5C Elemental Aggro/Control

  • #1
    theycallmelars's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (30)
    2 Horde of Notions
    2 Wispmare
    2 Mistmeadow Witch
    4 Nova Chaser
    4 Incandescent Soulstoke
    4 Smokebraider
    4 Mulldrifter
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Reveillark

    Other Spells (6)
    3 Momentary Blink
    3 Makeshift Mannequin

    Lands (24)
    4 Primal Beyond
    4 Ancient Ziggurat
    2 Vivid Meadow
    2 Vivid Creek
    2 Vivid Crag
    2 Swamp
    2 Mountain
    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Island



    I was trying to make a more aggro oriented Elemental control, i'd just like some general thoughts or tips on how to improve it, much obliged!
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #2
    You should fix up your manabase. You don't have an even distribution of colours - there is only one green spell, so why do you need 2 forests?
    An ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Some abilities cause a source to do something rather than the ability. Any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. If the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in, its last known information is used.
  • #3
    theycallmelars's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (30)
    2 Horde of Notions
    2 Wispmare
    2 Mistmeadow Witch
    4 Nova Chaser
    4 Incandescent Soulstoke
    4 Smokebraider
    4 Mulldrifter
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Reveillark

    Other Spells (6)
    3 Momentary Blink
    3 Makeshift Mannequin

    Lands (24)
    4 Primal Beyond
    4 Ancient Ziggurat
    3 Mountain
    2 Vivid Crag
    3 Plains
    2 Vivid Meadow
    3 Island
    2 Vivid Creek
    1 Swamp



    I'm not crazy about the manabase myself but i didn't really want to throw in a lot of two color lands or things like that (mostly because of the budget) but yeah, i've fixed it up a little bit, i honestly got so focused on the creatures and other spells that i completely forgot to mess with the manabase, if there's anything else you'd like to add (manabase related or not) i'd be glad to know what i can work on! Smile thank you for your comment!
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #4
    Quote from theycallmelars
    Teenage_wannabe's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (30)
    2 Horde of Notions
    2 Wispmare
    2 Mistmeadow Witch
    4 Nova Chaser
    4 Incandescent Soulstoke
    4 Smokebraider
    4 Mulldrifter
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Reveillark

    Other Spells (6)
    3 Momentary Blink
    3 Makeshift Mannequin

    Lands (24)
    4 Primal Beyond
    4 Ancient Ziggurat
    3 Mountain
    2 Vivid Crag
    3 Plains
    2 Vivid Meadow
    3 Island
    2 Vivid Creek
    1 Swamp



    I'm not crazy about the manabase myself but i didn't really want to throw in a lot of two color lands or things like that (mostly because of the budget) but yeah, i've fixed it up a little bit, i honestly got so focused on the creatures and other spells that i completely forgot to mess with the manabase, if there's anything else you'd like to add (manabase related or not) i'd be glad to know what i can work on! Smile thank you for your comment!


    I'm going to wager that you havent even looked at the list of elementals that have come out since Lorwyn block.
    Like.. This guy or that guy.

    But poor card choices aside, your mana base still need alot of work, for which I recommend Reflecting Pool. Your Vivid Idea is still valid I think, though I might look into the Neo Duals from M10/M11/M12 if you figure out what mana you'll be focusing on. OR the duals from Scars of Mirrodin.

    Also, the lack of shriekmaw in your list is.. startling.
    No Cloudthresher either? Tsk, tsk. And Thornling seems hilariously good for this deck.

    I would remove Mannequin from the deck altogether if I were you, it was fine when it was in standard, though it is FAR too slow for extended.

    Though I wont type it out in detail until I get more info from you, I can honestly say the biggest thing this deck needs is about 150$ worth of cards.
    Modern
    Heartbeat of Spring RUGB
    Standard
    Genesis WaveRUG/GRW
    Commanders
    ZedruuRWU; "Dick move."
    Riku GRU; "YOU WANT MOAR?"
    WHY ARE THERE FOUR COLORS IN THIS DECK? JESUS CHRIST, MY EYES THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING.
    Quote from Kijin »

    If you assemble 8 warnings together, they fuse and form a ban. It's like Voltron, only with being evicted from the site instead of robot cats.
    Back on the block and looking to tear faces off.
  • #5
    I definitely agree with the inclusion of vengevine the only problem would be the cost, and in the right situations Omnath can be insane, but i don't think that this deck is the right place for him, also, i'm pretty sure i mistitled the deck, it's actually supposed to be much more of an aggro lark deck, so in that case, cards like cloudthresher and thornling sort of lose their appeal, and don't really run the deck smoothly, i did however absolutely forget about shriekmaw and will probably be running at least two of them, thinking on it i definitely agree with cutting mannequin, in this case for the shriekmaw. As far as mana goes, i've been seriously considering reflecting pool for a while, and i'll probably add glacial fortress and rootbound crag or dragonskull summit depending on which would benefit me more. All of that said, you gave me some very well thought out advice and would be interested in anything else you can think of.
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #6
    theycallmelars's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (34)
    2 Horde of Notions
    2 Shriekmaw
    3 Wispmare
    3 Mistmeadow Witch
    4 Nova Chaser
    4 Incandescent Soulstoke
    4 Smokebraider
    4 Mulldrifter
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Reveillark

    Lands (26)
    4 Primal Beyond
    4 Ancient Ziggurat
    4 Reflecting Pool
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Dragonskull Summit
    2 Vivid Marsh
    2 Vivid Grove
    1 Island
    1 Plains



    Here's the updates i made for the deck, i still sort of want to include vengevine but money is an issue, i feel more comfortable with this manabase though. This is definitely REALLY Lark-Aggro oriented.
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #7
    If you're going to play dual lands like glacial fortress and dragonskull summit that are almost always going to be entering tapped, why not just play the trilands from shards of alara? they also enter tapped, but also tap for three colors.


    Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
  • #8
    Quote from theycallmelars
    I definitely agree with the inclusion of vengevine the only problem would be the cost, and in the right situations Omnath can be insane, but i don't think that this deck is the right place for him, also, i'm pretty sure i mistitled the deck, it's actually supposed to be much more of an aggro lark deck, so in that case, cards like cloudthresher and thornling sort of lose their appeal, and don't really run the deck smoothly, i did however absolutely forget about shriekmaw and will probably be running at least two of them, thinking on it i definitely agree with cutting mannequin, in this case for the shriekmaw. As far as mana goes, i've been seriously considering reflecting pool for a while, and i'll probably add glacial fortress and rootbound crag or dragonskull summit depending on which would benefit me more. All of that said, you gave me some very well thought out advice and would be interested in anything else you can think of.


    While I understand what you're going for, you're trying to build a deck for yourself while not considering the cards and curve of the deck.

    Elemental-Lark aggro was what I played when Lorwyn was standard legal.

    It baffles me why you dislike a turn 4 7/7 with flash that pyroclasms when its comes down. Sure, reveillark doesnt return it but reveillark doesnt return horde of notions, that doesnt stop you from playing it. The same thing with shriekmaw, you know? You know what does return cloudthresher and shriekmaw(And revillark, now that I think on it..)? THIS GUY!

    But, I suppose I won't force my ideas onto you, I will however firmly suggest you NOT play Nova chaser. It is generally a bad card and enables you to get 2-for-1'd rather than focus on what your deck does best, which is 2-for-1ing your opponent. I will point out that because of Flamekin harbinger you should NEVER be without a Smokebraider on turns 2 and 3 which essentially advances your clock by two. Which means a turn 3 Horde of Notions or Turn 4 Cloudthresher, Or a turn 3 Vengevine(My god that sounds horrifying.) are pretty common things for this deck.

    I can certainly sympathize with the Vengevine problem, thats the biggest reason why I dont own a set myself, but I would get some if you can.

    Quote from weltkrieg
    If you're going to play dual lands like glacial fortress and dragonskull summit that are almost always going to be entering tapped, why not just play the trilands from shards of alara? they also enter tapped, but also tap for three colors.


    This.. is not a bad idea. XD
    Why didn't I think of that?
    Last edited by Teenage_wannabe: 6/23/2011 4:32:33 AM
    Modern
    Heartbeat of Spring RUGB
    Standard
    Genesis WaveRUG/GRW
    Commanders
    ZedruuRWU; "Dick move."
    Riku GRU; "YOU WANT MOAR?"
    WHY ARE THERE FOUR COLORS IN THIS DECK? JESUS CHRIST, MY EYES THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING.
    Quote from Kijin »

    If you assemble 8 warnings together, they fuse and form a ban. It's like Voltron, only with being evicted from the site instead of robot cats.
    Back on the block and looking to tear faces off.
  • #9
    I do like cloudthresher, but when i was considering it, i completely forgot about Horde of notions so it didn't occur to me that while i cant lark it, i can still get it back, which is actually a really great idea, the only problem though is that if you have to evoke it, it only becomes a pyroclasm, (not saying thats not good) but i think i'd like it to stay around a little while longer, so i'd just have to wait an extra turn or two, but anywah i'll probably include 2 in place of 2 of the nova chasers, i'm not 100% on why you don't like the nova chasers? In my mind i kind of see it like turn 1 Harbinger for a smokebraider, t2 braider, t3 nova chaser (if possible) championing a harbinger, a turn four swing for ten that tramples, and even if it dies i'm not really down a creature. I think four is too many, but considering the low mana cost for near endgame damage, i don't think two would be that bad.
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #10
    The only problem i have with the tri-lands over the dual lands is that the dual lands do come into play tapped, but only once. Tri lands come into play tapped every time i play one. I could include a couple though.
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #11
    Quote from theycallmelars
    The only problem i have with the tri-lands over the dual lands is that the dual lands do come into play tapped, but only once. Tri lands come into play tapped every time i play one. I could include a couple though.


    Not true. Perhaps your thinking that having a Glacial Fortress in play allows the next one to come in untapped. The Glacial Fortress is neither a plains, nor an island (even though it produces their type of mana).
    "Sometimes I wonder why I still live amongst the humans?"
  • #12
    Oh, my bad, i didn't know that, thank you for telling me!
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #13
    Quote from theycallmelars
    i'm not 100% on why you don't like the nova chasers?


    If they kill Nova Chaser by quickly casting a Terror or any other instant-speed removal spell before you get to choose which elemental to exile, you'll lose both Nova Chaser and the card you chose to champion with no way of getting the latter back.
  • #14
    theycallmelars's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (34)
    2 Chameleon Colossus
    2 Horde of Notions
    2 Thornling
    2 Shriekmaw
    3 Wispmare
    3 Mistmeadow Witch
    4 Incandescent Soulstoke
    4 Smokebraider
    4 Mulldrifter
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Reveillark

    Lands (26)
    4 Primal Beyond
    4 Ancient Ziggurat
    4 Reflecting Pool
    2 Vivid Marsh
    2 Vivid Grove
    2 Crumbling Necropolis
    2 Arcane Sanctum
    2 Island
    2 Plains
    2 Mountain



    So, here's the current decklist i have, i decided against cloudthresher in place of thornling, and the other two nova chasers in place of chameleon colossus feel free to comment on my choices, messed with the manabase too.
    Last edited by theycallmelars: 6/25/2011 1:46:01 AM
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #15
    Wow why chameleon colossus he is obviously not good and im surprised you are still trying with this deck.

    Please make more comprehensive posts, in addition to being less hostile towards other users.
    Last edited by Clock King: 6/26/2011 9:26:39 AM
  • #16
    Quote from Synalon Etuul
    If they kill Nova Chaser by quickly casting a Terror or any other instant-speed removal spell before you get to choose which elemental to exile, you'll lose both Nova Chaser and the card you chose to champion with no way of getting the latter back.


    That's wrong, Champion does not work that way.
  • #17
    nvm. wrong thread.
    Last edited by weltkrieg: 6/25/2011 8:17:44 PM


    Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
  • #19
    Quote from LOSTxRequiem
    Wow why chameleon colossus he is obviously not good and im surprised you are still trying with this deck.

    Wow, I didn't think anyone could be that helpful. Good job, carry on, win PTQ's, so-on, so forth.
    Quote from Sylar teh evil
    That's wrong, Champion does not work that way.


    No, thats actually spot on how it works when you consider the likely situation being, there will only be one other Elemental in play at the time of casting.

    Quote from theycallmelars
    Teenage_wannabe's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (34)
    2 Chameleon Colossus
    2 Horde of Notions
    2 Thornling
    2 Shriekmaw
    3 Wispmare
    3 Mistmeadow Witch
    4 Incandescent Soulstoke
    4 Smokebraider
    4 Mulldrifter
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Reveillark

    Lands (26)
    4 Primal Beyond
    4 Ancient Ziggurat
    4 Reflecting Pool
    2 Vivid Marsh
    2 Vivid Grove
    2 Crumbling Necropolis
    2 Arcane Sanctum
    2 Island
    2 Plains
    2 Mountain



    So, here's the current decklist i have, i decided against cloudthresher in place of thornling, and the other two nova chasers in place of chameleon colossus feel free to comment on my choices, messed with the manabase too.


    Working on a more thoughtful response than "No you're an idiot, listen to me."
    Expect it tomorrow.
    Also, Nice find on the collossus, I didn't even think of Changelings. Seems good to me.
    Modern
    Heartbeat of Spring RUGB
    Standard
    Genesis WaveRUG/GRW
    Commanders
    ZedruuRWU; "Dick move."
    Riku GRU; "YOU WANT MOAR?"
    WHY ARE THERE FOUR COLORS IN THIS DECK? JESUS CHRIST, MY EYES THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING.
    Quote from Kijin »

    If you assemble 8 warnings together, they fuse and form a ban. It's like Voltron, only with being evicted from the site instead of robot cats.
    Back on the block and looking to tear faces off.
  • #21
    Quote from Teenage_wannabe

    Working on a more thoughtful response than "No you're an idiot, listen to me."
    Expect it tomorrow.
    Also, Nice find on the collossus, I didn't even think of Changelings. Seems good to me.


    Alright so, I'm a little tired from testing and retesting ideas for standard right now so bear with me, I might seem a little short tempered.

    The inclusion of Wispmare in your deck is pointless. It hits such a narrow field of cards right now, I would CERTAINLY put it as a 4-of somewhere in the 75 but its not a very good card for the main board since your trying to play aggro, nothing wispmare does screams aggro.

    Now, after the revelation of changelings during my last post I would try out this gentleman. He might be solid, he might not, I however like the idea of swinging for twelve on turn 4.

    Another bonus of trying multiple changelings is you can play the Tribal lands.
    Modern
    Heartbeat of Spring RUGB
    Standard
    Genesis WaveRUG/GRW
    Commanders
    ZedruuRWU; "Dick move."
    Riku GRU; "YOU WANT MOAR?"
    WHY ARE THERE FOUR COLORS IN THIS DECK? JESUS CHRIST, MY EYES THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING.
    Quote from Kijin »

    If you assemble 8 warnings together, they fuse and form a ban. It's like Voltron, only with being evicted from the site instead of robot cats.
    Back on the block and looking to tear faces off.
  • #22
    Lord of Extinction is nice, so is shapesharer to copy an opponent's creature. Personally I like Briarhorn to ward off burn or buff a Spawnwrithe for trampling & copying damage. Oh, and Flickerwisp is a must as a 4-of. (Drop Mistmeadow Witch and 1 Thornling.) Flickering out a Harbinger or Mulldrifter is nuts, or removing a blocker, etc. and 3 power on a flyer is quite nice. In multiples, you can pull tricks like Flicker my Flickerwisp, EOT Flickerwisp comes into play and removes a potential attacker/land/Planeswalker until the next EOT.
    You like Super Smash Bros.? Melee or Brawl? Check this out! http://projectm.dantarion.com/
    It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
  • #23
    Honestly I think some more champion effects would be good too I would recommended changeling berserker and even supreme exemplar I found in my budget 5cac they were great with rite of consumption which is also good with graceful reprieve bur that's just me.
    Special thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios (.torrent, DarkNightCavalier, XenoNinja) or the awesome sig. Murder, murder, mermaid murder!:D

    GWUbant.fogGWU
  • #24
    No, thats actually spot on how it works when you consider the likely situation being, there will only be one other Elemental in play at the time of casting.


    I'm not so sure about that, champion reads "when this card enters the battlefield sacrifice it unless you exile another elemental" so if they kill it before it enters the battlefield (and i don't believe that a card can be terrored or doom bladed or whatevered while on the stack) i've not yet championed another creature so that would be no major loss to me. And if they do kill it after it resolves i'd just get my other creature back.
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
  • #25
    i'm not familar with elemental tribe but nevermaker and fulminator mage are pretty good

    you might want to find an elemental that does something against artifacts rather than against enchantments like wispmare. swords are all over the place, enchantments not so much.

    also where is the sideboard?

    ^ huh? If you only have one other elemental out, when your champion hits the field his exile trigger goes on the stack. While that trigger is on the stack, they doomblade your elemental in response. Now your trigger resolves and you don't have any elementals to exile, so you sac your champion. While it is on the stack, it is a spell, not a permanent, so you are right it can't be doombladed while on the stack :p
    Last edited by Divisionbyzer0: 6/29/2011 2:54:54 AM
  • #26
    Balls, i've been reading wispmare all wrong this whole time. I thought it said permanent, not enchantment, so yeah, pretty useless for this deck (and in general for me).
    Standard:
    EldraziGR 24-6-0
    Kuldotha RebirthR 8-3-0
    Extended:
    Tooth and NailG 18-2-0
    JundBRG 29-5-0
    Casual:
    PersistGW 26-0-0
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