What is Can-O-Worms?
Before the Time Spiral Rotation in Standard, a deck popped up on the MTG Forums known as Can-O-Worms. A large Traumatize Combo based on the card Worm Harvest. With the introduction of New Extended, it seems like the perfect time to restore this deck (Even if only for a short time).
How does it work?
Using stall tactics such as Damnation and Wrath of God or counter magic such as Cryptic Command and Mana Leak you can buy time until you either draw a Traumatize or a tutor such as Diabolic Tutor or Beseech the Queen (Or other Tutors included in the package). Once you Traumatize yourself, your graveyard is filled with lands and Dakmor Salvage to give you the ability to recur Worm Harvest giving you a mass of creatures. Also included is Narcomoeba and Dread Return allowing you to reccur creatures included in your build, or reach alternate win conditions such as Ancestor's Chosen with Felidar Sovreign. Overall each deck is extremely customizable with both colors and land choices.
HOLY CRAP!! What is the point? Why not just make a 60 or 61 card esper deck? I mean with that many cards and no battle of wits? wth? 60 to 61 cards would give you consistancy. How would this current form handle fae or rdw? Not very consistantly i would imagine. Please dont say there are cards in here that can handle every possible deck.
Making 10 to 12 guys a turn and winning is more important then making 30 something guys sooner or later and loosing. I know, you will tutor for an answer. But with that many cards its hard to believe you could tutor for an answer and already be holding the combo. You would have to tutor for an answer then wait, then tutor for another answer then wait then tutor for another answer then probably die.
Hell, Why not make it all answers and no win con combo? Straight deck every game? Take your sb and stick it main. What is another 15 cards? I mean really.
This crazy sceme of yours may have worker back in standard... I guess. But I for one have never lost to any thing like this.
With all seriousness aside, I wish you luck with this. I really really really hope this becomes the deck to beat. I promise you I got that. In fact here is a public challenge. Get every one at a tourney to play this and message me, if I don`t go undefeated then you can have my entire collection, first born son, trophy girlfriend, car, 100k a year personal business, I`ll study night and day and make a time machine go back and buy you a thousand pounds of gold from the early 1900`s and personally kneel down and worship every crap you take.
HOLY CRAP!! What is the point? Why not just make a 60 or 61 card esper deck? I mean with that many cards and no battle of wits? wth? 60 to 61 cards would give you consistancy. How would this current form handle fae or rdw? Not very consistantly i would imagine. Please dont say there are cards in here that can handle every possible deck.
Making 10 to 12 guys a turn and winning is more important then making 30 something guys sooner or later and loosing. I know, you will tutor for an answer. But with that many cards its hard to believe you could tutor for an answer and already be holding the combo. You would have to tutor for an answer then wait, then tutor for another answer then wait then tutor for another answer then probably die.
Hell, Why not make it all answers and no win con combo? Straight deck every game? Take your sb and stick it main. What is another 15 cards? I mean really.
This crazy sceme of yours may have worker back in standard... I guess. But I for one have never lost to any thing like this.
With all seriousness aside, I wish you luck with this. I really really really hope this becomes the deck to beat. I promise you I got that. In fact here is a public challenge. Get every one at a tourney to play this and message me, if I don`t go undefeated then you can have my entire collection, first born son, trophy girlfriend, car, 100k a year personal business, I`ll study night and day and make a time machine go back and buy you a thousand pounds of gold from the early 1900`s and personally kneel down and worship every crap you take.
You clearly do not see the point, and your harsh attitude isn't appreciated. Instead of calling something out at first glance I suggest you try it instead. I make it a policy to not call out any deck and how it is designed to work until playing a couple of games and learning it's Pros/Cons. Thank you for your time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: :symr:Sphinx Control
:symu::symr::symg::symw:Time Warp Combo:symu::symr::symg::symw: Goblins:symr:
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
I stopped running Worm Harvest when Life from the Loam rotated out of extended. I have no interest in building the deck. However you need to pick a kill condition: Creatures or Worm Harvest because there is so much fat in your deck that it is slowing your engine down. No Realms Uncharted or Oona's Grace's or even some of the basic support cards for a deck based on retrace.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
OP. Would you please explain the reasoning why you have so many cards in your deck, this way we can get past the "OMG, It's not 60!!!!" phase. I expected to see Battle of Wits of some sort in the deck, but did not.
I withhold judgment until a defense is posted. Is it simply to Traumatize yourself for a lot of land so you can retrace the Worm's Harvest? If so, this could be reliable at a lower number of cards, giving you your Traumatizes faster.
OP. Would you please explain the reasoning why you have so many cards in your deck, this way we can get past the "OMG, It's not 60!!!!" phase. I expected to see Battle of Wits of some sort in the deck, but did not.
I withhold judgment until a defense is posted. Is it simply to Traumatize yourself for a lot of land so you can retrace the Worm's Harvest? If so, this could be reliable at a lower number of cards, giving you your Traumatizes faster.
The deck relies on multiple, reliable win conditions that can all be accomplished with or without a Traumatize. As seen in the OP, the build includes tricks such as Ancestor's Chosen with Felidar Sovereign. You -usually- hit three Narcomeoba allowing you to Dread Return Ancestor's Chosen upon a successful resolution of Traumatize allowing you to gain a large amount of life. The other conditions include control/beat down with the creatures included. There is also the reason of the deck to be, which is Worm Harvest. After a traumatize your Worm Harvest will land for around 30-50 tokens which must be answered by your opponents -- only to have you do it again next turn with Dakmor Salvage.
For those of your claiming a 60 card package would do, you haven't taken the time to understand the complete point of the deck which is to utilize the combo to it's fullest potential. I have actually tested it, being the one who build this in particular version and have not run into too many problems. The Mana base has consistently worked for me, and I have been able to pull off one of the multiple win conditions within 6-7 turns against a large variety of decks.
Edit: Also, I am not claiming in any way shape or form that 200 cards is the best design for the deck -- simply a personal preference. Decks posted in the original design threat over on the Official Wizards Forums ranged in size and variety of colors as well.
Guys, this deck doesn't have enough cards (228) to win via Battle of the Wits(250), so stop complaining about it NOT being battle of wits. Personally though, I'd trim this deck down to 100 or even 80.
I've played in EDH with this strategy in mind at one point in time, and personally, without SDT or the abundant amount of tutors that can be used in EDH, I don't think it's going to go as smoothly as you think it would.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On the works: Leyline Deck Wins
:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Not to open a can of worms (AM I CLEVER YET?), but there is no reason this deck couldn't be 60 cards. Why there are 200+ cards to self-traumatize, just for starters, seems... loose. There are plenty of ways to get cards into a graveyard without Traumatize or running an almost unshuffleable number of cards. When a thread starts off "Hey this seems kind of awful" followed by additional walls of text defending genius, it is clear the thread has failed on liftoff.
If you PM me about this thread and have not read this explanation, I am going to ignore you.
What is Can-O-Worms?
Before the Time Spiral Rotation in Standard, a deck popped up on the MTG Forums known as Can-O-Worms. A large Traumatize Combo based on the card Worm Harvest. With the introduction of New Extended, it seems like the perfect time to restore this deck (Even if only for a short time).
How does it work?
Using stall tactics such as Damnation and Wrath of God or counter magic such as Cryptic Command and Mana Leak you can buy time until you either draw a Traumatize or a tutor such as Diabolic Tutor or Beseech the Queen (Or other Tutors included in the package). Once you Traumatize yourself, your graveyard is filled with lands and Dakmor Salvage to give you the ability to recur Worm Harvest giving you a mass of creatures. Also included is Narcomoeba and Dread Return allowing you to reccur creatures included in your build, or reach alternate win conditions such as Ancestor's Chosen with Felidar Sovreign. Overall each deck is extremely customizable with both colors and land choices.
Sample Decklist:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Marsh Flats
2 Rupture Spire
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Arcane Sanctum
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Vivid Meadow
5 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Vivid Marsh
4 Vivid Grove
4 Vivid Creek
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Sunken Ruins
2 Flooded Grove
2 Mystic Gate
5 Forest
5 Swamp
5 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Murmuring Bosk
Creatures
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
4 Narcomoeba
4 Grave Titan
4 Ancestor's Chosen
4 Shriekmaw
4 Felidar Sovereign
4 Damnation
4 Beseech the Queen
4 Diabolic Tutor
4 Worm Harvest
4 Traumatize
4 Broken Ambitions
4 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Wrath of God
4 Day of Judgment
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Beacon of Unrest
4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Dread Return
4 Demonic Collusion
4 Liliana Vess
4 Makeshift Mannequin
4 Hallowed Burial
4 Mana Leak
4 Crystal Ball
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Guttural Response
4 Autumn Veil
3 Pull from Eternity
This is my personal build, and through testing I find it has enjoyable match ups.
The original deck and concept for builds can be found here:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/19110030/Can-O-Worms
Feel free to comment and post builds of your own.
Standard:
:symr:Sphinx Control
:symu::symr::symg::symw:Time Warp Combo:symu::symr::symg::symw:
Goblins:symr:
Extended:
:symu::symr::symw: Kiki-Jiki Combo:symu::symr::symw:
:symu::symb:Dark Depths Combo:symu::symb:
:symu:Myr Grinder:symu:
Legacy:
:symr::symg:Belcher Combo:symr::symg:
:symu::symw:Fish:symu::symw:
:symtap:43 Land:symtap:
Vintage:
:symr::symg::symu:Belcher Combo:symr::symg::symu:
:symu::symb:Grim Long:symu::symb:
:symg::symw:Haterade:symg::symw:
Making 10 to 12 guys a turn and winning is more important then making 30 something guys sooner or later and loosing. I know, you will tutor for an answer. But with that many cards its hard to believe you could tutor for an answer and already be holding the combo. You would have to tutor for an answer then wait, then tutor for another answer then wait then tutor for another answer then probably die.
Hell, Why not make it all answers and no win con combo? Straight deck every game? Take your sb and stick it main. What is another 15 cards? I mean really.
This crazy sceme of yours may have worker back in standard... I guess. But I for one have never lost to any thing like this.
With all seriousness aside, I wish you luck with this. I really really really hope this becomes the deck to beat. I promise you I got that. In fact here is a public challenge. Get every one at a tourney to play this and message me, if I don`t go undefeated then you can have my entire collection, first born son, trophy girlfriend, car, 100k a year personal business, I`ll study night and day and make a time machine go back and buy you a thousand pounds of gold from the early 1900`s and personally kneel down and worship every crap you take.
You clearly do not see the point, and your harsh attitude isn't appreciated. Instead of calling something out at first glance I suggest you try it instead. I make it a policy to not call out any deck and how it is designed to work until playing a couple of games and learning it's Pros/Cons. Thank you for your time.
Standard:
:symr:Sphinx Control
:symu::symr::symg::symw:Time Warp Combo:symu::symr::symg::symw:
Goblins:symr:
Extended:
:symu::symr::symw: Kiki-Jiki Combo:symu::symr::symw:
:symu::symb:Dark Depths Combo:symu::symb:
:symu:Myr Grinder:symu:
Legacy:
:symr::symg:Belcher Combo:symr::symg:
:symu::symw:Fish:symu::symw:
:symtap:43 Land:symtap:
Vintage:
:symr::symg::symu:Belcher Combo:symr::symg::symu:
:symu::symb:Grim Long:symu::symb:
:symg::symw:Haterade:symg::symw:
There is no reason to run over 60 cards.
Another person who obviously did not read. Build a 60 Card Version of this deck please, then I will show you why it requires a large card base.
Standard:
:symr:Sphinx Control
:symu::symr::symg::symw:Time Warp Combo:symu::symr::symg::symw:
Goblins:symr:
Extended:
:symu::symr::symw: Kiki-Jiki Combo:symu::symr::symw:
:symu::symb:Dark Depths Combo:symu::symb:
:symu:Myr Grinder:symu:
Legacy:
:symr::symg:Belcher Combo:symr::symg:
:symu::symw:Fish:symu::symw:
:symtap:43 Land:symtap:
Vintage:
:symr::symg::symu:Belcher Combo:symr::symg::symu:
:symu::symb:Grim Long:symu::symb:
:symg::symw:Haterade:symg::symw:
I withhold judgment until a defense is posted. Is it simply to Traumatize yourself for a lot of land so you can retrace the Worm's Harvest? If so, this could be reliable at a lower number of cards, giving you your Traumatizes faster.
Thank you to Damnation Studios , specifically AWOL, for the sig!
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"The first principle of Philosophy is to question everything. Even the first principle of philosophy."
The deck relies on multiple, reliable win conditions that can all be accomplished with or without a Traumatize. As seen in the OP, the build includes tricks such as Ancestor's Chosen with Felidar Sovereign. You -usually- hit three Narcomeoba allowing you to Dread Return Ancestor's Chosen upon a successful resolution of Traumatize allowing you to gain a large amount of life. The other conditions include control/beat down with the creatures included. There is also the reason of the deck to be, which is Worm Harvest. After a traumatize your Worm Harvest will land for around 30-50 tokens which must be answered by your opponents -- only to have you do it again next turn with Dakmor Salvage.
For those of your claiming a 60 card package would do, you haven't taken the time to understand the complete point of the deck which is to utilize the combo to it's fullest potential. I have actually tested it, being the one who build this in particular version and have not run into too many problems. The Mana base has consistently worked for me, and I have been able to pull off one of the multiple win conditions within 6-7 turns against a large variety of decks.
Edit: Also, I am not claiming in any way shape or form that 200 cards is the best design for the deck -- simply a personal preference. Decks posted in the original design threat over on the Official Wizards Forums ranged in size and variety of colors as well.
Standard:
:symr:Sphinx Control
:symu::symr::symg::symw:Time Warp Combo:symu::symr::symg::symw:
Goblins:symr:
Extended:
:symu::symr::symw: Kiki-Jiki Combo:symu::symr::symw:
:symu::symb:Dark Depths Combo:symu::symb:
:symu:Myr Grinder:symu:
Legacy:
:symr::symg:Belcher Combo:symr::symg:
:symu::symw:Fish:symu::symw:
:symtap:43 Land:symtap:
Vintage:
:symr::symg::symu:Belcher Combo:symr::symg::symu:
:symu::symb:Grim Long:symu::symb:
:symg::symw:Haterade:symg::symw:
I've played in EDH with this strategy in mind at one point in time, and personally, without SDT or the abundant amount of tutors that can be used in EDH, I don't think it's going to go as smoothly as you think it would.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Not to open a can of worms (AM I CLEVER YET?), but there is no reason this deck couldn't be 60 cards. Why there are 200+ cards to self-traumatize, just for starters, seems... loose. There are plenty of ways to get cards into a graveyard without Traumatize or running an almost unshuffleable number of cards. When a thread starts off "Hey this seems kind of awful" followed by additional walls of text defending genius, it is clear the thread has failed on liftoff.
If you PM me about this thread and have not read this explanation, I am going to ignore you.
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