instances that Blightning is dead too (Leyline of Sanctity).
I believe a response a couple hours ago cited Blightning being cut; I totally agree. In fact, after experimenting with moving Blightning to the sideboard, I'm now experimenting with no Blightning in the entire 75.
that's an extremely great MD imo. I know alot of people have been pre sbing jund with Fallouts MD, but it has tested bad for me when I'm at loss for creatures or when I'm playing against wargate and it doesn't actually accomplish anything. I only really want that card vs naya and fae.
What I might consider is fitting 2-4 Thoughtsieze in MD, it can seriously buy you an advantage. At the same time, no tears will be wept without it, as Blightning is fine for disruption g1, and a solid aggro list will walk all over Fae and the removal will get naya. So, overrall I give your list 4.5 stars.
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