MTG Salvation

Quote from frankcseke

I think you are on to something that could innovate the deck. How many games have you tested with it?

I've been testing against bant coloured decks, lark, doran and mirror-ish decks mostly. Seems to hold its own against all. The good thing is that the vat is really a win more card that freaks your opponent out. They focus too much energy on siding against it and countering etc. Which is a good thing. If my vat draws out a Cryptic Command then it's done a good job.
My favorite thing about getting Mistbind Clique under there is that you can intentionally not champion anything so it goes directly under.

Quote from Yamikiri

Mimic Vat is awesome. I love the EOT Token, Untap, Token. It allows Sprite to counter till the noobs run home, and Scion of Oona is really funny under it.

I don't think a single creature in the deck would be bad under Mimic Vat, but how many Mimic Vat's should be in the deck? I think there should be a 2-1 split between the SB and MD (or vice-versa), because it is generally a good card, but it really shines against Aggro for it's ability to generate Tempo, and the ability to" steal" creatures; similar to Sower but more versatile and many times more resilient to removal.

It is especially good against Vengevine based strategies, because it not only permanently deals with one Vengevine, but also gives you a means to deal with future copies.

I'm running 3, but that is all i have at the moment. What I really need is for there to be some extended tournies so I can find out if it is good enough. I refuse to play with the trolls on mws anymore.

Has anyone considered red for the Spinter Twin combos with Pestermite and Spellstutter Sprite? My bud had this build together for a while. It's deadly when it goes off, but getting the pieces and right mana is a bit of a problem.

I have all the standard cards for Fae (sans JTMS, which I may be able to borrow), but my meta is 40-50% R/x aggro, which makes for sad times for Fae.

What SB measures do you guys suggest to combat this red menace?

Quick question: what is the minimum amount of black sources needed to consistently cast a black spell on the first turn?

Quote from Yamikiri

Mimic Vat is awesome. I love the EOT Token, Untap, Token. It allows Sprite to counter till the noobs run home, and Scion of Oona is really funny under it.

I don't think a single creature in the deck would be bad under Mimic Vat, but how many Mimic Vat's should be in the deck? I think there should be a 2-1 split between the SB and MD (or vice-versa), because it is generally a good card, but it really shines against Aggro for it's ability to generate Tempo, and the ability to" steal" creatures; similar to Sower but more versatile and many times more resilient to removal.

It is especially good against Vengevine based strategies, because it not only permanently deals with one Vengevine, but also gives you a means to deal with future copies.

I going to SB 2 Mimic Vat as the 6 total to use it means it is more consistently a late game finisher for two scenarios: (1) opponent has good control over the board to defend against creatures and this tips them over the edge, (2) burn decks or control will pack waiting for a Clique or Sower - so, go ahead and send my fae to the GY as I make some more.

what do you mean by "consistently"? the calculation is easy enough: for any given number of black sources, you calculate the chance that you _don't_ draw one in your opener. if you have B black sources that don't citp and you are on the play, the chance you don't see black in your opener is:

(1-B/60)*(1-B/59)*...*(1-B/54)

Calculate this probability and subtract from 1 to find the chance that you _do_ get black. Pick your tolerance level and fire away. You could get more sophisticated and realize that some of these are hands that you wouldn't really keep (like 7-landers), but unless you really like programming and know what "monte carlo method" means, this is a decent, back of the envelope start (and, combined with plenty of playtesting, usually all that you need).

on topic, i'm starting to like darkslick shores... what do your manabases look like these days? here's mine:

ZOMG--i forgot the freakin' mutuvaults...

There has been some inquiries for my Vat build, so here it is in all its glory.



Alright...Aether tradewinds is fun. It bounces any one of their perms, returns any one of your critters...who don't ever mind coming in fresh, plus it's another way to save yourself from bitterblossom death. I've seen people running that "return a creature" hard counter (forget its name) which is also good. I just like that this card is more of a toolbox.

As for the vat, get it down as early as possible. I only ran 3 becuase i hate having multiples in hand. Vat+ sprite is annoying. Vat + vendilion is angeriing. Vat + mistbind should be good game. The best thing about the vat is that you really don't need it to win, but its potential to get nutty really throws your opponent off. I'd even side it out game two just to mess with him.

well, you could use dread statuary if you really wanted a one-sided solution that doesn't hurt your little dudes. A mutavault with a scion of oona out also does the trick. But as you can see, those are pretty weak strategies that take away from the deck.
Unfortunately, sweepers are still the best answer. Just when you side in the sweepers you can also side in more recursion like more mannequins or profanes etc.

Does Mindbreak Trap have any potential in this deck right now? Or is Great Sable Stag the only thing that it hits that we are having a real issue with?

EDIT: I totally forgot about Volcanic Fallout

I guess the best way to deal with Stag then is Thoughtseize second round.

warren weirding? like any cruel edict effect, it offers too much choice for your opp. in other words, you're not guaranteed to nail the stag.

brittle effigy actually isn't bad at all, tho it costs to use once played ( total). that means that you can pop it t4 if needed (given that you played it earlier), or right away when played late game. so it's expensive, but it's fast.

by comparison, ratchet bomb can be popped to nail the stag t5 at earliest and generally needs 3 turns to level up and then another to pop. overall, way too slow.

wolf tokens off of sword of body and mind aren't a bad way to deal with stag, either. i'm not sure i want to run more than 1x sword just yet tho, so it doesn't seems like something i'd want to fight a hoser like GSS.

i'm personally leaning towards molten masticore. it's molten, and it's a masticore--what more do you want? it's effect is re-usable, it's got a body, and that body is hard to get rid of. my kinda card.

This is a grixis fae deck that im looking to play.
Im not to sure about the numbers, it really needs some tuning.

But for starters we have the basic Fae core:

Bitterblossom, Cryptic Command, Mistbind Clique, Sower of Temptation, Spellstutter Sprite, Vendilion Clique.

With the add of red we gain a lot of reach with Lightning bolt and a really strong finisher with Cruel Ultimatum.

Lightning bolt lets us deal with Great Stable Stag.


Cruel Ultimatum lets us totally finish a game.

Well guys, I have an Extended tournament coming up in a month and decided to begin working on the format a few days ago. The faster I get my deck ready the more practice I can get out of it. So, this is what I would play:



The list is pretty ordinary with all it's staples and maybe just one that may raise a question-- Disfigure. Disfigure is card that let's me interact with aggro decks starting from the first turn. Disfigure kills Mana dorks, Goblin Guides, Hellspark Elementals, Ball Lightnings, etc.

The least is still in its tuning process. Any other questions don't hesitate to ask.

-Century.

Quote from Mikeš_CZE

Is Consuming Vapors really that great?
for example when your opponent has more creatures than just a Stag on board?

Honestly I am not sold on the card but at the same time it offers us life gain plus creature removal and even if it is not targeted it still hits your opponent twice. I mean personally I do not like it all that much but until something better comes along I have to choose between this and Brittle Effigy.

Why don't you just race the Stag? You're playing a deck with very aggressive and evasive creatures; you can race a 3/3 for 3.

Don't take out Mutavaults for Mystifying Maze if your goal is to shut down 3/3 creatures; just use those 'Vaults to race or use one of them to trade with the Stag. 2 Mutavaults can team-block a Stag to kill it, and one Vault can trade with the Stag heads-up if there's a Scion on the table.

Even still, if you really want to play a land that answers Stag, why not run Gargoyle Castle instead of the Maze? You don't have to invest 5 of your lands over and over again to stave off 3 damage a turn; you can just put a 3/4 on the table and threaten blocks before you decide to start racing harder.

Quote from LordByron

Thank you...
as i said i am quite new to extended and to this deck....
Gargoyle castle sounds very interesting and also quite cheap
ty

Can i ask also help for manabase.
ATM i Have:

• 4 drowned catacombs
  
• 2 secluded glenn
  
• 2 creeping tarpit
  
• 2 scalding tarn
  
• 2 arid mesa
  
• 2 mutavault
  
• X island
  
• X swamp
  

i'd like to use some halimar depths in it (i like those a lot ._.)...and i absolutely don't want SoM duals...(even if they'd be better than catacombs here maybe >.>).

Why do you have4 Arid Mesas if you can't get a single land with it? You probably meant Verdant Catacombs or Marsh Flats; either way, I weighted the options myself and I don't think Fetchlands would go here.

Halimar Depths is horrible in this deck. And not playing SOM Duals is a huge mistake. They are like the Underground Rivers the deck was missing, but without that point of damage. If you play Thoughtseize or any other 1 drops, then you should strongly re-consider your position on the SOM Duals. You should also max out on Secluded Glens and drop 2 Drowned Catacombs.

Have not enough people considered splashing red for more reach (Lightning Bolt) and an answer to GSS (Firespout)? I think it's a great option right now, Brittle Effigy is a 5 mana investment, which I guess is possible with 23+ Lands in the deck, Ratchet Bomb and Warren Weirding are fairly conditional.

Quote from Morbid-

Have not enough people considered splashing red for more reach (Lightning Bolt) and an answer to GSS (Firespout)? I think it's a great option right now, Brittle Effigy is a 5 mana investment, which I guess is possible with 23+ Lands in the deck, Ratchet Bomb and Warren Weirding are fairly conditional.

It would be better to take advantage of what U/B has to offer: IoK can take GSS out, Mutavault, Consuming Vapors, and Consume the Meek. Mindbreak Trap will work too.

EDIT: I read that wrong. My bad.

Quote from Mikeš_CZE

Mana Leak and Flashfreeze are useless against GSS....

You're right. I should have posited Mindbreak Trap.

I am gonna have to start tuning my deck PTQ Nagoya (jan 2nd here in holland). I have this Mimic Vat brew going on and it's actually pretty sweet. I decided to share my decklist for some critique to help me improve the decks game against the expected metagame.

Faerie Vat:



Best tip for this deck. Don't be afraid to tap out for Mimic Vat. Many MANY times in testing it ends up with my opponent playing some sort of threat which either can be chumped with existing faeries (imprint) or you could cast a vendillion clique to chump (yes that is a very good move with this deck).

Jace took me about a week of good testing to convince me it earns 2 spots in faeries. I had Beleren in first. Bitterblossom protects jace very well. The interaction it has with faeries on the board was simply too powerful of a tool for me to ignore. With spellstutter sprite under a mimic vat it should be gg if you have jace in play.

My previous version had 3 Ponders. Needless to say these became 4 preordain rather quickly. Just so happens that they are REALLY good, specially in a 24 land build (which btw i wish i could bump to 25 somehow but the list is rather tight).

Silly but annoying play: Play Mistbind Clique not championing anything to imprint on Mimic Vat. Having a 3 mana, mana short each turn is just hilarious.

I like your deck list a lot YesIamAruban, mine is similar just slightly different and I definitely opted for the Preordains over Ponders as well and having Jace as a 2 of main board.



Mine is slightly more control based it seems but this is practically the same deck lists we are running besides you having Scion of Oona's in the deck and you running Drowned Catacombs instead of Creeping Tar Pit. Also me running Thoughtseize sideboard.

Have you tested Jace's Ingenuity in your build at all? Or for that matter has anyone because it still seems like a great draw spell.

I also feel like we are all forgetting one very important card for control. Everflowing Chalice.

I chose not to run creeping tar pit because at a certain point my mana becomes my weapon. I also found out that i hardly get the chance to tap out for tar pits and mana development is very important for me. I went for the sure untapped into play later in the game.

What might be relevant to my point is that i have Pestermite in my board. I don't how i am going to do it but i want to squeeze one of them in the mainboard. These things are sick on the vat 2 for 1-ing continuously. Pestermite has won me many games keeping threats tapped and effectively taking care of 2 creatures on its own for 3 mana. Basically it's a mini Frost Titan. At turn 6 i want to guarantee myself to be able to put 2 of these at end of turn since the token can untap the Vat itself. For this reason i cut the tar pits.

I actualy have tested Jace's Ingenuity. While it's VERY good. I had to drop it for a more efficient and reliable source of card draw. I had this problem where the draw of this deck was too little. And since in testing my deck can drag the game to turn 5 reliably, why not play a draw spell that REALLY wins you the game ? And by turn 5 i had some creatures WILLING to block for jace. Specially with either bitterblossom or mimic vat in play. I mean what better way to protect jace by chumping for the win right ? I was willing to go sorcery speed for that. In any Fae build jace sticks around when it resolves. Being able to protect it through Mimic Vat basically turns Jace 2.0 text to: As long you can keep 3 mana open with Mimic Vat in play you win the game.