shard volley works great - im quite surprised that some people dont run it. i personally feel like its much better than incinerate in this deck; incenerate just seems so clunky at times. when you're trying to finish off the game and you're tight on mana, having a shard volley as opposed to the clunky incinerate can make a difference between finishing them off or not.
i agree with you about shard volley being better in finishing off your opponent. however you need to get there first and im not too keen on sacrificing my recources before i have too. this card is also a complete dog to spellstutter sprite. in short volley is better against aggresive decks that you have to race but it is worse against slower control decks.
note on smash to smithereens: very good - having 2 of these in the main has saved me in several game 1's, and it has rarely been a dead card. when it is a dead card, its usually in a matchup thats win-able anyways (except elves, where you get a crazy advantage post-board)
im still not sold on playing smash maindeck because i feel that if we get any more than 1 dead card we simply lose the game. smash will be a dead card against more decks than you think. it is usually a dead card in naya zoo, loam rock, and faeries when they dont get a jitte.
note on hellspark elemental: i dont like it at all; its even more clunky than incinerate. it looks really good on paper but its nearly impossible to resolve the damage late-game. zoo owns this card
the main reason why im playing hellspark is because of faeries. i think this card helps the matchup emensely because it is uncounterable damage unless they have stifle. it is also very useful in smothing out those land heavy hands where you dont get enough burn spells.
i would say that shard volley is the reason incinerate is clunky...yes we have a tight mana base. im pretty sure why you are scraping for lands is you are either playing volley to early or trying to play other cards around volley
-smash to smithereens is only a dead card vs elves and deathcloud period... 1) fae gets jitte 80% of games because of CA 2) zoo is playing sculler for teps 3) we should be hosing loamcloud anyway as they only play finks for lifegain and have 8 beaters which is far to slow
-incinerate is better then hellspark elemental because you can draw there counters at eot (resolving vortex with out this is very hard) and vortex=gg
yes and about 5+ damage to us...MRB cant afford to splash, unlike zoo our burn doesnt stick around to deal more damage (lightning helix would go in over tribal flames anyway) you could run 4x ancient den over citadels and a 3-4 sacred foundry
1) its spells snared 2) its in SSS range 3) we need all the life we can vs zoo and burn playing painlands = we die. 4) incinerate is needed to draw out counters in oponents turn so that you can play keldon or vortex in your turn.
look at it this way in agro matchs lightning helix deals 6 damage while flames deals 0 or less
-again please people this is the competetive forum which means random ideas that havnt been playtested need to be in DFC section not here
tribal flames is a terrible card in this deck because it is very conditional and takes a few turns to set up. if you are going to only play red shocklands you will be able to play a full powered flames by turn 4 at the earliest.
by playing this card you will give up the consistency that makes this deck good and it will make the matchups with aggressive decks much much worse. tribal flames is simply not good in a MONO RED deck.
edit: i cant believe we are actually discussing this card :/
I've been looking at cards that could go in this deck, and I was wondering whether Fiery Temper would be any good, and maybe in conjunction with, say, Chains of Plasma. What are other people's thoughts on this?
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chain needs to be delt to you or a creature you control to be able o let you discard.
tigrenzo i didnt bring the idea to the table so i dnt have 2 test. incinerate is spell snared in oponents upkeep which is awesome for us....as you are free to cast shrapnel, keldons and vortex in our turn. if any card that we needed multi colored lands for it would be lightnening helix not flames
-adrian sulivans new and old list was played on M-L and did very porrly and both builds were out classed by the normal burn (volcanic fallout is good vs fae....and nothing else)
Hey, I decided to take the plunge into extended and invested some money into this deck. I had a question though. How well would Guttural Response work in this deck? Now I do play Legacy Burn and I run upwards of 8 REB/Pyroblasts. While I know Response only hits blue instants, would you still consider playing them in the board as a possible 3 of?
Edit: Also while I am at it, what about reiterate. It is a slightly more expensive Fork, but would there be a possible use for it?
This is the build I have been playing, minus the Pyrostatic Pillars I have yet to get for the sideboard. But I need to take Seal of Fire out for something that isnt Browbeat because it is too unreliable or Shard Volley because of the "pumping tarmogoyf" argument
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
for your two spots i would dedicate them for the mirror so dragon's claw would be a good idea i think. besides that yeah the deck is pretty standard but solid.
p.s the sb may change depending on what i see there (if no teps i will drop pillar, if no DC or martyr will drop needle) o and this is a pretty small ptq as im from New Zealand
I am seeing from the deck lists on here that most decks run artifacts of some kind, so a 2-of StS in the main should in theory help. Also I did go up one on the lands to support the extra shard volley. Other than that I dunno what to put in the last two spots of my SB. I was originally thinking Guttural Response, but I dunno if that is the best plan. I could go Everlasting Torment if I see a rise in CoP: Red.
I am seeing from the deck lists on here that most decks run artifacts of some kind, so a 2-of StS in the main should in theory help. Also I did go up one on the lands to support the extra shard volley. Other than that I dunno what to put in the last two spots of my SB. I was originally thinking Guttural Response, but I dunno if that is the best plan. I could go Everlasting Torment if I see a rise in CoP: Red.
i can understand the StS but im not sure i like them in the main; those could very easily be dead cards. in place of them id suggest giving Hellspark Elemental a try. 6 damage with one card is good, and it can unearth even if it gets countered.
ET may indeed be a good sb card cause almost every deck ive seen with white lately has a least a couple CoP:R, plus it shuts down jitte, and finks.
smash o smithereens is your second ot vs jitte (vortex being first) only elves is this card dead.
well as for the ptq i dnt really want to talk about it but a guess i should. i should have known new zealanders were to poor to play fae.....1st game mirror and i mull twice both games....wtf!!! seound match teps, third match affinity, drop after judges realise i that my deck stated that i was playing 4 seaside citadels instead of darksteel citadel (yes i was tired and hungova....give me a break) all in all mono red burn got pwnd today accept 1 made top 8 but as from watchin him play (hes a friend of mine) we discussed decks and he plays 19 lands and pretty much every game i watched he top decked or got mana screwed + he only plays 2 shrapnel blast (which from testing and discussions doesnt seem that bad as shrapnel blast is usually a t4 play and doesnt always resolve)
tanarin- i actually would recommend you to run 4 fanatic and 3 spark elemental. the reason is simple. Zoo gains might of alara, which people maybe be interested to run zoo now and the deck has high damage... it would help if you could have something to block with. as for the ? , play spree... they help to kill affinty and chalice.
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tanarin- i actually would recommend you to run 4 fanatic and 3 spark elemental. the reason is simple. Zoo gains might of alara, which people maybe be interested to run zoo now and the deck has high damage... it would help if you could have something to block with. as for the ? , play spree... they help to kill affinty and chalice.
Nice advice on spree i guess...
Zoo is already a good enough MU for this deck. +No one is playing might of alara, though it would be good against burn.
i agree with you about shard volley being better in finishing off your opponent. however you need to get there first and im not too keen on sacrificing my recources before i have too. this card is also a complete dog to spellstutter sprite. in short volley is better against aggresive decks that you have to race but it is worse against slower control decks.
im still not sold on playing smash maindeck because i feel that if we get any more than 1 dead card we simply lose the game. smash will be a dead card against more decks than you think. it is usually a dead card in naya zoo, loam rock, and faeries when they dont get a jitte.
the main reason why im playing hellspark is because of faeries. i think this card helps the matchup emensely because it is uncounterable damage unless they have stifle. it is also very useful in smothing out those land heavy hands where you dont get enough burn spells.
-smash to smithereens is only a dead card vs elves and deathcloud period... 1) fae gets jitte 80% of games because of CA 2) zoo is playing sculler for teps 3) we should be hosing loamcloud anyway as they only play finks for lifegain and have 8 beaters which is far to slow
-incinerate is better then hellspark elemental because you can draw there counters at eot (resolving vortex with out this is very hard) and vortex=gg
look at it this way in agro matchs lightning helix deals 6 damage while flames deals 0 or less
-again please people this is the competetive forum which means random ideas that havnt been playtested need to be in DFC section not here
by playing this card you will give up the consistency that makes this deck good and it will make the matchups with aggressive decks much much worse. tribal flames is simply not good in a MONO RED deck.
edit: i cant believe we are actually discussing this card :/
"No Terravores were hurt in the making of this post." ~ kalkris
tigrenzo i didnt bring the idea to the table so i dnt have 2 test. incinerate is spell snared in oponents upkeep which is awesome for us....as you are free to cast shrapnel, keldons and vortex in our turn. if any card that we needed multi colored lands for it would be lightnening helix not flames
-adrian sulivans new and old list was played on M-L and did very porrly and both builds were out classed by the normal burn (volcanic fallout is good vs fae....and nothing else)
Edit: Also while I am at it, what about reiterate. It is a slightly more expensive Fork, but would there be a possible use for it?
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well vexing shusher just hoses fae from testing so why not just play them
4 Spark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
2 Shard Volley
4 Lava Spike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shrapnel Blast
2 Smash to Smithereens
4 Rift Bolt
3 Browbeat
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Great Furnace
3 Darksteel Citadel
4? Guerrilla Tactics
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Smash to Smithereens
4 Pithing Needle
The Tactics is mainly against Loam and possible rouge discard decks, but I do not know how many I should have.
I'm also missing a couple of cards for the sboard, but I do not know what to put in.
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4 Keldon Marauders
4 Spark Elemental
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Seal of Fire
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
10 Mountain
4 Hellspark Elemental
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Volcanic Fallout
1 Shattering Spree
This is the build I have been playing, minus the Pyrostatic Pillars I have yet to get for the sideboard. But I need to take Seal of Fire out for something that isnt Browbeat because it is too unreliable or Shard Volley because of the "pumping tarmogoyf" argument
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
“(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1”
pheonix@: loam decks are a really good match up for this deck you dont need tactics
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
10 Mountain
Creatures (12)
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Spark Elemental
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Seal of Fire
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Volcanic Fallout
2 Shattering Spree
2 Smash to Smithereens
1.0 -> 2.0 = -! seal of fire, +1 Sulfuric Vortex
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
why do they own the mirror? for killing claw?
oh, and V 2.0 has the changes u guys suggested
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
ok people 2moro im taking this build to a ptq and will be posting results after
4x great furnace
4x darksteel citadel
2x blinkmoth nexus
11x mountain
creatures
4x keldon marauders
4x mogg fanatic
4x spark elemental
4x rift bolt
4x lava spike
4x shrapnel blast
4x sulfuric vortex
4x incinerate
2x seal of fire
2x flames of the bloodhand
3x smash to smithereens
4x vexing shusher
3x ensnaring bridge
3x pithing needle
4x pyrostatic pillar
1x shattering spree
p.s the sb may change depending on what i see there (if no teps i will drop pillar, if no DC or martyr will drop needle) o and this is a pretty small ptq as im from New Zealand
12 Mountains
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
Creatures
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Spark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauder
2 Shard Volley
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Shrapnel Blast
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
Sorceries
4 Rift Bolts
4 Lava Spike
4 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Volcanic Fallout
2 ???
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i can understand the StS but im not sure i like them in the main; those could very easily be dead cards. in place of them id suggest giving Hellspark Elemental a try. 6 damage with one card is good, and it can unearth even if it gets countered.
ET may indeed be a good sb card cause almost every deck ive seen with white lately has a least a couple CoP:R, plus it shuts down jitte, and finks.
well as for the ptq i dnt really want to talk about it but a guess i should. i should have known new zealanders were to poor to play fae.....1st game mirror and i mull twice both games....wtf!!! seound match teps, third match affinity, drop after judges realise i that my deck stated that i was playing 4 seaside citadels instead of darksteel citadel (yes i was tired and hungova....give me a break) all in all mono red burn got pwnd today accept 1 made top 8 but as from watchin him play (hes a friend of mine) we discussed decks and he plays 19 lands and pretty much every game i watched he top decked or got mana screwed + he only plays 2 shrapnel blast (which from testing and discussions doesnt seem that bad as shrapnel blast is usually a t4 play and doesnt always resolve)
“(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1”
Nice advice on spree i guess...
Zoo is already a good enough MU for this deck. +No one is playing might of alara, though it would be good against burn.
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