tanarin- i actually would recommend you to run 4 fanatic and 3 spark elemental. the reason is simple. Zoo gains might of alara, which people maybe be interested to run zoo now and the deck has high damage... it would help if you could have something to block with. as for the ? , play spree... they help to kill affinty and chalice.
not running 4 spark elemental is a HUGE mistake. the reason is simple. the more lightning bolts this deck has the faster it is. you cannot possible justify going down to three by mentioning one card that is not played much in a deck that is losing popularity.
normally we ran 21 lands, so the fanatic was 4... he ran 22 land... have to cut something.
unfortunately , might of alara is played in the goyf burn build in my country... as in can achieve a lot of damage... having notenuff blockers is suicidal.
If you have a faerie dominated field, run 2 sudden shock...
normally we ran 21 lands, so the fanatic was 4... he ran 22 land... have to cut something.
unfortunately , might of alara is played in the goyf burn build in my country... as in can achieve a lot of damage... having notenuff blockers is suicidal.
well then he should run 21 lands instead of 22. if you really needed to run 22 lands i would cut something else. burn isnt called the lightning bolt deck for nothing.
normally we ran 21 lands, so the fanatic was 4... he ran 22 land... have to cut something.
unfortunately , might of alara is played in the goyf burn build in my country... as in can achieve a lot of damage... having notenuff blockers is suicidal.
If you have a faerie dominated field, run 2 sudden shock...
Or you could just do combat tricks with burn and try to 2-1 them... That situation is a bit less likely than people abusing might of alara in "goyf burn" assuming they know what they are doing in play.
they can return the faerie via riptide lab if volcanic fallout is used, but they cannot response using sudden shock. how bad can a good utility burn gets? in addition, sudden shock make chilli crab out of arcbound ravenger, etc... i tested it for awhile, it think it's quite good against faerie. It does what it's suppose to do. and that's stop silly faerie recursion.
Volcanic fallout and sudden shock have different role, one is a mass removal and the other is a split second removal that gets ard soft lock, i don really think that one is better than the other. It is like comparing condemn and wrath of god in standard.
normally goyf gets the pump... how are u going to 2-1 a 5/6 goyf?
I went 5-2. Placed 18th out of 123 people. 6-1 would have got me into the top 8
I took out one main deck Spark Elemental and put a one of Volcanic Fallout in its place. I am REALLY glad I did this. It helped out A LOT on game one. I designed the side board to try and have as many answers as possible. The Needles were a last minute addition and WELL worth it. I had no idea of what to expect the meta to be like, so I had to try and squeeze as much in as possible. FYI, the Keldon Megaliths were useless. I would have rather ran one Boseiju, Who Shelters All and another mountain or something.
Here is run down on the decks I faced.
Round One: Wizards 2-1
I lost the first game due to a crappy hand. Games two and three were easy. In fact, game three ended with me still at 20. Didn't even draw or need any of the Fallouts I boarded in. Felt good just knowing they were in the deck though, lol.
Round Two: Slide 2-1
Game one was easy. Got a Vortex in play on my third turn. Playing Needle naming his Loam on the fourth turn helped too. Game two I lost do too lots of life gain and no Vortex to stop it. Game three was also easy thanks to drawing 3 Vortexes.
Round Three: Bant Control 0-2
I couldn't handle the god draws of multiple 4/5 Goofys that would be 5/6 if I try and Shrapnel Blast them.
Round Four: Mono-White Control 1-2
I won game one even though when he was at 11 he sacked Martyr to bring him back to 20. Game two I just got slaughtered. Game three I got him down to 13 then he went up to 28 thanks to Martyr. I got him down to 6 before I died.
Round Five: Zoo 2-0
He might as well of not even tried. Game one I killed him while staying at 20 life. Game two I won with 17 life.
Round Six: Slide 2-0
Both games really easy with Vortexes and Blood Hands galore. A few Gilded Lights made it annoying though. Just make sure to bait with a spell before trying to Shrapnel Blast as I was doing. Don't want to lose a land for nothing. I'm lucky I found out he was running them main deck before playing a Shrapnel Blast.
Round Seven: Elves! 2-0
Both easy games. Volcanic Fallout = Auto Win.
If you have any questions I did not cover or I did not go into enough detail for you, please let me know. I will try my best to remember.
How did the Blood Moons work for you? Would you have rather had Everlasting Torment in your side as it seems like there was a fair bit of white to play against. What else did you find the Pithing Needle helpful with?
nice report.
How do you like FOTBH, honestly, i know it helped in one of your slide matches, but overall would it have been better as a smaller burn or somethng? Also, how was MD 2x smash to smithereens, was it necessary?
Private Mod Note
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Montreal, QC
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
The smash is nice in the mirror, and is a solid anti-jitte. Since the majority of decks in the format are either affinity, rdw, or run jitte smash is pretty relevant for main board, does the job while not sacrificing damage.
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Modern UWR UWR Mid-Range GBW Junk Legacy RBG Punishing Jund Vintage 0 Ichorid X MUD
Minor detail, but why would you not run 4 Blinkmoths and 1 citadel? I know that effectively makes Shrapnel blast cost 1 more, but I would think the benefit of having more/larger Blinkmoths would out weight that.
I like your list, the only big difference I'm thinking about is hellspark elemental instead of the marauders. Anyone have thoughts on that?
if you're really, really set on hellspark (i dont like it at all for this deck), replace incinerate with them. the marauders are extremely awesome in so many ways, and hellspark would simply play a different role in the deck than hellspark. but hey, to each his own; i'd like to hear some results for hellspark at a PTQ
note: by making this replacement, i guarantee that your zoo matchup will become much worse
How did the Blood Moons work for you? Would you have rather had Everlasting Torment in your side as it seems like there was a fair bit of white to play against. What else did you find the Pithing Needle helpful with?
I didn't have use for the Blood Moons. My next build won't have any. I would rather have +2 more Ensnaring Bridge than the moon. Or maybe +1 Bridge and Fallout/Needle. Needle in my opinion is way better than E. Torment. Especially when I'm already running Vortexes. I do think the deck could benefit from one more Vortex though. Maybe take out the MD Fallout. I used the needle for Loam and Martyr. I could have used to for so much more though. Examples: Decree of Justice, Jitte, Eternal Dragon, Mutavault, Riptide Lab. and many more.
nice report.
How do you like FOTBH, honestly, i know it helped in one of your slide matches, but overall would it have been better as a smaller burn or somethng? Also, how was MD 2x smash to smithereens, was it necessary?
FOTBH is awesome. I did side board it out some games where I knew I wouldn't need it. But I feel it is a must MD. The two Smashes where awesome MD. You might be able to only run one, but definately not more than two. Blew up some artifact lands in the wizard deck that he fetched with a Trinket Mage and blew up a few Jittes.
Minor detail, but why would you not run 4 Blinkmoths and 1 citadel? I know that effectively makes Shrapnel blast cost 1 more, but I would think the benefit of having more/larger Blinkmoths would out weight that.
I like your list, the only big difference I'm thinking about is hellspark elemental instead of the marauders. Anyone have thoughts on that?
I had no use for the Blinkmoths besides Shrapnel Blast and the one game I needed to use as a chump blocker to survive another turn. I might consider running 3 but not 4. I was trying to keep the colorless mana producers down to a minimum. Six like I had is good, but I wouldn't go over seven personally. The Keldons need to go for sure. So I would probably add one more Darksteel and either another Blinkmoth or Mountain. I like Darksteel over Blinkmoth cause Bant Charm and Ghost Quarter seem to be everywhere. Not to metion a mirror match with them MDing Smashes as well.
For me I think Marauders is better than Hellspark and Spark Elemental even. Marauders helps hold back attacks against you. That alone helps you win games.
Edit: I actually found myself sideboarding out Spark Elemental quite a bit.
pithing needle doesnt work against loam because dredge isnt an activated ability. that being said i think needle could be very good especially against cop red. im probably going to play 2 sideboard.
As for flames for me it has never been more than a 3 mana 4 dmg burn spell. i am planning to take those out so i can run smash to smithereens md because of all the affinity that i expect.
hellspark elemental is EXTREMELY good in this deck because he always comes back for more. it turns any land heavy hand into the nuts. hellspark is also very hard for a faeries player to deal with because it is uncounterable.
4 blinkmoth nexus is a must in this deck because it is a 1/1 beater when you run out of gas. he has won me many games and the fact that he makes shrapnel blast cost one more has not been too big of an issue.
hellspark does not always come back for more, i would even say that it usually does not come back for more, as it can easily be blocked on turns 3+ (theres this ugly fellow named tarmogoyf...). often times its also hard to get through for 3 when you play it from your hand and you're on the draw. i will agree with you that its pretty good in the faeries matchup, but there are much better card choices for almost every other matchup.
4 blinkmoths is debatable... i like what they can do at the end of the game, but its also sometimes very important to play shrapnel blast for 2 mana. i run 3 blinkmoths and 3 citadels as a balance.
again, i dont think there issues have a definite answer, a lot of it just comes down to personal card taste. this is just my 2 cents
LOL about Dredge and Pithing Needle! I never read the comp rules on Dredge. Never once thought that it WASN'T an activated ability. I'm not the only one either, lol. My opponent responded with, "Ooooh, nice choice." when I played Needle naming Loam. He either didn't have any or didn't play it figuring there was no point, lol.
Yeah, it is good against COP: Red too. Can't believe I forgot to list that one. It was one of the main reasons I picked it over E. Torment. Does the same thing really vs COP and its cheaper.
Flames can never be a dead card though. Smash can and will be. Thats why I stuck with two. There was at least one game I remember for sure where I had two sitting in my hand with nothing to target for a turn or two till I got lucky and the guy played a Jitte. They were my last two cards in hand. For real artifact hate, thats what Shattering Spree is for. I really wanted to run 4 in my SB, but as it turned out, I didn't need them. Lucky me! Heck, I even had 2 Shrapnel Blasts dead in hand one game, lol.
I never once needed a Blinkmoth to win me a game by helping ping for one. The fact that it costs more to Shrapnel Blast is a none issue for me. I never had a chance to swing with a Blinkmoth cause I was usually too busy tapping it to play a burn spell for more damage. I also ran 2 Keldons for when I ran out of gas. Never used those either. The game was usually over by the time I would be able to use it.
If you want to run Hellsparks, replace the Spark Elementals, not the Marauders.
hellspark does not always come back for more, i would even say that it usually does not come back for more, as it can easily be blocked on turns 3+ (theres this ugly fellow named tarmogoyf...). often times its also hard to get through for 3 when you play it from your hand and you're on the draw. i will agree with you that its pretty good in the faeries matchup, but there are much better card choices for almost every other matchup.
4 blinkmoths is debatable... i like what they can do at the end of the game, but its also sometimes very important to play shrapnel blast for 2 mana. i run 3 blinkmoths and 3 citadels as a balance.
again, i dont think there issues have a definite answer, a lot of it just comes down to personal card taste. this is just my 2 cents
i have found that hellspark almost always comes back for more because most decks are not content to sit back on a tarmogoyf and not attack. the only matchup where hellspark does not consistently come back for more is against loam. even then if they do not get a creature out fast hellspark is going to deal his 6 damage.
Flames can never be a dead card though. Smash can and will be. Thats why I stuck with two. There was at least one game I remember for sure where I had two sitting in my hand with nothing to target for a turn or two till I got lucky and the guy played a Jitte. They were my last two cards in hand. For real artifact hate, thats what Shattering Spree is for. I really wanted to run 4 in my SB, but as it turned out, I didn't need them. Lucky me! Heck, I even had 2 Shrapnel Blasts dead in hand one game, lol.
I never once needed a Blinkmoth to win me a game by helping ping for one. The fact that it costs more to Shrapnel Blast is a none issue for me. I never had a chance to swing with a Blinkmoth cause I was usually too busy tapping it to play a burn spell for more damage. I also ran 2 Keldons for when I ran out of gas. Never used those either. The game was usually over by the time I would be able to use it.
If you want to run Hellsparks, replace the Spark Elementals, not the Marauders.
yes im quite aware about smash being a potentially dead card. thats why im very hesitant on running them. if i do run them i am only going to play 2.
i replaced incinerate with hellspark and i run 4 spark elemental 4 keldon and 4 hellspark.
summoning sickness. any creature-heavy decks will have creatures readily available to block.
and most players who know what they are doing will block your hellspark elemental if its in your graveyard and your hand is low. especially if they are about to die and it seems to be your only way to deal lethal damage...
summoning sickness. any creature-heavy decks will have creatures readily available to block.
and most players who know what they are doing will block your hellspark elemental if its in your graveyard and your hand is low. especially if they are about to die and it seems to be your only way to deal lethal damage...
hellspark elemental is slightly worse against Loam and Zoo. however they are absolutely stellar against everyone else. even in these matchups they have been getting in there for 6 at least half of the time.
Personally, I'm very willing to have a slightly worse card in the two best matchups the deck has anyway, in order to improve every single other one.
This is a very important point to remember. Even if Hellspark is worse against Zoo/Loam, if it is good enough and helps other matchups... then it's worth playing. I haven't tested yet, but this logic is solid.
its definitely pretty bad against affinity. and if you add all those decks together that its subpar against, you get 70% of the metagame. and that doesnt even mean its "better" in the other 30%; i would say its only better against faeries and blue control varients. and while zoo and loam decks are somewhat favorable, they are certainly not even close to a guaranteed win, and hellspark would make the matchup much more even. the cons seem to blatently outway the pros considering the current meta, but hey, i guess we can agree to disagree
hellspark is not bad against affinity at all. none of their creatures are very large except for master of etherium. there are very few creatures they can block with without them dying. i have never had a hellspark that didnt get in there for 6 when i needed it to against affinity.
i repeat that hellspark is only slightly worse than incinerate against zoo and loam and at times it is better. while it is always much better against any blue control or affinity.
not running 4 spark elemental is a HUGE mistake. the reason is simple. the more lightning bolts this deck has the faster it is. you cannot possible justify going down to three by mentioning one card that is not played much in a deck that is losing popularity.
unfortunately , might of alara is played in the goyf burn build in my country... as in can achieve a lot of damage... having not enuff blockers is suicidal.
If you have a faerie dominated field, run 2 sudden shock...
“(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1”
well then he should run 21 lands instead of 22. if you really needed to run 22 lands i would cut something else. burn isnt called the lightning bolt deck for nothing.
no. sudden shock is absolutely terrible. hellspark elemental is better in almost ever situation against faeries.
Or you could just do combat tricks with burn and try to 2-1 them... That situation is a bit less likely than people abusing might of alara in "goyf burn" assuming they know what they are doing in play.
Volcanic fallout is better than sudden shock.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Volcanic fallout and sudden shock have different role, one is a mass removal and the other is a split second removal that gets ard soft lock, i don really think that one is better than the other. It is like comparing condemn and wrath of god in standard.
normally goyf gets the pump... how are u going to 2-1 a 5/6 goyf?
“(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1”
wouldn't shatterstorm be a viable sb option to nuke affinity decks?
official rules advisor. it gets me there.
2x Keldon Megaliths
10x Mountain
2x Blinkmoth Nexus
3x Darksteel Citadel
4x Great Furnace
Creatures (11)
4x Mogg Fanatic
3x Spark Elemental
4x Keldon Marauders
3x Incinerate
3x Flames of the Blood Hand
4x Shrapnel Blast
1x Volcanic Fallout
4x Magma Jet
2x Smash to Smithereens
Sorceries (8)
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
3x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Volcanic Fallout
3x Shattering Spree
2x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Pithing Needle
2x Blood Moon
I went 5-2. Placed 18th out of 123 people. 6-1 would have got me into the top 8
I took out one main deck Spark Elemental and put a one of Volcanic Fallout in its place. I am REALLY glad I did this. It helped out A LOT on game one. I designed the side board to try and have as many answers as possible. The Needles were a last minute addition and WELL worth it. I had no idea of what to expect the meta to be like, so I had to try and squeeze as much in as possible. FYI, the Keldon Megaliths were useless. I would have rather ran one Boseiju, Who Shelters All and another mountain or something.
Here is run down on the decks I faced.
Round One: Wizards 2-1
I lost the first game due to a crappy hand. Games two and three were easy. In fact, game three ended with me still at 20. Didn't even draw or need any of the Fallouts I boarded in. Felt good just knowing they were in the deck though, lol.
Round Two: Slide 2-1
Game one was easy. Got a Vortex in play on my third turn. Playing Needle naming his Loam on the fourth turn helped too. Game two I lost do too lots of life gain and no Vortex to stop it. Game three was also easy thanks to drawing 3 Vortexes.
Round Three: Bant Control 0-2
I couldn't handle the god draws of multiple 4/5 Goofys that would be 5/6 if I try and Shrapnel Blast them.
Round Four: Mono-White Control 1-2
I won game one even though when he was at 11 he sacked Martyr to bring him back to 20. Game two I just got slaughtered. Game three I got him down to 13 then he went up to 28 thanks to Martyr. I got him down to 6 before I died.
Round Five: Zoo 2-0
He might as well of not even tried. Game one I killed him while staying at 20 life. Game two I won with 17 life.
Round Six: Slide 2-0
Both games really easy with Vortexes and Blood Hands galore. A few Gilded Lights made it annoying though. Just make sure to bait with a spell before trying to Shrapnel Blast as I was doing. Don't want to lose a land for nothing. I'm lucky I found out he was running them main deck before playing a Shrapnel Blast.
Round Seven: Elves! 2-0
Both easy games. Volcanic Fallout = Auto Win.
If you have any questions I did not cover or I did not go into enough detail for you, please let me know. I will try my best to remember.
2x Keldon Megaliths
10x Mountain
2x Blinkmoth Nexus
3x Darksteel Citadel
4x Great Furnace
Creatures (11)
4x Mogg Fanatic
3x Spark Elemental
4x Keldon Marauders
3x Incinerate
3x Flames of the Blood Hand
4x Shrapnel Blast
1x Volcanic Fallout
4x Magma Jet
2x Smash to Smithereens
Sorceries (8)
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
3x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Volcanic Fallout
3x Shattering Spree
2x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Pithing Needle
2x Blood Moon
nice report.
How do you like FOTBH, honestly, i know it helped in one of your slide matches, but overall would it have been better as a smaller burn or somethng? Also, how was MD 2x smash to smithereens, was it necessary?
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
UWR UWR Mid-Range
GBW Junk
Legacy
RBG Punishing Jund
Vintage
0 Ichorid
X MUD
Minor detail, but why would you not run 4 Blinkmoths and 1 citadel? I know that effectively makes Shrapnel blast cost 1 more, but I would think the benefit of having more/larger Blinkmoths would out weight that.
I like your list, the only big difference I'm thinking about is hellspark elemental instead of the marauders. Anyone have thoughts on that?
note: by making this replacement, i guarantee that your zoo matchup will become much worse
I didn't have use for the Blood Moons. My next build won't have any. I would rather have +2 more Ensnaring Bridge than the moon. Or maybe +1 Bridge and Fallout/Needle. Needle in my opinion is way better than E. Torment. Especially when I'm already running Vortexes. I do think the deck could benefit from one more Vortex though. Maybe take out the MD Fallout. I used the needle for Loam and Martyr. I could have used to for so much more though. Examples: Decree of Justice, Jitte, Eternal Dragon, Mutavault, Riptide Lab. and many more.
FOTBH is awesome. I did side board it out some games where I knew I wouldn't need it. But I feel it is a must MD. The two Smashes where awesome MD. You might be able to only run one, but definately not more than two. Blew up some artifact lands in the wizard deck that he fetched with a Trinket Mage and blew up a few Jittes.
I had no use for the Blinkmoths besides Shrapnel Blast and the one game I needed to use as a chump blocker to survive another turn. I might consider running 3 but not 4. I was trying to keep the colorless mana producers down to a minimum. Six like I had is good, but I wouldn't go over seven personally. The Keldons need to go for sure. So I would probably add one more Darksteel and either another Blinkmoth or Mountain. I like Darksteel over Blinkmoth cause Bant Charm and Ghost Quarter seem to be everywhere. Not to metion a mirror match with them MDing Smashes as well.
For me I think Marauders is better than Hellspark and Spark Elemental even. Marauders helps hold back attacks against you. That alone helps you win games.
Edit: I actually found myself sideboarding out Spark Elemental quite a bit.
As for flames for me it has never been more than a 3 mana 4 dmg burn spell. i am planning to take those out so i can run smash to smithereens md because of all the affinity that i expect.
hellspark elemental is EXTREMELY good in this deck because he always comes back for more. it turns any land heavy hand into the nuts. hellspark is also very hard for a faeries player to deal with because it is uncounterable.
4 blinkmoth nexus is a must in this deck because it is a 1/1 beater when you run out of gas. he has won me many games and the fact that he makes shrapnel blast cost one more has not been too big of an issue.
4 blinkmoths is debatable... i like what they can do at the end of the game, but its also sometimes very important to play shrapnel blast for 2 mana. i run 3 blinkmoths and 3 citadels as a balance.
again, i dont think there issues have a definite answer, a lot of it just comes down to personal card taste. this is just my 2 cents
Yeah, it is good against COP: Red too. Can't believe I forgot to list that one. It was one of the main reasons I picked it over E. Torment. Does the same thing really vs COP and its cheaper.
Flames can never be a dead card though. Smash can and will be. Thats why I stuck with two. There was at least one game I remember for sure where I had two sitting in my hand with nothing to target for a turn or two till I got lucky and the guy played a Jitte. They were my last two cards in hand. For real artifact hate, thats what Shattering Spree is for. I really wanted to run 4 in my SB, but as it turned out, I didn't need them. Lucky me! Heck, I even had 2 Shrapnel Blasts dead in hand one game, lol.
I never once needed a Blinkmoth to win me a game by helping ping for one. The fact that it costs more to Shrapnel Blast is a none issue for me. I never had a chance to swing with a Blinkmoth cause I was usually too busy tapping it to play a burn spell for more damage. I also ran 2 Keldons for when I ran out of gas. Never used those either. The game was usually over by the time I would be able to use it.
If you want to run Hellsparks, replace the Spark Elementals, not the Marauders.
i have found that hellspark almost always comes back for more because most decks are not content to sit back on a tarmogoyf and not attack. the only matchup where hellspark does not consistently come back for more is against loam. even then if they do not get a creature out fast hellspark is going to deal his 6 damage.
yes im quite aware about smash being a potentially dead card. thats why im very hesitant on running them. if i do run them i am only going to play 2.
i replaced incinerate with hellspark and i run 4 spark elemental 4 keldon and 4 hellspark.
and most players who know what they are doing will block your hellspark elemental if its in your graveyard and your hand is low. especially if they are about to die and it seems to be your only way to deal lethal damage...
hellspark elemental is slightly worse against Loam and Zoo. however they are absolutely stellar against everyone else. even in these matchups they have been getting in there for 6 at least half of the time.
Undecided
Extended/Standard+
:symg::symw: Elves! :symw::symg:
EDH
:symr::symb: Wort, Boggart Auntie :symb::symr:
Kiku, Night's Flower
This is a very important point to remember. Even if Hellspark is worse against Zoo/Loam, if it is good enough and helps other matchups... then it's worth playing. I haven't tested yet, but this logic is solid.
i repeat that hellspark is only slightly worse than incinerate against zoo and loam and at times it is better. while it is always much better against any blue control or affinity.
so thats anywhere between 7-12 creatures