4 Street Wraith
4 Architects of Will
4 Glassdust Hulk
4 Monstrous Carabid
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Wirewood Guardian
4 Vendilion Clique
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
The mana base is a bit of a lash-up... basically, the focus on green is so you can search out a forest and go off under Blood Moon, but there's likely a more elegant way to do it.
Very simple build, really. Cycle creatures for 0-2 mana until turn three, then Cascade into Living End. If playing vs. counters, EOT out Vendilion Cliques and look for an opening.
Sideboard is still in flux:
Astral Slide seems a cheeky option. Maybe even Lightning Rift...
Bringing in Artifact/Enchantment kill (Angel of Despair?) vs. the Hypergenesis based semi-mirror seems like a plan too; Violent Outburst + Living End generally trumps Hypergenesis unless they have Wound Reflection + Magister Sphinx or Decree of Silence... (okay, there's a billion ways they can try to finish you... but being able to pop their permanents AND sweep their board should generally trump them) (Actually, the Spike Feeder trumps that too, now that I think about it...)
It's slower than the Hypergenesis builds, but, well, it trumps them a lot of the time, and you don't end up with many dead cards in hand (since they, well, cycle)
Oh, and there's 5 MD slots left open. Currently filling them with
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Spike Feeder
As sort of 'hedge my bets' option.
4 Street Wraith
4 Architects of Will
4 Glassdust Hulk
4 Monstrous Carabid
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Wirewood Guardian
4 Vendilion Clique
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
The mana base is a bit of a lash-up... basically, the focus on green is so you can search out a forest and go off under Blood Moon, but there's likely a more elegant way to do it.
Very simple build, really. Cycle creatures for 0-2 mana until turn three, then Cascade into Living End. If playing vs. counters, EOT out Vendilion Cliques and look for an opening.
Sideboard is still in flux:
Astral Slide seems a cheeky option. Maybe even Lightning Rift...
Bringing in Artifact/Enchantment kill (Angel of Despair?) vs. the Hypergenesis based semi-mirror seems like a plan too; Violent Outburst + Living End generally trumps Hypergenesis unless they have Wound Reflection + Magister Sphinx or Decree of Silence... (okay, there's a billion ways they can try to finish you... but being able to pop their permanents AND sweep their board should generally trump them) (Actually, the Spike Feeder trumps that too, now that I think about it...)
It's slower than the Hypergenesis builds, but, well, it trumps them a lot of the time, and you don't end up with many dead cards in hand (since they, well, cycle)
Oh, and there's 5 MD slots left open. Currently filling them with
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Spike Feeder
As sort of 'hedge my bets' option.
Are you serious? Hey I'm the first one that suggested Violent End. I just can't believe you think this would beat the HyperGenesis version, or well Trump it as you say.
I personally think this deck has some potential and can possible beat other matchups but not with this current build. There are better ways to put guys in the grave then cycling. Not that cycling is a bad way to do it but the guys that can be cycled are ineffective.
Dude. Hypergenesis decks vary wildly, but usually you get something like:
20+ points of haste damage (including Bogardan Hellkite based damage)
assorted Shroud/Indestructible creatures
'a lock' board position
Or some kind of sub-combo.
The problem with sub-combo/lock options is that the Hypergenesis builds have no real way to search for the sub-combo/lock components, so you get mixed assortments... and they rely on creatures to kill anyway.
Violent Outburst -> Living End just kills all those nasty creatures... and the non-creature builds suffer from the fact that the combo is now 'Cascade Card + each individual part of the combo'.
This deck doesn't do broken Timmy plays, it just goes 'wrath + 10 power or more worth of guys' at instant speed, and does so more consistently than Hypergenesis can draw the specific combinations that stop that (Magister Sphinx+Wound Reflection+cascade card, or specifically hitting Decree of Silence + enough threats to win before this deck plays three spells into it).
The Hypergenesis decks are currently too focused on overkill. Instead, I chose more redundancy and reliability. This deck clears their board of nuisance creatures EVERY game rather than letting the opponent play them out for free!
Dude. Hypergenesis decks vary wildly, but usually you get something like:
20+ points of haste damage (including Bogardan Hellkite based damage)
assorted Shroud/Indestructible creatures
'a lock' board position
Or some kind of sub-combo.
The problem with sub-combo/lock options is that the Hypergenesis builds have no real way to search for the sub-combo/lock components, so you get mixed assortments... and they rely on creatures to kill anyway.
Violent Outburst -> Living End just kills all those nasty creatures... and the non-creature builds suffer from the fact that the combo is now 'Cascade Card + each individual part of the combo'.
This deck doesn't do broken Timmy plays, it just goes 'wrath + 10 power or more worth of guys' at instant speed, and does so more consistently than Hypergenesis can draw the specific combinations that stop that (Magister Sphinx+Wound Reflection+cascade card, or specifically hitting Decree of Silence + enough threats to win before this deck plays three spells into it).
The Hypergenesis decks are currently too focused on overkill. Instead, I chose more redundancy and reliability. This deck clears their board of nuisance creatures EVERY game rather than letting the opponent play them out for free!
I understand what your saying exactly. Don't worry about that. What I'm saying is your only chance against AIG is Violent Outburst. And having the mana to use it. While your going to have the mana most likely how are you going to win after AIG go off? Cycle, cycle, cycle and try to play out guys before they play another win con? Because you can't go back to playing another Living Death or your going to put all the AIG guys back into play. If there first appearance doesn't kill you then I'm fairly sure the second time will, so that is not an option. Your only hope is to get down all the land you need and play out 1-2 guys before another win con is drawn with the mana to play it.
Then their is the chance that they draw another cascader and a fatty. You can't race that and your guys can't keep up with their guys.
What about if you don't have Outburst? You can't stop them from going off. You'll talk about how you can cycle until you have it. Not really because AIG is designed to go off on turn 1,2, or 3 at the latest. Trust me i would like to see a deck that trumps it, but that would be something like 4 remand 4 mana leak, 4 powersink etc.
I agree with you there. But not if you have to Living Death twice...
EDIT: And what about game 2 and 3? By this point they know your plan. So only a total noob would play out everything on the first cascade. If I were to play AIG and you did that game 1 then on game 2 I would play out 1-2 guys and then stop. After that I would let you do your thing then cascade again with whats left in my hand. Ya know?
At this point their hand actually to be quite good.
As for 'have to hit Violent Outburst' - it's showing up in a lot of my hands, and if they don't have a 'kill this turn' hand then it becomes even easier.
Oh, and of course, it's more vulnerable to SBing than dredge decks... since it gives you the mana to play your answers.
At this point their hand actually to be quite good.
As for 'have to hit Violent Outburst' - it's showing up in a lot of my hands, and if they don't have a 'kill this turn' hand then it becomes even easier.
I'm not arguing that. What I am saying is you can't stop there guys. If they lay down 1 Akroma then you HAVE to Living End. They can lay down one of the 10/10 Legend and you HAVE to Living End. Then they can go off. I just don't see this winning. AIG doesn't have to play everything in the hand to win. But no matter what it is you will have to Living End. Unless you get 2-3 spider hand.
Dont get me wrong though. I'm not against this deck. I actually really like it. However it can't keep up with that deck. Also like I said in the other similar post, what is your plan against control or other combo?
Lets put it this way. Game 2: They go off on turn 3 with Akrmoa, swing for 6. Do you play Living death at this point? Maybe but probably not. Next turn they swing for 6 more. Now you probably go off and put 1-3 of your guys into play. swing for about 10. Then AIG cascades again into something like double Borgadian Hellkite, 10/10 Legend guy with something else, or something simular. What is your plan at this point? Living End again? Putting back the Akroma and wiping your board? You could cycle a guy into the grave at some point here but unless you have about 3 more in the grave then it's not looking good for you. I hope you get it now.
You could say well they may not have Akroma. And your right it may be a Hellkite Overlord or something really nasty
off the top of my head, i'd recommend a main board oaful snoat or two. if your opponent has better creatures in the yard than you do, you're in trouble, and oaful snout is just another dude who gets reanimated
I built this deck, its actualy interesting because you are a combo deck that can cast your combo peices. Basicaly you use cycleing to make your deck not suck and you get better dudes than they do, but you never instant win like the other decks do your just more stable.
The deck is actualy solid because if they dont go all in and are aggro your creatures> thiers if they go all in and get blow out by the combo you win.
Vs fae you have 4 MD instant speed uncounterable wraths and tons of random CA.
The combo matchup will be difficult as I dont know how you can win it without boarding your combo out.
The deck doesnt suck but it isnt great yet you actualy have matchups which is odd for a randomly made scrub deck, sadly you dont beat dragon storm like ever.
I've been puttering away on this deck for a while; the only real differences are that I'm using: Shriekmaw and Soul Spike for bad removal; Simian Spirit Guide for some acceleration; and Wipe Away for random MD chalice or what have you. I also play with Demonic Dread in place of ardent plea (for more black to dump with Soul Spike.) Forbidden Orchard also works pretty well as a mana source in this deck because all the tokens you make for your opponent end up getting killed by Living End. The tokens also give you a target for Demonic Dread if you happen to be playing it.
Would Faerie Macabre be useful in this deck against whatever good stuff is in their graveyard?
Maybe Withered Wretch is better for the deck then Faerie Macabre. Faerie is faster but Wretch could hit more guys. Making sure it's always a one sided End.
Maybe Withered Wretch is better for the deck then Faerie Macabre. Faerie is faster but Wretch could hit more guys. Making sure it's always a one sided End.
hm one iscosting mana to remove stuf, the other isn't.
One is easy put into the graveyard, the other isn't.
one has flying the ther hasn't.
One is costing less then 3 mana and can be played with cascade, the other can't. So which one will be better?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My new houserules:
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
I've had trouble with cascade decks... people hate losing to them. I played Restore Balance for a while on MTGO, and one game I played against dragonstorm. He got off his combo... 3 bogardan hellkites and a Hunted Dragon. I was alive with five life on my turn. I attacked with the tokens from hunted dragon. He blocked and killed them. I cast ardent plea into restore balance. He let out such a stream of obscenities, I couldn't make out what he was trying to say because 90% of it was censored. He then left. I think I got more wins from people leaving after I cascaded into that spell than I have by actually bringing my opponent's life total to or below zero.
Is that a problem for this deck as well? People seem to qq-leave when you do such an 'unfair' and 'unfun' strategy.
Standard: pft, i love to see my cards depreciate in value once they rotate :S
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
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4 Violent Outburst
3 Living End
4 Street Wraith
4 Architects of Will
4 Glassdust Hulk
4 Monstrous Carabid
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Wirewood Guardian
4 Vendilion Clique
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
The mana base is a bit of a lash-up... basically, the focus on green is so you can search out a forest and go off under Blood Moon, but there's likely a more elegant way to do it.
Very simple build, really. Cycle creatures for 0-2 mana until turn three, then Cascade into Living End. If playing vs. counters, EOT out Vendilion Cliques and look for an opening.
Sideboard is still in flux:
Astral Slide seems a cheeky option. Maybe even Lightning Rift...
Bringing in Artifact/Enchantment kill (Angel of Despair?) vs. the Hypergenesis based semi-mirror seems like a plan too; Violent Outburst + Living End generally trumps Hypergenesis unless they have Wound Reflection + Magister Sphinx or Decree of Silence... (okay, there's a billion ways they can try to finish you... but being able to pop their permanents AND sweep their board should generally trump them) (Actually, the Spike Feeder trumps that too, now that I think about it...)
It's slower than the Hypergenesis builds, but, well, it trumps them a lot of the time, and you don't end up with many dead cards in hand (since they, well, cycle)
Oh, and there's 5 MD slots left open. Currently filling them with
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Spike Feeder
As sort of 'hedge my bets' option.
Are you serious? Hey I'm the first one that suggested Violent End. I just can't believe you think this would beat the HyperGenesis version, or well Trump it as you say.
I personally think this deck has some potential and can possible beat other matchups but not with this current build. There are better ways to put guys in the grave then cycling. Not that cycling is a bad way to do it but the guys that can be cycled are ineffective.
20+ points of haste damage (including Bogardan Hellkite based damage)
assorted Shroud/Indestructible creatures
'a lock' board position
Or some kind of sub-combo.
The problem with sub-combo/lock options is that the Hypergenesis builds have no real way to search for the sub-combo/lock components, so you get mixed assortments... and they rely on creatures to kill anyway.
Violent Outburst -> Living End just kills all those nasty creatures... and the non-creature builds suffer from the fact that the combo is now 'Cascade Card + each individual part of the combo'.
This deck doesn't do broken Timmy plays, it just goes 'wrath + 10 power or more worth of guys' at instant speed, and does so more consistently than Hypergenesis can draw the specific combinations that stop that (Magister Sphinx+Wound Reflection+cascade card, or specifically hitting Decree of Silence + enough threats to win before this deck plays three spells into it).
The Hypergenesis decks are currently too focused on overkill. Instead, I chose more redundancy and reliability. This deck clears their board of nuisance creatures EVERY game rather than letting the opponent play them out for free!
Living Death is a *better* effect than Eureka.
I understand what your saying exactly. Don't worry about that. What I'm saying is your only chance against AIG is Violent Outburst. And having the mana to use it. While your going to have the mana most likely how are you going to win after AIG go off? Cycle, cycle, cycle and try to play out guys before they play another win con? Because you can't go back to playing another Living Death or your going to put all the AIG guys back into play. If there first appearance doesn't kill you then I'm fairly sure the second time will, so that is not an option. Your only hope is to get down all the land you need and play out 1-2 guys before another win con is drawn with the mana to play it.
Then their is the chance that they draw another cascader and a fatty. You can't race that and your guys can't keep up with their guys.
What about if you don't have Outburst? You can't stop them from going off. You'll talk about how you can cycle until you have it. Not really because AIG is designed to go off on turn 1,2, or 3 at the latest. Trust me i would like to see a deck that trumps it, but that would be something like 4 remand 4 mana leak, 4 powersink etc.
I agree with you there. But not if you have to Living Death twice...
EDIT: And what about game 2 and 3? By this point they know your plan. So only a total noob would play out everything on the first cascade. If I were to play AIG and you did that game 1 then on game 2 I would play out 1-2 guys and then stop. After that I would let you do your thing then cascade again with whats left in my hand. Ya know?
As for 'have to hit Violent Outburst' - it's showing up in a lot of my hands, and if they don't have a 'kill this turn' hand then it becomes even easier.
Oh, and of course, it's more vulnerable to SBing than dredge decks... since it gives you the mana to play your answers.
I'm not arguing that. What I am saying is you can't stop there guys. If they lay down 1 Akroma then you HAVE to Living End. They can lay down one of the 10/10 Legend and you HAVE to Living End. Then they can go off. I just don't see this winning. AIG doesn't have to play everything in the hand to win. But no matter what it is you will have to Living End. Unless you get 2-3 spider hand.
Dont get me wrong though. I'm not against this deck. I actually really like it. However it can't keep up with that deck. Also like I said in the other similar post, what is your plan against control or other combo?
Lets put it this way. Game 2: They go off on turn 3 with Akrmoa, swing for 6. Do you play Living death at this point? Maybe but probably not. Next turn they swing for 6 more. Now you probably go off and put 1-3 of your guys into play. swing for about 10. Then AIG cascades again into something like double Borgadian Hellkite, 10/10 Legend guy with something else, or something simular. What is your plan at this point? Living End again? Putting back the Akroma and wiping your board? You could cycle a guy into the grave at some point here but unless you have about 3 more in the grave then it's not looking good for you. I hope you get it now.
You could say well they may not have Akroma. And your right it may be a Hellkite Overlord or something really nasty
4 Violent Outburst
2 Demonic dread
4 4/4 cycle for (r/b) insect
4 Dead shot minotar
4 Ingeous pouncer
4 Street wraith
4 Arashi skys asunder
4 Jiwari earth aflame
4 Shreik maw
4 Cloud thresher
4 Ingot chewer
7 open
The deck is actualy solid because if they dont go all in and are aggro your creatures> thiers if they go all in and get blow out by the combo you win.
Vs fae you have 4 MD instant speed uncounterable wraths and tons of random CA.
The combo matchup will be difficult as I dont know how you can win it without boarding your combo out.
The deck doesnt suck but it isnt great yet you actualy have matchups which is odd for a randomly made scrub deck, sadly you dont beat dragon storm like ever.
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
Toils of Night and Day, Ingot Chewer, Rift Bolt, and another Wipe Away are the basis for my sideboard atm; but thats subject to change quite a bit.
"games people play - dice, cards...what are they but quick methods of wasting a man's money, and sending him straight off to become a thief?"
- Thomas More, Utopia
"games people play - dice, cards...what are they but quick methods of wasting a man's money, and sending him straight off to become a thief?"
- Thomas More, Utopia
Maybe Withered Wretch is better for the deck then Faerie Macabre. Faerie is faster but Wretch could hit more guys. Making sure it's always a one sided End.
hm one iscosting mana to remove stuf, the other isn't.
One is easy put into the graveyard, the other isn't.
one has flying the ther hasn't.
One is costing less then 3 mana and can be played with cascade, the other can't. So which one will be better?
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
Ah, true that. I guess cascading into a 2/2 aint that impressive. Go with the faerie lol.
Is that a problem for this deck as well? People seem to qq-leave when you do such an 'unfair' and 'unfun' strategy.
Card reviews, web development tutorials, and more at: http://blog.wrightonlineworks.com
This is definitely not an extended deck...
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge