MTG Salvation

Bogan,

I don't see why not? Who's to say you can't run some of the same components and I would believe going the artifact way would actually allow you more flexibility in splashing some silver bullets. I'll try to post an updated version tonight or tomorrow.

Odie

hmm...you say reflection isn't needed, just so you know, sometimes it is the only thing keeping the deck going, btw, how many spells are standard before a desire cause mine gets 6+ before popping a desire, I have been able to get 10 before a desire before.

hmmm...

it seems to me though that the lotus version can't live without a lotus where the land enchant versions can survive the lose of one particular enchantment (not that anyone would cranial for wild growth or the like), the lotus version is vunerable to instant removal (aka, shatter) where there is no instant LD that targets basic lands (that I know of)

The heartbeat version suffers kind of the same fate but it can live without heartbeat of spring and just have an extreamly hard time.

I'll try them anyway.

oh yeah, and i'm thinking about running burning wish and one desire in the board to help make sure you get one.

I never really liked the lotus version to begin with. It was a nice way of getting lots of mana, but I think the heartbeat and enchant land versions are much more efficient of doing the same thing. I dont think lots of people are going to be running lots of enchantment hate, and will have more of it geared towards artifacts... like shatter, oxidize, overload, ect. The only thing im wondering now is if the splash in white for maindeck familiars, which make blue AND green spells cheaper, and the one SB Chant is worth it. Might it be better with the red for burning wish to grab a desire or anything else you might need to go off? quick decklist:

Burning Desire



Now, i just tossed this together off the top of my head, so I have no idea how this might work. Now the deck is pretty much extraction-proof to a degree. The SB i know is almost wrong, cept for the counters, some of the draw\tutor, and the desire, tendrils, hunting pack, and freeze.

although chrome mox helps some, I have found that I don't want to remove anything in my hand but lands as everything else is essential to keep it going.

Of course you could remove it then wish for it.

I think the most usefull thing to wish for with burning wish is your removed insideous dreams to get back more of your draw/untap spells by discarding lands.


BTW, counters?

you only really need one to keep them from countering your kill

sorry, ment nostalgic dreams

I was playing around with this a little earlier, and it just didnt seem to work very well. It was infact going off a turn later than it should of, but when it did go off, the storm count was very, very high. Something's off, but im not sure what. First thing to go is the Moxen. They get you that turn 1 elder, but the disadvantage is bad. What I really think this deck needs is alot of efficient draw spells that you have with Words of Wisdom, Trade Secrets, and even Fact\Deep Anal. The small amount of recursion is awesome too. Are there any better recursion pieces, and any better draw spells?

for the harvest decks I would suggest using revive to get back early harvest and your land search (aka elder and rampant growth)

I also agree that mox is bad for the deck because you have to get rid of a card you would otherwise need.

this is the version i'm going to goldfish a little later.

I guess I would have to try out the reflection desire once to say yea or nay (I do like enchantments, but have been stuck in a rut with them in my enchantress deck).

I did play Twiddle Desire during its final heyday in standard and I had a lot of fun with it. Artifact destruction did hurt it, but losing the Lotus wasn't ever the problem. It was losing that Chrome Mox or Pentad Prism the turn before I'd go off. I'd normally wait to play the Lotus until I was ready to go. The most interesting duel I had was playing a friend of mine that was W/G with massive lifegain. On his fifth turn he play Beacon of Immortality for the second time (had some land acc. to play it 4th turn) and was at 80 life). On my fifth turn I tendrils him twice for a total of 106 life. The shop attendant was more into Vintage and not so much Standard and was really surprised at the speed. Nevertheless if I had to try out a Twiddle Desire deck today I'd start with something like this:




I haven't worked out yet if there is anything from 9th that would be appropriate. Either way (artifact or enchantment) I believe that Desire can be a good contender for Tier 1 or 1.5 in the up and coming extended.

Discuss amongst ourselves,

Odie

Quote from Arcadianemetai »

there is no instant LD that targets basic lands (that I know of)

Rain of Rust ... moot point since it's overcosted, but it does exist

and Bogan .. you're thinking of Sleight of Hand, not Serum Visions

Yay for correcticism...

Quote from Bogan »

Well, Serum Visions from Portal, 7th, and 9th is much better than Opt when it comes to combo. Rather than just seeing one card, you get to see both. Combo doesn't care about instants.

Visions=5th Dawn last I checked...you mean sleight of hand?

Bogan,

Very true. Sleight of Hand would be better then Opt. I was also thinking that with the artifact version you would have better results then the enchantment version against what will be probably one of the most defining cards of the set; Pernicious Deed. I'm thinking that the Desire player would have more to lose from a Deed hitting a couple of enchants then a couple of artifacts (though this is just speculation). Any thoughts?

If a deed player has a deed out AND the mana to activate the turn you go off the you are booming too late.

Its actually alot harder to go off with desire post rotation. The earliest the versions I have been testing go off are bout turn 4, which is using a possible godhand. Turn 1 birds, turn 2 deed, turn 3 pop. So Rock can ruin your complete set-up.

mine generally goes turn 3....yeah, that play could be a problem, however that is their wishful hand against us, if they don't get it off turn 3 then they won' be able to.

Thats one of the problems playing with Heartbeat. If someone else is playing a deed, and your like Heartbeat, they have even more mana to put out something like Spiritmonger, or blow a deed for 3 and follow with a witness or troll or something that might start to hurt. Heartbeat makes fast decks go faster, and thats really why I want to shy away from it, but yet, it makes this deck go off sooner. And that is good, providing you dont get pummeled by little red men or ravagers first.

Heres the updated list for GWU Desire:

I had heard some things about Holistic Wisdom. With a Trade Secrets and an Early Harvest, you could go through just about the whole deck most likely. Then Brain Freeze them a few times. 3 to play, 2 to use, but with Heartbeat you can get it going 4th turn with an Early Harvest. As long as you have the mana, you can do silly things with Fact or Fiction and Gift's Ungiven too. That may be the recursion that you are looking for. It is reusable and that is a good thing.

Quote from MikeIs1337357 »

Thats one of the problems playing with Heartbeat. If someone else is playing a deed, and your like Heartbeat, they have even more mana to put out something like Spiritmonger, or blow a deed for 3 and follow with a witness or troll or something that might start to hurt. Heartbeat makes fast decks go faster, and thats really why I want to shy away from it, but yet, it makes this deck go off sooner. And that is good, providing you dont get pummeled by little red men or ravagers first.

Heres the updated list for GWU Desire:

LordofDoom's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder 4 Sunscape Familiar 2 Eternal Witness Spells 4 Mind's Desire 4 Cunning Wish 4 Heartbeat of Spring 3 Words of Wisdom 3 Gifts Ungiven 3 Early Harvest 3 Revive 2 Trade Secrets 1 Tendrils of Agony 1 Brain Freeze 1 Restock 1 Nostalgic Dreams	Mana Base 1 Plains 4 Windswept Heath 8 Forest 7 Island	Sideboard 3 Moment's Peace 3 Pithing Needle 1 Gifts Ungiven 1 Early Harvest 1 Brain Freeze 1 Hunting Pack 1 Orim's Chant 1 Mana Short 1 Mana Leak 1 Wing Shards 1 Naturalize

???

How will it get cast?

Quote from LordofDoom »

???

How will it get cast?

huh??? :confused3:

what are you talking about???