Anyone have a current list? Is Leyline really that amazing against Fae that it is worth devoting the slots even when it isn't amazing against other things?
I ran this yesterday and found that Contagion Clasp worked well against Fae and Naya (this one was EVERYWHERE). I also used Venser the Sojourner to good effect with the usual ETB triggers. Mainboarding War Priest may not be bad as it trades with a Bloodbraid and makes Fae more winnable game 1. Also, with Venser, it puts Scapeshift in a really bad position.
I'm pretty sure Leyline is disadvantageous (bad) most of the time. There are better ways of handling Fae. If you have to mull into Leyline you're already losing.
It does serve a few purposes but I just can't see myself ever playing it anyways. If you don't have any action they can just bounce it and kill you anyways
I think leyline is great as well. Great againt faeries, omen decks, good against RDW, decent againstj und... Starting with it in play is a 50 chance to happen. Still, if you dont, you are in trouble.
I'm pretty sure Leyline is disadvantageous (bad) most of the time. There are better ways of handling Fae. If you have to mull into Leyline you're already losing.
The are not the card that are going to solve all the problems...but You saying they are bad just because is worst!!!
They are very usefull dependig on your strategy.Many people adopt for a more beatdown aproach on game 2 with the Baneslayers and Coaralhelms...although i've seen list with main Slayers and 2 Vedellion Cliques.I like this strategy to face the metagame a lot.
U/W has good match ups with the current meta (excluding Faeries, of course) but if intead of pushing control elemts ito the deck we make it more agresive we will still end up with a good deck for the field and a better way to approach game 1 against faeries.
Baneslayers, Kitchen Finks, Cliques, and Colonade are the best way you are going to ever beat Faes on game 1.If you add War Priests, and Maybe Coralhelms(havent tried them yet) to the mix, you even have a better chance.
Leylines are very effective for what they are meant to.But they dont really mix well if you want to go the aggro route.Sometimes is better if you let them loose bucnh of life with thoughtseizes and bitterbloosoms if you have the way to make'em pay later...For this, the best card for this job i think is Ratchet Bomb.The Leyline could be more if you want to go for a more controlish route where you care more about you hand size than you creatures on board.
Thinking of putting some Ousts in the SB for Mythic, Naya, GW Trap, Elves. I also kinda want the 4th BSA main, as it is pretty great against everything put control, but I don''t think I want to go below 2 Sun Titans.
Has anyone tried cutting the Walls and play Ratchet Bombs or removal to try and be better G1 against Fae?
Can people post their current lists?
I feel like if I can get the Fae MU decent, this is a pretty great deck.
Leyline is huge in so many matches that there is no reason to run it main, with three main I usually end up with it in my opening seven close to 3/4 of the time. With an opening Leyline, Fae has an extremly hard time winning without a Bitterblossom on turn 2. To combat a fast BB we have plumeveil to run interference, as well as days and gideon later in the game. With this I must conclude that Leyline tips the G1 match against fae in your favor slightly more then people expect. Aggresively mull for it if you must, any extras can either be played to make it more difficult to get through or brainstormed away with jace then preordained to the bottom.
If you had 4 leylines, the chance of having one in your opening seven would be roughly 49%. Either you suck at math, or you're REALLY good at shuffling.
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If you had 4 leylines, the chance of having one in your opening seven would be roughly 49%. Either you suck at math, or you're REALLY good at shuffling.
I dont suck at math, I also didnt say it works for everyone either. I just get lucky enough to get it in my opening seven very often. Regardless, its good enough most of the time to mull a hand or two to get it. Also, I dont consider statistical data high enough to let that effect my deckbuilding.
Also, the percentage for one in opening hand out of four in a sixty card deck is closer to 47%, not 49%. 100/60=1.7 1.7x4=6.8 6.8x7=47.6 In actuality 100/60=1.6 to infinity so the true percentage is a little less the 47.
I just go off the math indicated by magic workstation, which seems to indicate 45% with 4 leylines. I just had 49% in my head due to some turn 2 calculations I'd been doing earlier. There is a reason I said "roughly".
That being said, with only 3 leylines, you'd need more than 3 mulligans to hit 75%.
I find that probability is essential to crafting a deck. It's how I maximize the efficiency of my manacurves. Regardless... as everyone cannot rely on luck, I felt that your anecdotal evidence might be misleading to other players, giving a false impression of how easy it is to get turn 0 leylines.
That being said... Leyline will win games when it shows up. I just wouldn't mull to get it. Beating a deck like faeries starting multiple cards down is pretty difficult. I managed to do it after mulling to 4 today, but 9 times out of 10... I should have lost.
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Statistics isnt what makes a deck good. And using math to stabilse a curve isnt going to cut it in real life either. Putting that much stake in numbers when the game is based on chance and skill is bad practice.
I ran this yesterday and found that Contagion Clasp worked well against Fae and Naya (this one was EVERYWHERE). I also used Venser the Sojourner to good effect with the usual ETB triggers. Mainboarding War Priest may not be bad as it trades with a Bloodbraid and makes Fae more winnable game 1. Also, with Venser, it puts Scapeshift in a really bad position.
What is clasp killing? Spellstutter sprite? Oh good.
As for maindeck war priest, thats a different story. It's good against fae, wargate, tempered steel, and can nab an oblivion ring here and there. Its obviously terrible against jund, but the jund matchup is so good it might be worth the trade-off.
Stillmoon is great against Fae. I've played a torunament this past Saturday, 4 rounds and top 4, and I had the bad luck of playing against 2 Faes, in the first round against Fae, the second match was a win only because he couldn't counter my Stillmoon. In the fourth round against Fae, the first match was won because a JMTS not countered, I made a brainstorm, I had a Titan in hand and I draw the second one, so I put it in top, I played the first one, my opponent countered it without thinking that I would play a second one in the next turn, once it entered with 3 Finks in graveyard, I won.
Maybe I had luck but with this list I won the two matches against Fae 2-0.
Also, as someone said before me, I don't think taking out JMTS is a good choice, if he hits the battlefield, the chances of winning increase.
And what about Venser? In that list I have 1 ratchet bomb, but I did not use it in any of the eleven matches I've played, sometimes when I draw it it was a bad topdeck draw... so I'm not sure about changing it for one Venser, good with all the creature cards and spreading seas in that list (Titan, Kitchen, Vendilion, Wall, Spreading...)
This is VERY similar to mine. I only run 3 WoO and a 2 Day of Judgement since we can't just think about Faeries.There are many Decks out there that can run us over if we re not carefull: Naya, Jund(maindecking Fauna Shamman), RDW, Constription, WW, B/W...etc...
Also, im my original i dont have the Angel wich i think she is very necesary now.So i will add one or two, depending if i leave a 1/1 split between Baneslayer an Venser...I've been playing with him and He is GREAT everytime i play him.
Another card to add main are Vendellion Cliques, although i think i'd add two intead of one.She works good with Venser too.
The other cards that i used to run but im talking out next are Spell Pierce and Spreading Seas.They both are good cards...very good!!...but too situational, meanwhile Baneslayer and the Clique have their job done well everytime.
But since you played a whole tornament with the Spreading Seas, How good were they for You??? Also. how about Vendellion Clique??? I know the card is good but i havent played with it yet!
Ratchet Bomb is a catch-all silver bullet...but i could be a horrible top deck like you mentioned...so take it out? and have two in the sedeboard for Elves, Tempered Steel...and Mana dorks.decks...?
About Jace 2.0 against Faeries...the most apropiate is to take him out...He could be slow, easy to deal with, and not necesary if you trying to get the beat down going...but there are exeptions on the rule...I really dont know the veredict on this case because the small testing time agaist the faeries.
I played a bunch online, but i dont own Jace 2.0 online, only on papper Magic.
Sideboard choices:
I like Mindlock Orb tech a lot...How did it performe? Is it good enough to include a second one? or actually is better to take the one out?
War Priest are obvious, as the Secon Slayer, Clique and the extra Days.Although, i like having a 3rd Path or some Celestial Purges too.
Stillmoon Cavaliers....tell me all about them?...My theory(since i havent played them) is that they a re very good!!!!.....BUT.....they cost 3 and tie you mana through the whole game in order to be extra efficient.Also, they are in Kitchen Finks and Vedellion Clique's way...or you board out the Finks???
Finally, Leyline are AWESOMe as sideboard only!!...at least for this deck.We dont play a combo deck so we dont have to main these guys.We get hurt by Thoughtseizes but they dont completely destroy us on game one.Prismatic Omen uses the Leyline main because they cant afford been cut off their combo pieces by thoughtseize.
now, for game two...they are amazing against Faeries, and Valakuts variants.Is there anay other match up where they are goos that i am missing?
Sorry for the long post, but im attending Atlanta GP so im trying to polish off my list.
Yes I know, 1 DoJ maybe is not enough, that's the reason I lost one match against Jund and the final round against Merfolks.
Normally the Baneslayer Angel is not the winning card, the games I won it was because I could resolve a Titan (except one match against Fae that I won with a Stillmoon). For example, one match against Fae, I played a Fink, but I had 2 more in hand, he disfigured the one in the battlefield two times and forced me to discard the other 2... I played a JMTS with a Titan in hand, in the next turn I made a brainstorm and I was able to draw a second Titan, put it on top, play first Titan, countered, as I expected, second one entered the battlefield, kitchin returns... he conceded. Also, your Beleren or JMTS could destroy the JMTS from Faeries, first round against Fae (second match), cryptic in hand, Beleren in hand, War Priest in hand my op cast a thoughtseize and forced me to discard my Beleren (instead of war priest or cryptic command), because he had a JMTS in hand so if I play my Beleren... you know.
Not only that, against Jund a resolved JMTS forced my op to destroy him, I can make a brainstorm and then a "semi-fog".
Spreading Seas is a good card, it's good to convert a manland from Naya or Jund in an useless island, in the game against Naya he get an island in my second turn in the two matches, also against Naya I was able to stop 2 turns from casting BBE because he had no red mana, and is cantrip. Also against Fae you can convert his mutavault in an island or his U/B manland (a nightmare for me because it's unblockable), but, normally, against Fae in the second game I sideboard them out to take in stillmoon and war priest.
Vendilion clique is very good, against Fae to destroy their vendilion, against Jund to take out BBE, Demigods, anathemancers... also, if you cast a Titan is great to block with it and recuperate it with the Titan attacking... I could stop a Demigod against Jund with that technique... some turns.
You are right with ratchet bomb but in that tournament in the eleven matches I've played I did no cast it in any of them, maybe because I'm not used to it in extended...
Sideboard
Well, mindlock... the other card I did not use...
Stillmoon Cavaliers, it was my "silver bullet" against Fae, against Naya or Jund I did not side in my Stillmoon (also I recognize that against Jund it would be a good choice because my op take out his bolts, so no card in his deck would be able to destroy him...).
So I only used it in 2 matches, first one was a direct win. I resolve it and start attacking, protecting him and let him to win.
The second one I get my first Cavalier when I had casted a Titan and it was too late for it to be played, and for my opponent to stop the Titan.
It's a headache for Fae and it could be worse for them, as its cost is 3, you know that a countered one, or a destroyed one (consume the meek not countered) can return to play with a resolved titan, in my opinion, playing this card forces Fae to use their thoughtseize or counters on him and lets you to play other cards knowing that your opponent has used some of their counters.
Leyline?... Well... against Fae is good, against Jund is even better, a resolved one can make a lot of pain for them... bye bye Bolt, bye bye Anathemancer (and that card is painful, two Anathemancer not countered provoked 10 points of damage to me as I had 5 non-basic lands in play), bye bye blightning, bye bye thoughseize... And, of course, Valakut, Pyromancer Ascension...
I hope I helped you.
I've been playing online and i agree that the Titan can get you out off very tight spots, but i had have games where the Baneslayer has been the one.I dont know if this could happen often in this current Metagame or It just happened to be the right card at the right moment.
Hopefully She can get us off rough games more often if maindeck is decided.
On the second or third game, or whenever we are on the draw, do you usually push threats out, or are more patience.I know this also depeds on the hand, but generally speaking, the plan is to push our caards out there.
I think if we do we are "kinda" stopping them from doing anything else than countering our threats.Since they play most of their deck at the end of our turn.So if we make them tap mana evry turn they going to have a hard time to find space and mana to play their treats at the end of turn.
Thoughtseizes and the like are the expetion is this theory.
So, did you doard out the Finks(or some number) for the Cavalier have a better space in the curve...or just play with 9 3cc threats(counting the one Clique too)+the Jace Beleren+ second Clique wich could add up to 12.
If you didnt side them out, what kind of hands where you getting, and how did you actually play them??? Wich order i mean.
And, if one of the Cavalier sticks, How much time and mana you devote to protec or pump?
About Spreading Seas....this is my thought after playtesting a good amount of time:
They are good.No doubt.But...they really shine against decks with weak mana base(not naturally too much, but deckbuilding fault more)or againts manascrews.
Im aware they stop Hideways, Valakut, Manlands, Tech Edges, and randomdly screw some duels. But this is not as permanent as i'd loved too.Meaning that they can topdec, or have they way out off this speedbump the very next turn.The can trip on Seas dont make it horrible in some match ups, but in It doest justify its lack of long lastin effect.
Spreading Seas is a valid angle to attack some deck in the Meta, but turning into a more agresive plan seems like the best one.
At best it's a tempo card that buys you some time to assambly your bg turns, but your follow up has to be very fast before they get out of it.And somtimes U/W doesnt have the way.Maybe baneslayer can achive that goal.
Leylines for Jund??? AWESOME.I can beleive i never occured to me that they are sideing out the bolts for Thoughtseizes, Anathemancers, and maybe they also have Blighting.Great advice.
Sorry for asking so much, but im planing to play this weekend in Atl.I want to be preppered for Faeries since i havent got the chance to test agianst it too much.The rest of the filed i can figure it out better with out sooo much testing.
What do you think about leyline maindeck? I think its a good card against like 70% of the field. Sure, its a horrible topdeck, but starting with it in play is like almost a win against faeries, omen and jund decks, which is huge.
Also, a question for you guys. Between kitechen finks and wall of omens, what card do you think its better in the current meta? Wall cycles, but finks gets you lives, can kill blockers, and go agro on faeries and control/omen decks. FInks is more expensive, btw. What do you think?
What do you think about leyline maindeck? I think its a good card against like 70% of the field. Sure, its a horrible topdeck, but starting with it in play is like almost a win against faeries, omen and jund decks, which is huge.
Also, a question for you guys. Between kitechen finks and wall of omens, what card do you think its better in the current meta? Wall cycles, but finks gets you lives, can kill blockers, and go agro on faeries and control/omen decks. FInks is more expensive, btw. What do you think?
Ill be really afraid to maindeck Leylines.It's good againts some decks, but there are still deck in majority that dont care about the cards: Naya, Bant Constription, G/W tokens, or hideaways with Summoning Traps.These decks are really good and are out there in good numbers.Besides, it's good against Jund on game one, but It really shines in game two when they bring heavy hand disruption...and add more Anathemancers.
I guess they could be alright against RDW also.
I think the best is have a good mix between the two. Unless you are playing 4cc and main deck Vol. Fallouts.Walls are good cyclers, and better if you are playing aginast a fast deck.Finks are also great at slowing down agro, but It's aslo an amazing beater.
Plus they both have the plus of being Sun Titan's food.
Baneslayer Angel...I know how good she is, but is she really necesary on main? What about 1of...and have more i the sideboard? All i know she belongs in the final 75. How about 2 main, 1 sideboard?
Is 3 Sun titan good enough? So far He shows when i need him, but there have been games where he shows up 1 or 2 turns later than i wished to.However, if i play 4 main i feel that im going to see him on my opening hand quite often, and i want dig for him,and not see it every opening hand.
Vendellion Cliques...well, not much too say here since i havent tried them. This is going to be more a blind desicion if i decide to leave them main.Thoughts???
3 Paths, 3 Preordian...It sounds good, but is there a better choice? This is another reason why i dont run Spreading Seas since i got a good amount of Path main and post board.
Missing 3 spots for the sideboard.What maych-up am i overlooking that i need to take care of???Maybe that gives me good ideas to fill the spots.
How about 2 Sunt Titans and 3 BSAngels? BSAngel beats alot of things in combat in this format, gains you back precious life, and beats in the air, plus has first strike to ensure better combat prowess, all for 5 mana.
Sun Titan is good, but 6 mana is alot, you don't want to see one early either.
I'm not really sold on Wall of Omens. If you want some utility with a cantrip, I'd side with Spreading Seas instead, because it shuts off manlands, which is more relevant now than Wall of Omens, even with the recursive aspect of Sun Titan.
Vendillion Clique I feel is quite strong actually. I'd prolly play 3 in the main. She has flash, beats for 3 flying, can be a blocker in a pinch and doesn't interfere with countermagic as she has flash, plus she acts as disruption.
Kitchen Finks I feel is plenty of ground defense, plus it reurs itself and gains life, and beats for 3.
If you wanted to play a wall maindeck, Plumeveil seems strictly better. It has flash, flies and can kill 4 powered dudes, which I find much stronger and more relevant against the formats creature base. I know it can't be recurred, but really, so what if it's just better?
Elspeth-Knight Errant might be a decent 2 of. She helps on defense, or can send KFinks to the skies or pump a CColonnade or BSAngel. All in all, I think she has merit.
How about 2 Sunt Titans and 3 BSAngels? BSAngel beats alot of things in combat in this format, gains you back precious life, and beats in the air, plus has first strike to ensure better combat prowess, all for 5 mana.
Sun Titan is good, but 6 mana is alot, you don't want to see one early either.
I'm not really sold on Wall of Omens. If you want some utility with a cantrip, I'd side with Spreading Seas instead, because it shuts off manlands, which is more relevant now than Wall of Omens, even with the recursive aspect of Sun Titan.
Vendillion Clique I feel is quite strong actually. I'd prolly play 3 in the main. She has flash, beats for 3 flying, can be a blocker in a pinch and doesn't interfere with countermagic as she has flash, plus she acts as disruption.
Kitchen Finks I feel is plenty of ground defense, plus it reurs itself and gains life, and beats for 3.
If you wanted to play a wall maindeck, Plumeveil seems strictly better. It has flash, flies and can kill 4 powered dudes, which I find much stronger and more relevant against the formats creature base. I know it can't be recurred, but really, so what if it's just better?
Elspeth-Knight Errant might be a decent 2 of. She helps on defense, or can send KFinks to the skies or pump a CColonnade or BSAngel. All in all, I think she has merit.
This is the problem about U/W....all the list look optimal, and It's nearly impossible to say wich one is the best.They just have different angles of attack.Period.
I think 3 BSAngel is too agresive, but with the Elspeth in the main or sideboard makes more sense.Also, with this route there is more justification to cut some Walls...(Maybe not to zero though)
Plumeveil is a great blocker, but there's a lot going on turn three that they kinda "screw" the mana curve. Finks, Cliques, Mana Leak+Preordain, and sometimes O-Ring are in the same spot.Also, if you are main decking the Angel, Plumeveil main is overdoing it.
2 Sun Titan is too risky.It might work, but He's best feature is the card advantage he delievers.Yeah, He is a 6/6 that bashes, but most important is that He makes people scoop even if they can chump block him all day.So, not finding one could represent a game lost.
As far as spreading Seas, i realized that we use them more to screw people down on colors.(exept faeries wich the best targets are Mutavault and Tar-pit, in that order) Besides that, I dont remeber holding my opening hand Spreading Seas just for a man-land.I always went for the color-screwing strategy. For man-lands we have great blockers or Cryptic Command/Tec Edges to make them pay for tapping out to active them.
Now, If you have an Venser in your main, i can see this plan more profitable.
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My trade thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=279327
balgarv what do you suggest cutting? the list is extremely tight as is.
Edit: Interestingly enough, the UW list which won the last MODO PTQ (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/1976688) beating RDW in the finals ran 3 copies of JTMS. As bad as he is in that matchup I can't see having less than 2. No Leylines
The are not the card that are going to solve all the problems...but You saying they are bad just because is worst!!!
They are very usefull dependig on your strategy.Many people adopt for a more beatdown aproach on game 2 with the Baneslayers and Coaralhelms...although i've seen list with main Slayers and 2 Vedellion Cliques.I like this strategy to face the metagame a lot.
U/W has good match ups with the current meta (excluding Faeries, of course) but if intead of pushing control elemts ito the deck we make it more agresive we will still end up with a good deck for the field and a better way to approach game 1 against faeries.
Baneslayers, Kitchen Finks, Cliques, and Colonade are the best way you are going to ever beat Faes on game 1.If you add War Priests, and Maybe Coralhelms(havent tried them yet) to the mix, you even have a better chance.
Leylines are very effective for what they are meant to.But they dont really mix well if you want to go the aggro route.Sometimes is better if you let them loose bucnh of life with thoughtseizes and bitterbloosoms if you have the way to make'em pay later...For this, the best card for this job i think is Ratchet Bomb.The Leyline could be more if you want to go for a more controlish route where you care more about you hand size than you creatures on board.
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Plains
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Mystic Gate
3 Wall of Omens
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Sun Titan
4 Cryptic Command
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Path to Exile
3 Day of Judgment
1 Path to Exile
1 Day of Judgment
1 Jace Beleren
2 Spreading Seas
4 War Priest of Thune
2 Condemn
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Celestial Purge
Thoughts?
Thinking of putting some Ousts in the SB for Mythic, Naya, GW Trap, Elves. I also kinda want the 4th BSA main, as it is pretty great against everything put control, but I don''t think I want to go below 2 Sun Titans.
Has anyone tried cutting the Walls and play Ratchet Bombs or removal to try and be better G1 against Fae?
Can people post their current lists?
I feel like if I can get the Fae MU decent, this is a pretty great deck.
Special thanks to High~Light Studios for the sig.
My trade thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=279327
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
2 Day of Judgment
3 Luminarch Ascension
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Preordain
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Gideon Jura
4 Glacial Chasm
4 Mystic Gate
4 Tectonic Edge
6 Island
3 Plains
Leyline is huge in so many matches that there is no reason to run it main, with three main I usually end up with it in my opening seven close to 3/4 of the time. With an opening Leyline, Fae has an extremly hard time winning without a Bitterblossom on turn 2. To combat a fast BB we have plumeveil to run interference, as well as days and gideon later in the game. With this I must conclude that Leyline tips the G1 match against fae in your favor slightly more then people expect. Aggresively mull for it if you must, any extras can either be played to make it more difficult to get through or brainstormed away with jace then preordained to the bottom.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
Those who hesitate in the face of greatness have already lost.
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I dont suck at math, I also didnt say it works for everyone either. I just get lucky enough to get it in my opening seven very often. Regardless, its good enough most of the time to mull a hand or two to get it. Also, I dont consider statistical data high enough to let that effect my deckbuilding.
Also, the percentage for one in opening hand out of four in a sixty card deck is closer to 47%, not 49%. 100/60=1.7 1.7x4=6.8 6.8x7=47.6 In actuality 100/60=1.6 to infinity so the true percentage is a little less the 47.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
That being said, with only 3 leylines, you'd need more than 3 mulligans to hit 75%.
I find that probability is essential to crafting a deck. It's how I maximize the efficiency of my manacurves. Regardless... as everyone cannot rely on luck, I felt that your anecdotal evidence might be misleading to other players, giving a false impression of how easy it is to get turn 0 leylines.
That being said... Leyline will win games when it shows up. I just wouldn't mull to get it. Beating a deck like faeries starting multiple cards down is pretty difficult. I managed to do it after mulling to 4 today, but 9 times out of 10... I should have lost.
Those who hesitate in the face of greatness have already lost.
I write for EoV. Feel free to check out my articles:
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
What is clasp killing? Spellstutter sprite? Oh good.
As for maindeck war priest, thats a different story. It's good against fae, wargate, tempered steel, and can nab an oblivion ring here and there. Its obviously terrible against jund, but the jund matchup is so good it might be worth the trade-off.
This is VERY similar to mine. I only run 3 WoO and a 2 Day of Judgement since we can't just think about Faeries.There are many Decks out there that can run us over if we re not carefull: Naya, Jund(maindecking Fauna Shamman), RDW, Constription, WW, B/W...etc...
Also, im my original i dont have the Angel wich i think she is very necesary now.So i will add one or two, depending if i leave a 1/1 split between Baneslayer an Venser...I've been playing with him and He is GREAT everytime i play him.
Another card to add main are Vendellion Cliques, although i think i'd add two intead of one.She works good with Venser too.
The other cards that i used to run but im talking out next are Spell Pierce and Spreading Seas.They both are good cards...very good!!...but too situational, meanwhile Baneslayer and the Clique have their job done well everytime.
But since you played a whole tornament with the Spreading Seas, How good were they for You??? Also. how about Vendellion Clique??? I know the card is good but i havent played with it yet!
Ratchet Bomb is a catch-all silver bullet...but i could be a horrible top deck like you mentioned...so take it out? and have two in the sedeboard for Elves, Tempered Steel...and Mana dorks.decks...?
About Jace 2.0 against Faeries...the most apropiate is to take him out...He could be slow, easy to deal with, and not necesary if you trying to get the beat down going...but there are exeptions on the rule...I really dont know the veredict on this case because the small testing time agaist the faeries.
I played a bunch online, but i dont own Jace 2.0 online, only on papper Magic.
Sideboard choices:
I like Mindlock Orb tech a lot...How did it performe? Is it good enough to include a second one? or actually is better to take the one out?
War Priest are obvious, as the Secon Slayer, Clique and the extra Days.Although, i like having a 3rd Path or some Celestial Purges too.
Stillmoon Cavaliers....tell me all about them?...My theory(since i havent played them) is that they a re very good!!!!.....BUT.....they cost 3 and tie you mana through the whole game in order to be extra efficient.Also, they are in Kitchen Finks and Vedellion Clique's way...or you board out the Finks???
Finally, Leyline are AWESOMe as sideboard only!!...at least for this deck.We dont play a combo deck so we dont have to main these guys.We get hurt by Thoughtseizes but they dont completely destroy us on game one.Prismatic Omen uses the Leyline main because they cant afford been cut off their combo pieces by thoughtseize.
now, for game two...they are amazing against Faeries, and Valakuts variants.Is there anay other match up where they are goos that i am missing?
Sorry for the long post, but im attending Atlanta GP so im trying to polish off my list.
I've been playing online and i agree that the Titan can get you out off very tight spots, but i had have games where the Baneslayer has been the one.I dont know if this could happen often in this current Metagame or It just happened to be the right card at the right moment.
Hopefully She can get us off rough games more often if maindeck is decided.
On the second or third game, or whenever we are on the draw, do you usually push threats out, or are more patience.I know this also depeds on the hand, but generally speaking, the plan is to push our caards out there.
I think if we do we are "kinda" stopping them from doing anything else than countering our threats.Since they play most of their deck at the end of our turn.So if we make them tap mana evry turn they going to have a hard time to find space and mana to play their treats at the end of turn.
Thoughtseizes and the like are the expetion is this theory.
So, did you doard out the Finks(or some number) for the Cavalier have a better space in the curve...or just play with 9 3cc threats(counting the one Clique too)+the Jace Beleren+ second Clique wich could add up to 12.
If you didnt side them out, what kind of hands where you getting, and how did you actually play them??? Wich order i mean.
And, if one of the Cavalier sticks, How much time and mana you devote to protec or pump?
About Spreading Seas....this is my thought after playtesting a good amount of time:
They are good.No doubt.But...they really shine against decks with weak mana base(not naturally too much, but deckbuilding fault more)or againts manascrews.
Im aware they stop Hideways, Valakut, Manlands, Tech Edges, and randomdly screw some duels. But this is not as permanent as i'd loved too.Meaning that they can topdec, or have they way out off this speedbump the very next turn.The can trip on Seas dont make it horrible in some match ups, but in It doest justify its lack of long lastin effect.
Spreading Seas is a valid angle to attack some deck in the Meta, but turning into a more agresive plan seems like the best one.
At best it's a tempo card that buys you some time to assambly your bg turns, but your follow up has to be very fast before they get out of it.And somtimes U/W doesnt have the way.Maybe baneslayer can achive that goal.
Leylines for Jund??? AWESOME.I can beleive i never occured to me that they are sideing out the bolts for Thoughtseizes, Anathemancers, and maybe they also have Blighting.Great advice.
Sorry for asking so much, but im planing to play this weekend in Atl.I want to be preppered for Faeries since i havent got the chance to test agianst it too much.The rest of the filed i can figure it out better with out sooo much testing.
Also, a question for you guys. Between kitechen finks and wall of omens, what card do you think its better in the current meta? Wall cycles, but finks gets you lives, can kill blockers, and go agro on faeries and control/omen decks. FInks is more expensive, btw. What do you think?
Ill be really afraid to maindeck Leylines.It's good againts some decks, but there are still deck in majority that dont care about the cards: Naya, Bant Constription, G/W tokens, or hideaways with Summoning Traps.These decks are really good and are out there in good numbers.Besides, it's good against Jund on game one, but It really shines in game two when they bring heavy hand disruption...and add more Anathemancers.
I guess they could be alright against RDW also.
I think the best is have a good mix between the two. Unless you are playing 4cc and main deck Vol. Fallouts.Walls are good cyclers, and better if you are playing aginast a fast deck.Finks are also great at slowing down agro, but It's aslo an amazing beater.
Plus they both have the plus of being Sun Titan's food.
This is my latest deck list:
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Sun Titan
3 Wall of Omens
2 Vendellion Clique
4 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
3 Path to Exile
2 Jace Beleren
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Preordain
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Mystic Gate
4 Plains
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Seachrome Coast
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Day of Judgment
1 Jace Beleren
2 Spell Pierce
4 War Priest of Thune
3 Leyline of Sanctity
Cards that im not 100% sure
Baneslayer Angel...I know how good she is, but is she really necesary on main? What about 1of...and have more i the sideboard? All i know she belongs in the final 75. How about 2 main, 1 sideboard?
Is 3 Sun titan good enough? So far He shows when i need him, but there have been games where he shows up 1 or 2 turns later than i wished to.However, if i play 4 main i feel that im going to see him on my opening hand quite often, and i want dig for him,and not see it every opening hand.
Vendellion Cliques...well, not much too say here since i havent tried them. This is going to be more a blind desicion if i decide to leave them main.Thoughts???
3 Paths, 3 Preordian...It sounds good, but is there a better choice? This is another reason why i dont run Spreading Seas since i got a good amount of Path main and post board.
Missing 3 spots for the sideboard.What maych-up am i overlooking that i need to take care of???Maybe that gives me good ideas to fill the spots.
Sun Titan is good, but 6 mana is alot, you don't want to see one early either.
I'm not really sold on Wall of Omens. If you want some utility with a cantrip, I'd side with Spreading Seas instead, because it shuts off manlands, which is more relevant now than Wall of Omens, even with the recursive aspect of Sun Titan.
Vendillion Clique I feel is quite strong actually. I'd prolly play 3 in the main. She has flash, beats for 3 flying, can be a blocker in a pinch and doesn't interfere with countermagic as she has flash, plus she acts as disruption.
Kitchen Finks I feel is plenty of ground defense, plus it reurs itself and gains life, and beats for 3.
If you wanted to play a wall maindeck, Plumeveil seems strictly better. It has flash, flies and can kill 4 powered dudes, which I find much stronger and more relevant against the formats creature base. I know it can't be recurred, but really, so what if it's just better?
Elspeth-Knight Errant might be a decent 2 of. She helps on defense, or can send KFinks to the skies or pump a CColonnade or BSAngel. All in all, I think she has merit.
Maybe a list like:
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Plumeveil
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Sun Titan
3 Spreading Seas
2 Jace Beleren
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
26 land configuration.
This is the problem about U/W....all the list look optimal, and It's nearly impossible to say wich one is the best.They just have different angles of attack.Period.
I think 3 BSAngel is too agresive, but with the Elspeth in the main or sideboard makes more sense.Also, with this route there is more justification to cut some Walls...(Maybe not to zero though)
Plumeveil is a great blocker, but there's a lot going on turn three that they kinda "screw" the mana curve. Finks, Cliques, Mana Leak+Preordain, and sometimes O-Ring are in the same spot.Also, if you are main decking the Angel, Plumeveil main is overdoing it.
2 Sun Titan is too risky.It might work, but He's best feature is the card advantage he delievers.Yeah, He is a 6/6 that bashes, but most important is that He makes people scoop even if they can chump block him all day.So, not finding one could represent a game lost.
As far as spreading Seas, i realized that we use them more to screw people down on colors.(exept faeries wich the best targets are Mutavault and Tar-pit, in that order) Besides that, I dont remeber holding my opening hand Spreading Seas just for a man-land.I always went for the color-screwing strategy. For man-lands we have great blockers or Cryptic Command/Tec Edges to make them pay for tapping out to active them.
Now, If you have an Venser in your main, i can see this plan more profitable.
3 Plumeveil
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Sun Titan
3 Preordain
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Path to Exile
2 Jace Beleren
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Day of judgment
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Negate
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Day of Judgment
3 Condemn
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 War Priest of Thune
I think I might want another O-ring MD. I also like the idea of Wall of Reverence.
Special thanks to High~Light Studios for the sig.
My trade thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=279327
Wall of reverence is an excellent card if youre running reveillark, but sans recursion baneslayer is probably just better