I recently played in an (atlanta) qualifier, and since i didn't have and extended deck i converted the semi superfriends I had for standard, putting in path/Elspeth/wall/oring and one cryptic. I ended up getting fouth winning against Jund, Elemental combo, some hideaway land deck that was really rough for me, and a fae deck. Gideon was especially beast. I lost 1-2 to a UW control cause of a mana screw/Glen Elendra Archmage game 3 and then just got bent by faeries on the second round of top 8 getting 4th. I have been watching this thread and just am curious why everything seems to be trying to go so fast? Ill post my deck list for critique, but i'm a pretty good player and got the 4th out of i think 37 players. Was my winning just a fluque or?
Because none of those cards do anything worthwhile. Esper charm is fine, but thoughtseize would be the big draw towards playing black. Unfortunately your mana is pretty bad (especially if you want to t1 thoughtseize consistently) and you have to give up tectonic edge
Why play black suns zenith and GFT if you have wrath and path
Because none of those cards do anything worthwhile. Esper charm is fine, but thoughtseize would be the big draw towards playing black. Unfortunately your mana is pretty bad (especially if you want to t1 thoughtseize consistently) and you have to give up tectonic edge
Why play black suns zenith and GFT if you have wrath and path
I managed to pull a pretty solid manabase playing 2 tec edges,while giving decent odds of t1 thoughseize. ESper is great, esper charm is one of the best cards in the format, thoguthseize helps against control/faeries/combo a lot, and enables good removal in go for the throat, even grave titan as finisher (i think wurmcoil is the best ext finisher nowadays).
GFTT against path... they are both different cards, and they compliment each other really well. I think we can agree that to beat naya consistently you need AT LEAST 6 spot removal cards post sb (even more). So you can play a mix of both GFTT and Paths, which are the best removals.
Play GFTT against fae and dont give him lands.
Play path against control so you can deal with wurmcoil.
Play them all against naya/RDW/elves etc.
Black zenith is bad, i have to agree with that.
So, after reading all of the posts in here, I honestly think that U/W has a really good position right now in the metagame. I am working on a list that is great against Faeries and beats valakut. We are already the best deck against the aggro decks and if i can tune a list that beats Faeries and Valakut, i think i may have the best deck in the format. Even though 5cc has better spells, our mana is way better. Plus we have recursion where 5cc really doesn't.
Faeries is not easy. Problem is we really don't have anything low casting cost wise they care about. High casting cost spells like DoJ, BSA, STitan, Planeswalkers are easy prey for their cheap disruption. Beating Fae regularly will require the addition of red.
Yes, I know this means no more 4 Tectonic Edges, but you can't have it all. Play Spreading Seas to make up for it, which will also help versus Valakut anyway, which is relevant. Red offers Lightning Bolts, Volcanic Spaghetti, Firespout, and Ajani if you feel the need.
Basically, morph into Neo-American Control. Not Superfriends either. Let's make a sample build:
This is just preliminary. But I think this is a decent place to begin. If you don't care for Wall of Omens, try a split between Plumeveil and Wall of Reverence. I just had Wall of Omens in for the card draw, plus it's a 2 drop. Baneslayer Angel is still the best win condition in white.
with ajani costing r/w day costing w/w, jace costing u/u and fallout costing r/r ur really just going to need reflecting polls and vivid lands and then you may aswell be playing 5cc
You don't have to mangle your manabase, geez. And it doesn't have to be "might as well play 5 color" either. I'm just saying, Red is the color that beats Faeries, and U/W can't beat Faeries on a consistent basis, hence my suggestion at adding Red. U/W can handle alot of other things that are creature based, even though VVine and DGods can be pains, there no unstoppable. Faeries is a whole other game though. You have to think, IF you think Faeries is your worst match (and I believe it in fact IS), then change the deck accordingly. Why wouldn't you? Do you want to go to your next PTQ and have Faeries mangle you? Metagame a little. It's compettitve Magic, you adapt to strategies that help your deck, or play a different deck. Don't just take classic U/W Control and just get beat up by Faeries because you refuse to alter the deck to help the match. You know Faeries is one of if not THE toughest match, aside from maybe Valakut, so whats the point in not changing?
You have to learn to change and adapt sometimes, or sink with the traditional boat. Dunno what else to say. If I was going to play U/W Control, even though I think it is a very good deck with lots of tools, I'd add red to hammer Faeries to achieve wins.
um coz your manabase goes to the ☺☺☺☺ like said above (do I have to type it out again) and you start losing your good match ups because of it? and yes esper has a better manabase and better options gg
The ONLY deck that has anything resembling a good MU is mono red, but it sucks against everything else. If the bad MUs precieved are valakut and fae then we still have good MUs against roughly 70% of the field. Adding ANY other color butchers the consistancy of the mana base and in turn harms are already good MUs. The only color feasible to add is black, but we lose tec edge and gain tar pit. That may seem like a good trade but that is all you get that is good against fae, they still dont care about what you cast and they have more ways to kill your manlands then you have man lands or reasonablly priced answers. In addition, if valakut and fae are such horrible MUs then why not dedicate your entire sideboard to beating those strategies instead of trying to change the makeup of the deck to compensate for the already present weakness and thus creating more holes in you game plan against other strategies that you were already good against. Consider the fact that these matchups hinge on them resolving and protecting a two mana enchantment to win. Valakut builds (most anyways) rely on having prismatic omen IN PLAY in order to combo kill with scapeshift. Fae just cant win without BB. And we have access to White, a color with ALOT of enchantment hate, and blue, giving us spell pierce and the best draw and manipulation spells in the format. Build you BOARD to beat these bad MUs and stop butchering your maindeck.
It think you might be able to turn the tide of the faeries match up by boarding in guys and wall of reverence. I feel with the wall and a finks or coral helm u can just race them and win.
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Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I don't think adding red for lightning bolt/volcanic cheese party will hurt other matches honestly. They are still essentially anti-aggro cards, so they don't deviate from the deck strategically.
What in a classic U/W deck out of the sideboard can hurt Faeries? Just saking, because I'm actually curious.
I don't think adding red for lightning bolt/volcanic cheese party will hurt other matches honestly. They are still essentially anti-aggro cards, so they don't deviate from the deck strategically.
What in a classic U/W deck out of the sideboard can hurt Faeries? Just saking, because I'm actually curious.
The deck doesnt need more anti aggro, the entire deck is anti aggro.
What in UW board hurts fae? Leyline for one. Three in the 75 is a ggod number. It stops V Clique, M Clique, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Duress, Cryptic (from tapping creatures). Runed Halo is in some builds and that card can put the breaks on any card that may cause problems. Any form of enchantment hate is good also, cause without BB Fae can't present an aggresive enough board AND spellstutter sprite doesnt hit much that we would play. That would leave them with 8 total counters, and 4 of those are leaks which we can then play around. We also have the option of boarding Spell Pierce to give us a potentially faster ansewr to thier Thoughtsieze-->BB play. Interesting that all the cards I named are also useful against the other supposed MU, Valakut (omen/scapeshift builds)
If you were adding Red for something like Ajani V for control MU then I could see that side (although i still wouldnt do it personnally) because UW is weaker against control/combo decks then aggro
Is not actually terrible. Unfortunatly, if someone edges your key filter, you might be locked out of fallout/day/cryptic. Also, adding red makes it difficult/impossible to play your own tec edges, which is a strong point of this deck.
Understandable. I actually play 3 Runed Halos in the sideboard anyway, since that card is soooo good. War Priest of Thune is another card I tend to like. I'm not so sure about Leyline. I like the card, but if it doesn't come online turn zero versus Faeries, it seems like it will be useless since I don't think it will ever resolve, or even if it did by turn 4 +, why would they care anyway. Runed Halo though, 2 mana, and it has business. Sometimes I feel like Spell Pierce has game, since it can stop a key removal spell from resolution, like GftThroat on a Baneslayer Angel/Sun Titan. I was thinking even Sower out fo the sideboard, just to steal a MBClique, or just as an option. They would have to either counter it or kill it, both of which means other things are resolving/living.
Hi people, I have been testing for an upcoming PTQ and I have decided to play U/W control. My biggest problem is I can't settle on a sideboard. I really like Coralhelm Commander for the Fae matchup, but I don't understand why so many people are playing War Priest of Thune. I thought maybe it was for Fae, but I never actually want to kill their Bitterblossom. It usually helps me win the matchup. Maybe it is for Prismatic Omen, but casting it at sorcery speed doesnt seem to be that backbreaking. Is there something I am missing? I would appreciate anybody who can shed some light.
Hi people, I have been testing for an upcoming PTQ and I have decided to play U/W control. My biggest problem is I can't settle on a sideboard. I really like Coralhelm Commander for the Fae matchup, but I don't understand why so many people are playing War Priest of Thune. I thought maybe it was for Fae, but I never actually want to kill their Bitterblossom. It usually helps me win the matchup. Maybe it is for Prismatic Omen, but casting it at sorcery speed doesnt seem to be that backbreaking. Is there something I am missing? I would appreciate anybody who can shed some light.
War priest and commander are run for the fae matchup, the idea is to "go aggro" and try to race the opponent. The logic behind it is that killing the bitterblossom with priest makes the racing easier since they cant play the tempo game without it.
If they dont have bitterblossom, their spelltuters become bad cards, their mistblinds becomes easily disrupted by a path, so i think killing the BB is quite good.
If they dont have bitterblossom, their spelltuters become bad cards, their mistblinds becomes easily disrupted by a path, so i think killing the BB is quite good.
yes, if you are trying to race then killing BB is good, however if you are trying to fight thier tempo then letting it suck some life points and then wipeing the creatures is better.
3x Wall of Omens
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Vendillion Clique
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Sunblast Angel
2x Sun Titan
Planeswalker 4
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Oblivion Ring
Instants 11
4x Cryptic Command
4x Mana Leak
3x Path to Exile
Sorceries 3
3x Day of Judgment
Lands 26
4x Celestial Colonnade
3x Glacial Fortress
4x Island
2x Marsh Flats
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Mystic Gate
5x Plains
4x Tectonic Edge
Currently playing
Standard
:symwg::symbr:Dark Naya:symrb::symgw:
I really like your list, maybe id try to add the third clique, but apart from that, its really good.
Thats where i am now.
3 Wall of Omens
2 Frost Titan
Walkers(9):
1 Venser, the Sojourner (Worst card everr in the deck just forgot about it)
4 Jace the Mindscuplter
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 Gideon Jura
Spells(20):
4 Path to Exile
4 Spreading Seas
3 Mana Leak
1 Deprive
1 Cancel
1 Cryptic Command
2 Day of Judgement
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Preordain
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Shores
3 Tectonic Edge
5 Island
5 Plains
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Celestial Purge
Modern:
UWThe End ForetoldUW
Because none of those cards do anything worthwhile. Esper charm is fine, but thoughtseize would be the big draw towards playing black. Unfortunately your mana is pretty bad (especially if you want to t1 thoughtseize consistently) and you have to give up tectonic edge
Why play black suns zenith and GFT if you have wrath and path
I managed to pull a pretty solid manabase playing 2 tec edges,while giving decent odds of t1 thoughseize. ESper is great, esper charm is one of the best cards in the format, thoguthseize helps against control/faeries/combo a lot, and enables good removal in go for the throat, even grave titan as finisher (i think wurmcoil is the best ext finisher nowadays).
GFTT against path... they are both different cards, and they compliment each other really well. I think we can agree that to beat naya consistently you need AT LEAST 6 spot removal cards post sb (even more). So you can play a mix of both GFTT and Paths, which are the best removals.
Play GFTT against fae and dont give him lands.
Play path against control so you can deal with wurmcoil.
Play them all against naya/RDW/elves etc.
Black zenith is bad, i have to agree with that.
In a pinch it trades with real cards for real CA
in the late game (or out of the blue) it turns into an 8 mana e0t win.
Legacy:
GRB Belcher
UUB Merfolk
RRR Burn
GWU Bant Walker
RB Goblins
Yes, I know this means no more 4 Tectonic Edges, but you can't have it all. Play Spreading Seas to make up for it, which will also help versus Valakut anyway, which is relevant. Red offers Lightning Bolts, Volcanic Spaghetti, Firespout, and Ajani if you feel the need.
Basically, morph into Neo-American Control. Not Superfriends either. Let's make a sample build:
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Path to Exile
2 Day of Judgment
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Ajani Vengeant
3 Spreading Seas
4 Wall of Omens
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
26 Lands
This is just preliminary. But I think this is a decent place to begin. If you don't care for Wall of Omens, try a split between Plumeveil and Wall of Reverence. I just had Wall of Omens in for the card draw, plus it's a 2 drop. Baneslayer Angel is still the best win condition in white.
soz to be the bearer of bad news
You have to learn to change and adapt sometimes, or sink with the traditional boat. Dunno what else to say. If I was going to play U/W Control, even though I think it is a very good deck with lots of tools, I'd add red to hammer Faeries to achieve wins.
um coz your manabase goes to the ☺☺☺☺ like said above (do I have to type it out again) and you start losing your good match ups because of it? and yes esper has a better manabase and better options gg
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
What in a classic U/W deck out of the sideboard can hurt Faeries? Just saking, because I'm actually curious.
The deck doesnt need more anti aggro, the entire deck is anti aggro.
What in UW board hurts fae? Leyline for one. Three in the 75 is a ggod number. It stops V Clique, M Clique, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Duress, Cryptic (from tapping creatures). Runed Halo is in some builds and that card can put the breaks on any card that may cause problems. Any form of enchantment hate is good also, cause without BB Fae can't present an aggresive enough board AND spellstutter sprite doesnt hit much that we would play. That would leave them with 8 total counters, and 4 of those are leaks which we can then play around. We also have the option of boarding Spell Pierce to give us a potentially faster ansewr to thier Thoughtsieze-->BB play. Interesting that all the cards I named are also useful against the other supposed MU, Valakut (omen/scapeshift builds)
If you were adding Red for something like Ajani V for control MU then I could see that side (although i still wouldnt do it personnally) because UW is weaker against control/combo decks then aggro
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
4 scalding tarn
3 arid mesa
2 plains
2 mountain
3 island
3 cascade bluffs
3 mystic gate
2 rugged prarie
4 celestial collonade
Is not actually terrible. Unfortunatly, if someone edges your key filter, you might be locked out of fallout/day/cryptic. Also, adding red makes it difficult/impossible to play your own tec edges, which is a strong point of this deck.
For reference, here is the list I am going with:
4 Celestial Colonnade
3 Glacial Fortress
3 Island
3 Mystic Gate
3 Plains
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Sun Titan
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Wall of Omens
4 Cryptic Command
2 Day of Judgement
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace Beleren
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Mana Leak
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Path to Exile
War priest and commander are run for the fae matchup, the idea is to "go aggro" and try to race the opponent. The logic behind it is that killing the bitterblossom with priest makes the racing easier since they cant play the tempo game without it.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
yes, if you are trying to race then killing BB is good, however if you are trying to fight thier tempo then letting it suck some life points and then wipeing the creatures is better.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp