RD1: Lost to a really control heavy Jund deck.
g1 - couldn't find a 2nd white mana until it was too late
g2 - he had an answer for everything
RD2: Won vs. RDW. It is an easy matchup Kitchen Finks and Forge-Tender just dominate.
RD3: Won vs. Wargate
g1 - I curve out and destroy his Prismatic Omen
g2 - I play t1 - Noble t2 - Pridemage, Birds t3 - Pridemage and have enough countermagic to go all the way
RD4: Won vs. RDW. Again this is a pretty easy matchup
g1 - he explodes and gets me to 6 but Kitchen Finks gets me back up and he runs outta gas.
g2 - Burrenton Forge-Tender equipped with SoFoF
RD5: Won vs. Jund
g1 - He gets sort of mana screwed as I beat up on him with Mirran Crusader with Elspeth on the board
g2 - I decided to keep a sort of slow hand with no acceleration but two Mirran Crusader and Counters and I counter his first few plays he kills my first Crusader but he can't deal with the 2nd.
RD6: Loss vs. Mirror
g1 - I almost curved out but he had alot of answers. I was able to win off Hero + Cryptic Command
g2 - I made a huge mistake with Elspeth where I should've made a token instead of pumping and attacking and was unable to protect her vs Mirran Crusader(exalted) vs my two green creatures. He took over board position after that and was unable to get it back. Losing with him at 5life
g3 - I gain board position but it later stalls as I chip away and I make the mistake of not Pathing his Knight of the Reliquary while it has summoning sickness so he gets in an attack with his hero and I'm unable to get in lethal as he top decks 3 answers after that. I lose with him at 2 life
RD7: Loss vs. Wargate
g1 - My hand isn't the best but I kill his first omen until he's able to play omen and scapeshift same turn
g2 - I play way too conservative and he's able to land omen and scapeshift the following turn with countermagic up.
Overall: I made a few mistakes and got unlucky (due to mistake in design) but overall I was pretty happy with the deck, with another month to prepare for the next PTQ I should be able to hash everything out.
Hero of Bladehold is alright but at 4cc I always didn't want to cast it as it doesn't immediately impact the field and I needed open mana for countermagic, i think it is just too easily dealt with and should be replaced.
Finest Hour was good, I was never unable to set it up with Hero but it was still great with Mirran Crusader.
Mana Leak was awkward alot of the time but I think it is necessary. I kept thinking what if this was Ardent Plea.
Cryptic Command and Bant Charm were all-stars all day.
Sideboard needs to be changed some for Wargate/scapeshift with either a more aggressive approach or Leyline of Sanctity, Runed Halo, Counters and Extra Enchantment removal.
So I don't know much about this deck in extended but I was wondering why no Rhox War Monk? Legacy Bant plays him and he's basically one of the best creatures in legacy.
Blood Braid Elf is underplayed in standard now. She was in practically every deck, but after October people just suddenly stopped running her in their 75. Weird considering how good she is.
rhox war monk is pretty good, but u want to play mirran crusdaer or kotr, on turn 2 if you have a mana accelerant or turn 3 against most decks, especially faeries. life gain is sweet against mono red, but i rather play forge tender out of the board.
@Deus: I am working on a similar deck at the moment, I will let you know my test results as far as I got enough matches.
Not sure about the rest of the deck, but you need 4 Stoneforge Mystic for sure and as equipments 2 Swords oFaF, 1 Sword of BaM and one Behemoth Sledge.
Bant Charm is sick of course, but I disagree about the lack of CC in Rabbit´s list, you got 4 Knight of the Reliquary 4 Noble Hierarch and 4 Birds of Paradise for mana fixing, so in most cases it should be no issue to cast it. And CC is the best card blue features in Extended.
Btw. Stoneforge Mystic is like Bitterblossom, so it cant be right if you play only 2 or 3. In most cases you get SoFaF first vs faeries and Control, but Sledge can be good to race and to force through trample damage in many cases and SoBaM can be good to avoid Jace or CC bounce as he got no way to get rid of the kill you got on board then.
So, uh, you clearly are theorycrafting.
Sledge is reasonable, and I haven't gotten to test it. I believe (but cannot say for sure) Sledge is just too greedy, and is better as SoFaF #2, or SoBaM #1.
This is fundamentally a G/W deck. It's not designed to splash UUU. Mana Leak is good. Bant Charm is fine. Vendillion Clique is questionable. Cryptic, let me tell you is right out. UU is hard. UUU is darned near impossible.
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Be they worthy or just plain riff-raff, my warhead shall punish all without distinction. -Rip Van Winkle
Sledge is reasonable, and I haven't gotten to test it. I believe (but cannot say for sure) Sledge is just too greedy, and is better as SoFaF #2, or SoBaM #1.
This is fundamentally a G/W deck. It's not designed to splash UUU. Mana Leak is good. Bant Charm is fine. Vendillion Clique is questionable. Cryptic, let me tell you is right out. UU is hard. UUU is darned near impossible.
I agree almost on everything but I decided to run Cryptic Command this past weekend and had no problems casting it and it won me a few games, I just think its too good to pass on running plus running Flooded Grove makes it pretty easy to cast.
I agree almost on everything but I decided to run Cryptic Command this past weekend and had no problems casting it and it won me a few games, I just think its too good to pass on running plus running Flooded Grove makes it pretty easy to cast.
Yes, but what about your other spells? I think the best part of Reid Duke's list is that nothing seems greedy. Everything is easy to cast, nothing other than Elspeth costs 4.
In some sense, I don't want to cast Cryptic Command in this deck. Yes, when I resolve that spell, I presume that it does dumb stuff, as per the usual. But it doesn't "win the game" any more than another 4 mana spell ought to. I would rather have a more stable mana base than a warped on to try and play Cryptic Command over Mana Leak.
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Be they worthy or just plain riff-raff, my warhead shall punish all without distinction. -Rip Van Winkle
I see your point. My concern is a non-hard counter in a deck which taps out always on early turns might be a very bad draw later. If you add the leaks to the manadorks draws which might be dead when you have no equip in play, you are weakening you late game power. And let's face it, you won't be countering "early" creatures with this deck unless you had a subpar start, otherwise you would probably be tapped out on those turns. Negate was only a suggestion, you might be right it is not the best call, but I am pretty sure I want a card which has a good power level in the late game in those slots. Any suggestion?
Cryptic Command. lol.
It is only one of if not the best card in Extended and Flooded Grove/Mystic Gate makes it pretty easy to play.
mm, I wouldnt say it is unplayable, but for sure it is not an easy add. You have to rework your mana heavily, otherwise if your mana dorks get killed you might end not being able to cast it most of the time.
What I like the most in cryptic is the pure casting cost: 4. As I said, you need counters for when you start capitalizing your board position (i.e: turn 4).
Dunno honestly, as those 3 slots might also be useful to strengthen the deck vs the mirror, which I bet will become quite common within a couple of ptqs..
I think Cryptic in this deck is a very interesting idea. I run 1 Island, 1 Gate, 2 Seachrome, but I'm still wondering about if its castible...
I'm also considering Distortion Strike since my opp seems to stabilize at 3-8 most games I lose. I'm thinking going 2 DS, 2 PtE, 2 Mana Leak, 2 Bant Charm.
For the mirror I usually bring in 1 Basilisk Collar, PtE, and 2 Tectonic Edge for 1 Seachrome, 1 Stirring Wildwood, and 1 Bant Charm. The key to the mirror is establishing an initial board position and not overextending. I usually mul to 5 if it gets me my first mana dork and keep a PtE in reserve for an opponent's Crusader.
The mu that I am having trouble with is Fae. I bring in the two Edges and the Deglamer, but usually lose G1 and G3.
Bant as a whole is pretty bad vs Boros and Red Deck. Don't play this deck, if you think you'll face those decks. Arc Trail is such a wrecking ball.
That just means you aren't playing right. You have Mana Leak and Bant Charm. Just don't over extend and its not that difficult a matchup, especially with Forge tender and Leyline. If you are having a lot of trouble, put spell pierce on the sb, or turn aside
I don't know why I didn't think to use Linvala in the mirror, that's a good idea. Fae is not dominating my meta right now, I see a lot of creature-based aggro... Red and Boros being popular. If Fae starts to become a problem then I might bring in some GSS, for the PTE, 1 Deglamor, and 1 Linvala most likely.
Honestly I do not think anymore that this Mirran Crusader is a good idea. Mainly because Faeries is not the only mu you have to deal with. He is good vs Fae, but online Boros and Red Deck Wins are very popular and UW did win some events recently too. vs those decks the crusader is really bad and there are enough options.
You have a point, KotR>Mirran vs burn decks. Has only considered trading a Crusader or two for a War Rhino?
Bant has definitely evolved over the past couple of weeks from adding Cryptic Commands to Time Warp and finding a balance between counters and removal it seems.
Bant has definitely evolved over the past couple of weeks from adding Cryptic Commands to Time Warp and finding a balance between counters and removal it seems.
I've been messing around with Bant recently and I've found Rhox War Monk to be an allstar. I play him over crusader but I haven't tested crusader extensively. I have a few questions about your list. Why does garruk get a nod over elspeth? How often do you see your singleton cryptic and colonnade in situations that they're actually relevant? And why stag over thrun?
Another thing I've messed around with is mulldrifter and lark but they weren't good enough to justify cutting something for them. Also, what do you guys think of Jace TMS? I haven't tried him and he doesn't seem to really fit the gameplan but he's just sooo good. I'll update this with my current list in the morning.
Blood Braid Elf is underplayed in standard now. She was in practically every deck, but after October people just suddenly stopped running her in their 75. Weird considering how good she is.
I've been messing around with Bant recently and I've found Rhox War Monk to be an allstar. I play him over crusader but I haven't tested crusader extensively. I have a few questions about your list. Why does garruk get a nod over elspeth? How often do you see your singleton cryptic and colonnade in situations that they're actually relevant? And why stag over thrun?
Another thing I've messed around with is mulldrifter and lark but they weren't good enough to justify cutting something for them. Also, what do you guys think of Jace TMS? I haven't tried him and he doesn't seem to really fit the gameplan but he's just sooo good. I'll update this with my current list in the morning.
Crusader is easily the best 3 drop in the format at this moment. Garruk gets the nod because it allows you to cast it and untap lands to play counters like sword does, provides constant threats after wraths (which caw blade runs) and breaks wins with stalemates in which I have sort of found myself in vs. the Mirror. Cryptic is technically the 4th Mana Leak if that makes sense as it is counter magic that can win the late game where Mana Leak isn't as powerful and Colonnnade falls under the same boat with Stirring Wildwood, I originally had two Colonnade but sort of found it too expensive and switched to two SW and one CC for late game. Stag over Thrun because Stag is better? lol, It costs 1 more mana and can be chump blocked every turn. I would maybe run 1 Thrun in the sideboard over a stag but other than that I wouldn't bother with him.
Muldrifter at 3 mana doesn't fit because that spot is so clogged up and Lark is way too expensive. Jace is sort of weird in this format and doesn't see alot of play for some reason and I think Elspeth and Garruk are better suited for this deck.
I am. Running pretty standard Stoneforge list except using some Sejiri Steppes in the mana base to help fight removal. I also might add some different equipment in the sideboard once I scope out the competition.
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Legacy - Cat Sligh:symr::symg::symw:
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
My Version:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Kitchen Finks
Other:
4x Bant Charm
3x Path to Exile
3x Cryptic Command
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Sword of Feast or Famine
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Razorverge Thicket
2x Seachrome Coast
3x Flooded Grove
2x Wooded Bastion
2x Stirring Wildwood
4x Forest
2x Plains
1x Island
4x Great Stable Stag
4x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Negate
1x Path to Exile
2x Sower of Temptation
Other Lists:
Reiderrabbit: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/2104903
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Bant Charm
3x Mana Leak
2x Path to Exile
2x Sword of Feast or Famine
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Great Sable Stag
2 Path to Exile
4 Unified Will
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Kitchen Finks
4x Mirran Crusader
3x Hero of Bladehold
Other:
1x Elspeth Knight-Errant
2x Sword of Feast or Famine
2x Finest Hour
3x Bant Charm
3x Mana Leak
2x Cryptic Command
1x Path to Exile
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Razorverge Thicket
3x Flooded Grove
2x Wooded Bastion
2x Celestial Colonnade
4x Forest
3x Plains
2x Island
4x Great Stable Stag
4x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Kitchen Finks
3x Path to Exile
3x Flashfreeze
I think this is what I am settling on for tomorrow's PTQ. Any Thoughts or Suggestions are appreciated.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
RD1: Lost to a really control heavy Jund deck.
g1 - couldn't find a 2nd white mana until it was too late
g2 - he had an answer for everything
RD2: Won vs. RDW. It is an easy matchup Kitchen Finks and Forge-Tender just dominate.
RD3: Won vs. Wargate
g1 - I curve out and destroy his Prismatic Omen
g2 - I play t1 - Noble t2 - Pridemage, Birds t3 - Pridemage and have enough countermagic to go all the way
RD4: Won vs. RDW. Again this is a pretty easy matchup
g1 - he explodes and gets me to 6 but Kitchen Finks gets me back up and he runs outta gas.
g2 - Burrenton Forge-Tender equipped with SoFoF
RD5: Won vs. Jund
g1 - He gets sort of mana screwed as I beat up on him with Mirran Crusader with Elspeth on the board
g2 - I decided to keep a sort of slow hand with no acceleration but two Mirran Crusader and Counters and I counter his first few plays he kills my first Crusader but he can't deal with the 2nd.
RD6: Loss vs. Mirror
g1 - I almost curved out but he had alot of answers. I was able to win off Hero + Cryptic Command
g2 - I made a huge mistake with Elspeth where I should've made a token instead of pumping and attacking and was unable to protect her vs Mirran Crusader(exalted) vs my two green creatures. He took over board position after that and was unable to get it back. Losing with him at 5life
g3 - I gain board position but it later stalls as I chip away and I make the mistake of not Pathing his Knight of the Reliquary while it has summoning sickness so he gets in an attack with his hero and I'm unable to get in lethal as he top decks 3 answers after that. I lose with him at 2 life
RD7: Loss vs. Wargate
g1 - My hand isn't the best but I kill his first omen until he's able to play omen and scapeshift same turn
g2 - I play way too conservative and he's able to land omen and scapeshift the following turn with countermagic up.
Overall: I made a few mistakes and got unlucky (due to mistake in design) but overall I was pretty happy with the deck, with another month to prepare for the next PTQ I should be able to hash everything out.
Hero of Bladehold is alright but at 4cc I always didn't want to cast it as it doesn't immediately impact the field and I needed open mana for countermagic, i think it is just too easily dealt with and should be replaced.
Finest Hour was good, I was never unable to set it up with Hero but it was still great with Mirran Crusader.
Mana Leak was awkward alot of the time but I think it is necessary. I kept thinking what if this was Ardent Plea.
Cryptic Command and Bant Charm were all-stars all day.
Sideboard needs to be changed some for Wargate/scapeshift with either a more aggressive approach or Leyline of Sanctity, Runed Halo, Counters and Extra Enchantment removal.
Possible Changes:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Kitchen Finks
Other:
2x Sword of Feast or Famine
2x Elspeth Knight-Errant
4x Bant Charm
2x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Razorverge Thicket
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Wooded Bastion
3x Flooded Grove
4x Forest
3x Plains
2x Island
4x Great Stable Stag
4x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Negate
Article from Starcity free section by Gavin Verhey
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
Reiderrabbit took 1st in MtGO PTQ
So, uh, you clearly are theorycrafting.
Sledge is reasonable, and I haven't gotten to test it. I believe (but cannot say for sure) Sledge is just too greedy, and is better as SoFaF #2, or SoBaM #1.
This is fundamentally a G/W deck. It's not designed to splash UUU. Mana Leak is good. Bant Charm is fine. Vendillion Clique is questionable. Cryptic, let me tell you is right out. UU is hard. UUU is darned near impossible.
I agree almost on everything but I decided to run Cryptic Command this past weekend and had no problems casting it and it won me a few games, I just think its too good to pass on running plus running Flooded Grove makes it pretty easy to cast.
Great Article:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/extended/21242_Winning_A_PTQ_With_Stoneforge_Bant_Or_Why_Analyzing_Metagame_Data_Matters.html
by Reid Duke (Reiderrabbit)
Yes, but what about your other spells? I think the best part of Reid Duke's list is that nothing seems greedy. Everything is easy to cast, nothing other than Elspeth costs 4.
In some sense, I don't want to cast Cryptic Command in this deck. Yes, when I resolve that spell, I presume that it does dumb stuff, as per the usual. But it doesn't "win the game" any more than another 4 mana spell ought to. I would rather have a more stable mana base than a warped on to try and play Cryptic Command over Mana Leak.
Cryptic Command. lol.
It is only one of if not the best card in Extended and Flooded Grove/Mystic Gate makes it pretty easy to play.
I think Cryptic in this deck is a very interesting idea. I run 1 Island, 1 Gate, 2 Seachrome, but I'm still wondering about if its castible...
I'm also considering Distortion Strike since my opp seems to stabilize at 3-8 most games I lose. I'm thinking going 2 DS, 2 PtE, 2 Mana Leak, 2 Bant Charm.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
What anti-valakut cards are not anti-red? I have 3 Forge Tenders and 3 Leylines for valaut and red
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalkers:
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Artifacts:
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
Spells:
3 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
4 Bant Charm
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Mystic Gate
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sejiri Steppe
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Deglamer
1 Path to Exile
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
For the mirror I usually bring in 1 Basilisk Collar, PtE, and 2 Tectonic Edge for 1 Seachrome, 1 Stirring Wildwood, and 1 Bant Charm. The key to the mirror is establishing an initial board position and not overextending. I usually mul to 5 if it gets me my first mana dork and keep a PtE in reserve for an opponent's Crusader.
The mu that I am having trouble with is Fae. I bring in the two Edges and the Deglamer, but usually lose G1 and G3.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
That just means you aren't playing right. You have Mana Leak and Bant Charm. Just don't over extend and its not that difficult a matchup, especially with Forge tender and Leyline. If you are having a lot of trouble, put spell pierce on the sb, or turn aside
I don't know why I didn't think to use Linvala in the mirror, that's a good idea. Fae is not dominating my meta right now, I see a lot of creature-based aggro... Red and Boros being popular. If Fae starts to become a problem then I might bring in some GSS, for the PTE, 1 Deglamor, and 1 Linvala most likely.
You have a point, KotR>Mirran vs burn decks. Has only considered trading a Crusader or two for a War Rhino?
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
My Updated List:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Kitchen Finks
4x Mirran Crusader
Other:
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Elspeth Knight-Errant
2x Sword of Feast or Famine
1x Mortarpod
4x Bant Charm
3x Mana Leak
1x Cryptic Command
4x Razorverge Thicket
2x Wooded Bastion
2x Stirring Wildwood
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Celestial Colonnade
2x Flooded Grove
4x Forest
3x Plains
2x Island
4x Path to Exile
3x Great Stable Stag
3x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Flashfreeze
1x Kitchen Finks
I've been messing around with Bant recently and I've found Rhox War Monk to be an allstar. I play him over crusader but I haven't tested crusader extensively. I have a few questions about your list. Why does garruk get a nod over elspeth? How often do you see your singleton cryptic and colonnade in situations that they're actually relevant? And why stag over thrun?
Another thing I've messed around with is mulldrifter and lark but they weren't good enough to justify cutting something for them. Also, what do you guys think of Jace TMS? I haven't tried him and he doesn't seem to really fit the gameplan but he's just sooo good. I'll update this with my current list in the morning.
Crusader is easily the best 3 drop in the format at this moment. Garruk gets the nod because it allows you to cast it and untap lands to play counters like sword does, provides constant threats after wraths (which caw blade runs) and breaks wins with stalemates in which I have sort of found myself in vs. the Mirror. Cryptic is technically the 4th Mana Leak if that makes sense as it is counter magic that can win the late game where Mana Leak isn't as powerful and Colonnnade falls under the same boat with Stirring Wildwood, I originally had two Colonnade but sort of found it too expensive and switched to two SW and one CC for late game. Stag over Thrun because Stag is better? lol, It costs 1 more mana and can be chump blocked every turn. I would maybe run 1 Thrun in the sideboard over a stag but other than that I wouldn't bother with him.
Muldrifter at 3 mana doesn't fit because that spot is so clogged up and Lark is way too expensive. Jace is sort of weird in this format and doesn't see alot of play for some reason and I think Elspeth and Garruk are better suited for this deck.
-in hindsight im not even playing lorwyn cards except the lands
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
what about this lil guy?. he looks pretty good on paper. draws card and gives life