How has meadowgrain been working? I'm expecting a lot of Red out a semi-undefined format this winter.
If red is prominent, he seems to be the guy. But what about the squad hawks out of the side? It's obviously not as good as Ranger tutor, ro spectral's 3 guys for 3 mana. But I'm pretty sure it's the next best thing.
4 hawk, 4 spectral, 2-3 Ranger... you're almost guaranteed creature advantage, or at least a blightning shield.
I didn't have all the cards I wanted for the sideboard, it was kind of built last min with what I had on me. I'm not sure what the board would look like now. The ascensions were never used. Would consider Devout Lightcaster and Forge tender instead of the walkers? Lapse of Certianty are certainly worth consideration.
Other options to consider: Windbrisk Heights worth using ?
Elspeth was awesome all night I definatly would rather run her than ajani. I'm not sure I would want to loose anything in the list for the meadowgrains. Maybe student. Let me know what you think.
I'm going to vouch for adding Heights to the list. back in LOR/SHA Standard, B/W Tokens, WW and Kithkin were as savage as they were thanks to that card. being able to throw out an Honor, Ajani, Ranger or some other game-changer for W while doing what you're supposed to be doing anyway is sick. aside from that, the card just increased card selection and effectively drew you a card.
granted, Tectonic Edge might make it a bit worse, all things considered.
as for Forge Tenders, I'd say if you're going to play them, replace the Firewalkers with them. they're more aggressive what with being a one-drop, and being able to use them to shut down a kill spell is clutch as opposed to having a Dragon's Claw effect. if you wanted to have them alongside Firewalker, I'd say cut War Priest, Leyline and the fourth Brave (three should be easy enough to draw into, even moreso if you have Heights in the deck).
as for Knight of Meadowgrain, it's a tough call. I'd definitely try to squeeze them in there over Student if you want a more aggressive start. Elspeth turns her into a Baneslayer every turn and it's tough to beat that. however, if you do start running her it'll force you to extend more than Student would.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
I took White Weenie to a local tourny at my store, managed to take first going 4-0 against Vampires, Artifact Aggro, Jund, and Merfolk. Here's my list;
Match 1 wasn't really a match, I was playing against Standard Vampires, the quality of my cards Brave the Elements to back them up made this match a walk in the park.
Match 2 was against Artifact Aggro, I lost the die roll. My opponent played a U/W man land and passed. I ran out a Steppe Lynx. My opponent ran out a Etherium Sculptor. I played my Fetch attacked for 4 and added a second Steppe Lynx to the team. My opponent played Master of Etherium, attacked and passed. I got a land off a Knight of White Orchid, added a fetch to the board and attacked with my 2 Steppe Lynx. He let the damage through and I made them 6/7's. 12 damage, I added a Knight of White Orchid and passed. He played a land a Grand Architect and a Wurmcoil engine. I flashed the land and Brave so we went to game two.
Game 2, I got an early Student of Warfair brought him to to 3/3, gave him 2 Honor the Pure. My opponent got out a turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine, I kept a Path to Exile up and put a Spectral Prossesion into play. Pathed the Wurm and started to work on getting Student to Double Striking. He Blocked the ground with a Master of Etherium, Grand Architect, and a couple nuggets. I managed to hide a Brave under a Heights combined with the one in hand two swings with a 6/6 Double striker with pro blue got me the game.
Match 3, This is against Jund, Main deck Volcanic Fallouts. My main Goal for this match is to get my men out of Lightning Bolt range, not to over extend my hand and protect my bigger threats from Maelstrom Pulse. I managed to do it fairly well, Steppe Lynx was my leader. Bullying past a lonesome Putrid Leech as a 4/5. My opponent played a comes into play tapped land on turn 4, loosing the momentum Bloodbraid Elf could have given him. Brave the Elements Managed to get those last few points through a held back turn 5 Bloodbraid Elf, and 2x Putrid Leech. Netting me game 1.
Game 2 I board in my Kitchen Finks, Path to Exile, Kor Firewalker, and the Burton Forge Tender. Taking out 1 Steppe Lynx, 1 Student of Warfair, 1 Figure of Destiny, 1 Elspeth, and 4 Knight of White Orcid. I take out the One drops to avoid seeing multiples, which makes Maelstrom Pulse a bit worse in this match. Anyway I go to 6 on the draw keeping 4 lands 1 Student of Warfair and 1 Kor Firewalker. My Student gets bolted and the Firewalker meets an Great Stable Stag. After drawing into Land 5-6 I see Steppe Lynx times 2. Unfortunitly I made the choice to run out my fetches to thin the lands out of my deck hopefully improving my draws. Bloodbraid Elf in to Blightning and Bloodbraid Elf into Malestrom Pulse solidifies game 3.
Game 3 I take out 2 Firewalker and put in 2 Ethersworn Cannonist. This game goes pretty good, I start with a Steppe Lynx and Honor the Pure, to my opponents 2 come into play tap lands. Turn 3 my Lynx gets bolted and I play a Spectral Procession. My Oppenent made to mistake of not playing Volcanic Fallout on his turn. Brave the Elements set him back when he tried it in my combat phase. I put out a Ethersworn Cannonist and passed. Malestrom Pulse Found it's way to my Prossesion. I attack and add a kitchen finks to the board. He meets the Finks with a Finks and Blightings the last 2 cards out of my hand. I keep my cannonist back because I'm in top deck mode and Bloodbraid can change the momentum of the game. Finks traded, he did nothing on his turn. Finks traded again however I managed to top deck a Ranger of Eos searching out a Student of Warfair, and Figure of Destiny. Figure came out first and won the game when it went unanswered to an 8/8.
Match 4 This is against Merfolk. Your standard list 11-12 Lords Banneret, Adapt, Curse Catcher, etc... I win the die roll, looking at 2x Steppe Lynx, 1x Spectral Procession, 1x Knight of White Orcid, 2x Fetch lands, and a Plains. I run out both Lynxes and held back on the procession until he taps enough to not threat a Mana Leak. I manage to add the Knight to the board, not grabbing a Plains, however drawing into a Windbrisk Heights and Plains to keep my Lynxs going. Turn 5 he plays a come into play tapped land and a Merfolk Sovgerin. I take advange of the opening with Spectral, hiding an honor the pure under my Heights. The next two turns Cryptic Command Held off the board and I managed to add a Figure of Destiny and a Knight of Meadowgrain. Eventually, he ran out of commands, I found a Brave the elements add the hideaway Brave makes for end of game.
Game 2 I take out 2 Ranger of Eos, 1 Figure of Destiny and I put in 3 Kitchen Finks because they block the turn they come in and still get to turn sideways the turn after, trading gaining 4 life and still leaving board presence, seemed like a no brainer. Anyway the game went simple, he didn't get a play until turn 3 with a Merfolk Reegery. I already had a Figure of Destiny, Knight of Meadowgrain and added a Finks on my turn 3. My opponent played a Merfolk Sovgrin and kept them back. I held a path to exile and attacked with the team. He blocked my Figure and Knight of Meadowgrain, I pathed the one that blocked Figure so Knight first stiked the other down. I make Figure a 2/2. My opponent tapped me down the next turn and drew a card. Figure became a 4/4. He put down a Coralhelm Commander. But it wasn't enough to stop the overwhelming board presence. A turn later I got the final points of damage through.
All in all I think it shows that the deck is a major contender in the current meta. Being a turn faster than most aggro and topping off the red zone with Brave the Elements when decks like Jund and Doran clog up the board makes it very difficult for them to have a fighting chance. I haven't tested against the control builds yet, I was hoping to get pair against some here but as long as I don't over extend my hand I don't think the match will be to far in their favor.
The only change I'm considering is taking out 1 Figure of Destiny which feels like my worst 1 drop to naturally draw in your opening hand and moving the 4th Path to Exile into the main. Lords are everywhere, Doran gets pushed back when they don't have Doran, and in you remove the creatures that differ in color than the rest of the creatures it makes Brave the Elements that much better.
Whelp, I took WW to a Grand Prix Trial in Connecticut. Since I didn't plan on going to Grand Prix Atlanta and my opponent was in the finals we decided to offer Prize for Byes in a completely mutual conclusion. Anyway it wasn't a large tournament going 4 swiss cut to top 4. I did change my SB from the list above to the following.
I'm not going to go into much detail with this report as it seems I'm basically typing this to myself. If I'm wrong and there are readers out there that are interested let me know, I have enough notes from the day to type up a fairly accurate report.
Round 1 I played against Elves. I don't like this match up, at all and one of the few reasons I put Ratchet Bomb and Linvala in my board. The Bomb at 1 will slow the player down, you can save your Paths for Elvish Arch Druid or Ezuri and if you have board advantage when Linvala hits the table they should work together well enough to slow the clock down enough to win. The Ratchet Bombs are really in their for U/B Polymorph, to keep it a 0 until Polymorph is played and whip the board of targets, lets you keep Path open for Mutavault. And the Linvala in the the board for Conley Wood's Ooze Combo, Since the LD package is very weak in this match the deck needs to combo off to race, with Relic and Linvala in gets pretty hard. This match didn't go very well. Game 1 he managed to throw out a couple early elves to block some beats and still manages a turn 6 Emerkul. Pretty demoralized, I take out my Ranger of Eos, Elspeth, and 1 KoM I put in Bomb and Linvala. I keep a hand with Figure, Brave, 2 Spectral Procession, 3 Lands. Traded my Figure with an early Nettle Sentenal thinking my Processions and brave will be enough he gets down a Scattershot Archer and it buys him more than enough time to build up an army draw a ton of cards and run me down.
0-1
Match 2 I play against Artifact Aggro. An easy match, my men out class his in the first couple of turns and Path to Exile is very strong removing a lord or a blocker when they try to gang up on your guys to clear the board a little. I put in Ratchet Bomb incase he ends up with a Springleaf//Mox Opal pener and shoots out acouple little guys. Game 2 went just as easy, I got both bombs and put 1 at 2 and the other at 0. He had a Thopter Foundery, 2 Scullers, and a Mox opal in play, I have a 3/3 Student of Warfair and a 2/2 Kitchen Finks. I blow up the bomb on 2 during his upkeep to try and eat his lands for a turn and leave him with no board presence, getting back a couple cards in the process. He fell for it, sacking his 2 drops to the Thopter Foundry, I let his resolve but keep the first ratchets ability on the stack and blew up my Bomb for 0, effectively casting Plague Wind For the end investment of 0 cards.
1-1
Match 3 I played against Doran. This is an easy match for me, Brave the Elements is extremely strong here, Path at Doran ruins a full attack step...and I won the Die roll. Not much to it here. I board in 2 Purge, 1 Path, and 1 Ranger. Quick 2-0.
2-1
Match 4 Was against that Ooze Combo, mirror list of Conley Wood's, all 75 cards. I tested against this deck, the LD package is weak. I Path to exile a turn 2 Fauna Shaman and Bring the beats. He didn't manage to get enough on the board to stop the attacks even through and evoked Sheikmaw brought back with Makeshift Manniquin. No where close to comboing. I put in Relic and Linvala, take out 1 of each on my 1 drops and Ranger of Eos. he mulls to 6 keeps a 2 lander misses land drop 3 for 2 more turns. I win.
3-1
Top 4 is me 2 Jund Decks, and a Faeries. I play against Jund. This match-up is why I play WW. It's strongly in your favor and with smart playing Volcanic Fallout and Infest don't make a difference in the match. Brave the Elements and First Strike are both incredible here, as well as level up if you play around Lightning Bolt. The key here is in your level uppers. Look for the long game here, devote a minimum amount of mana to your guys and devote a small amount of men on the board. They're looking for 2 for 1's to gain an advantage, if you leave you worst cads in the match in your hand then Blightning don't hit Brave of Spectral Procession which means the deck only has Bloodbraid Elf for the 2 for 1 advantage. You have Windbrisk Heights to further of set the Jund's players advantage. An easy 2-0 for me. I do my usual side out when I see Malestrom Pulse, 1 of each of my 1 drops, and I take out Elspeth. Put in Forge Tender, 2 Celestial Purges, and 4th Path. Thinking that Great Stable Stag and Baloth replace some red men. 2-0, I played through Volcanic Fallout both games, he couldn't gain a solid enough card advanage to off set my much larger men late game.
I won 24 packs, I think I'm taking out 1 Purge, from the Board, the matches where I put them in usally put in any cards they can that's not Red or Black so I never want to see more than 1. And I'm taking out the Journey to Nowhere being cards that never come in. I want at least 1 more Ratchet Bomb, and I want to devote SB slots against the Valkut//Scapeshift decks. It sounds bad but Leyline of Sanctity might be the answer. And I'm also looking for ways to improve the Elf match, it feels like such a losing battle they have such a fast clock with the ability to block early damage.
I typed alot more than I planned on, sorry to go so wrong. I you guys have any ideas I'm overlooking for SB changes please let me know and lets try to get a discussion going. Thanks for reading.
good reads mustache. um sb wht is ratchet bomb for? also ther is 3 t1-t2 decks that rely heavily on two drop enchantments so maybe wispmare is an option
i saw this build in an article recently its more a b/w then ww but i think it still needs to be discussed
Looks similar to the old black/white tokens lists from when it was standard-legal. I'm not convinced by Marshall's Anthem, though. I think I'd rather have more Path.
I'm not convinced B/W Tokens is favorable over G/W tokens. Zealous Persecution, Bitterblossom, Tidehuller Sculler, and Thoughtsieze are all awsome cards, but are any of them better than an overrun effect? Noble Hierarch, Nest Invader, Garruk, and some kind of Overrun are all at your disposal. Now some people like the disruption over explosive-ness, it was the same in standard between the two decks. But I like how strong Nest Invader is without an anthem it's still the best way to activate a turn 3 Windbrisk Heights and play the rest of the game a couple turns faster than your opponent. I'm not sure if either choice is better than Brave the Elements and Honor The Pure but what ever you choose there has to be better options than Marshall's Anthem. I'm thinking one of the 3 on color Lieges would be the best bet.
@ Dark Myth, I have Ratchet Bomb in the deck against Polymorph, Elves, and Artifact Aggro. But mainly Polymorph, if you get it out early, and keep it at 0 you can let Bitterblossom bleed them without having to worry about them using them to combo, save Path to Exiles for Mutavaults when they try to combo. It really helps the match. And it's one of the few things in the decks arsenal that can actually deal with Elves, that match up is awful for us.
I don't think it is. The WW list that has been adapted from PT Amsterdam was run over Kithkin because you can add board presence with less cards via Level Up effects, which lets you play little guys that can quickly become out of range for Punishing Fire. Kithkin was pushed out of favor because Fire can kill a lot more in it.
I like Kithkin but I haven't bothered putting a list together for it. Wizened Cenn is a super powerful card...But Student of Warfair and Steppe Lynx are both stronger than Goldmeadow Stalwart.
Turn 3 seems a little weak, but without needing to save your lands to do a lot of leveling up you can play a lot more lord effects, between Windbrisk Heights and Liege your also able to take advantage of the red zone with built in combat tricks. The two big cards I'd like to add are Mirror Entity and Mirror Weave. With 2 creature lord effects Mirror Weave seems like a no brainer.
Don't take my list as something great, I just threw it together trying remember how thy used to be played.
Was never a huge fan of Thistledown - always preferred Cloudgoat as a finisher instead of using Thistledown as a secondary (or even tertiary, behind Honor of the Pure) lord/pump source. I think I used to run Rangers, but probably 2 tops as your only effective target is Figure. Stalwart late-game is just awful. I like the inclusion of Brave, but I also don't want to count Goldmane out just yet.
Is there currently any major way to improve the elf matchup? So far the only things ive come up with would be using ethersworn canonist to buy time until you can get either Linvalla or DoJ. The next thing i was thinking of trying would be to side in Pithing Needles also to shut down Ezuri and Fauna Shaman.
I'm a little confused as to why the WW thread in Extended Competitive isn't getting more traffic. Is WW not a top deck anymore w/ the rotation? I mean, it didn't lose THAT much since Rietzl's win in Amsterdam - just some additional fuel for Steppe Lynx w/ the Flagstones of Trokair and the Force Spike variant Mana Tithe (as well as minor SB options like Rule of Law and Angel's Grace). Is BW tokens a better choice for this Extended meta or is the fact that so many Extended decks that include U in their mana base are including Cryptic Command and we're afraid of them tapping down the WW army for a turn? I haven't seen WW pop up too much since Amsterdam and I'm just wondering why not.
White Weenie has only one plan and I do not feel it does it better than Tempered Steel. I do not feel White Weenie is a real deck in the current metagame.
Really? I guess I can't argue too much because I haven't played it and the Pros did well at Worlds w/ it, but it seems that WW can possibly sustain some board wipes w/ Ranger of Eos, Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Spectral Procession whereas Tempered Steel decks only have Ranger. Yes, I agree that artifact aggro has more explosiveness and more pump spells, but there is alot of disruption in this current meta and WW seems to be more stable than artifact aggro, not to mention the protection of Brave the Elements for all the creatures instead of just a few copies of Etched Champion. The artifact aggro seems to be very similar to the WW Quest decks in Standard - if you have a good draw it's almost GG; if not, it's a big struggle to get there - I don't think it's that cut and dry for WW.
To me, both decks have a card time getting around Cryptic Command - it's really the only card that I can't find any answers for. I don't like Lapse of Certainty because I don't want to keep 3 mana untapped just to put it on top of their library only for them to cast it again. I've been trying to dig into Lorwyn standard to find out what WW decks used to combat Cryptic when Faeries were ruling standard and can't find anything. I thought of Silence but I'm not sold on it. Any ideas from anybody other than Lapse?
I really dont like luminarch as the "strong" Control decks nowadays are either faeries (which will probably filter some flying damage), or 5cc, which play bolts and fallouts and will surely bring them in against WW, plus they can criptic the luminarch to your hand too.
Believe it or not, ive had success with using Leyline of Sanctity vs control. As long as its not bounced by cryptic or destroyed by esper charm, it stops jace from fatesealing you, cruel's namesake card, and cryptic from tapping down your team.
Believe it or not, ive had success with using Leyline of Sanctity vs control. As long as its not bounced by cryptic or destroyed by esper charm, it stops jace from fatesealing you, cruel's namesake card, and cryptic from tapping down your team.
I don't think Leyline of Sanctity stops Cryptic's "tapping down team" ability. It doesn't particularily target a single opponent or a single creature - it just taps all other creatures - I could be wrong about this though. If it's true, you're better off just running Runed Halo and just naming the card that will cause the most trouble (Valakut in Scapeshift/Wargate decks, Blightning in Jund, Cruel Ultimatium in 4-5CC, etc). Plus, you have to pretty much dedicate 4 SB slots for the Leyline whereas you can probably get away w/ less w/ the Halo.
After reading alot of articles online and reading some of the responses here, I think that pure WW probably isn't the way to go for this current Extended meta as far as aggro goes. You're going to need to splash another color and have some sort of response to all the counters in 4-5CC, Fae, Wargate, as well as have protection from Jund's targeted removal AND get around aggro board wipes like Volcanic Fallout and Firespout. I think this means that Boros is the way to go honestly, and splashing red for SB cards like Guttural Response and possibly Ricochet Trap can help w/ the U-control matchups. This also means potentially more explosive starts w/ Goblin Guide and also bringing in more fetches w/ the Scalding Tarn to help the Lynxx grow consistently on attacks.
"tap all creatures your opponents control"-cryptic command
Forget You, i believe you're right. Okay, now i know that was possibly my opponent's misplay then. I like the idea of Runed Halo and I could use the same number of slots I have been (2) Hmm...
I am intrigued by a boros idea, as one could also use Vexing Shusher to protect against counterspells, I could even see this being another thread soon, but for now Im going to stick with WW. I believe there is still untapped potential as of yet.
The deck Ive had the most problems with are elves, besides boardwipes Ive only come up with Linvalla, Keeper of Secrets and Ethersworn Canonist to slow them down...
I think Pithing Needle would be useful against Ezuri and Fauna Shaman, also in other matchups against Jace 2.0 and other stuff.
1 Lapse? Wouldn't you just be better off running a few copies in the side and upping the Ranger count to 3? I'd think you'd never be sad to see a Ranger off the top.
Oblivion ring is a super-flexible card that can deal with almost everything, but his cmc of 3 is just too expensive for an aggro deck like ww, you don't want to expend 3 mana in one spell that can be countered so easy in the current meta, if that happens you lose a turn. You want to level up a guy, maybe play another dude and save a mana for brave or path to exile, that is a good example of what to do in a turn with 3 manas, I really like o-ring, but it's to expensive and slow.
If red is prominent, he seems to be the guy. But what about the squad hawks out of the side? It's obviously not as good as Ranger tutor, ro spectral's 3 guys for 3 mana. But I'm pretty sure it's the next best thing.
4 hawk, 4 spectral, 2-3 Ranger... you're almost guaranteed creature advantage, or at least a blightning shield.
I'm going to vouch for adding Heights to the list. back in LOR/SHA Standard, B/W Tokens, WW and Kithkin were as savage as they were thanks to that card. being able to throw out an Honor, Ajani, Ranger or some other game-changer for W while doing what you're supposed to be doing anyway is sick. aside from that, the card just increased card selection and effectively drew you a card.
granted, Tectonic Edge might make it a bit worse, all things considered.
as for Forge Tenders, I'd say if you're going to play them, replace the Firewalkers with them. they're more aggressive what with being a one-drop, and being able to use them to shut down a kill spell is clutch as opposed to having a Dragon's Claw effect. if you wanted to have them alongside Firewalker, I'd say cut War Priest, Leyline and the fourth Brave (three should be easy enough to draw into, even moreso if you have Heights in the deck).
as for Knight of Meadowgrain, it's a tough call. I'd definitely try to squeeze them in there over Student if you want a more aggressive start. Elspeth turns her into a Baneslayer every turn and it's tough to beat that. however, if you do start running her it'll force you to extend more than Student would.
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Student of Warfair
4x Figure of Destiny
4x Knight of White Orcid
3x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Spectral Procession
2x Ranger of Eos
3x Path to Exile
4x Brave the Elements
4x Honor the Pure
1x Elspeth, Knight Errent
Lands(23)
4x Arid Mesa
4x Marsh Flats
4x Windbrisk Heights
11x Plains
1x Burton Forge-Tender
3x Kor Firewalker
1x Path to Exile
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Ranger of Eos
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Wispermare
Match 1 wasn't really a match, I was playing against Standard Vampires, the quality of my cards Brave the Elements to back them up made this match a walk in the park.
Match 2 was against Artifact Aggro, I lost the die roll. My opponent played a U/W man land and passed. I ran out a Steppe Lynx. My opponent ran out a Etherium Sculptor. I played my Fetch attacked for 4 and added a second Steppe Lynx to the team. My opponent played Master of Etherium, attacked and passed. I got a land off a Knight of White Orchid, added a fetch to the board and attacked with my 2 Steppe Lynx. He let the damage through and I made them 6/7's. 12 damage, I added a Knight of White Orchid and passed. He played a land a Grand Architect and a Wurmcoil engine. I flashed the land and Brave so we went to game two.
Game 2, I got an early Student of Warfair brought him to to 3/3, gave him 2 Honor the Pure. My opponent got out a turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine, I kept a Path to Exile up and put a Spectral Prossesion into play. Pathed the Wurm and started to work on getting Student to Double Striking. He Blocked the ground with a Master of Etherium, Grand Architect, and a couple nuggets. I managed to hide a Brave under a Heights combined with the one in hand two swings with a 6/6 Double striker with pro blue got me the game.
Match 3, This is against Jund, Main deck Volcanic Fallouts. My main Goal for this match is to get my men out of Lightning Bolt range, not to over extend my hand and protect my bigger threats from Maelstrom Pulse. I managed to do it fairly well, Steppe Lynx was my leader. Bullying past a lonesome Putrid Leech as a 4/5. My opponent played a comes into play tapped land on turn 4, loosing the momentum Bloodbraid Elf could have given him. Brave the Elements Managed to get those last few points through a held back turn 5 Bloodbraid Elf, and 2x Putrid Leech. Netting me game 1.
Game 2 I board in my Kitchen Finks, Path to Exile, Kor Firewalker, and the Burton Forge Tender. Taking out 1 Steppe Lynx, 1 Student of Warfair, 1 Figure of Destiny, 1 Elspeth, and 4 Knight of White Orcid. I take out the One drops to avoid seeing multiples, which makes Maelstrom Pulse a bit worse in this match. Anyway I go to 6 on the draw keeping 4 lands 1 Student of Warfair and 1 Kor Firewalker. My Student gets bolted and the Firewalker meets an Great Stable Stag. After drawing into Land 5-6 I see Steppe Lynx times 2. Unfortunitly I made the choice to run out my fetches to thin the lands out of my deck hopefully improving my draws. Bloodbraid Elf in to Blightning and Bloodbraid Elf into Malestrom Pulse solidifies game 3.
Game 3 I take out 2 Firewalker and put in 2 Ethersworn Cannonist. This game goes pretty good, I start with a Steppe Lynx and Honor the Pure, to my opponents 2 come into play tap lands. Turn 3 my Lynx gets bolted and I play a Spectral Procession. My Oppenent made to mistake of not playing Volcanic Fallout on his turn. Brave the Elements set him back when he tried it in my combat phase. I put out a Ethersworn Cannonist and passed. Malestrom Pulse Found it's way to my Prossesion. I attack and add a kitchen finks to the board. He meets the Finks with a Finks and Blightings the last 2 cards out of my hand. I keep my cannonist back because I'm in top deck mode and Bloodbraid can change the momentum of the game. Finks traded, he did nothing on his turn. Finks traded again however I managed to top deck a Ranger of Eos searching out a Student of Warfair, and Figure of Destiny. Figure came out first and won the game when it went unanswered to an 8/8.
Match 4 This is against Merfolk. Your standard list 11-12 Lords Banneret, Adapt, Curse Catcher, etc... I win the die roll, looking at 2x Steppe Lynx, 1x Spectral Procession, 1x Knight of White Orcid, 2x Fetch lands, and a Plains. I run out both Lynxes and held back on the procession until he taps enough to not threat a Mana Leak. I manage to add the Knight to the board, not grabbing a Plains, however drawing into a Windbrisk Heights and Plains to keep my Lynxs going. Turn 5 he plays a come into play tapped land and a Merfolk Sovgerin. I take advange of the opening with Spectral, hiding an honor the pure under my Heights. The next two turns Cryptic Command Held off the board and I managed to add a Figure of Destiny and a Knight of Meadowgrain. Eventually, he ran out of commands, I found a Brave the elements add the hideaway Brave makes for end of game.
Game 2 I take out 2 Ranger of Eos, 1 Figure of Destiny and I put in 3 Kitchen Finks because they block the turn they come in and still get to turn sideways the turn after, trading gaining 4 life and still leaving board presence, seemed like a no brainer. Anyway the game went simple, he didn't get a play until turn 3 with a Merfolk Reegery. I already had a Figure of Destiny, Knight of Meadowgrain and added a Finks on my turn 3. My opponent played a Merfolk Sovgrin and kept them back. I held a path to exile and attacked with the team. He blocked my Figure and Knight of Meadowgrain, I pathed the one that blocked Figure so Knight first stiked the other down. I make Figure a 2/2. My opponent tapped me down the next turn and drew a card. Figure became a 4/4. He put down a Coralhelm Commander. But it wasn't enough to stop the overwhelming board presence. A turn later I got the final points of damage through.
All in all I think it shows that the deck is a major contender in the current meta. Being a turn faster than most aggro and topping off the red zone with Brave the Elements when decks like Jund and Doran clog up the board makes it very difficult for them to have a fighting chance. I haven't tested against the control builds yet, I was hoping to get pair against some here but as long as I don't over extend my hand I don't think the match will be to far in their favor.
The only change I'm considering is taking out 1 Figure of Destiny which feels like my worst 1 drop to naturally draw in your opening hand and moving the 4th Path to Exile into the main. Lords are everywhere, Doran gets pushed back when they don't have Doran, and in you remove the creatures that differ in color than the rest of the creatures it makes Brave the Elements that much better.
1x Burton Forge-Tender
1x Path to Exile
1x Ranger of Eos
3x Celestial Purge
2x Journey to Nowhere
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Relic of Progentius
2x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
I'm not going to go into much detail with this report as it seems I'm basically typing this to myself. If I'm wrong and there are readers out there that are interested let me know, I have enough notes from the day to type up a fairly accurate report.
Round 1 I played against Elves. I don't like this match up, at all and one of the few reasons I put Ratchet Bomb and Linvala in my board. The Bomb at 1 will slow the player down, you can save your Paths for Elvish Arch Druid or Ezuri and if you have board advantage when Linvala hits the table they should work together well enough to slow the clock down enough to win. The Ratchet Bombs are really in their for U/B Polymorph, to keep it a 0 until Polymorph is played and whip the board of targets, lets you keep Path open for Mutavault. And the Linvala in the the board for Conley Wood's Ooze Combo, Since the LD package is very weak in this match the deck needs to combo off to race, with Relic and Linvala in gets pretty hard. This match didn't go very well. Game 1 he managed to throw out a couple early elves to block some beats and still manages a turn 6 Emerkul. Pretty demoralized, I take out my Ranger of Eos, Elspeth, and 1 KoM I put in Bomb and Linvala. I keep a hand with Figure, Brave, 2 Spectral Procession, 3 Lands. Traded my Figure with an early Nettle Sentenal thinking my Processions and brave will be enough he gets down a Scattershot Archer and it buys him more than enough time to build up an army draw a ton of cards and run me down.
0-1
Match 2 I play against Artifact Aggro. An easy match, my men out class his in the first couple of turns and Path to Exile is very strong removing a lord or a blocker when they try to gang up on your guys to clear the board a little. I put in Ratchet Bomb incase he ends up with a Springleaf//Mox Opal pener and shoots out acouple little guys. Game 2 went just as easy, I got both bombs and put 1 at 2 and the other at 0. He had a Thopter Foundery, 2 Scullers, and a Mox opal in play, I have a 3/3 Student of Warfair and a 2/2 Kitchen Finks. I blow up the bomb on 2 during his upkeep to try and eat his lands for a turn and leave him with no board presence, getting back a couple cards in the process. He fell for it, sacking his 2 drops to the Thopter Foundry, I let his resolve but keep the first ratchets ability on the stack and blew up my Bomb for 0, effectively casting Plague Wind For the end investment of 0 cards.
1-1
Match 3 I played against Doran. This is an easy match for me, Brave the Elements is extremely strong here, Path at Doran ruins a full attack step...and I won the Die roll. Not much to it here. I board in 2 Purge, 1 Path, and 1 Ranger. Quick 2-0.
2-1
Match 4 Was against that Ooze Combo, mirror list of Conley Wood's, all 75 cards. I tested against this deck, the LD package is weak. I Path to exile a turn 2 Fauna Shaman and Bring the beats. He didn't manage to get enough on the board to stop the attacks even through and evoked Sheikmaw brought back with Makeshift Manniquin. No where close to comboing. I put in Relic and Linvala, take out 1 of each on my 1 drops and Ranger of Eos. he mulls to 6 keeps a 2 lander misses land drop 3 for 2 more turns. I win.
3-1
Top 4 is me 2 Jund Decks, and a Faeries. I play against Jund. This match-up is why I play WW. It's strongly in your favor and with smart playing Volcanic Fallout and Infest don't make a difference in the match. Brave the Elements and First Strike are both incredible here, as well as level up if you play around Lightning Bolt. The key here is in your level uppers. Look for the long game here, devote a minimum amount of mana to your guys and devote a small amount of men on the board. They're looking for 2 for 1's to gain an advantage, if you leave you worst cads in the match in your hand then Blightning don't hit Brave of Spectral Procession which means the deck only has Bloodbraid Elf for the 2 for 1 advantage. You have Windbrisk Heights to further of set the Jund's players advantage. An easy 2-0 for me. I do my usual side out when I see Malestrom Pulse, 1 of each of my 1 drops, and I take out Elspeth. Put in Forge Tender, 2 Celestial Purges, and 4th Path. Thinking that Great Stable Stag and Baloth replace some red men. 2-0, I played through Volcanic Fallout both games, he couldn't gain a solid enough card advanage to off set my much larger men late game.
I won 24 packs, I think I'm taking out 1 Purge, from the Board, the matches where I put them in usally put in any cards they can that's not Red or Black so I never want to see more than 1. And I'm taking out the Journey to Nowhere being cards that never come in. I want at least 1 more Ratchet Bomb, and I want to devote SB slots against the Valkut//Scapeshift decks. It sounds bad but Leyline of Sanctity might be the answer. And I'm also looking for ways to improve the Elf match, it feels like such a losing battle they have such a fast clock with the ability to block early damage.
I typed alot more than I planned on, sorry to go so wrong. I you guys have any ideas I'm overlooking for SB changes please let me know and lets try to get a discussion going. Thanks for reading.
i saw this build in an article recently its more a b/w then ww but i think it still needs to be discussed
Bw tokens
4x marsh flats
4x fetid heath
4x windbrisk heights
2x mutavault
4x swamp
4x reflecting pool
3x plains
3x cloudgoat raner
4x tidehallow sculler
4x kitchen finks
spells
4x spectral procession
4x bitterblossom
4x thoughtseize
3x Elspeth teril
3x ajani goldmane
2x path to exile
2x zealous persecution
2x Marshall’s anthem
I like Kithkin but I haven't bothered putting a list together for it. Wizened Cenn is a super powerful card...But Student of Warfair and Steppe Lynx are both stronger than Goldmeadow Stalwart.
How's this;
1x Burton-Forge Tender
4x Figure of Destiny
4x Wizened Cenn
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
3x Thistledown Liege
3x Ranger of Eos
4x Brave the Elements
4x Spectral Procession
3x Path to Exile
4x Rustic Clachan
14x Plains
Turn 3 seems a little weak, but without needing to save your lands to do a lot of leveling up you can play a lot more lord effects, between Windbrisk Heights and Liege your also able to take advantage of the red zone with built in combat tricks. The two big cards I'd like to add are Mirror Entity and Mirror Weave. With 2 creature lord effects Mirror Weave seems like a no brainer.
Don't take my list as something great, I just threw it together trying remember how thy used to be played.
edit - Cloudgoat under a Windbrisk is amazing.
Thoughts?
Really? I guess I can't argue too much because I haven't played it and the Pros did well at Worlds w/ it, but it seems that WW can possibly sustain some board wipes w/ Ranger of Eos, Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Spectral Procession whereas Tempered Steel decks only have Ranger. Yes, I agree that artifact aggro has more explosiveness and more pump spells, but there is alot of disruption in this current meta and WW seems to be more stable than artifact aggro, not to mention the protection of Brave the Elements for all the creatures instead of just a few copies of Etched Champion. The artifact aggro seems to be very similar to the WW Quest decks in Standard - if you have a good draw it's almost GG; if not, it's a big struggle to get there - I don't think it's that cut and dry for WW.
To me, both decks have a card time getting around Cryptic Command - it's really the only card that I can't find any answers for. I don't like Lapse of Certainty because I don't want to keep 3 mana untapped just to put it on top of their library only for them to cast it again. I've been trying to dig into Lorwyn standard to find out what WW decks used to combat Cryptic when Faeries were ruling standard and can't find anything. I thought of Silence but I'm not sold on it. Any ideas from anybody other than Lapse?
Also, what does everybody think about Runed Halo or Luminarch Ascension on the SB? The Halo could help against vs Jund (Blightning), 5CC (Cruel Ultimatum), Pyromancer Ascension builds, any decks running B for Thoughtseize and Scapeshift/Wargate decks running Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Luminarch could be good vs. control matchups.
I don't think Leyline of Sanctity stops Cryptic's "tapping down team" ability. It doesn't particularily target a single opponent or a single creature - it just taps all other creatures - I could be wrong about this though. If it's true, you're better off just running Runed Halo and just naming the card that will cause the most trouble (Valakut in Scapeshift/Wargate decks, Blightning in Jund, Cruel Ultimatium in 4-5CC, etc). Plus, you have to pretty much dedicate 4 SB slots for the Leyline whereas you can probably get away w/ less w/ the Halo.
After reading alot of articles online and reading some of the responses here, I think that pure WW probably isn't the way to go for this current Extended meta as far as aggro goes. You're going to need to splash another color and have some sort of response to all the counters in 4-5CC, Fae, Wargate, as well as have protection from Jund's targeted removal AND get around aggro board wipes like Volcanic Fallout and Firespout. I think this means that Boros is the way to go honestly, and splashing red for SB cards like Guttural Response and possibly Ricochet Trap can help w/ the U-control matchups. This also means potentially more explosive starts w/ Goblin Guide and also bringing in more fetches w/ the Scalding Tarn to help the Lynxx grow consistently on attacks.
Forget You, i believe you're right. Okay, now i know that was possibly my opponent's misplay then. I like the idea of Runed Halo and I could use the same number of slots I have been (2) Hmm...
I am intrigued by a boros idea, as one could also use Vexing Shusher to protect against counterspells, I could even see this being another thread soon, but for now Im going to stick with WW. I believe there is still untapped potential as of yet.
The deck Ive had the most problems with are elves, besides boardwipes Ive only come up with Linvalla, Keeper of Secrets and Ethersworn Canonist to slow them down...
I think Pithing Needle would be useful against Ezuri and Fauna Shaman, also in other matchups against Jace 2.0 and other stuff.
Ideas?
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Figure of Destiny
4x Student of Warfare
4x Knight of the White Orchid
2x Ranger of Eos
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enchantments 4
4x Honor of the Pure
Instants 9
4x Path to Exile
4x Brave the Elements
1x Lapse of Certainty
4x Spectral Procession
Land 23
4x Arid Mesa
4x Marsh Flats
15x Plains
Currently playing
Standard
:symwg::symbr:Dark Naya:symrb::symgw:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
15 Plains
Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Brave the Elements
4 Spectral Procession
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Path to Exile
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Path to Exile
3 Lapse of Certainty
3 Unmake
4 White Knight
http://www.magic-league.com/deck/66778/extended_t1x.html#WW314