But hey...if it works in his/your metagame then more power to you.
Not really my meta, exactly, but at big extended tournies in Orlando, and PTQs and the such, so it does well against really every deck out there, except Life before the SB, and Scepter Chant all together. I'll post a list in a day or so, so you can all see.
Why the focus on post-rotation. Buy some cards, hippie! :tongue2:
Anyway, Jens seems like a good cut. I think Kokusho is better than both Visara and Monger. Rend Flesh seems like a Smother that costs 1 too much. Smother hits the vast majority of the important creatures in Extended, but does it for 1 less than Rend Flesh. I guess if you fear a lot of Affinity, Rend Flesh is better, but that's the only case I can think of right now.
Your land counts seems low. I don't think 21 is going to get it done. Birds are to vulnerable to be counted on, and even post-rotation, whatever emerges for the new RDW is going to have a lot of ways to kill an 0/1. Elder at least gets you something when it dies. I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't run Birds, but you'll need a couple more lands.
If you want another beater, don't sleep on Troll Ascetic. He survives Deed and is immune to your opponent's spot removal.
I don't know about Plunge as the new Tutor. It's not a bad card, but it's not guaranteed to find you what you need, and I don't think The Rock can stand to have a lot of cards RFGed. There's no ready replacement for Vamp Tutor that I see right now. Diabolic Intent isn't the worst, but you'd ideally like to sack a creature that does something when it leaves play, and there just aren't a lot of good ones to be had.
I'm not sure you're going to have the time to mess around with Living Wish or not, but with or without it, your sideboard needs work.
Not really my meta, exactly, but at big extended tournies in Orlando, and PTQs and the such, so it does well against really every deck out there, except Life before the SB, and Scepter Chant all together. I'll post a list in a day or so, so you can all see.
It seens to me that playing with such cards like intuition and other cards to play around it, u have to cut i dont know maybe living wish? or duress MD? or even Vampiric tutor. The thing is, i you r playing blue, i think you should run living wish for the drakes wich r really amazing. As for the first game against life, well u will always have the cranial extraction+witness+recurring thing to do.
I would aprecciate if you show us this Rock U deck list.
Alright this has been the best day for my Magic career ever! Had a deck-anti game against a guy in my area. I put up Raffinity he put up Rock. I beat his BUG DRagon w/ my FCG and got his Rock deck. I then tore it apart to make my deck pre-rotation. Here is what I currently have.
CREATURES
2 Kokusho, the Evening Star
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Birds of Paradise CONTROL/DISRUPTION
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Diabolic Edict DRAW/TUTOR
3 Living Wish
2 Vampiric Tutor
2 Recurring Nightmare ACCEL/LANDS
4 Treetop Village
2 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Llanowar Wastes
6 Forest
5 Swamp
how did you find it having 2 recurring nightmares in the deck? i'm trying to decide if i should run 1 or 2. at this stage i'm leaning towards just the one.
I have a friend that runs one and I beat his butt everytime as its just too slow. If you are going to go that route I think too would be more than enough.
I like that deck list SpiritDeed. I looks like my original Idea but somewhat different.
I don't think blue fits rock at all. Maybe red but not blue.
And I don't think Kokusho is better that Monger. I like them both as much with Kokusho being harder to hardcast than monger. But thats just me.
seeing most of the field is practically combo... im running some "tech" in my deck.. like the md coffin purge... against teen titans and any reanimator deck...
haunting echoes.. haven't seen that for awhile... but u usually disrupt them with duress and cabal therapy usually.. if u play the echoes its usually a win for u...especially against combo
and sakura-tribe elder > bop in the current metagame imo..
im thinking about running another extraction md for more disruption too =/
So Sakura>BoP in the current metagame? I hope you were being sarcartic in the comment, and even thought if you are right, that doesnt mean you shouldnt run BoPs, because if no sakura appear in your hand, at least you could play a BoP to accelerate your game. The rock is already a slow deck for the current meta, without BoPs the deck just get really slow. The biorhythm is kind of useless, since you should be able to beat life without it, with cranial extraction+witness. But if your meta is heavy on life/dot decks, use phage on sideboard to wish for.
Why do people play Recurring Nightmare over Genesis? Ever?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
You run Recurring because you can sac Kokusho to it. Sac Kokusho to put Wall of Blossums into play, draw a card, play the Recurring Nightmare again, sac the Wall to put Kokusho pack into play. You gain 5 life, draw a card and still have kokusho in play for the attack on your next turn. They lose 5 life and still have to deal with a 5/5 flyer.
If you wished for a second Kokusho then you do 10 damage and gain 10 life a turn just by playing the Recurring twice in a turn.
You should always run BoP because of the mana curve. Never bested by Sakura...sorry!!
4 Treetop Village is way too many. You have lands coming into play tapped and are kept waiting for mana.
-1 Biorythem, +1 Kokusho
Move Withered Wretch to your sideboard!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Why do people play Recurring Nightmare over Genesis? Ever?
I used to play with a genesis but he's just too slow. 3 mana to bring a creature back to your hands Vs 3 mana + a creature to put a creature into play. with creature like kokusho, wall of B and eternal witness it makes it worth while.
The philosophy is that eventhough you have the discard, the combo/control decks have more card draw than you do, so they can stabilize/win before you get around to killing them off. Because of which, your deck now has threats such as Ascetic and Negator to speed up the process. The agro matchups are still decent because the deck still runs Deed, and your creatures are generally fatter anyways. It's definitely worth giving a shot.
Phyrexian Negator is strictly an SB card unless your entire meta is dominated by Life/Reanimator/Scepter-Chant, and the like. It's also missing a biggie or two, and the Living Wishes which really define the deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Phyrexian Negator is strictly an SB card unless your entire meta is dominated by Life/Reanimator/Scepter-Chant, and the like. It's also missing a biggie or two, and the Living Wishes which really define the deck.
Seems to me that you failed to read the first 2 sentences of my post. If you did, you would have read the statement mentioning that the build that I posted is meant for a control/combo metagame. What do you mean it's missing a biggie or two?? It's got 4/4s and 5/5s that drop on turn 2-3. Living Wishes are more important in the control version of the deck. This is the agro version. Wishes (and tutors for that matter) aren't necessary.
Ah, I didn't assume it was your meta. I try not to assume. =/
Either way, the Wishes are really needed for the deck. They let you techsearch without using extra MD spaces, and that's, y'know, good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
This thing has become very fun to play and a little tighter.
Yes I will be at the PTQ in Rockville on the 20th! I can't wait! Were you there last week? What did you play?
As for Soggy-Pizza's build....your deck looks pretty solid but you will wipe out everything on your side of the board if you Deed for more than 2! The only thing that will survive is your Trolls...only if you have the mana to save them. You will take out RDW with out a problem. But I think Life will take you with speed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
4 Tainted Wood seems problematic with only 8 Swamps. Don't hate on Llanowar Wastes, after all. Also, I tested a Rock build that put Wasteland to good use in place of Treetop Village. In addition to the hand disruption that 3 Duress and 4 Therapy gave me, the mana disruption was nice, too. Taking out an Adarkar Wastes against Desire or one of many nonbasics against Aluren after making them discard some cards really set them back.
And speaking of discard, you're not really running very much of it. Considering the prevalence of combo decks, and of the control decks that have re-emerged to fight them, I think you need more discard. Seven spot removal spells is too many, IMO. I'd cut down to 3 in the main (either Edict or Smother), and use the other 4 slots on discard.
Also, I'll be judging, not playing, on the 20th, so I don't know if you need Spellbane Centaur anymore. :wink3:
I give that a run. I knew the a lot of the metegame for the last PTQ was going to be creature based...that's why I had 7 slots for removal. I used a lot of them there during those matches. The hand disruption is nice though....
The Centaur also works well with Scepter-Chant;) I do think the Ink-Eyes will help once I clear their creatures...that waits to be seen. I need to see the deck lists from this past weekend when Batrayers became legal. I think with the above advice I will move to keeping the Edicts and throw in some Duress and see what happens. I only run the Woods because I haven't got wastes to put in there. Maybe if you could let me...say...borrow at the tourny?:p
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Yes I will be at the PTQ in Rockville on the 20th! I can't wait! Were you there last week? What did you play?
all I had was a incomplete RDW deck and had to work hopefully I will be able to switch my schedule this time so I can go though that may be hard because I work at giant and that is when it is most busy. I might have met you at the darksteel pre-release though it might have been states(can't remember) does the username on MOTL Fireripper ring a bell. I'm pretty sure i meant you there!
anyway I got banned from that site for replying in the wrong topic(too much karma) and when I contacted jazerei for a appeal she said it would take a while and I have not heard from her since august(i think)
as for your deck you just posted I would make these changes
-1 wall of blossoms
-1 smother
+2 duress
though I have not played this deck before and have no idea what the meda is here in MD so you might want to keep that smother in
I like Genesis over Recurring Nightmare because you can move one to SB and Living Wish for it. Recurring Nightmare does possess some good synergy with Kokusho though. I suppose its all a matter of taste.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Revenge is a meal best served cold
"Why? Why am I not satisfied with second place? Because second place is first place loser. That's why."
I'm having real problems sorting out the sideboard for this build - I'm expecting a lot of Goblins / RDW in the later matches, with Affinity and combo earlier on - probably Reanimator / Teen Titans.
I've got to move 4 cards from the main to the sideboard, but what to move? I have no Living Wishes, before we go down that road.
Here's the deck as it stands: -
Creatures:
4 x Birds Of Paradise
4 x Wall Of Blossoms
4 x Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 x Eternal Witness
4 x Troll Ascetic
4 x Ravenous Baloth
Disruption:
4 x Cabal Therapy
3 x Duress
1 x Cranial Extraction
Removal:
4 x Diabolic Edict
4 x Pernicious Deed
Other:
2 x Vampiric Tutor
1 x Recurring Nightmare
4 x Llanowar Wastes
4 x Treetop Village
1 x Volrath's Stronghold
X Forests and X Swamps, depending on the final build - probably 8 and 5 for 22 Lands in all.
Sideboard:
3 x Coffin Purge
1 x Cranial Extraction
3 x Engineered Plague
1 x Genesis
3 x Naturalize
Any help would be greatly appreciated
why dont you splash? between the birds and elders you should be fine to add blue or white to help you against those decks.
Tendrils, for your build, I'd do -1 Recurring Nightmare, +1 Genesis +4 Kokusho. For the meta you described, I doubt graveyard removal will be that popular, since Goblins, RDW, and Affinity can't really find SB spaces for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
The main problem with The Rock is that you're playing fair. Ok, you have some discard and some removal, and hey, you can clear a few things off the board with Deed. But you're never doing anything really broken, and I think that puts the deck at a disadvantage in the current Extended metagame. Aluren can play "infinite" spells and beat you that way. Desire can play a bunch of spells, then play a bunch more for free and mill your whole deck away. Goblins can play some men for free with Aether Vial, has 8 effective tutors which also turn sideways, and can just overwhelm you with its mix of critters and card advantage. Affinity can dump its hand on turn 3, smash you with a large Ravager, then throw it at your face. All those things are unfair. The Rock can't do anything on those levels.
If you want to win, I think you need to stop playing fair.
Not really my meta, exactly, but at big extended tournies in Orlando, and PTQs and the such, so it does well against really every deck out there, except Life before the SB, and Scepter Chant all together. I'll post a list in a day or so, so you can all see.
Why the focus on post-rotation. Buy some cards, hippie! :tongue2:
Anyway, Jens seems like a good cut. I think Kokusho is better than both Visara and Monger. Rend Flesh seems like a Smother that costs 1 too much. Smother hits the vast majority of the important creatures in Extended, but does it for 1 less than Rend Flesh. I guess if you fear a lot of Affinity, Rend Flesh is better, but that's the only case I can think of right now.
Your land counts seems low. I don't think 21 is going to get it done. Birds are to vulnerable to be counted on, and even post-rotation, whatever emerges for the new RDW is going to have a lot of ways to kill an 0/1. Elder at least gets you something when it dies. I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't run Birds, but you'll need a couple more lands.
If you want another beater, don't sleep on Troll Ascetic. He survives Deed and is immune to your opponent's spot removal.
I don't know about Plunge as the new Tutor. It's not a bad card, but it's not guaranteed to find you what you need, and I don't think The Rock can stand to have a lot of cards RFGed. There's no ready replacement for Vamp Tutor that I see right now. Diabolic Intent isn't the worst, but you'd ideally like to sack a creature that does something when it leaves play, and there just aren't a lot of good ones to be had.
I'm not sure you're going to have the time to mess around with Living Wish or not, but with or without it, your sideboard needs work.
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
It seens to me that playing with such cards like intuition and other cards to play around it, u have to cut i dont know maybe living wish? or duress MD? or even Vampiric tutor. The thing is, i you r playing blue, i think you should run living wish for the drakes wich r really amazing. As for the first game against life, well u will always have the cranial extraction+witness+recurring thing to do.
I would aprecciate if you show us this Rock U deck list.
CREATURES
2 Kokusho, the Evening Star
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Birds of Paradise
CONTROL/DISRUPTION
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Diabolic Edict
DRAW/TUTOR
3 Living Wish
2 Vampiric Tutor
2 Recurring Nightmare
ACCEL/LANDS
4 Treetop Village
2 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Llanowar Wastes
6 Forest
5 Swamp
SIDEBOARD
1 Spiritmonger
2 Plaguespitter
2 Withered Wretch
3 Troll Ascetic
2 Viridian Shaman
2 Cursed Totem
3 Engineered Plague
*sig by Nan *avvy by Grimclaw
I like that deck list SpiritDeed. I looks like my original Idea but somewhat different.
I don't think blue fits rock at all. Maybe red but not blue.
And I don't think Kokusho is better that Monger. I like them both as much with Kokusho being harder to hardcast than monger. But thats just me.
Ben
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=2544
Motl Refs
Thanks to Zoob for the great Avatar:p
// Lands
6 Forest
8 Swamp
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Treetop Village
1 Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures
1 Withered Wretch
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
1 Coffin Purge
2 Living Wish
3 Vampiric Tutor
4 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Eternal Witness
SB: 1 Bone Shredder
SB: 1 Ravenous Baloth
SB: 1 Viridian Shaman
SB: 1 Genesis
SB: 1 Masticore
SB: 1 Biorhythm
SB: 2 Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Smother
seeing most of the field is practically combo... im running some "tech" in my deck.. like the md coffin purge... against teen titans and any reanimator deck...
haunting echoes.. haven't seen that for awhile... but u usually disrupt them with duress and cabal therapy usually.. if u play the echoes its usually a win for u...especially against combo
and sakura-tribe elder > bop in the current metagame imo..
im thinking about running another extraction md for more disruption too =/
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=313841#post313841
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=313841#post313841
If you wished for a second Kokusho then you do 10 damage and gain 10 life a turn just by playing the Recurring twice in a turn.
You should always run BoP because of the mana curve. Never bested by Sakura...sorry!!
4 Treetop Village is way too many. You have lands coming into play tapped and are kept waiting for mana.
-1 Biorythem, +1 Kokusho
Move Withered Wretch to your sideboard!
I used to play with a genesis but he's just too slow. 3 mana to bring a creature back to your hands Vs 3 mana + a creature to put a creature into play. with creature like kokusho, wall of B and eternal witness it makes it worth while.
8 Forest
7 Swamp
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Treetop Village
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Troll Ascetic
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
The philosophy is that eventhough you have the discard, the combo/control decks have more card draw than you do, so they can stabilize/win before you get around to killing them off. Because of which, your deck now has threats such as Ascetic and Negator to speed up the process. The agro matchups are still decent because the deck still runs Deed, and your creatures are generally fatter anyways. It's definitely worth giving a shot.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Seems to me that you failed to read the first 2 sentences of my post. If you did, you would have read the statement mentioning that the build that I posted is meant for a control/combo metagame. What do you mean it's missing a biggie or two?? It's got 4/4s and 5/5s that drop on turn 2-3. Living Wishes are more important in the control version of the deck. This is the agro version. Wishes (and tutors for that matter) aren't necessary.
Either way, the Wishes are really needed for the deck. They let you techsearch without using extra MD spaces, and that's, y'know, good.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
WOW! you going to the one on march 20th? I probaly will but will either be playing RDW or Desire. cough... but back to the topic at hand.
why run colussus? by the time you have enough mana to get him out 1 of 3 things will have already happended
1. you lost the match
2. you won the match
3. ran out of time
just maindeck kokusho or add another witness OR better yet run recurring nightmares along with 1 or 2 kokusho's.
H/W List ABOVE
Creatures:
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Ravenous Baloth
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
4x Wall of Blossoms
3x Eternal Witness
2x Troll Ascetic
Spells:
3x Smother
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Vampiric Tutor
2x Living Wish
1x Recurring Nightmare
Lands:
4x Tainted Wood
8x Forest
8x Swamp
Sideboard:
2x Dread of Night
1x Spellbane Centaur
3x Engineered Plague
1x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1x Spiritmonger
1x Molder Slug
1x Withered Wretch
2x Cursed Totem (Tech against Life!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
I can usually get the Recurring Nightmare-Wall of Blossums-Kokusho, the Evening Star combo going by turn 5 or 6! This is what I changed from my previous PTQ build:
Moved 1x Kokusho, the Evening Star to the sideboard
Took the Smother out of the sidebaord
Added Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni to the Sideboard
Took out 1x Dread of Night from the sideboard
Replaced Living Death with Recurring Nightmare.
This thing has become very fun to play and a little tighter.
Yes I will be at the PTQ in Rockville on the 20th! I can't wait! Were you there last week? What did you play?
As for Soggy-Pizza's build....your deck looks pretty solid but you will wipe out everything on your side of the board if you Deed for more than 2! The only thing that will survive is your Trolls...only if you have the mana to save them. You will take out RDW with out a problem. But I think Life will take you with speed.
And speaking of discard, you're not really running very much of it. Considering the prevalence of combo decks, and of the control decks that have re-emerged to fight them, I think you need more discard. Seven spot removal spells is too many, IMO. I'd cut down to 3 in the main (either Edict or Smother), and use the other 4 slots on discard.
Also, I'll be judging, not playing, on the 20th, so I don't know if you need Spellbane Centaur anymore. :wink3:
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
The Centaur also works well with Scepter-Chant;) I do think the Ink-Eyes will help once I clear their creatures...that waits to be seen. I need to see the deck lists from this past weekend when Batrayers became legal. I think with the above advice I will move to keeping the Edicts and throw in some Duress and see what happens. I only run the Woods because I haven't got wastes to put in there. Maybe if you could let me...say...borrow at the tourny?:p
all I had was a incomplete RDW deck and had to work hopefully I will be able to switch my schedule this time so I can go though that may be hard because I work at giant and that is when it is most busy. I might have met you at the darksteel pre-release though it might have been states(can't remember) does the username on MOTL Fireripper ring a bell. I'm pretty sure i meant you there!
anyway I got banned from that site for replying in the wrong topic(too much karma) and when I contacted jazerei for a appeal she said it would take a while and I have not heard from her since august(i think)
as for your deck you just posted I would make these changes
-1 wall of blossoms
-1 smother
+2 duress
though I have not played this deck before and have no idea what the meda is here in MD so you might want to keep that smother in
H/W List ABOVE
"Why? Why am I not satisfied with second place? Because second place is first place loser. That's why."
"I am the best" -Muhammad Ali
why dont you splash? between the birds and elders you should be fine to add blue or white to help you against those decks.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
If you want to win, I think you need to stop playing fair.
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.