Your game plan revolves around casting a 4cc 4/3 Black creature that just happens to have every activated ability ever printed, if only you'd get the relevant men into your graveyard.
If you can't do that or need a lead into it against counters and the like, your other plan is killing all of your opponent's lands. Seriously, your opponent has like 20 non-basics. They're screwed.
I must say that I have seen this deck in action and it does in fact work. I was skeptic at first, 'junk' was an archtype that I did not think would land in extended (outside of Doran that is).
Although is it possible that we can add in Gigantomancer to the mix? Making our board into 7/7 beatsticks seems good.
Private Mod Note
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Dredge players don't play MtG, we play Dredge.
Decks:
EDH: I abide by no ban list for EDH. RUGIntet, the Land CrusherRUG
Standard: Shockland, shockland, mythic spell I win
Legacy: WUBRGDredgeWUBRG
Extended: UBGDredgeUBG (R.I.P July 1st 2010)
Ive noticed that this deck can easily produce infinite Green mana, and needs Thornling to give the ooze haste, but there is another option, has anyone tried out Devoted Druid + Morselhoarder? If i am not mistaken, this would make the need for haste to be unnecessary. Follow that with putting a Fauna Shaman in the grave to cycle through your deck and find your win condition.
That would also mean that Birds of Paradise are only for acceleration rather than a must have card.
Other creatures that could provide interesting results with infinite mana of any color:
Carnifex Demon, Oona, Queen of the Fae, Feral Hydra + Triskellion for a legacy feel, or possibly Sphinx of Magosi for that matter. The only benefit of Carnifex over something like Grim Poppet is that I believe the ooze would then target the creature, meaning protection from black is a problem, with Carnifex, yes it would kill all your other creatures, but you keep your ooze, meaning if you can pump him up with a different effect, swing for game with haste thanks to trusty Thornling!
I hope this gives a few new fresher ideas to the deck, it seems like it has a lot of untapped potential. (no bad pun intended)
(ps. how do you add the links to the cards in the message? I seem to have trouble with it.)
Sorry for the double post, but also has anyone thought of trying to use a pinger such as cunning sparkmage or against Faeries only the Scattershot Archer?
I have played this deck and it is just garbage. It was good when nobody knew what it was or how the deck was played (similar to UG Polymorph last standard). However, now that everyone knows how to beat the deck and what the combo is.
On top of that, the deck relies way too much on Fauna Shaman. The deck can explode but it too reliant on Fauna Shaman to win a tournament. While you might be able to steal a few Tuesday Night Extended at your local shop this deck will never get you the ever coveted Pro Tour invite at a PTQ.
Ive noticed that this deck can easily produce infinite Green mana, and needs Thornling to give the ooze haste, but there is another option, has anyone tried out Devoted Druid + Morselhoarder? If i am not mistaken, this would make the need for haste to be unnecessary. Follow that with putting a Fauna Shaman in the grave to cycle through your deck and find your win condition.
Morselhoarder obviates the need for haste to generate infinite mana, but you'd still need the haste to get the Fauna Shaman ability going.
This might be interesting; one of the problems I find with the deck (especially against 4CC/Fae) is just running out of steam too quickly if the early threats are answered - partially because I'm topdecking extra Birds or Devoted Druids.
But, generally speaking, if I can 'go infinite' with Sphinx I've already avoided that problem. So I'm not sure that he would help that much with the weakness, whereas something like Masked Admirers that can give a little extra without the combo being active (and, in this case, make topdecked birds somewhat more live) might.
hmm...true Kaosprophet, you make many good points, im also wondering, if the control matchups are really tough...how well would Thorn of Amethyst work?
@Koopa: The deck is far from garbage. My opponent might know what I need to win, but I also know what he has to trump my win and most versions of the deck can trump their trump. Set up for a EoT Mannequin, you counter? ok my turn I cast my other ooze. True the deck revolves around Fauna Shaman, but you have Theoretically 8 Shamans.
The control matchup only sucks against Fae. 4CC and 5CC are easy matchups
MD:
Acidic Slime
Fulminator Mage
Thoughseize
SB:
Duress
Now you have 16 cards that they have to counter or it ruins their plans of getting to 7 mana and Crueling you.
My version has long cut Lark, Primal Command, and Masticore. I've replaced with Finks and Pathmages for better matchups.
The harder matchups for me have been Tempered Steel and Fae. The easier matchups have been Jund and 4CC. Pyro and Wargate are pending if I have Pathmage early enough. But postboard the Steel/Pyro/Wargate matchups come almost unwinnable for them as I bring in 4 Nature's Claim and 3 Ratchet Bombs (+4 Duress for Pyro/Wargate).
Well im my personal opinion this deck just will not work against Jund cause first and formost when i see ooze come out he gets a terminate layed on him so fast and once i figure out you play ooze it just becomes to easy. Cause in Jund there is just to much removal and you only have 4 oozes in your deck.
You do realize I can go off in response to your Terminate/Lightning Bolt (the only removal MD in Jund). A smart Ooze player will not play an Ooze with no way to go off or without a Thornling in the g/y.
Okay cool so you are an above average Jund player prepared for this deck, of course the bogs do have a problem not only being another tapped land for you, but hitting at the wrong times, as many effect lands tend to.
also, what jund removal works to being indestructable or being able to regenerate for meager mana costs? The worst thing that Ooze has working against it is that it Memoricide/Thought Hemorrhage and to another extent, path to exile, journey to nowhere, and oblivion ring kill the combo. What is the best secondary option this deck has?
So far in testing, the little guys can actually carry the deck if they streamlined game 2 and 3 vs combos. Also if it comes down to it, you can play the masticore(I kept it in my build for mainly this reason) becomes at least an 8 damage beater, and thornling can get there.
@Koopa: The deck is far from garbage. My opponent might know what I need to win, but I also know what he has to trump my win and most versions of the deck can trump their trump. Set up for a EoT Mannequin, you counter? ok my turn I cast my other ooze. True the deck revolves around Fauna Shaman, but you have Theoretically 8 Shamans.
No you theoretically have 4 Shaman, since the Ooze isn't a Shaman unless you already have it. And yes, I suppose you can win games if you already have an Ooze in your grave, a Mannequin, another Ooze in hand, and Fauna Shaman/combo ready to go off on your turn. Yes, then you do have me. I can sit here and play theorymagic all day in Magical Christmas Land, but that never actually happens consistently in real life.
The deck can win. However, getting there is far from easy. If you don't draw Fauna Shaman, your deck does nothing. Yea, there are games where you go Turn 2 Shaman, and you simply win. But there are twice as many games where I have stared at my hand looking at all of these lackluster card choices that only work when combined with Fauna Shaman.
So, again yes, the deck can win, I have personally done it myself. Winning a small Tuesday Night Extended is something that can be done, especially in the hands of competent pilot. But I am looking for a PTQ win, and this deck is not going to deliver that to anybody.
The deck can win. However, getting there is far from easy. If you don't draw Fauna Shaman, your deck does nothing. Yea, there are games where you go Turn 2 Shaman, and you simply win. But there are twice as many games where I have stared at my hand looking at all of these lackluster card choices that only work when combined with Fauna Shaman.
The few cards I can think of that 'only work' when combined with Shaman are all singletons (and even then: most of them still do something without the Shaman, it's just questionable about whether they do enough) so unless you're also talking about the "all-ramp no action" hands of multiple BoPs/Druids I can't see how you're getting hands like that all that frequently.
And obviously, the 'all-ramp no action' hands should be treated the same way one would treat an all-land no-spells hand.
It's... different. More of a dredgevine with Ooze shenanigans. I dunno, there are bits I like about it and bits I don't. But it's inspiring.
I agree and think that it is worth considering. I would make one slight change: adding Oona's Prowler. I like it a lot better than Cryptologist and maybe even the fourth Looter. It doesn't dig you deeper like your other enablers, but it allows for much faster Vengevine shennanigins and guarantees that the card you want in the yard will go there, even if your opponent has the removal. Turn one Birds turn two Prowler, ditching a Vine or two and then a Crab seems like it might happen frequnetly enough to warrent consideration. It also allow you to ditch your pieces without having to wait a turn. Plus it is a 3/1 for two which can put a clock on an opponent in a pinch. I would find room for two and see how it goes from there.
I'll certainly be playing it. and if you doubt the usefulness of this spell.... well, good luck! lol. You'll be on the receiving end of it soon enough, when your Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker gets turned into an elephant.
After playing both Conley's original Ooze list and his revamped Dredgevine build I found the second to be far more fun to pilot and more effective against the current metagame. However with the introduction MBS I think a more combo oriented build utilising Green Sun's Zenith could be possible. This is the list I'm currently testing:
Green Sun's Zenith will almost always be searching for fauna shaman's. This often happens on turn two after a turn one birds. Then, based on what you have in your hand and what you think your oponents have (a combination of Thoughtseize and intuition) you either start assembling your Ooze combo or search out an Emrakul to be Makeshift Mannequined into play on the stack.
Vexing shusher is an excellent shaman target if you already have a shaman down (perhaps from being on the play) and know that your opponent has counters ready for your Ooze or Mannequin.
The one-of Shreikmaw is to be searched out with shaman in response to your opponent casting Linava, Keeper of Silence or for stopping other imminently game-winning threats. While in most situation assembling the combo is faster, Linava completely shuts you down.
The vines are for buying time against aggro, can be psuedo dark rituals when combined with Devoted Druid and, most importantly, they protect Oozes.
I began by running 4 Oona's Prowler but this deck rarely beats people down without an Ooze or Emrakul and they often just sat in hand. I think it may still be viable in situations where you need an additional discard source for Emrakul so I'm experimenting with it as a one-of target for shaman.
In the small amount of testing I've done so far, I've found this combination of Makeshift-Emrakul and Ooze to be remarkably consistent and resilient to both counter magic and removal.
Thats what I figured was the plan, but seems lackluster. Tbh if you have an active shaman with this deck, should you be able to win without saying go and attacking twice?.
Also, why 2?
Does anyone think think deck can be competitive? Doesn't look like it beats faeries, which is very bad.
I must say that I have seen this deck in action and it does in fact work. I was skeptic at first, 'junk' was an archtype that I did not think would land in extended (outside of Doran that is).
Although is it possible that we can add in Gigantomancer to the mix? Making our board into 7/7 beatsticks seems good.
Your game plan revolves around casting a 4cc 4/3 Black creature that just happens to have every activated ability ever printed, if only you'd get the relevant men into your graveyard.
If you can't do that or need a lead into it against counters and the like, your other plan is killing all of your opponent's lands. Seriously, your opponent has like 20 non-basics. They're screwed.
3 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Murmuring Bosk
3 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 Acidic Slime
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Grim Poppet
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
4 Necrotic Ooze
1 Quillspike
1 Reveillark
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thornling
2 Makeshift Mannequin
2 Primal Command
4 Thoughtseize
1 Cloudthresher
2 Duress
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Memoricide
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Shriekmaw
1 Skinrender
1 Vexing Shusher
Please keep all comments on topic!
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Although is it possible that we can add in Gigantomancer to the mix? Making our board into 7/7 beatsticks seems good.
Decks:
EDH: I abide by no ban list for EDH.
RUGIntet, the Land CrusherRUG
Standard: Shockland, shockland, mythic spell I win
Legacy: WUBRGDredgeWUBRG
Extended:
UBGDredgeUBG (R.I.P July 1st 2010)
That would also mean that Birds of Paradise are only for acceleration rather than a must have card.
Other creatures that could provide interesting results with infinite mana of any color:
Carnifex Demon, Oona, Queen of the Fae, Feral Hydra + Triskellion for a legacy feel, or possibly Sphinx of Magosi for that matter. The only benefit of Carnifex over something like Grim Poppet is that I believe the ooze would then target the creature, meaning protection from black is a problem, with Carnifex, yes it would kill all your other creatures, but you keep your ooze, meaning if you can pump him up with a different effect, swing for game with haste thanks to trusty Thornling!
I hope this gives a few new fresher ideas to the deck, it seems like it has a lot of untapped potential. (no bad pun intended)
(ps. how do you add the links to the cards in the message? I seem to have trouble with it.)
On top of that, the deck relies way too much on Fauna Shaman. The deck can explode but it too reliant on Fauna Shaman to win a tournament. While you might be able to steal a few Tuesday Night Extended at your local shop this deck will never get you the ever coveted Pro Tour invite at a PTQ.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Morselhoarder obviates the need for haste to generate infinite mana, but you'd still need the haste to get the Fauna Shaman ability going.
In the current configuration, that's all they are anyway: the existing mana-sinks want Green (which you can get off the druid) or colorless.
This might be interesting; one of the problems I find with the deck (especially against 4CC/Fae) is just running out of steam too quickly if the early threats are answered - partially because I'm topdecking extra Birds or Devoted Druids.
But, generally speaking, if I can 'go infinite' with Sphinx I've already avoided that problem. So I'm not sure that he would help that much with the weakness, whereas something like Masked Admirers that can give a little extra without the combo being active (and, in this case, make topdecked birds somewhat more live) might.
The control matchup only sucks against Fae. 4CC and 5CC are easy matchups
MD:
Acidic Slime
Fulminator Mage
Thoughseize
SB:
Duress
Now you have 16 cards that they have to counter or it ruins their plans of getting to 7 mana and Crueling you.
My version has long cut Lark, Primal Command, and Masticore. I've replaced with Finks and Pathmages for better matchups.
The harder matchups for me have been Tempered Steel and Fae. The easier matchups have been Jund and 4CC. Pyro and Wargate are pending if I have Pathmage early enough. But postboard the Steel/Pyro/Wargate matchups come almost unwinnable for them as I bring in 4 Nature's Claim and 3 Ratchet Bombs (+4 Duress for Pyro/Wargate).
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
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Final Fantasy 7
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
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Final Fantasy 7
also, what jund removal works to being indestructable or being able to regenerate for meager mana costs? The worst thing that Ooze has working against it is that it Memoricide/Thought Hemorrhage and to another extent, path to exile, journey to nowhere, and oblivion ring kill the combo. What is the best secondary option this deck has?
So far in testing, the little guys can actually carry the deck if they streamlined game 2 and 3 vs combos. Also if it comes down to it, you can play the masticore(I kept it in my build for mainly this reason) becomes at least an 8 damage beater, and thornling can get there.
No you theoretically have 4 Shaman, since the Ooze isn't a Shaman unless you already have it. And yes, I suppose you can win games if you already have an Ooze in your grave, a Mannequin, another Ooze in hand, and Fauna Shaman/combo ready to go off on your turn. Yes, then you do have me. I can sit here and play theorymagic all day in Magical Christmas Land, but that never actually happens consistently in real life.
The deck can win. However, getting there is far from easy. If you don't draw Fauna Shaman, your deck does nothing. Yea, there are games where you go Turn 2 Shaman, and you simply win. But there are twice as many games where I have stared at my hand looking at all of these lackluster card choices that only work when combined with Fauna Shaman.
So, again yes, the deck can win, I have personally done it myself. Winning a small Tuesday Night Extended is something that can be done, especially in the hands of competent pilot. But I am looking for a PTQ win, and this deck is not going to deliver that to anybody.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
The few cards I can think of that 'only work' when combined with Shaman are all singletons (and even then: most of them still do something without the Shaman, it's just questionable about whether they do enough) so unless you're also talking about the "all-ramp no action" hands of multiple BoPs/Druids I can't see how you're getting hands like that all that frequently.
And obviously, the 'all-ramp no action' hands should be treated the same way one would treat an all-land no-spells hand.
Green Sun's Zenith will make this deck fairly decent, I hear playing 4 Fauna Shaman is good.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=9415
(hope linking there is ok?)
It's... different. More of a dredgevine with Ooze shenanigans. I dunno, there are bits I like about it and bits I don't. But it's inspiring.
I agree and think that it is worth considering. I would make one slight change: adding Oona's Prowler. I like it a lot better than Cryptologist and maybe even the fourth Looter. It doesn't dig you deeper like your other enablers, but it allows for much faster Vengevine shennanigins and guarantees that the card you want in the yard will go there, even if your opponent has the removal. Turn one Birds turn two Prowler, ditching a Vine or two and then a Crab seems like it might happen frequnetly enough to warrent consideration. It also allow you to ditch your pieces without having to wait a turn. Plus it is a 3/1 for two which can put a clock on an opponent in a pinch. I would find room for two and see how it goes from there.
After playing both Conley's original Ooze list and his revamped Dredgevine build I found the second to be far more fun to pilot and more effective against the current metagame. However with the introduction MBS I think a more combo oriented build utilising Green Sun's Zenith could be possible. This is the list I'm currently testing:
4 Necrotic Ooze
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Devoted Druid
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Makeshift Mannequin
4 Thoughtseize
3 Vines of the Vastwood
2 Emrakul
1 Grim Poppet
1 Thornling
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Shriekmaw
1 Oona's Prowler
4 Gilt Leaf Palace
4 Verdant Catacombs
7 Forest
7 Swamp
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Cloudthresher
4 Shriekmaw
4 Memoricide
This deck is actually a combination of the Necrotic Ooze combo and Makeshift Mannequining Emrakuls.
Green Sun's Zenith will almost always be searching for fauna shaman's. This often happens on turn two after a turn one birds. Then, based on what you have in your hand and what you think your oponents have (a combination of Thoughtseize and intuition) you either start assembling your Ooze combo or search out an Emrakul to be Makeshift Mannequined into play on the stack.
Vexing shusher is an excellent shaman target if you already have a shaman down (perhaps from being on the play) and know that your opponent has counters ready for your Ooze or Mannequin.
The one-of Shreikmaw is to be searched out with shaman in response to your opponent casting Linava, Keeper of Silence or for stopping other imminently game-winning threats. While in most situation assembling the combo is faster, Linava completely shuts you down.
The vines are for buying time against aggro, can be psuedo dark rituals when combined with Devoted Druid and, most importantly, they protect Oozes.
I began by running 4 Oona's Prowler but this deck rarely beats people down without an Ooze or Emrakul and they often just sat in hand. I think it may still be viable in situations where you need an additional discard source for Emrakul so I'm experimenting with it as a one-of target for shaman.
In the small amount of testing I've done so far, I've found this combination of Makeshift-Emrakul and Ooze to be remarkably consistent and resilient to both counter magic and removal.
So, what are your thoughts?
With his shuffle trigger on the stack you can Makeshift him into play.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Also, why 2?
Does anyone think think deck can be competitive? Doesn't look like it beats faeries, which is very bad.
Here is my untested list:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Necrotic Ooze
1x Grim Poppet
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Molten-Tail Masticore
1x Quillspike
1x Thornling
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquistion of Kozilek
2x Makeshift Manniquin
2x Vines of Vastwood
Lands(24)
5x Swamp
4x Forest
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
4x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Tectonic Edge
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
The deck is rock, not junk for what its worth
Sig and avy made the good folks at heros of the plane studios
quotes