re: search for tomorrow --
I don't see cascading into it as such a bad thing. I haven't played with the deck yet (I want to, it looks suacier than playing guys that cost 2+ mana and put lands into play until you cast a sorcery and hope they don't have some way to counter it), but the theory you get out of it that the search does several things you want to do, even if none of them kill your opponent:
1. searches for a land and the spell that searches for a land, essentially pulling two cards out of your deck, bringing you closer to other business spells
2. it makes your scapeshift or any valakut you have in play more lethal more faster
3. it shuffles your library after cascading, randomizing the scapeshift and BBE you turn over with cascade.
while none of these functions make the card anything like Blightning, they are all combo-relevant things while still punching your opponent for 3 with the elf.
the problem is that because you're playing with both the combo and kind of aggression, you wind up with cards that don't effectively do anything for one strategy over the other. after all, why do I want to play bolt when it's not making my scapeshift more awesome? why BBE or finks for the same? why STE when it's not hitting for 3 and getting me an extra card?
Yea, sure it doesn't help with the aggro plan, but the overall plan is helped. So think of Bloodbraid Elf as a 4 mana Wood Elves that has a bigger body, haste, and doesn't get you a shockland.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
here's a few notes on this version vs the UGR version. Game 1 is heavily in cascadeshifts favor. The aggro plan means a 7 land shift is gonna be lethal instead of waiting for 8. Finks and Jitte main allows a possibility of putting yourself above shift lethal even at 8 lands for lists that don't run magma jet. This list is usually a full turn or two faster than UGR scapeshift in the mirror.
here's a few notes on this version vs the UGR version. Game 1 is heavily in cascadeshifts favor. The aggro plan means a 7 land shift is gonna be lethal instead of waiting for 8. Finks and Jitte main allows a possibility of putting yourself above shift lethal even at 8 lands for lists that don't run magma jet. This list is usually a full turn or two faster than UGR scapeshift in the mirror.
i can understand that but i can't understand how cascade version avoid counters such as cryptic / remand
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i can understand that but i can't understand how cascade version avoid counters such as cryptic / remand
Well from the looks of it, since both decks are aiming for Shift ftw, the aggro version evades the counters by being agressive, a turn 2 Tarmo means the version with counters is on the receiving end of damage earlier. Now mind you, it doesn't make it auto win, but a subtle damage advantage, time walk means little when the opponent is looking to get in there with their guy, it just makes Tarmo bigger. Now that being said I'm not convinced that it is win all against the entire field, Hypergenesis is still fast enough, and Tez still runs a lot of counters, and can wrath the board.
medivh - the only 4 mana spell you would want on turn 3 is bloodbraid. that's hardly an argument.
also, theres nothing wrong with combining similar decks. after all, this is a weave of RG aggro and scapeshift. kotr is quality and synergy.
primal command could work but it feels strange. it feels too narrow; id rather bank on blood moons.
I brought up KotR post 4 - finally we will discuss it! I think it might have place, as it a) helps the aggro plan, b) BBE can grab it, c) it allows you to cycle for a Valakut or more mountains if you happen to have it active already, and d) the Punishing+Grove combo is here, so it can search for the Grove.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Can someone plz explain what is Bloodmoons for?
i see the bloodmoons usage against urg scapeshift and depths combo. is that all?
at worlds me and my teammates declined the usage of bloodmoon since it kills our own scape/punish/treetop
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Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
ugr scapeshift always have Into the Roil ready for blood moon. so i don't think it's a good answer actually. i think Molten rain into blue source are way much better
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ugr scapeshift always have Into the Roil ready for blood moon. so i don't think it's a good answer actually. i think Molten rain into blue source are way much better
I am not sure that fits into the curve. Around the same time we (usually) would be able to cast we would also be able to cast BBE or multiple burn/Goyf.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
so Blood Moon fits the curve and Molten Rain not? em... i'm prolly missing smth. But the main reason not to play Blood Moon in UGR mu is that you have to side out your own scapeshifts to play blood moon. That equals to only one plan: just smash with dudes.
so... i'm still missing smth, or blood moons are not for ugr scape mu.
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so Blood Moon fits the curve and Molten Rain not? em... i'm prolly missing smth. But the main reason not to play Blood Moon in UGR mu is that you have to side out your own scapeshifts to play blood moon. That equals to only one plan: just smash with dudes.
so... i'm still missing smth, or blood moons are not for ugr scape mu.
I'm not entirely sure if Molten Rain fits alongside most of the deck. Our main plan it to build up to a lethal Scapeshift with Ramp effects, and destroying our opponents lands doesn't efficiently help with this. It is still an appealling option if Cascaded into by a BBE, but Search for Tomorrow seems to fit the plan better.
It is still a reasonable plan to SB in the Blood Moon for the Scapeshift MU, because we run a much better creature suite than them. It reduces them to chumping our creatures until they don't have any left.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
As u can notice, there is Dead / Gone tech vs Depths (prolly), and a few Akroma in sb, prolly for Thopter MU.
also minor changes to manabase (to have more chances of hitting black mana), 2x Wood Elves - dunno why, prolly for more creature oriented ramp (jitte wise).
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Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I think Harrow might actually be better in the cascade version. But turn 1 suspending a search is just so powerful. If anything, I would do a 6 searcher split, probably 4 Search/2 Harrow
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
You still have to admit that it is a fairly weak turn one play.
Better than "land, go," like you'd do without it. You're supposed to be playing an aggro deck, not doing anything on turn one is a little awful. Yes, harrow is better off of bloodbraod elf, but i also don't like searching my deck for two lands and only raising my count by one. I'll take search.
I was thinking about playing this deck but was wondering if someone could give me a run down of the match s which are good and which are bad. also about the moon in the sideboard doesn't it hurt the combos in this deck too and what decks do you bring it in against
this deck is no joke.. it really knows how to kick your teeth in.
and to everyone saying search for tomorrow is too week... you're wrong.
actualy play the deck and you'll understand. you really need to get the lands out asap. not only for scapeshift, but to play your bloodbraids, goyfs, activate treetops and equip jitte, ect... very neccessary. and as for harrow... really? so you're going to sac your land only to have it countered? see with search it's not even a possiblility, AND it's the early play you need to be more aggressive vs zoo decks and the like.
ps.. Billy, if you're reading this, i tip my hat to you...
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
this deck is no joke.. it really knows how to kick your teeth in.
and to everyone saying search for tomorrow is too week... you're wrong.
actualy play the deck and you'll understand. you really need to get the lands out asap. not only for scapeshift, but to play your bloodbraids, goyfs, activate treetops and equip jitte, ect... very neccessary. and as for harrow... really? so you're going to sac your land only to have it countered? see with search it's not even a possiblility, AND it's the early play you need to be more aggressive vs zoo decks and the like.
ps.. Billy, if you're reading this, i tip my hat to you...
That's a bit misleading...it wasn't really "all over," but there was a very high concentration of the deck occupying the top tables thoughout the tournament.
I went 4-1-2. The two draws were unintentional and only because I didn't have enough experience with the deck (5 games the previous night). The loss was in round 7 vs. A hypergenesis guy that was running hot all day (comboed turn 2 and turn 1 in the match). But all in all the deck performed extremely well all day and I never felt like a dog to anything I played against (except Hypergenesis).
And Search for Tomorrow was awesome. I like turn 3 Bloodbraid Elf.
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"In the name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished into eternal damnation. Amen."
this deck is no joke.. it really knows how to kick your teeth in.
and to everyone saying search for tomorrow is too week... you're wrong.
actualy play the deck and you'll understand. you really need to get the lands out asap. not only for scapeshift, but to play your bloodbraids, goyfs, activate treetops and equip jitte, ect... very neccessary. and as for harrow... really? so you're going to sac your land only to have it countered? see with search it's not even a possiblility, AND it's the early play you need to be more aggressive vs zoo decks and the like.
ps.. Billy, if you're reading this, i tip my hat to you...
Thanks Popeye (I tihnk I know who you are)
I love this deck. I was lucky enough to top 8 after losing to a good friend first round. He was on burn. Round 2 I had to play a second friend sporting rock. Unfortunately, I knock him out. In any case I also beat the mirror, 2 tribal zoo, 2 fae, an drew with the mirror. In the top 8 I beat thopter and lost to fae in three games. Last game I had him with fires. He then went three mistbnd cliques in a row to beat me. Game was turn 2 BB, turn 3 BB, turn four clique, turn five Clique, and turn six Clique. If any one of those turns were not a clique I get there. O well. I had him at three still. ugh.
Btw this deck is greta to play. I faced many great player Like Lee Cote and Owen Turnwald in the tourney. Lee is always fun to play and Owen well. Anyways, if you tell your opponant to play faster you should to.
Best of times. I will be writting about my match ups and game within a day or two on Newgame-intown.com. If you would like to see my build and my strategies per match ups stop by.
Billy
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I don't see cascading into it as such a bad thing. I haven't played with the deck yet (I want to, it looks suacier than playing guys that cost 2+ mana and put lands into play until you cast a sorcery and hope they don't have some way to counter it), but the theory you get out of it that the search does several things you want to do, even if none of them kill your opponent:
1. searches for a land and the spell that searches for a land, essentially pulling two cards out of your deck, bringing you closer to other business spells
2. it makes your scapeshift or any valakut you have in play more lethal more faster
3. it shuffles your library after cascading, randomizing the scapeshift and BBE you turn over with cascade.
while none of these functions make the card anything like Blightning, they are all combo-relevant things while still punching your opponent for 3 with the elf.
the problem is that because you're playing with both the combo and kind of aggression, you wind up with cards that don't effectively do anything for one strategy over the other. after all, why do I want to play bolt when it's not making my scapeshift more awesome? why BBE or finks for the same? why STE when it's not hitting for 3 and getting me an extra card?
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i can understand that but i can't understand how cascade version avoid counters such as cryptic / remand
Well from the looks of it, since both decks are aiming for Shift ftw, the aggro version evades the counters by being agressive, a turn 2 Tarmo means the version with counters is on the receiving end of damage earlier. Now mind you, it doesn't make it auto win, but a subtle damage advantage, time walk means little when the opponent is looking to get in there with their guy, it just makes Tarmo bigger. Now that being said I'm not convinced that it is win all against the entire field, Hypergenesis is still fast enough, and Tez still runs a lot of counters, and can wrath the board.
- Del
also, theres nothing wrong with combining similar decks. after all, this is a weave of RG aggro and scapeshift. kotr is quality and synergy.
primal command could work but it feels strange. it feels too narrow; id rather bank on blood moons.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I brought up KotR post 4 - finally we will discuss it! I think it might have place, as it a) helps the aggro plan, b) BBE can grab it, c) it allows you to cycle for a Valakut or more mountains if you happen to have it active already, and d) the Punishing+Grove combo is here, so it can search for the Grove.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
i see the bloodmoons usage against urg scapeshift and depths combo. is that all?
at worlds me and my teammates declined the usage of bloodmoon since it kills our own scape/punish/treetop
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I am not sure that fits into the curve. Around the same time we (usually) would be able to cast we would also be able to cast BBE or multiple burn/Goyf.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
so... i'm still missing smth, or blood moons are not for ugr scape mu.
I'm not entirely sure if Molten Rain fits alongside most of the deck. Our main plan it to build up to a lethal Scapeshift with Ramp effects, and destroying our opponents lands doesn't efficiently help with this. It is still an appealling option if Cascaded into by a BBE, but Search for Tomorrow seems to fit the plan better.
It is still a reasonable plan to SB in the Blood Moon for the Scapeshift MU, because we run a much better creature suite than them. It reduces them to chumping our creatures until they don't have any left.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
4 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
6 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Wood Elves
4 Punishing Fire
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Akroma, Angel of Fury
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Blood Moon
3 Extirpate
2 Thought Hemorrhage
As u can notice, there is Dead / Gone tech vs Depths (prolly), and a few Akroma in sb, prolly for Thopter MU.
also minor changes to manabase (to have more chances of hitting black mana), 2x Wood Elves - dunno why, prolly for more creature oriented ramp (jitte wise).
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
No way, search for tomorrow gives you an extra turn one play in a deck that doesn't have many. In a format that's quite fast.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Better than "land, go," like you'd do without it. You're supposed to be playing an aggro deck, not doing anything on turn one is a little awful. Yes, harrow is better off of bloodbraod elf, but i also don't like searching my deck for two lands and only raising my count by one. I'll take search.
my buddy and 2 others made it to top 8.,
this deck is no joke.. it really knows how to kick your teeth in.
and to everyone saying search for tomorrow is too week... you're wrong.
actualy play the deck and you'll understand. you really need to get the lands out asap. not only for scapeshift, but to play your bloodbraids, goyfs, activate treetops and equip jitte, ect... very neccessary. and as for harrow... really? so you're going to sac your land only to have it countered? see with search it's not even a possiblility, AND it's the early play you need to be more aggressive vs zoo decks and the like.
ps.. Billy, if you're reading this, i tip my hat to you...
That's a bit misleading...it wasn't really "all over," but there was a very high concentration of the deck occupying the top tables thoughout the tournament.
I went 4-1-2. The two draws were unintentional and only because I didn't have enough experience with the deck (5 games the previous night). The loss was in round 7 vs. A hypergenesis guy that was running hot all day (comboed turn 2 and turn 1 in the match). But all in all the deck performed extremely well all day and I never felt like a dog to anything I played against (except Hypergenesis).
And Search for Tomorrow was awesome. I like turn 3 Bloodbraid Elf.
Thanks Popeye (I tihnk I know who you are)
I love this deck. I was lucky enough to top 8 after losing to a good friend first round. He was on burn. Round 2 I had to play a second friend sporting rock. Unfortunately, I knock him out. In any case I also beat the mirror, 2 tribal zoo, 2 fae, an drew with the mirror. In the top 8 I beat thopter and lost to fae in three games. Last game I had him with fires. He then went three mistbnd cliques in a row to beat me. Game was turn 2 BB, turn 3 BB, turn four clique, turn five Clique, and turn six Clique. If any one of those turns were not a clique I get there. O well. I had him at three still. ugh.
Btw this deck is greta to play. I faced many great player Like Lee Cote and Owen Turnwald in the tourney. Lee is always fun to play and Owen well. Anyways, if you tell your opponant to play faster you should to.
Best of times. I will be writting about my match ups and game within a day or two on Newgame-intown.com. If you would like to see my build and my strategies per match ups stop by.
Billy