I always forget who said the Hope // Pray quote, but it's a good one. Mostly, what you have to do is hope for a turn 2 Simian Spirit Guide > Violent Outburst that they're not prepared for.
So you pretty much just have to hope for the god hand and can't really do anything else. That really sucks.
In the case you don't have, that how do you play? I don't really feel like auto scooping.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Best video games of all time:
4. Metal Gear Solid
3. Super Mario 64
2. Ocarina of Time
1. Cave Story
^ Seriously, play it and thank me later.
You force them to hold counter mana up, so try to cycle into some of your cheaper spells, like Blood Moon or Fulminator Mage. Other than that, pity or praying works.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
You force them to hold counter mana up, so try to cycle into some of your cheaper spells, like Blood Moon or Fulminator Mage. Other than that, pity or praying works.
Um, Hypergenesis, not Living End...?
Seriously, hands with Simian are great for G1, and don't be a simpleton: If you see an Island and another land, assume they have leak, go off when they tap out. Many players forget we can go off instant speed, so make use of it. If you run Thirst, bait with it at his EOT.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Seriously, hands with Simian are great for G1, and don't be a simpleton: If you see an Island and another land, assume they have leak, go off when they tap out. Many players forget we can go off instant speed, so make use of it. If you run Thirst, bait with it at his EOT.
Ha! I started posting on both the forums and started mixing them up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Alright, I really want to run Terastodon. There is a problem though: I don't quite understand what is allowed with it. I'm going ask a couple of questions and hopefully someone can answer them and the answers can make it to the FAQ on the OP.
1. Can Terastodon destroy an Ardent Plea that was cast to cascade into the Hypergenesis used to put Terastodon on the field? Why (not)?
2. What is the best way to abuse Terastodon and Oblivion Ring coming on the field at the same time? Can we permanently exile a nonland permanent and how? Can we cause multiple Terastodon activations by having ORing target Terastodon and how?
Thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
2. What is the best way to abuse Terastodon and Oblivion Ring coming on the field at the same time? Can we permanently exile a nonland permanent and how? Can we cause multiple Terastodon activations by having ORing target Terastodon and how?
Thanks.
Terasto Wrath: Put your Terastodon ability first, then Oblivion Ring ability on top. Solve Ring, Exile Terastodon. With one of your Terastodon's three targets destoy the ring. Enjoy 3 more targets courtesy of your fresh DUMBO (So 5 Targets, really nice)
Terasto Exile: Put your Oblivion Ring ability first, then Terastodon ability on top. Solve Terastodon ability, destroy the ring. Solve the ring, Exile something you don't really want to see ever But i prefer the Terasto Wrath
1. Can Terastodon destroy an Ardent Plea that was cast to cascade into the Hypergenesis used to put Terastodon on the field? Why (not)?
As far as I am aware the only way to sac an Ardent Plea would be if it were already on the field from a previous casting. I may be wrong, please feel free to correct me.
2. What is the best way to abuse Terastodon and Oblivion Ring coming on the field at the same time? Can we permanently exile a nonland permanent and how? Can we cause multiple Terastodon activations by having ORing target Terastodon and how?
First it's a Non-CREATURE permanent not Non-Land. Next you can permanently Exile a Non-Land Permanent, quoting JoeTrUuU from above who was using my example of Knight of the Reliquary:
So for example if we want the knight to be exiled in example 1 we have to go like this: o-ring targets knight reliquary; terastodon targets land 1, land 2 and o-ring. So know the stack is checked and the last thing that was put on it happens first for the active player. Terastodon triggers go off first and destroys land 1, land 2 and o-ring. Elephants are put into play. This in turn triggers o-ring's second ability and is put on the stack last again and in turn is checked inmediately after the terastodon trigger, since it hasnt removed anything yet nothing will return to play. Then next thing checked on the stack is O-ring's first trigger which was targetting knight of the reliquary and removing it permanently since oring has already been destroyed with its seconds ability already triggered.
Tera ability can be used twice with Oblivion ring, see my previous post but basically when it enters the Battlefield chose Oblivion Ring as one of the targets and have the Ring Target Terra - use the other 2 targets as you see fit. Then when the ring is destroyed it enters the battlefield again and you can use Tera's ability a second time.
Short Answer: NO, Long Answer: NO, Ardent Plea would resolve after Terastodon's Wrath
Terasto Wrath: Put your Terastodon ability first, then Oblivion Ring ability on top. Solve Ring, Exile Terastodon. With one of your Terastodon's three targets destoy the ring. Enjoy 3 more targets courtesy of your fresh DUMBO (So 5 Targets, really nice)
Terasto Exile: Put your Oblivion Ring ability first, then Terastodon ability on top. Solve Terastodon ability, destroy the ring. Solve the ring, Exile something you don't really want to see ever But i prefer the Terasto Wrath
Okay, thanks for these answers. This is what I thought it was, but I wanted to make sure. I guess I'm testing Terastodon/ORing then.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
So you should pretty much never just play stuff and hope it goes off?
You should play stuff expecting it to get countered until you get them tapped out (or close enough), like a Violent Outburst at the end of their turn even though you know it will be countered, it leaves an opening on your turn to Cascade again.
OK, am I the only one who thinks Hypergenesis isn't competitive material, since it automatically looses to any good control player? After all we're not talking about boneheads not leaving mana open for a negate.
And a smart control player in a Hypergenesis heavy meta would probably SB Nix (which is actually decent against anything running cascade as well), meaning all he'll need is an island to end the game. Of course you could try to survive long enough to start throwing your big creatures at him, but any deck running blue will be able to outmaneuver, outdamage, destroy your hand/draw and pretty much outmatch you in every single aspect of the game by then.
When you blatantly ignore that every spell we cast (from turn one/two on for the rest of the game) could win us the game, then of course this deck is terrible. I also must have forgot that good players have infinite mana, and can deal with a turn two Cascade AND ANOTHER Cascade spell on my turn (silly me).
Step back from the keyboard, and think before posting. There will never be a Hypergenesis heavy Meta. It is a Zoo and DD heavy meta (both of which run Negate out of the SB), and yet we still Top 8 at Oakland. That (basically) throws everything you said out the window.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
OK, am I the only one who thinks Hypergenesis isn't competitive material, since it automatically looses to any good control player? After all we're not talking about boneheads not leaving mana open for a negate.
And a smart control player in a Hypergenesis heavy meta would probably SB Nix (which is actually decent against anything running cascade as well), meaning all he'll need is an island to end the game. Of course you could try to survive long enough to start throwing your big creatures at him, but any deck running blue will be able to outmaneuver, outdamage, destroy your hand/draw and pretty much outmatch you in every single aspect of the game by then.
lol
Yamikiri is right: there will never be a Hypergenesis-heavy meta. However, Hypergenesis can easily outmaneuver control players, mainly because they think one counterspell will protect them. I can't tell you the amount of times I have gone off because my opponent tapped out for Cryptic Command the first time I tried to go off that turn or at the end of his turn when they could have easily countered both attempts with two Mana Leaks. And these situations are on Hypergenesis' slow draws. Can you deal with a T1 Hypergenesis? Can you deal with a T2 Hypergenesis on the play? Can you deal with a T0 Hypergenesis on the draw (It is possible when you run a Gemstone Caverns)?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Yes, Teferi completely shuts down Cascade and Suspend. Even if we use Ardent Plea, the Cascaded spell can't be cast, since the stack has a spell on it.
You could even cast Teferi at instant speed in response to a Cascade trigger, and prevent them from Cascading. I think I will test this in the Living End MU.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
The only thing I would change is the SB Ingot Chewer. I wants more. Maybe -1 Darksteel Ingot +1 Ingot Chewer.
On to the report!
R1 Domain Zoo
Shweeeeet!
G1: Mulligan a hand of all cascade and lands into all fatties and land. I got stomped before I can draw a cascade spell.
G2: T3 Ardent plea dropping terastadon, Bogardan and Progenitus. Unfortunately, he drops Baneslayer, Knight, Goyf, Meddling Mage calling Hypergenesis and Sejiri Steppe. I blow up his lands then firespout, and it turns into a race between his Baneslayer and my Prog. On my last turn, I'm at 1, he's at 12, and I draw an Ardent Plea, which cascades into a Hypergenesis that I obviously don't play, and I swing for 12 exacties w/ an exalted Prog.
G3: He overextends into a Firespout, and an Exalted Hellkite wipes things up while a Terastodon holds the fort.
1-0
R2: Dredge
FFFFFFFUUUUU... I skimped on my dredge hate as I didn't think anyone would be running it.
G1: I drop a t3 Hellkite and Terastodon. He drops an Iona. Akward... However I blow up his land and as he is dredging he never gets them back. He whiffs hard on his first 4 dredges, while I beat face w/ Terastodon. Finally he starts hitting Narco's and Bridge's, but I rip a demonic dread like a pro when he swings w/ Iona and a 2/2 Zombie, only holding back a Narco. Narco can't block, I decline to play the Hyper, and swing for the win.
G2: He mulls to 6 and never gets a dredger in the graveyard, while a t3 Prog sweeps the floor.
2-0
Round 3: Teachings
G1: I mull a 1 lander Cascade Fatties into 3 Land Fatties. I have no idea what he's playing, but he EOT Esper Charms me making discard a land and a fatty. I then proceed to draw Violent like a champ, and when he tries to Esper charm me again, I Violent, dropping 2 Bogardans, a Sakashima copying a Bogardan, and a Terastodon destroying 3 of his lands.
G2: All I remember is getting my Hypergenesis nixed, then when I Ricochet trapped it he rune snagged that. Then in response to my next Hypergenesis attempt he flashed Teferi and I scooped.
G3: I kept Gemstone, Gemstone, Reflecting Pool, Fungal, Hyper, Akroma, Angel of Despair. T7 along w/ a Simian Spirit guide I hardcasted Akroma, and he teachinged to find out he boarded out his singleton Doomblade. Akroma wins the game in 2 short swings.
3-0
R4: Elves
G1: Not much to say, he goes first, and while I have a t3 Combo, he hits his t3 and combos off. I make him do it some to make sure he knows how, and scoop.
G2: I keep an okay hand w/ Firespout. I t2 Suspend Hyper, then I have the option of Firespouting a lone Llanowar on my t3 when he has a curio. I decline to, and he t3 comboes off. I try my hardest to make him miss his pact trigger on his upkeep, but I fail. We have a good laugh about it though.
3-1
R4: Zoo
Shweeeet
G1: I fail hard when I play a t3 Ardent getting a Prog and a Hellkite. He drops 2 Goyfs. I assign damage assuming he has an instant in his hand for his goyf, but I forget about hypergenesis resolving and I waste 3 damage on his goyf. In the end I lose by 3 damage. If I had either pointed 1 more at the goyf, or all at his head, I would have won, but such is life.
G2: T3 on the play Ardent into 2 Angels and a O-ring. He doesn't have much, the angels blow up his land, O-ring hits a Meddling, and his 1/1 Loam Lions and Kird Apes can only watch as Angels swing for the win.
G3: Apparently he kept a 1 lander 3 Meddling Mage on the play. I keep 2 land Cascade Fatties, and draw my 3rd land in time, but it is irrelevent as he scoops after his 2nd failed draw step.
4-1
R6: Hivemind
ID
4-1-1
Top 8! It had come down to Hyper or Fae before the tournament, with my friend wanting Fae too. So we rolled for it, I rolled a 15, he rolled a 16. We both started off 3-0, unfortunately he rounded the day off w/ a nice 0-3.
Standings were:
15 Points: Dredge (The one I beat in R2)
14 Points: Elves (The one I lost to in R4)
14 Points: Hive Mind (The one I drew w/)
13 Points: Me!
13 Points: Scapeshift
13 Points: GerryT.dec
13 Points: Bant Zoo
12 Points: Brozek Boros
I would have given my left testicle to play the Boros or Zoo deck, w/ Dredge and Hivemind a close second. Unfortunately I got to play G/R/U Scapeshift.
Quarters: Scapeshift
G1: Best. Game. Ever. He mulls to 5, while I get a t2 on the draw Progenitus, Terastodon and O-ring. I stack the terastodon first, then O-ring, so I blow up all of his and my land. He scoops.
G2: Worst. Game. Ever. He gets a game 1 Chalice on 0, and while I have the nuts T2 Violent hand, my O-ring is remanded then Crypticed, and I lose to a 36 damage Scapeshift.
G3: I mull to 6, and keep a 1 Land Cascade Fatties hand. I miss my first drop, then hit the rest, but it is rendered irrelevant as he again has the T1 Chalice on 0, and I can't draw Ingot Chewer for my life.
4-2-1
Overall, very happy w/ my deck choice, and I played it very tightly except for the Bogardan mistake. I would advocate more people try MD ghostquarters, as it's incredibly relevant in the DDT matchup, and doesn't hurt your manabase as much as one might think.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Creativity is best expressed through products of the masses, not by one man in his basement
GWBJunk: 25-3-2 in Tournament Play
Winner of Worldwake Gameday 2010
WGRBUHypergenesis: 7-3-1 in Tournament Play
Top 4 of San Juan PTQ 2010
Zoo: 3 Firespout, 2 Chewer to get Meddling Mage and Ethersworn Canonist. Thopter Depths: 3 R. Trap, 3 Matrix to stop counterspells and to nullify Hexmage. Fae/Teachings/Tezz/Scapeshift: 4 R. Trap, 3 Chewer to stop counterspells and Chalice@0. Burn/Boros/Idiot Life: 2 Sphinxes, 2-3 Firespout to either set my life total to 10 (burn/Boros) or theirs (idiot life) and to kill possible Ethersworn Canonist. Elf Combo: 3 Firespout will suffice for killing their early stuff.
I usually side out Oblivion Ring first and some combination of fat (usually not more than 2). (I run a Saito-type list with Iona, Shield of Emeria)
I am considering changing the Damping Matrix for Leyline of the Void to also have a card to combat Dredge and Living End as well as Thopter Depths.
Is Malfegor a good choice to side in in Mirror / Depths?
P.S i also was playing Hypergenesis pre-Austin, and there was a nice tech in playing stuff like Wipe Away and Vendilion, since you can eot their hate cards or just untaped lands to push your cascade through counterspells and hate. Is Ricochet trap so much better versus counterspells?
Thirst is too slow against Zoo, as the game is very much still a race even after a Hypergenesis. Hell, I lost a game after I mis-used a Hellkite. I put a Hellkite and a Prog into play, to his 2 Goyfs. He only had a land and a creature in the GY before, so he tried to be helpful and said 2 to each goyf and 1 to me? I knew something was up since he had 1 card in hand and a mountain untapped, so I said 3 to the goyf and 2 to you. I forgot about the Hypergenesis though, so Goyf lived as a 3/4. I ended up losing the race, with my Hellkite getting pathed. If I had either gone all straight at his face I would have won, or if I had gone 4 at a goyf and 1 at his face.
I was afraid of Blood Moon, hence the ingots, however I was never sure if they brought them in, hence the two. In both matches, they did, but never saw them.
That's what I played against and how I boarded during the day. Again, the 2 Ghost Quarters were never painful, and were very helpful even against the Zoo matchup, and I never played Dark Depths. Also, they had the potential to blow out Scapeshift. I definitely want the extra Ingot Chewer, over a Darksteel Ingot probably.
This is almost an exact copy of Saito's sideboard from the GP, with Ravenous Trap over Leyline (Presumably for Budget Reasons), and Malfegor over Sakashima as Saito expressed. I didn't feel the need to have 4 Dredge hate, so I bumped it down to two. The reason being that we can beat dredge pre and post sb fairly easy. Our combo is the same speed as theirs, and they have little to no disruption preboard. They can't deal w/ a Prog, and if we Terastadon their lands away they are too busy dredging to get more.
Also, I felt like more anti-Zoo/Elves was appropriate, hence the playset of Firespout. Since I am playing GQ MD, Malfegor seemed redundant, and requires us to have comboed to work, not the most effective hate. Also, I am the only Hyper player in my Meta, a nice touch as people skimp on hate. I feel like the lack of Akroma's is rather painful, as it becomes almost our main wincon against incredible control decks such as Teachings or Tezzy Control.
I played Hypergenesis at PTQ London, ON Canada last weekend. There were 83 competitors. General synopsis of the deck was 21 lands, 10 cascade spells and creatures consisting of Iona, Bogardon Hellkite, Progenitus, Angel of Despair, Sundering Titan. No Terastadon shenanigans and no card draw (TfK). I can post a deck list once I get a bit more time.
R1: Won 2-0 vs B/W Aggro
First game, opponent had illegal decklist. Second, my hand was Gemstone Mine, SSG x 2, Hypergenesis, Violent Outburst, Progenitus, Iona. Opponent palyed first with Thoughtseize and picked Hypergenesis >.<
R2: Won 2-0 vs DDT
First game hit storage lands early and was able to stick a hardcasted Angel of Despair, blowing up Thopter Foundry. Second game, opponent got TF/Sword of the Meek early, but tapped out at end of my turn 4 and was able to Hyper into AoD, Iona and Sundering Titan.
R3: Lost 2-0 vs DDT
First game kept a bad hand and got Thoughtseized to shreds. Second:
Turn 1: Urborg, Thoughtseize
Turn 2: Dark Depth, Vampire Hexmage
Turn 3: Dead
R4: Won 2-1 vs Brozak
Game 1 saw turn 2 Iona, Game 2 saw nothing and Game 3 saw double Empyrial Archangel
R5: Won 2-0 vs RDW
Mulled to 4 on the draw and proceeded to get Iona Sakashima on turn 3. Game 2 mulled to 5 and got Iona turn 3
R6: Won 2-0 vs Tribal Zoo
Game 1 comboed on turn 3 for Iona and others. Game 2 got Negated on turn 3, comboed on turn 4 for Proggy, Iona and Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
R7: ID with Hypergenesis
Quarters: Won 2-0 vs Aggro Scapeshift
First game was able to combo on turn 5 for Iona, shutting him down.
Second game opponent attempted Cranial Extraction on his 3rd turn, my 2nd. I Outburst in response for Sundering Titan and Angel of Despair, then hardcast Sakashima for another Titan
Semis: Lost 2-1 to Landfall Zoo
First game saw me take early beats and after Hypergenesis resolved and triggers were finished, my opponent had no lands, a Kird Ape and a Steppe Lynx at 17 life and I had a Proggy and was at 4 life. I decided to play defense with my opponent not dropping land for the rest of the game and I comboes again about 5 turns later.
Game 2 saw 2 Steppe Lynxes hitting me for 12 on turn 3. I didnt have combo.
Game 3 was a heartbreaker. I mull to 6 and have Tendo Ice Bridge, Calciform Pools, Violent Outburst, Demonic Dread, Empyrial and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Knowing that he will likely kill me by turn 4 I decide to keep, only to draw a second Empyrial, an AoD, and worst of all, a Gemstone Caverns.
To summarize, with 2 Hypergenesis decks making Top 8 here, and seeing more aggro, I would play hyper again in a heartbeat.
__________________
New card choices: I know, the Murmuring Bosk looks weird, but I will explain: I run the fetches with 1 basic Forest and several shocklands so that I don't completely scoop to Blood Moon. I wanted to limit the amount of shocklands I wanted to run to make more room for gold lands and had trouble deciding whether I wanted a dual with black to cast Demonic Dread or a dual with white to cast Oblivion Ring and/or Ardent Plea. In the end, Murmuring Bosk is a fetchable solution that provided both, so I think it will work nicely. I also had Damping Matrix in the SB, but I thought about it and wanted something more general to deal with Thopter Depths along with other decks, and Leyline of the Void fits that nicely, combatting the Thopter combo, Dredge, Living End, and other decks with graveyard manipulation. Currently testing a singleton Ghost Quarter MD for DD, we will see how it goes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
i'm using Wipe Away as a sb card for DD mu. It's also good at combating early Iona from dredge, any hate aka chalice / canonist. and good in control MU for stufff like bouncing their land eot for mana denial. so u can push cascade mainphase
@all: can you comment your expirience using Terastodon? since i found it a bit clunky, though his ability to be hardcasted via storage lands won me quite a few games
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2009 season: 18 pro-points. going for more in 2010!
@all: can you comment your expirience using Terastodon? since i found it a bit clunky, though his ability to be hardcasted via storage lands won me quite a few games
I think he is great. The favorable interactions with ORing and Ardent Plea, for one, make it pretty synergistic. I also like it because I find it quite flexible. If you think Terastodon is clunky, than you would think Sundering Titan (the best analogue that was run in Hypergenesis in the past) is even more so. I enjoy being able to choose what lands to kill and the option of killing troubling enchants/artifacts is good as well. I also run Iona, so usually if I am able to land Iona and Terastodon, I can choose to destroy the lands of one color and have Iona name the other to lock them out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
hey everyone...
just thought of a way to beat Chalice of the Void (besides waiting till it rotates), use Boseiju, Who Shelters All and hardcast the Hypergenesis. It will be uncounterable when it resolves.
1) Compulsive Research would be better choice over TFK, ideas?
2) Coalition relic helps matches vs Blood Moon and long-term matches.
3) Gemstone Cavern is not so good, and we can prolly switch it for other land.
p.s there is an idea for DD mu: sideout all hypers, sb in 1 Thopter foundry and 1 Sword of the meek, ideas?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2009 season: 18 pro-points. going for more in 2010!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So you pretty much just have to hope for the god hand and can't really do anything else. That really sucks.
In the case you don't have, that how do you play? I don't really feel like auto scooping.
Best video games of all time:
4. Metal Gear Solid
3. Super Mario 64
2. Ocarina of Time
1. Cave Story
^ Seriously, play it and thank me later.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Um, Hypergenesis, not Living End...?
Seriously, hands with Simian are great for G1, and don't be a simpleton: If you see an Island and another land, assume they have leak, go off when they tap out. Many players forget we can go off instant speed, so make use of it. If you run Thirst, bait with it at his EOT.
Ha! I started posting on both the forums and started mixing them up.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
1. Can Terastodon destroy an Ardent Plea that was cast to cascade into the Hypergenesis used to put Terastodon on the field? Why (not)?
2. What is the best way to abuse Terastodon and Oblivion Ring coming on the field at the same time? Can we permanently exile a nonland permanent and how? Can we cause multiple Terastodon activations by having ORing target Terastodon and how?
Thanks.
Short Answer: NO, Long Answer: NO, Ardent Plea would resolve after Terastodon's Wrath
Terasto Wrath: Put your Terastodon ability first, then Oblivion Ring ability on top. Solve Ring, Exile Terastodon. With one of your Terastodon's three targets destoy the ring. Enjoy 3 more targets courtesy of your fresh DUMBO (So 5 Targets, really nice)
Terasto Exile: Put your Oblivion Ring ability first, then Terastodon ability on top. Solve Terastodon ability, destroy the ring. Solve the ring, Exile something you don't really want to see ever But i prefer the Terasto Wrath
As far as I am aware the only way to sac an Ardent Plea would be if it were already on the field from a previous casting. I may be wrong, please feel free to correct me.
First it's a Non-CREATURE permanent not Non-Land. Next you can permanently Exile a Non-Land Permanent, quoting JoeTrUuU from above who was using my example of Knight of the Reliquary:
Tera ability can be used twice with Oblivion ring, see my previous post but basically when it enters the Battlefield chose Oblivion Ring as one of the targets and have the Ring Target Terra - use the other 2 targets as you see fit. Then when the ring is destroyed it enters the battlefield again and you can use Tera's ability a second time.
So you should pretty much never just play stuff and hope it goes off?
Best video games of all time:
4. Metal Gear Solid
3. Super Mario 64
2. Ocarina of Time
1. Cave Story
^ Seriously, play it and thank me later.
Okay, thanks for these answers. This is what I thought it was, but I wanted to make sure. I guess I'm testing Terastodon/ORing then.
You should play stuff expecting it to get countered until you get them tapped out (or close enough), like a Violent Outburst at the end of their turn even though you know it will be countered, it leaves an opening on your turn to Cascade again.
When you blatantly ignore that every spell we cast (from turn one/two on for the rest of the game) could win us the game, then of course this deck is terrible. I also must have forgot that good players have infinite mana, and can deal with a turn two Cascade AND ANOTHER Cascade spell on my turn (silly me).
Step back from the keyboard, and think before posting. There will never be a Hypergenesis heavy Meta. It is a Zoo and DD heavy meta (both of which run Negate out of the SB), and yet we still Top 8 at Oakland. That (basically) throws everything you said out the window.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
lol
Yamikiri is right: there will never be a Hypergenesis-heavy meta. However, Hypergenesis can easily outmaneuver control players, mainly because they think one counterspell will protect them. I can't tell you the amount of times I have gone off because my opponent tapped out for Cryptic Command the first time I tried to go off that turn or at the end of his turn when they could have easily countered both attempts with two Mana Leaks. And these situations are on Hypergenesis' slow draws. Can you deal with a T1 Hypergenesis? Can you deal with a T2 Hypergenesis on the play? Can you deal with a T0 Hypergenesis on the draw (It is possible when you run a Gemstone Caverns)?
You could even cast Teferi at instant speed in response to a Cascade trigger, and prevent them from Cascading. I think I will test this in the Living End MU.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
PTQ San Juan
I chose obviously Hypergenesis, this was my list:
3 Angel of Despair
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Progenitus
4 Terrastodon
1 Sakashima the Impostor
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Instant: 10
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Violent Outburst
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Demonic Dread
3 Hypergenesis
Enchantment: 4
4 Ardent Plea
Land: 21
3 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Calciform Pools
3 Fungal Reaches
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Ingot Chewer
2 Leyline of the Void
4 Firespout
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Ricochet Trap
The only thing I would change is the SB Ingot Chewer. I wants more. Maybe -1 Darksteel Ingot +1 Ingot Chewer.
On to the report!
R1 Domain Zoo
Shweeeeet!
G1: Mulligan a hand of all cascade and lands into all fatties and land. I got stomped before I can draw a cascade spell.
G2: T3 Ardent plea dropping terastadon, Bogardan and Progenitus. Unfortunately, he drops Baneslayer, Knight, Goyf, Meddling Mage calling Hypergenesis and Sejiri Steppe. I blow up his lands then firespout, and it turns into a race between his Baneslayer and my Prog. On my last turn, I'm at 1, he's at 12, and I draw an Ardent Plea, which cascades into a Hypergenesis that I obviously don't play, and I swing for 12 exacties w/ an exalted Prog.
G3: He overextends into a Firespout, and an Exalted Hellkite wipes things up while a Terastodon holds the fort.
1-0
R2: Dredge
FFFFFFFUUUUU... I skimped on my dredge hate as I didn't think anyone would be running it.
G1: I drop a t3 Hellkite and Terastodon. He drops an Iona. Akward... However I blow up his land and as he is dredging he never gets them back. He whiffs hard on his first 4 dredges, while I beat face w/ Terastodon. Finally he starts hitting Narco's and Bridge's, but I rip a demonic dread like a pro when he swings w/ Iona and a 2/2 Zombie, only holding back a Narco. Narco can't block, I decline to play the Hyper, and swing for the win.
G2: He mulls to 6 and never gets a dredger in the graveyard, while a t3 Prog sweeps the floor.
2-0
Round 3: Teachings
G1: I mull a 1 lander Cascade Fatties into 3 Land Fatties. I have no idea what he's playing, but he EOT Esper Charms me making discard a land and a fatty. I then proceed to draw Violent like a champ, and when he tries to Esper charm me again, I Violent, dropping 2 Bogardans, a Sakashima copying a Bogardan, and a Terastodon destroying 3 of his lands.
G2: All I remember is getting my Hypergenesis nixed, then when I Ricochet trapped it he rune snagged that. Then in response to my next Hypergenesis attempt he flashed Teferi and I scooped.
G3: I kept Gemstone, Gemstone, Reflecting Pool, Fungal, Hyper, Akroma, Angel of Despair. T7 along w/ a Simian Spirit guide I hardcasted Akroma, and he teachinged to find out he boarded out his singleton Doomblade. Akroma wins the game in 2 short swings.
3-0
R4: Elves
G1: Not much to say, he goes first, and while I have a t3 Combo, he hits his t3 and combos off. I make him do it some to make sure he knows how, and scoop.
G2: I keep an okay hand w/ Firespout. I t2 Suspend Hyper, then I have the option of Firespouting a lone Llanowar on my t3 when he has a curio. I decline to, and he t3 comboes off. I try my hardest to make him miss his pact trigger on his upkeep, but I fail. We have a good laugh about it though.
3-1
R4: Zoo
Shweeeet
G1: I fail hard when I play a t3 Ardent getting a Prog and a Hellkite. He drops 2 Goyfs. I assign damage assuming he has an instant in his hand for his goyf, but I forget about hypergenesis resolving and I waste 3 damage on his goyf. In the end I lose by 3 damage. If I had either pointed 1 more at the goyf, or all at his head, I would have won, but such is life.
G2: T3 on the play Ardent into 2 Angels and a O-ring. He doesn't have much, the angels blow up his land, O-ring hits a Meddling, and his 1/1 Loam Lions and Kird Apes can only watch as Angels swing for the win.
G3: Apparently he kept a 1 lander 3 Meddling Mage on the play. I keep 2 land Cascade Fatties, and draw my 3rd land in time, but it is irrelevent as he scoops after his 2nd failed draw step.
4-1
R6: Hivemind
ID
4-1-1
Top 8! It had come down to Hyper or Fae before the tournament, with my friend wanting Fae too. So we rolled for it, I rolled a 15, he rolled a 16. We both started off 3-0, unfortunately he rounded the day off w/ a nice 0-3.
Standings were:
15 Points: Dredge (The one I beat in R2)
14 Points: Elves (The one I lost to in R4)
14 Points: Hive Mind (The one I drew w/)
13 Points: Me!
13 Points: Scapeshift
13 Points: GerryT.dec
13 Points: Bant Zoo
12 Points: Brozek Boros
I would have given my left testicle to play the Boros or Zoo deck, w/ Dredge and Hivemind a close second. Unfortunately I got to play G/R/U Scapeshift.
Quarters: Scapeshift
G1: Best. Game. Ever. He mulls to 5, while I get a t2 on the draw Progenitus, Terastodon and O-ring. I stack the terastodon first, then O-ring, so I blow up all of his and my land. He scoops.
G2: Worst. Game. Ever. He gets a game 1 Chalice on 0, and while I have the nuts T2 Violent hand, my O-ring is remanded then Crypticed, and I lose to a 36 damage Scapeshift.
G3: I mull to 6, and keep a 1 Land Cascade Fatties hand. I miss my first drop, then hit the rest, but it is rendered irrelevant as he again has the T1 Chalice on 0, and I can't draw Ingot Chewer for my life.
4-2-1
Overall, very happy w/ my deck choice, and I played it very tightly except for the Bogardan mistake. I would advocate more people try MD ghostquarters, as it's incredibly relevant in the DDT matchup, and doesn't hurt your manabase as much as one might think.
Creativity is best expressed through products of the masses, not by one man in his basement
Winner of Worldwake Gameday 2010
Top 4 of San Juan PTQ 2010
thx for report kind of a great one. Can you plz write down your sideboard plans?
same question to other ppl in this thread
My SB currently is:
3 Ingot Chewer
4 Ricochet Trap
3 Damping Matrix
2 Magister Sphinx
Zoo: 3 Firespout, 2 Chewer to get Meddling Mage and Ethersworn Canonist.
Thopter Depths: 3 R. Trap, 3 Matrix to stop counterspells and to nullify Hexmage.
Fae/Teachings/Tezz/Scapeshift: 4 R. Trap, 3 Chewer to stop counterspells and Chalice@0.
Burn/Boros/Idiot Life: 2 Sphinxes, 2-3 Firespout to either set my life total to 10 (burn/Boros) or theirs (idiot life) and to kill possible Ethersworn Canonist.
Elf Combo: 3 Firespout will suffice for killing their early stuff.
I usually side out Oblivion Ring first and some combination of fat (usually not more than 2). (I run a Saito-type list with Iona, Shield of Emeria)
I am considering changing the Damping Matrix for Leyline of the Void to also have a card to combat Dredge and Living End as well as Thopter Depths.
2 Firespout
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Malfegor
4 Ravenous Trap
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Shriekmaw
Is Malfegor a good choice to side in in Mirror / Depths?
P.S i also was playing Hypergenesis pre-Austin, and there was a nice tech in playing stuff like Wipe Away and Vendilion, since you can eot their hate cards or just untaped lands to push your cascade through counterspells and hate. Is Ricochet trap so much better versus counterspells?
Zoo: -3 Thirst for Knowledge -1 Iona -1 Hypergenesis -1 Oblivion Ring,+4 Firespout +2 Darksteel Ingot
Thirst is too slow against Zoo, as the game is very much still a race even after a Hypergenesis. Hell, I lost a game after I mis-used a Hellkite. I put a Hellkite and a Prog into play, to his 2 Goyfs. He only had a land and a creature in the GY before, so he tried to be helpful and said 2 to each goyf and 1 to me? I knew something was up since he had 1 card in hand and a mountain untapped, so I said 3 to the goyf and 2 to you. I forgot about the Hypergenesis though, so Goyf lived as a 3/4. I ended up losing the race, with my Hellkite getting pathed. If I had either gone all straight at his face I would have won, or if I had gone 4 at a goyf and 1 at his face.
I was afraid of Blood Moon, hence the ingots, however I was never sure if they brought them in, hence the two. In both matches, they did, but never saw them.
Dredge: -2 Thirst for Knowledge +2 Leyline of the Void
Elves: -3 Thirst for Knowledge -1 Hypergenesis +4 Firespout
Teachings: -3 Thirst for Knowledge -2 Oblivion Ring +3 Ricochet Trap +2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
Scapeshift: +3 Ricochet Trap +1 Ingot Chewer -3 Thirst for Knowledge -1 Oblivion Ring
That's what I played against and how I boarded during the day. Again, the 2 Ghost Quarters were never painful, and were very helpful even against the Zoo matchup, and I never played Dark Depths. Also, they had the potential to blow out Scapeshift. I definitely want the extra Ingot Chewer, over a Darksteel Ingot probably.
Edit:
2 Firespout
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Malfegor
4 Ravenous Trap
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Shriekmaw
This is almost an exact copy of Saito's sideboard from the GP, with Ravenous Trap over Leyline (Presumably for Budget Reasons), and Malfegor over Sakashima as Saito expressed. I didn't feel the need to have 4 Dredge hate, so I bumped it down to two. The reason being that we can beat dredge pre and post sb fairly easy. Our combo is the same speed as theirs, and they have little to no disruption preboard. They can't deal w/ a Prog, and if we Terastadon their lands away they are too busy dredging to get more.
Also, I felt like more anti-Zoo/Elves was appropriate, hence the playset of Firespout. Since I am playing GQ MD, Malfegor seemed redundant, and requires us to have comboed to work, not the most effective hate. Also, I am the only Hyper player in my Meta, a nice touch as people skimp on hate. I feel like the lack of Akroma's is rather painful, as it becomes almost our main wincon against incredible control decks such as Teachings or Tezzy Control.
Creativity is best expressed through products of the masses, not by one man in his basement
Winner of Worldwake Gameday 2010
Top 4 of San Juan PTQ 2010
R1: Won 2-0 vs B/W Aggro
First game, opponent had illegal decklist. Second, my hand was Gemstone Mine, SSG x 2, Hypergenesis, Violent Outburst, Progenitus, Iona. Opponent palyed first with Thoughtseize and picked Hypergenesis >.<
R2: Won 2-0 vs DDT
First game hit storage lands early and was able to stick a hardcasted Angel of Despair, blowing up Thopter Foundry. Second game, opponent got TF/Sword of the Meek early, but tapped out at end of my turn 4 and was able to Hyper into AoD, Iona and Sundering Titan.
R3: Lost 2-0 vs DDT
First game kept a bad hand and got Thoughtseized to shreds. Second:
Turn 1: Urborg, Thoughtseize
Turn 2: Dark Depth, Vampire Hexmage
Turn 3: Dead
R4: Won 2-1 vs Brozak
Game 1 saw turn 2 Iona, Game 2 saw nothing and Game 3 saw double Empyrial Archangel
R5: Won 2-0 vs RDW
Mulled to 4 on the draw and proceeded to get Iona Sakashima on turn 3. Game 2 mulled to 5 and got Iona turn 3
R6: Won 2-0 vs Tribal Zoo
Game 1 comboed on turn 3 for Iona and others. Game 2 got Negated on turn 3, comboed on turn 4 for Proggy, Iona and Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
R7: ID with Hypergenesis
Quarters: Won 2-0 vs Aggro Scapeshift
First game was able to combo on turn 5 for Iona, shutting him down.
Second game opponent attempted Cranial Extraction on his 3rd turn, my 2nd. I Outburst in response for Sundering Titan and Angel of Despair, then hardcast Sakashima for another Titan
Semis: Lost 2-1 to Landfall Zoo
First game saw me take early beats and after Hypergenesis resolved and triggers were finished, my opponent had no lands, a Kird Ape and a Steppe Lynx at 17 life and I had a Proggy and was at 4 life. I decided to play defense with my opponent not dropping land for the rest of the game and I comboes again about 5 turns later.
Game 2 saw 2 Steppe Lynxes hitting me for 12 on turn 3. I didnt have combo.
Game 3 was a heartbreaker. I mull to 6 and have Tendo Ice Bridge, Calciform Pools, Violent Outburst, Demonic Dread, Empyrial and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Knowing that he will likely kill me by turn 4 I decide to keep, only to draw a second Empyrial, an AoD, and worst of all, a Gemstone Caverns.
To summarize, with 2 Hypergenesis decks making Top 8 here, and seeing more aggro, I would play hyper again in a heartbeat.
__________________
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Pillar of the Paruns
2 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Murmuring Bosk (new)
1 Ghost Quarter (new)
4 Angel of Despair
4 Terastodon
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Progenitus
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Akroma's Memorial
4 Ardent Plea
4 Violent Outburst
2 Demonic Dread
3 Ingot Chewer
4 Ricochet Trap
2 Magister Sphinx
3 Leyline of the Void (new)
@all: can you comment your expirience using Terastodon? since i found it a bit clunky, though his ability to be hardcasted via storage lands won me quite a few games
I think he is great. The favorable interactions with ORing and Ardent Plea, for one, make it pretty synergistic. I also like it because I find it quite flexible. If you think Terastodon is clunky, than you would think Sundering Titan (the best analogue that was run in Hypergenesis in the past) is even more so. I enjoy being able to choose what lands to kill and the option of killing troubling enchants/artifacts is good as well. I also run Iona, so usually if I am able to land Iona and Terastodon, I can choose to destroy the lands of one color and have Iona name the other to lock them out.
Modern
R/ Boros W/
U/ Eldrazi-Post G/
Top 8'd:
2x Tcg Player Qualifiers
1x MWS Series Trial
Top'16:
PTQ Austin
PTQ Paris
Extended:
RIP
Legacy: Zoo
"I am the beast of America"
Props to Hakai Studios for the banner
just thought of a way to beat Chalice of the Void (besides waiting till it rotates), use Boseiju, Who Shelters All and hardcast the Hypergenesis. It will be uncounterable when it resolves.
1) Compulsive Research would be better choice over TFK, ideas?
2) Coalition relic helps matches vs Blood Moon and long-term matches.
3) Gemstone Cavern is not so good, and we can prolly switch it for other land.
p.s there is an idea for DD mu: sideout all hypers, sb in 1 Thopter foundry and 1 Sword of the meek, ideas?