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White Weenie is a classic deck design -- play really low cost White creatures that just happen to provide more than their initial mana cost's value (or at least that's where we are now... classic white weenie was just dumb dudes).
The current iteration of White Weenie is fueled by the Level Up mechanic, as long as we acknowledge Figure of Destiny is clearly the archetype for Level Up, and Ranger of Eos. Although your leveling men enter the battlefield as lowly 1/1 creatures, a minimal mana investment turns them into 3/3 First Strike and 4/4 beaters -- larger, if the game goes late and your men don't die! You can also play Steppe Lynx, who may be a 0/1 normally, but explodes into a 4/5 or greater with the use of Zendikar Fetchlands as early as turn 2.
I definately like the Mana Tithes that Reitzl plays over the forgetenders in Budde's list. They can really swing the game, he won against Cruel Control stopping the decks namesake spell.
Sadly they rotate soon.
However I think the deck will be quiet strong, it loses very little come rotation.
Even with the loss of mana tithe, lapse of certainity from the games I read and Kais comments can fill its niche.
What Im looking at for my own decklist going into the future is this as a shell:
Obviously Im focusing less on combo decks because they fared poorly at Finals but have the Canonist in the SB because they pop up as soon as you dont prepare for them :D.
Anyhow, I really dont know how much the deck can be tinkered with honestly the list is pretty tight.
So long live the little white dorks.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
I would disagree with you on the whole, particularly since the key card in the Cruel Control deck (Mystical Teachings) rotates from Extended in the next season and RDW is a far more common element of the general Extended public than 1,800 mana spells that your opponent spends 20 minutes cursing when you Force Spike. That and Jund.
I guess if both get shunted out by Treehouse, Forge-tender gets worse.
Yeah I guess I underestimate how much people will play RDW in any enviroment.
Kithkin did pretty well vs Fae if memory serves me right. And this WW is stronger then Kithkin.
You have more guys then they have removal and your guys get bigger. Student of Warfare and Figure of Destiny are pretty hard for control decks to handle effeciently.
And I dont know why it seems as soon as a WW thread is started someone wants to change the fundamental proven deck to something more controllish and token based.
If you want to do a mid rangish/aggro control there are much better options.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Flagstones of Trokair are rotating out leaving the deck with less landfall and library thinning - that's the worst thing. So it will loose some power, but will get new toys in SoM I hope.
Flagstones of Trokair are rotating out leaving the deck with less landfall and library thinning - that's the worst thing. So it will loose some power, but will get new toys in SoM I hope.
Getting double Flagstones of Troikar was far from the main engine of this deck.
This decks power comes 3 of the best one drops in magic+Ranger of Eos.
And from Spectral Procession and honor of the pure.
The core deck is not going anywhere.
The things that are going to change is how useful will Ethersworn Canonist remain and whether Burrenton Forge-Tenders are worth MD slots.
After Kijins comments Im going to have to go back and say they are worth MD slots as I wont be playing in any Pro events and RDW is always playyed en masse.
However I think Canonist can be put in SB and Knights of Meadowgrain make a much better MB choice since they help out against RDW and any aggro match up in general. As combo decks will be less popular.
Im really cautious on tinkering with the deck to much as my judgement is probably inferior to Kai Buddes multiple pro-tour winning judgement.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Perhaps someone could explain the following to me: What is the point of the Ethersworn Canonists in the deck? As far as I can tell it's a concession to Ad Nauseaum, but with Empty the Warrens rotating out, I'm not sure I see the purpose of Canonist in the deck anymore.
As for Mana Tithe, could it simply be replaced with MD Lapse of Certainty? Currently I'm replacing it with Path in my test build.
Obviously we have to wait to see what SoM brings us, but these are some thoughts, assuming Scars brings nothing (as I believe it might).
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Old terminology reference:
Play (noun): Battlefield
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Perhaps someone could explain the following to me: What is the point of the Ethersworn Canonists in the deck? As far as I can tell it's a concession to Ad Nauseaum, but with Empty the Warrens rotating out, I'm not sure I see the purpose of Canonist in the deck anymore.
As for Mana Tithe, could it simply be replaced with MD Lapse of Certainty? Currently I'm replacing it with Path in my test build.
Obviously we have to wait to see what SoM brings us, but these are some thoughts, assuming Scars brings nothing (as I believe it might).
Canonist isn't really relevant MD after rotation unless Elves gets very popular. They can just be replaced by a strong beater like Knight of Meadowgrain.
Lapse is very underwhelming. Those utility spells depend heavily on what the format looks like.
Im not sure about Stoneforge, but honestly it takes up a lot of slots and as you said slow.
Also Leonin Arbiter goes against the best card in the deck, Steppe Lynx.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Equipment isn't really necessary between Honor of the Pure and creatures like Steppe Lynx, Figure and Student. In addition, the selection of equipment right now is kinda disappointing. Unless cheap equipment that can abuse creatures like Kemba becomes available, I doubt an equipment heavy strategy is viable.
Arbiter might be necessary in the future dependent on the strategies that evolve.
i reallize that one is the magic numbe rin this deck ( tho there are only 4 rangers) but is kor firewalker a considerable option? i may consider bringing it in addition to the forge tender because my local ares is looking to be absolutly infested with red
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STANDARD
U/B kontroll
U/W Kontroll
:symb::symu::symg: In A :symr::symu::symg:
EXTENDED
Jund's second rampage! :symb::symr::symg:
Unless your meta is some bizarro universe filled with Combo and RDW, Ethersworn Canonist can be easily switched with Kor Firewalker.
However the question is whether its worth having Firewalker over Knight of Meadowgrain in the MB.
KoM is decent in the RDW matchup because of the lifelink and first strike. And its also decent in most other matchups.
And the strength of this deck in a meta sense is that it has decent MUs against most decks but no bad MUs
So I think KoM in MB is a better call unless its somehow a 30%+ meta of RDW since it plays on the decks strength of good overall MUs.
Also RDW is all ready a strong MUsfor the deck, its only really strong MUs, 3-4 Burrenton Forge tenders after SB should really be enough and those SB slots can be saved for a more diverse range of decks.
The short its cost benefit, is the benefit of suring up a all ready good MU worth weakening other MUs. I think the answer is no.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Where are the PtE's? No matter what format, if you're playing aggro (especially weenie aggro) sometimes you really just gotta get that blocker outta the way.
Flagstones of Trokair are rotating out leaving the deck with less landfall and library thinning - that's the worst thing
WTF are you talking about. Flagstones is simply anti-Balance material. Sure you can get double Flagstones with Lynx out, but I don't think that the capacity to have such a draw is really that earth shattering.
What do you guys think of Elite Vanguard? Yeah, he only has 1 toughness, but is that number after the / ever really relevant in this deck anyway? As a 2-power beater he's as good as any bear, plus he increases the number of turn 1 plays the deck has (although I am in no way advocating Ranger'ing him up instead of a Student or Figure).
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Old terminology reference:
Play (noun): Battlefield
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Where are the PtE's? No matter what format, if you're playing aggro (especially weenie aggro) sometimes you really just gotta get that blocker outta the way.
EDIT:
WTF are you talking about. Flagstones is simply anti-Balance material. Sure you can get double Flagstones with Lynx out, but I don't think that the capacity to have such a draw is really that earth shattering.
Brave the Elements means you dont have to give your opponent resources to enable your men to get into the redzone, it lets you get past multiple blockers, and it can counter pyroclasm effects or targeted removal in a pinch.
Path to Exile weakens the stength of the deck to capitalize on other multicolor decks ability to capitalize. Plus drawing multiple Brave to Elements in real play is not as bad as drawing multiple Path to Exiles can be.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
I am really liking this deck. However I dont have much practice playing against fairies because I did not play when it was in standard. I think bitter blossoms chump blockers would be annoy so would war priest of thume be a good enough for a sb?
I'm also testing for post rotation. I missed the flagstones, stepe lynx wasn't as impressive as before. You should include 4 knight of the white orchid to get the most out of your lynxes.
I also think that we can't get enough one drops, so i'd play 4 copies of student of warfare. I'd cut a Serijee steppe, a knight of the meadowgrain and move a path to the sideboard.
I was thinking about trying Ajani, but Elspeth might actually be a better option. Please tell us how it fares.
with 4 studen and 4 KoM you should really consider stonforge mystic: deathtouch (basilisk collar) is really good with firststrike and sword of vengeance might be expensive but is also very nice (trample on a fully leveled figure or student) and inflitration lens can give the needed gas to overwhelm the enemys blockers.
The equippackage could slow the deck down a bit in the early game on the other hand it provides a lot of mid-lategame punch.
EDIT: I just remembered Reveilark. If you land one of those it will probably be a game winner.
Its been working pretty well. Im thinking baout droppung the finks for paths and possibly dropping elspeths for ajani
Why Ajani over Elspeth? Elspeth is a stalemate breaker. It's really nice to jump a pumped Steppe Lynx, or even a Student or Figure? That's a wincon of sorts, I'd think.
Yeah yeah, Fae. SB War Priest of Thune.
^^^He doesn't have the Pumping Elspeth in his list maybe it was a typo on his part. All W/W is a good deck . I was thinking of going the Kithkin route. Is that a good path to good down or no?
White Weenie is a classic deck design -- play really low cost White creatures that just happen to provide more than their initial mana cost's value (or at least that's where we are now... classic white weenie was just dumb dudes).
The current iteration of White Weenie is fueled by the Level Up mechanic, as long as we acknowledge Figure of Destiny is clearly the archetype for Level Up, and Ranger of Eos. Although your leveling men enter the battlefield as lowly 1/1 creatures, a minimal mana investment turns them into 3/3 First Strike and 4/4 beaters -- larger, if the game goes late and your men don't die! You can also play Steppe Lynx, who may be a 0/1 normally, but explodes into a 4/5 or greater with the use of Zendikar Fetchlands as early as turn 2.
4 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Marsh Flats
10 Plains
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Student of Warfare
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Mana Tithe
1 Path to Exile
4 Spectral Procession
1 Angel's Grace
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Celestial Purge
1 Lapse of Certainty
3 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rule of Law
Please keep comments on topic.
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I definately like the Mana Tithes that Reitzl plays over the forgetenders in Budde's list. They can really swing the game, he won against Cruel Control stopping the decks namesake spell.
Sadly they rotate soon.
However I think the deck will be quiet strong, it loses very little come rotation.
Even with the loss of mana tithe, lapse of certainity from the games I read and Kais comments can fill its niche.
What Im looking at for my own decklist going into the future is this as a shell:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Flagstones of Troikar
2 Horizon Canopy
10 Plains
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Student of Warfare
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Brave the Elements
3 Mana Tithe
4 Spectral Procession
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Ranger of Eos
Obviously Im focusing less on combo decks because they fared poorly at Finals but have the Canonist in the SB because they pop up as soon as you dont prepare for them :D.
Anyhow, I really dont know how much the deck can be tinkered with honestly the list is pretty tight.
So long live the little white dorks.
I guess if both get shunted out by Treehouse, Forge-tender gets worse.
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Kithkin did pretty well vs Fae if memory serves me right. And this WW is stronger then Kithkin.
You have more guys then they have removal and your guys get bigger. Student of Warfare and Figure of Destiny are pretty hard for control decks to handle effeciently.
And I dont know why it seems as soon as a WW thread is started someone wants to change the fundamental proven deck to something more controllish and token based.
If you want to do a mid rangish/aggro control there are much better options.
Getting double Flagstones of Troikar was far from the main engine of this deck.
This decks power comes 3 of the best one drops in magic+Ranger of Eos.
And from Spectral Procession and honor of the pure.
The core deck is not going anywhere.
The things that are going to change is how useful will Ethersworn Canonist remain and whether Burrenton Forge-Tenders are worth MD slots.
After Kijins comments Im going to have to go back and say they are worth MD slots as I wont be playing in any Pro events and RDW is always playyed en masse.
However I think Canonist can be put in SB and Knights of Meadowgrain make a much better MB choice since they help out against RDW and any aggro match up in general. As combo decks will be less popular.
Im really cautious on tinkering with the deck to much as my judgement is probably inferior to Kai Buddes multiple pro-tour winning judgement.
As for Mana Tithe, could it simply be replaced with MD Lapse of Certainty? Currently I'm replacing it with Path in my test build.
Obviously we have to wait to see what SoM brings us, but these are some thoughts, assuming Scars brings nothing (as I believe it might).
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
Canonist isn't really relevant MD after rotation unless Elves gets very popular. They can just be replaced by a strong beater like Knight of Meadowgrain.
Lapse is very underwhelming. Those utility spells depend heavily on what the format looks like.
Scars of mirrodin brings Leonin arbiter. but do you think the current meta warrants its inclusion? in the sideboard maybe?
Also Leonin Arbiter goes against the best card in the deck, Steppe Lynx.
Arbiter might be necessary in the future dependent on the strategies that evolve.
U/B kontroll
U/W Kontroll
:symb::symu::symg: In A :symr::symu::symg:
EXTENDED
Jund's second rampage! :symb::symr::symg:
LEGACY
Reanimator
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However the question is whether its worth having Firewalker over Knight of Meadowgrain in the MB.
KoM is decent in the RDW matchup because of the lifelink and first strike. And its also decent in most other matchups.
And the strength of this deck in a meta sense is that it has decent MUs against most decks but no bad MUs
So I think KoM in MB is a better call unless its somehow a 30%+ meta of RDW since it plays on the decks strength of good overall MUs.
Also RDW is all ready a strong MUsfor the deck, its only really strong MUs, 3-4 Burrenton Forge tenders after SB should really be enough and those SB slots can be saved for a more diverse range of decks.
The short its cost benefit, is the benefit of suring up a all ready good MU worth weakening other MUs. I think the answer is no.
Where are the PtE's? No matter what format, if you're playing aggro (especially weenie aggro) sometimes you really just gotta get that blocker outta the way.
EDIT:
WTF are you talking about. Flagstones is simply anti-Balance material. Sure you can get double Flagstones with Lynx out, but I don't think that the capacity to have such a draw is really that earth shattering.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
Brave the Elements means you dont have to give your opponent resources to enable your men to get into the redzone, it lets you get past multiple blockers, and it can counter pyroclasm effects or targeted removal in a pinch.
Path to Exile weakens the stength of the deck to capitalize on other multicolor decks ability to capitalize. Plus drawing multiple Brave to Elements in real play is not as bad as drawing multiple Path to Exiles can be.
4x Arid Mesa
4x Marsh Flats
4x Sejiri Steppe
13x Plains
Creatures
4x Fifure of Destiny
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Ranger of Eos
2x Student of Warfare
2x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Path to Exile
4x Honor of the Pure
4x Brave the Elements
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
3x Spectral Procession
2x Ethersworn Cannonist
2x Day of judgement
2x Lapse of Certianty
3x Kor Firewalker
2x Oblivion Ring
2x War Priest of Thune
My first stab at extended, made for post rotation, im still lookin for 2 more sideboard slots, any help would be appreciated.:)
I also think that we can't get enough one drops, so i'd play 4 copies of student of warfare. I'd cut a Serijee steppe, a knight of the meadowgrain and move a path to the sideboard.
I was thinking about trying Ajani, but Elspeth might actually be a better option. Please tell us how it fares.
The equippackage could slow the deck down a bit in the early game on the other hand it provides a lot of mid-lategame punch.
EDIT: I just remembered Reveilark. If you land one of those it will probably be a game winner.
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4x Student of Warfare
4x Figure of Destiny
4x Knight of the White Orchid
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Ranger of Eos
4x Brave the Elements
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Elspeth Tirel
4x Arid Mesa
4x Marsh Flats
4x Windbrisk Heights
11x Plains
Its been working pretty well. Im thinking baout droppung the finks for paths and possibly dropping elspeths for ajani
Why Ajani over Elspeth? Elspeth is a stalemate breaker. It's really nice to jump a pumped Steppe Lynx, or even a Student or Figure? That's a wincon of sorts, I'd think.
Yeah yeah, Fae. SB War Priest of Thune.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
4x Figure of Destiny
3x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Knight of the white orchid
4x Student of Warfare
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Ranger of eos
3x Brave the Elements
3x Path to Exile
3x Elspeth Tirel
4x Spectral Procession
4x Marsh Flats
4x Windbrisk Heights
11x Plains