Koopa, I've been playing with two and I'm waffling back and forth between 2 -4.
I have nothing conclusive other than sometimes you need them, sometimes you don't.
If you are on the power three drop plan (KotR+Woolly Thoctar) then it is probably best to max out on mana creatures. If not, you can probably shave or cut birds entirely.
The Ranger of Eos version of the deck does not play birds...just Noble, Figure, and Nactl
My version of the deck cut the mana ramp creatures so it could focus on having a stronger traditional curve.
8 2-drops
9 3 drops
8 4-drops
4 5-drops
with those kinds of numbers, I find I have no trouble curving out and always having something relevant to play. I have been testing with some mana dorks and have found that against some matchups, particularly other Naya decks, I want early ramp. Against control decks however, making every topdeck and cascade relevant seems key.
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Really depends on their particular build. Creature heavy jund loses against my list 70% of the time... but removal heavy jund goes about 50%. Blightning is situational. Sometimes it just puts two vengevines in the yard... sometimes it's relevant.
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Curious. I don't play naya, but is there a reason spikeshot elder hasn't seen play here?
It requires mana unlike sparkmage, but late game it can ping for 2 at a time without tapping, and if you're playing a sledge, it's going to end the game quick against any deck.
The other advantage is that it can plop down t1.
Of course the issue is that it's a mana sink when you don't really want it to be, but I think it's advantages at least merit some testing.
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Curious. I don't play naya, but is there a reason spikeshot elder hasn't seen play here?
It requires mana unlike sparkmage, but late game it can ping for 2 at a time without tapping, and if you're playing a sledge, it's going to end the game quick against any deck.
The other advantage is that it can plop down t1.
Of course the issue is that it's a mana sink when you don't really want it to be, but I think it's advantages at least merit some testing.
Sparkmage isn't in the deck to ping your opponent out. It provides an efficient and consistent source of removal against Faeries, bant, naya, g/w trap, etc and with collar can bring down bigger things. Sparkmage controls the board to allow your other creatures to go the distance.
In testing and tournament. MB Arc Trails were incredibly good since I am running the mono vengevine version.
RDW won two PTQ's last weekend and it is not that difficult to build, it will be around.
The answer is always Baneslayer, but that changes my deck a bunch since I don't play it. Also, the RDW player was playing Combust in the sb and brought them in for Thoctar and KotR anyway.
It's the same meta here, but a deck pops up every week to shift the metagame.
RDW wins took 2 PTQ slots last week and may rise in popularity depending on this weekends results. Let me tell you that deck is hella scary to play against.
You have to play first and get collar going or you have no chance.
I'm not saying it's popular. I'm saying it's a bad match up. I am also predicting it will get more popular because of how easy it is to build and play.
Any deck can beat RDW if you take it into account, but at what cost?
Anyone that bothered to test the format knew RDW beats both Jund and Fae...two of those people got blue envelopes last weekend.
The answer is always Baneslayer, but that changes my deck a bunch since I don't play it. Also, the RDW player was playing Combust in the sb and brought them in for Thoctar and KotR anyway.
More so than firewalker? It doesn't die to combust, but probably isn't as good against Jund or something, but it's not as though Jund is boarding out removal against Naya.
Double white on turn two is a problem for this deck Kor Firewalker is not a consideration really. Wurmcoil is probably too slow and Baneslayer is fragile.
gpoc - you really need to read the thread. Not only will you find the answer to your question, you will understand why people are playing the archetype. There is not much to say beyond that.
Sparkmage is necessary for the mirror/Bant/creature decks and is good against faeries. Stag is only good against faeries. I'm not sure how you could not play 4 sparkmage in your 75.
Just throwing this out there, but Celestial Purge is a really good sideboard card in the current extended meta. I play it in my esperlark and it's a very strong card vs. many different opponents.
Instant Speed removes just about any creature in Jund (outside shaman), most creatures in Naya, all creatures in RDW, and also has the added bonus of being able to hit Bitterblossom in a faeries matchup.
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I'm playing the same list as Michael Jacob with Sun Titan instead of Linvala main.
The top decks decks Fae, Jund, and Control variants do not care about Linvala so I put it in the board.
I also play a version with a Ranger of Eos package that can search for two of Nactls and Figures. Basically -4 Thoctar and -2 Bop for +2 Ranger +2 Nactl +2 Figure
Thoctar is what it is...a vanilla 5/4 great on the play turn 2, but just another creature anytime after that. I do like it and may end up playing a pair but no more than that.
Not sure which way to go, Ranger is a Vengevine enabler which I like. Also adds CA and utility to the deck which is always helpful. Figure is a really great mana sink vs Mistbind Vlique.
The version with Rangers is my own brew and I like it a lot. When I saw MJ's list I thought they were similar enough to try his. I may cut one Ranger since you really only need one.
The pairs of one drops were great in testing. Figure of Destiny is awesome vs everything. I really want to play at least one. I change the mana slightly to accommodate this plan by replacing 1 Razorverge Thicket with a Wooded Bastion.
One more day of testing before I leave for Atlanta, will post up results after.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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I have nothing conclusive other than sometimes you need them, sometimes you don't.
If you are on the power three drop plan (KotR+Woolly Thoctar) then it is probably best to max out on mana creatures. If not, you can probably shave or cut birds entirely.
The Ranger of Eos version of the deck does not play birds...just Noble, Figure, and Nactl
I was thinking maybe a 4 of Figure and 4 of Noble as the one drops for the deck or maybe
4 of Figure and 4 of Steppe Lynx
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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8 2-drops
9 3 drops
8 4-drops
4 5-drops
with those kinds of numbers, I find I have no trouble curving out and always having something relevant to play. I have been testing with some mana dorks and have found that against some matchups, particularly other Naya decks, I want early ramp. Against control decks however, making every topdeck and cascade relevant seems key.
Those who hesitate in the face of greatness have already lost.
I write for EoV. Feel free to check out my articles:
You already have sparkmage so no.
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Those who hesitate in the face of greatness have already lost.
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It requires mana unlike sparkmage, but late game it can ping for 2 at a time without tapping, and if you're playing a sledge, it's going to end the game quick against any deck.
The other advantage is that it can plop down t1.
Of course the issue is that it's a mana sink when you don't really want it to be, but I think it's advantages at least merit some testing.
Sparkmage isn't in the deck to ping your opponent out. It provides an efficient and consistent source of removal against Faeries, bant, naya, g/w trap, etc and with collar can bring down bigger things. Sparkmage controls the board to allow your other creatures to go the distance.
I killed an Emrakul today with one
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The burn suite and efficient creatures was a huge problem.
RDW won two PTQ's last weekend and it is not that difficult to build, it will be around.
The answer is always Baneslayer, but that changes my deck a bunch since I don't play it. Also, the RDW player was playing Combust in the sb and brought them in for Thoctar and KotR anyway.
RDW wins took 2 PTQ slots last week and may rise in popularity depending on this weekends results. Let me tell you that deck is hella scary to play against.
You have to play first and get collar going or you have no chance.
Any deck can beat RDW if you take it into account, but at what cost?
Anyone that bothered to test the format knew RDW beats both Jund and Fae...two of those people got blue envelopes last weekend.
RDW just won another PTQ this weekend in Columbus...looks like those that choose to play it and pilot it correctly just win with it.
More so than firewalker? It doesn't die to combust, but probably isn't as good against Jund or something, but it's not as though Jund is boarding out removal against Naya.
gpoc - you really need to read the thread. Not only will you find the answer to your question, you will understand why people are playing the archetype. There is not much to say beyond that.
My current package for RDW is, 1 Dauntless, 1 Forge Tender, 1 Obstinate Baloth, 1 Baneslayer Angel, 2 Path to exile
Alright everyone. I've looked through a lot of sideboards. Some are running Stag and some are running Sparkmage. What's your choice?
Stag vs Sparkmage
I can't decide. Sparkmage seems better in general, but Stag is extremely good against Fae, but so is sparkmage.
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Instant Speed removes just about any creature in Jund (outside shaman), most creatures in Naya, all creatures in RDW, and also has the added bonus of being able to hit Bitterblossom in a faeries matchup.
The top decks decks Fae, Jund, and Control variants do not care about Linvala so I put it in the board.
I also play a version with a Ranger of Eos package that can search for two of Nactls and Figures. Basically -4 Thoctar and -2 Bop for +2 Ranger +2 Nactl +2 Figure
Thoctar is what it is...a vanilla 5/4 great on the play turn 2, but just another creature anytime after that. I do like it and may end up playing a pair but no more than that.
Not sure which way to go, Ranger is a Vengevine enabler which I like. Also adds CA and utility to the deck which is always helpful. Figure is a really great mana sink vs Mistbind Vlique.
The version with Rangers is my own brew and I like it a lot. When I saw MJ's list I thought they were similar enough to try his. I may cut one Ranger since you really only need one.
The pairs of one drops were great in testing. Figure of Destiny is awesome vs everything. I really want to play at least one. I change the mana slightly to accommodate this plan by replacing 1 Razorverge Thicket with a Wooded Bastion.
One more day of testing before I leave for Atlanta, will post up results after.