Can Nakamura's Build from PT:Columbus be improved upon? What cards should be dropped/added to cope with control-heavy/aggro-heavy metas? Should the deck play 8 2-power one-drops in Jackal Pup and Goblin Cadets?
My build runs similar to the above, except that in my meta where Affinity is still heavily played I have replaced the sideboarded Dragons and Gamble (which I do understand being in the board) with Pulverizes, and the maindeck Pillages with Tangle Wires.
In a control-heavy meta, I would suggest adding either Slith Firewalker or Goblin Cadets to take advantage of the low ambient creature-count. I have never particularly liked Pillage in this deck, as it already has heavy control elements and I feel that Lava Darts might be better, killing Lavamancers, Disciples, and such.
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{Ivory Tower}
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
Er, I'd like to disagree. I think 4 MD Pillage is great. Red Deck Wins is about basically three things.
1) Burn (duh)
2) efficient creatures.
3) Disruption
The deck packs enough disruption I say, four copies of all:
wasteland
rishadan port
Pillage
I like it, what are you going to do while your lands get tapped and/or destroyed while creatures and spells are smacking your face eh?
I basically like the build you posted (for P.T.) but I love Slith Firewalker, but sadly, it is true what you said. Its good, but much better to use in a more control-heavy meta.
Only thing about build I would change is probably Sideboard, for artifact hate (rack and ruin, shatterstorm, pulverize, meltdown, crash, etc.)
since we are running fetchlands already what about a single forest and 4 naturilize?
this kills chill, and scepter! i havent tested yet, just a thought.
sorry dont know card tags- yet!
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thank u magicdeckvortex for the avatar
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
I don't know how much you've tested this deck but in the current enviroment tangle wire is just to slow. It's slot is better put to use either running more disruption or burn.
Green in the board is probably the best answer we have to chill.
I personally have found that hammer is better than jet.
I like Jet more than Hammer for reasons you can read very well explained over on Star City. And yes, Tangle Wire can be slow, but RDW is already so fast and has so many answers to most decks that it can afford to bump up the curve a little. Chill isn't as bad as most people seem to think it is, as the decks that run it are Madness, Scepter, Desire, and two out of those 3 are great matchups. Cursed Scroll and Firecat don't care and Lavamancer, Pup, and Fanatic already are on the board or else cost 3, which isn't that harsh. Chill is much harder on Gobbo than on RDW.
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{Ivory Tower}
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
A teammate of mine suggested Culling Scales to get rid of Chill. It keeps you from having to SB the forest and naturalize. We haven't tested it yet, but we have tested the Naturalize and Forest plan. There is nothing worse than staring down a turn 2 chill with naturalize and no Foothills or Forest.
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Me : "This Exibit looks delicious."
~in reference to the chickens in the children's petting zoo.
yno culling scales is too slow and hits too many of our permants to be effective. i would rather stare at chill or naturalize in hand than use scales. im curios what matchups do fledgling dragons and ftk come in against. it seems like we are faster than control, out aggro aggro, and disrupt combo too much to swing for the win. shouldnt the deck be tuned enough for this already? and i have friends who swear that shrapnal blast belongs in the deck. it seems good so what does testing show?
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thank u magicdeckvortex for the avatar
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
Fledgling Dragon often comes in in the mirror, and FTK comes in against most creature based decks, like Madness, (sometimes the Mirror), or Affinity. If you're in a combo-lite, control-lite, aggro-heavy meta the FTKs can be maindecked.
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{Ivory Tower}
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
I suppose it isn't possible to make space for two Karplusan Forests maindeck, in place for, say, a mountain and a mire? That way you can provide a slightly more stable manabase for your sideboard Naturalizes... I haven't played the deck, I don't really like red, so it's just a suggestion...
My mainboard is the generic one with Tangle Wire instead of Pillage. I've found that even in the mirror, TW can be very devasting. Combined with Rishadan Port and Wasteland, it can effectively shut your opponent down, plus it flies under Chill. Culling Scales is horrible, it just hurts you way too much, and Naturalize makes the deck too inconsistant. RDW has no answer to Chill, but it really doesn't need one.
Sun Droplet is great in the mirror, and can afford you those value few turns the mirror often comes down to. The rest of the board is pretty standard I guess, though I really wanted to make room for Pyrostatic Pillar, but oh well, I doubt I'll see any Aluren anyway. As it is, my SB strategy pans out like this:
Isnt bridge bad vs raffinty? they just combo out. and sun droplet is only good vs the mirror it seems bad in any other matchup. shouldnt the red enchantment taht doesnt let
people gain life and deals them two dammage( sorry i cant remember the name) be in the sideboard cause life is such a horrible matchup?
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thank u magicdeckvortex for the avatar
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
Sulfuric Vortex is just way to slow. Ensnaring Bride is actually quite effective against Affinity, as you should always be able to empty your hand against it, then control the board o the point where they can't combo out.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Whereas goblins can reliably get a Vortex out on turn two, be it through Chrome Mox or Skirk Prospector, RDW can't. A pity really, cause you will often lose to Life. I think Crumbling Sanctuary is more useful here, as you should typically be able to deal a lot of damage to your opponent (unless Life starts to play Ivory Mask).
i think im going to biuld and test before i post here any more because it seems that your burn would threaten them enough that they couldnt play there creatures and ports lockdown the land they need
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thank u magicdeckvortex for the avatar
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
i think im going to biuld and test before i post here any more because it seems that your burn would threaten them enough that they couldnt play there creatures and ports lockdown the land they need
Problem is, your burn only kills one of the three components of their combo. The Daru Spiritualist and the Task Force just get bigger when you try to burn them, so those will be a tough nut to crack, and you can't do anything about the life gaining cards themselves. Once those two are set to go, they only need an En Kor to go off... Maybe Flamebreak can help, as it will kill any of their creatures... that is, as long as the combo is not on the table.
I've just written life off as the "bad matchup". I usually try to side out 2x Cursed Scroll for 2x Pyrostatic Pillar. The scroll is too slow, and you need to hurt them at every opportunity. Making all their combo pieces and tutors do damage seems to help. If you use vortex, they just wait until they are ready to win, tutor for a seal of cleansing, and go off.
You need to just throw burn at them like there is no tomorrow. Other than that, do your best to deny white mana using ports and wastelands.
Hammer vs Jet has been a tough one for me. Yes, Hammer deals 3 damage making more effective in pretty much every matchup, but it's at sorcery speed. Magma Jet is only 2 damage, but at instant seep with Scry, to dig for more relevant cards. Altough, I've seen decks that cut Firebolts and run both Hammer AND Jet, so who knows.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Lava Dart
4 Magma Jet
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
No sideboard, as I feel those are largely dependent upon your local area and specific metagame. Anyhow, to explain a few of the choices:
Blistering Firecat: Is a staple in the deck. It reliable swings for 2, and can also account for huge swings in life once it is flipped. It can be played face up as a finisher if your opponent is low on life and tapped out.
Grim Lavamancer: Takes advantage of the cards the populate your graveyard, and converts each into a point of damage. Very good to establish early control and very good at late game work.
Jackal Pup: Most reliable 1 drop for Red. Swings reliably for 2 damage each turn, and it's drawback is not that dramatic.
Mogg Fanatic: Second most reliable 1 drop for Red. Swings for 1 each time, trades with X/2 creatures, and can eliminate any X/1 creature (good for mirror). Deals damage to the dome as well.
Cursed Scroll: Takes advantage of your low hand size, and deals reliable colorless damage over the course of the game.
Lava Dart: A card that deals 2 damage in the long run, at instant speed. Can be used to eliminate a 1 toughness creature, and then later flashbacked. Don't underestimate its usefulness.
Magma Jet: Very useful at shipping cards from the top of your deck to the bottom, or reordering them. Scry has proven a very useful mechanic, to me, when dealing with decks such as ScepterChant.
Seal of Fire: An investment of 2 damage that can be used nearly any time during the game, for any reason. Very valuable.
Volcanic Hammer: A strong card against a variety of decks with creatures of 3 toughness or greater. While it may be a Sorcery, the 3 damage is too good to pass up. This works well in matches against U/G, as well as others.
Mana base: Standard compliment of lands... I don't think it needs explaining.
Anyhow, I actually like running the full compliment of 12 burn spells over decks that feature Pillage or Goblin Cadets. It may seem weird, but being able to select a variety of burn to throw at stuff is actually preferable to a lot of creatures. Plus, that 12 burn ends up being about 28 damage on its own... all playable for {1}{R} or less.
Anyhow, depending on your area, your Sideboard can feature stuff like:
Ensnaring Bridge: Good against U/G Madness and Reanimator decks. Anything that gets something big into play can be shut down with this. Hide behind a Bridge and used Cursed Scroll and your burn spells.
Fledgling Dragon: Important in the mirror and against The Rock. A 5/5 flier for {4} is strong for the deck, especially when you can pump it to get through even more damage.
Rhystic Lightning: Works well against U/G Madness, and can be brought in against ScepterChant. Augments or replaces the Volcanic Hammers, as it is 4 damage for {3} when played right.
Pulverize: Very reliable against Affinity (moreso than Meltdown or Pillage), since it just wipes out their board without regard to CMC. I also used it recently against ScepterChant, when the player tapped out for a Scepter imprinted with Chant. My Scroll came down and that was it.
Tangle Wire: Can work against Combo decks, but also can be used against Life or The Rock. I've not been too fond of it, and have not found it that reliable.
Sulfuric Vortex: Good against Life... and that's really it. If you have a large number of Life decks in the area, then it's an automatic inclusion. Otherwise, I'd gamble (and probably lose) on not facing the one or two that may be in the area.
If your going to board a card specificly for life, you board cursed totem, as it comes down turn 2, and completely disrupts them. While this can hurt your own creatures, it slows life down enough for you to run them over. Thier only option is to wish for an answer, and that buys you at least two turns.
Actually, Cursed Totem may be good in The Rock match up as well. Because it effectively shuts down their Birds, Sakura Tribe Elders and Yavimaya Elder. Not to mention, Spiritmonger is a bit easier to kill (since it can't regenerate). Interesting suggestion; thanks for that idea.
how does ftk help against the rock? i dont see spending four mana to kill a bop as a good deal. also wall of blossoms just blocks ftk all day long and nothing bad happens to it. i agee that lava dart is good against the rock, but please explain the ftk to me.
how does ftk help against the rock? i dont see spending four mana to kill a bop as a good deal. also wall of blossoms just blocks ftk all day long and nothing bad happens to it. i agee that lava dart is good against the rock, but please explain the ftk to me.
How exactly does Wall of Blossoms (0/4) block Flametounge Kavu (4/2) all day long? It blocks it exactly once, and then it dies which I would assume is a "bad thing happening to it", or when it comes into play it kills Wall of Blossoms , or BoP, or Ravenous BalothEternal Witness all of which are just crunchy snacks for the Flametounge Kavu.
Totem unfortuantely may be a little fragile, being 2 mana, so therefore open to Overload/Oxidize/ any anti-affin stuff which will be played a lot. Depending on life's build they may also run maindeck Seal of Cleansing, which along with Enlightened Tutors/Rectors/Sterling Grove is not going to make an easy ride.
At least in my area, people still aren't really packing a lot of cards that deal specifically with Affinity; for whatever reason, people just aren't using cards like Oxidize or Viridian Shaman in their decks. At least not from what I've seen. Plus, very few decks bring in a lot of anti-artifact cards (like Disenchant or Naturalize) against RDW. Some bring them in to make sure they don't have to deal with a Cursed Scroll... but even rarely that.
The other thing that Cursed Totem is good for is dealing with U/G Madness. The Totem really does slow down the Mongrel, and prevents the Rootwalla and Aquamoeba from pumping. Between that and Ensnaring Bridge (for dealing with Wurms), I think it also greatly improves that match-up.
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Nakamura's Build
Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
Creatures
4 Jackal Pup
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Blistering Firecat
Spells
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Seal of Fire
4 Firebolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Pillage
Sideboard
4 Blood Oath
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Fledgling Dragon
3 Flametongue Kavu
1 Gamble
My build runs similar to the above, except that in my meta where Affinity is still heavily played I have replaced the sideboarded Dragons and Gamble (which I do understand being in the board) with Pulverizes, and the maindeck Pillages with Tangle Wires.
In a control-heavy meta, I would suggest adding either Slith Firewalker or Goblin Cadets to take advantage of the low ambient creature-count. I have never particularly liked Pillage in this deck, as it already has heavy control elements and I feel that Lava Darts might be better, killing Lavamancers, Disciples, and such.
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
1) Burn (duh)
2) efficient creatures.
3) Disruption
The deck packs enough disruption I say, four copies of all:
wasteland
rishadan port
Pillage
I like it, what are you going to do while your lands get tapped and/or destroyed while creatures and spells are smacking your face eh?
I basically like the build you posted (for P.T.) but I love Slith Firewalker, but sadly, it is true what you said. Its good, but much better to use in a more control-heavy meta.
Only thing about build I would change is probably Sideboard, for artifact hate (rack and ruin, shatterstorm, pulverize, meltdown, crash, etc.)
truly,
- ixi v2
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
this kills chill, and scepter! i havent tested yet, just a thought.
sorry dont know card tags- yet!
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
Green in the board is probably the best answer we have to chill.
I personally have found that hammer is better than jet.
My .02
Free Cards!!!
I' так смущенный m
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
Me : "This Exibit looks delicious."
~in reference to the chickens in the children's petting zoo.
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
My sideboard, as also slightly different:
3x Fledgling Dragon
3x Flametongue Kavu
3x Pulverize
2x Sun Droplet
Sun Droplet is great in the mirror, and can afford you those value few turns the mirror often comes down to. The rest of the board is pretty standard I guess, though I really wanted to make room for Pyrostatic Pillar, but oh well, I doubt I'll see any Aluren anyway. As it is, my SB strategy pans out like this:
Versus RDW:
Minus:
4x Mogg Fanatic
1x Grim Lavamancer
3x Flametongue Kavu
2x Sun Droplet
Versus UG Madness:
Minus:
4x Mogg Fanatic
3x Flametongue Kavu
1x Fledgling Dragon
Versus Reanimator:
Minus:
Versus Raffinity:
Minus:
4x Tangle Wire
2x Mogg Fanatic
3x Flametongue Kavu
3x Pulverize
Naturally, and help is welcome.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
people gain life and deals them two dammage( sorry i cant remember the name) be in the sideboard cause life is such a horrible matchup?
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
Problem is, your burn only kills one of the three components of their combo. The Daru Spiritualist and the Task Force just get bigger when you try to burn them, so those will be a tough nut to crack, and you can't do anything about the life gaining cards themselves. Once those two are set to go, they only need an En Kor to go off... Maybe Flamebreak can help, as it will kill any of their creatures... that is, as long as the combo is not on the table.
You need to just throw burn at them like there is no tomorrow. Other than that, do your best to deny white mana using ports and wastelands.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
has trouble vs life is there anything we can do to improve our matchup?
Main Deck
4 Blistering Firecat
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Jackal Pup
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Lava Dart
4 Magma Jet
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
No sideboard, as I feel those are largely dependent upon your local area and specific metagame. Anyhow, to explain a few of the choices:
Blistering Firecat: Is a staple in the deck. It reliable swings for 2, and can also account for huge swings in life once it is flipped. It can be played face up as a finisher if your opponent is low on life and tapped out.
Grim Lavamancer: Takes advantage of the cards the populate your graveyard, and converts each into a point of damage. Very good to establish early control and very good at late game work.
Jackal Pup: Most reliable 1 drop for Red. Swings reliably for 2 damage each turn, and it's drawback is not that dramatic.
Mogg Fanatic: Second most reliable 1 drop for Red. Swings for 1 each time, trades with X/2 creatures, and can eliminate any X/1 creature (good for mirror). Deals damage to the dome as well.
Cursed Scroll: Takes advantage of your low hand size, and deals reliable colorless damage over the course of the game.
Lava Dart: A card that deals 2 damage in the long run, at instant speed. Can be used to eliminate a 1 toughness creature, and then later flashbacked. Don't underestimate its usefulness.
Magma Jet: Very useful at shipping cards from the top of your deck to the bottom, or reordering them. Scry has proven a very useful mechanic, to me, when dealing with decks such as ScepterChant.
Seal of Fire: An investment of 2 damage that can be used nearly any time during the game, for any reason. Very valuable.
Volcanic Hammer: A strong card against a variety of decks with creatures of 3 toughness or greater. While it may be a Sorcery, the 3 damage is too good to pass up. This works well in matches against U/G, as well as others.
Mana base: Standard compliment of lands... I don't think it needs explaining.
Anyhow, I actually like running the full compliment of 12 burn spells over decks that feature Pillage or Goblin Cadets. It may seem weird, but being able to select a variety of burn to throw at stuff is actually preferable to a lot of creatures. Plus, that 12 burn ends up being about 28 damage on its own... all playable for {1}{R} or less.
Anyhow, depending on your area, your Sideboard can feature stuff like:
Ensnaring Bridge: Good against U/G Madness and Reanimator decks. Anything that gets something big into play can be shut down with this. Hide behind a Bridge and used Cursed Scroll and your burn spells.
Fledgling Dragon: Important in the mirror and against The Rock. A 5/5 flier for {4} is strong for the deck, especially when you can pump it to get through even more damage.
Rhystic Lightning: Works well against U/G Madness, and can be brought in against ScepterChant. Augments or replaces the Volcanic Hammers, as it is 4 damage for {3} when played right.
Pulverize: Very reliable against Affinity (moreso than Meltdown or Pillage), since it just wipes out their board without regard to CMC. I also used it recently against ScepterChant, when the player tapped out for a Scepter imprinted with Chant. My Scroll came down and that was it.
Tangle Wire: Can work against Combo decks, but also can be used against Life or The Rock. I've not been too fond of it, and have not found it that reliable.
Sulfuric Vortex: Good against Life... and that's really it. If you have a large number of Life decks in the area, then it's an automatic inclusion. Otherwise, I'd gamble (and probably lose) on not facing the one or two that may be in the area.
Anyhow, those are my thoughts on the deck.
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How exactly does Wall of Blossoms (0/4) block Flametounge Kavu (4/2) all day long? It blocks it exactly once, and then it dies which I would assume is a "bad thing happening to it", or when it comes into play it kills Wall of Blossoms , or BoP, or Ravenous Baloth Eternal Witness all of which are just crunchy snacks for the Flametounge Kavu.
At least in my area, people still aren't really packing a lot of cards that deal specifically with Affinity; for whatever reason, people just aren't using cards like Oxidize or Viridian Shaman in their decks. At least not from what I've seen. Plus, very few decks bring in a lot of anti-artifact cards (like Disenchant or Naturalize) against RDW. Some bring them in to make sure they don't have to deal with a Cursed Scroll... but even rarely that.
The other thing that Cursed Totem is good for is dealing with U/G Madness. The Totem really does slow down the Mongrel, and prevents the Rootwalla and Aquamoeba from pumping. Between that and Ensnaring Bridge (for dealing with Wurms), I think it also greatly improves that match-up.