What are you saying? Are you saying splash to add this in. Or are you saying this card kills whatever so we need something? Just naming a card is not a very good response. Unless of course it's Taunting Elf.
I'd much rather have options, and sacrificing your only means to win in combat (in most builds) seems like a poor use of the amazing card advantage produced by this deck.
You can do all of this at instant speed, just thought I'd point that out. Of course, because of the M10 rulings, your opponents dude would live through it, but at least you would be safe.
I'm not nessacarily trying to defend my point. Just I don't yet have the Time Seives, but I still win every game that I play with this deck. The card advantage that you get through Sword and Foundry is just amazing. I played abainst a very good EDH deck with my thropter deck and still decked him. Grinding station is definately a decent alternative route if you don't have the time seives.
Oh, and I know that you all have already talked about Cranial Plating and decided that the deck doesn't need it, but Ive found that it has saved my ass multiple time. Esp. with the ability to pop it on at instant speed. And the white version cant run time seives, bo you might want to think about the plating in it.
What about Reshape and Lotus Bloom? Makes more tokens faster. Just options.
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About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
Right now, testing a Esper build of it has brought out some interesting results. It is basically a UB version with maindecked Canonist. More on it once it isn't 2 in the morning.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Right now, testing a Esper build of it has brought out some interesting results. It is basically a UB version with maindecked Canonist. More on it once it isn't 2 in the morning.
Why would you want to put Canonist MD?
I didn't see any situation during my tests that i would want it in my deck.
I just played a game against a thopter deck on MWS with Dstorm...bad draw (never drew a dragonstorm, and drew 2 dragons..), thopter deck comboed out before I could play the dstorm next turn.
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"without order nothing exists, without chaos nothing evolves"
Currently Playing: Modern UBR Affinity UR Storm
Standard: UR Burning Control G Primal Surge
Casual: UR Dragonstorm
If you're ever in the SoCal San Gabriel Valley area, shoot me an email, my username @ gmail.com....
I didn't see any situation during my tests that i would want it in my deck.
Just testing it as a brick wall against other counter decks. Forces them to play in substandard form for the the most part. I found it doesn't do much against the problem decks (Affinity), so I think it should stay in the SB. On a similar note, should any build of this deck run Meddling? It would help against the often annoying and game ending Extirpate.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Just testing it as a brick wall against other counter decks. Forces them to play in substandard form for the the most part. I found it doesn't do much against the problem decks (Affinity), so I think it should stay in the SB. On a similar note, should any build of this deck run Meddling? It would help against the often annoying and game ending Extirpate.
For a counter war o would highly recommend Spell Snare, it is also a non-waste slot as it can counter a lot of troublesome stuff.
I really love this deck it works great against alot of things, aggro, other combo, ect. I just wanted to try to smooth out the manabase since this will still be a viable deck post rotation, but with no fetches.
Do we run enough artifaces here for a glimmervoid? It might be risky, but i have never found myself in a game without artifacts on the table and with explosives it is awsome.
That might sound funny but... I don´t like the Cryptics. At least not in this deck. I think a 3rd Repeal is much better since you run enough counters and a repeal often is better than a cryptic. It´s too expensive (mana), too. You want to produce tokens with your Mana.
Also I would play more discard. Maybe 3 Duress and 1 Repeal for 2 Cryptics and 2 Mox? I think that´s the way I will go, since I don´t like the Mox.
I see your point, in pre-rotation i didn't run any Cryptic Command, generally Repeal was better as game staller. Turns out that, as i expected, the meta is very slower without fetches and with that Cryptic Command is better than Repeal in late game, you have to agree with me on that right?
I would run even more discard in the SB, not MD for me tho, this Thoughtseizes are usually a very nice topdeck because they are ocasional and unexpected.
I look at this and want to add cranial plating and/or arcbound ravager... also doesn't almost all of the affinity hate mess with this deck too? not as hard but still annoyingly so
I look at this and want to add cranial plating and/or arcbound ravager... also doesn't almost all of the affinity hate mess with this deck too? not as hard but still annoyingly so
Adding those takes away from the combo elements - you want to assemble the pieces of the engine, not tear it apart with unituitive aggro cards.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
so basically its control and once you get the combo use extra mana for it? would running 2 fabricates be considered bad? it is a little slow but it tutors up what you need...
so basically its control and once you get the combo use extra mana for it? would running 2 fabricates be considered bad? it is a little slow but it tutors up what you need...
That card is fairly solid, but I prefer Muddle the Mixture, because it is great in any counter wars that come up, and can search for every piece of the combo, except the Ironworks, which I view as a "win more" card.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
That card is fairly solid, but I prefer Muddle the Mixture, because it is great in any counter wars that come up, and can search for every piece of the combo, except the Ironworks, which I view as a "win more" card.
I completely forgot about that... dang that is so much better lol
i don't see fabricate in the deck, i'd rather have tfk.
muddle is without no doubt the best card in the deck after foundry and sword.
i don't see kci as a "win more" card, most times foundry+sword isn't enough to put enough pressure, i see the combo as foundry+sword+kci/time seive, whenever u got kci+sword+foundry most player scoop unless they've hit u withh stigma lasher (never happend to me, just saying) or they can deal 100000 dmg or decku.
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"I feel like I just attacked with everything, and it's too late to take it back."
- Chris Pikula, shortly after getting married on December 29th, 2001.
I took this deck to a small torunament yesterday, and I did OK. I ended up 2-1-1 (but because of a misunderstanding that didn't get fixed in time, one of my wins was counted as a tie, so according to DCIReporter, I was 1-1-2), but was playing with some subpar choices:
Most of my weird choices come from my low budget and my unability to find any copies of Muddle the Mixture (other than the one I already had) to replace Fabricate, among many other cards. Still, I did quite well, thwarting most of my opponents' sideboard choices (Hurkyl's Recall and Shatterstorm, since my store's meta is full of Affinity) with counterspells. I even beat a WUr control deck's counterwall with my own plus Duress and Thoughtseize (I run 3 of the former and 2 of the latter in the main deck because two Seizes is all I could get my hands on), and Affinity had problems racing me when I could drop chump-blockers forever while finding my combo cards, gaining life and countering/discarding their buisness spells.
All in all, I'm very happy with the deck, as I would've actually won something had my win not been recorded as a tie. My sideboard was clunky, but it was still useful. Needles saved me from a Mirror Entity combo, Anull stopped way too many of affinity's Ravagers, Master of Etherium and Cranial Platings, and the extra combo parts gave me some consistency when I had to go for the combo ASAP (I only run one of each on the main deck).
I'll try to get my hands on some replacement cards, but so far the deck looks promising.
i don't see fabricate in the deck, i'd rather have tfk.
muddle is without no doubt the best card in the deck after foundry and sword.
i don't see kci as a "win more" card, most times foundry+sword isn't enough to put enough pressure, i see the combo as foundry+sword+kci/time seive, whenever u got kci+sword+foundry most player scoop unless they've hit u withh stigma lasher (never happend to me, just saying) or they can deal 100000 dmg or decku.
Most of the time infinite turns is enough to win (Foundry, Sieve, Sword). I understand why having KCI in is good (instant win) but I would rather have that slot taken by another counter spell or Thoughtseize than an inconsistent win condition.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Most of the time infinite turns is enough to win (Foundry, Sieve, Sword). I understand why having KCI in is good (instant win) but I would rather have that slot taken by another counter spell or Thoughtseize than an inconsistent win condition.
agreed, I never liked KCI in this deck.
Also is sign in blood to black intensive for this deck? Is cumpulsive better because it digs one deeper for one more mana?
as i was writing that I felt stupid cause I now know compulsive is better for this deck.
Also is sign in blood to black intensive for this deck? Is cumpulsive better because it digs one deeper for one more mana?
as i was writing that I felt stupid cause I now know compulsive is better for this deck.
Compulsive Research is a lot WORSE than most of the cards in the deck. The Sign In Blood sounds like it has promise though - two cards for no loss. Another card that might work - Perilous Research.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
It seems that the best draw for this deck would be:
Thirst for Knowlege
Careful Consideration
Both of these cards are powerhouses for the amount of cards you draw and they are instants so you can play them at the end of your opponent's turn. I think that compulsive research is just not as powerful although still a decent card.
As you can see i probably don't need the lotus bloom and I could probably switch a few cards out. Should I seriously consider boomerang as a viable permanant removal option?
If i would add more draws engine (and i am not saying that i would do that), i would prefer one that sticks in the board like Jace Beleren or Phyrexian Arena.
I was trying to say that his point about going white to have more answers to Pithing Needle and Kataki, War's Wage was not good enough, Engineered Explosives are all you need and can do much more.
You can do all of this at instant speed, just thought I'd point that out. Of course, because of the M10 rulings, your opponents dude would live through it, but at least you would be safe.
I'm not nessacarily trying to defend my point. Just I don't yet have the Time Seives, but I still win every game that I play with this deck. The card advantage that you get through Sword and Foundry is just amazing. I played abainst a very good EDH deck with my thropter deck and still decked him. Grinding station is definately a decent alternative route if you don't have the time seives.
Oh, and I know that you all have already talked about Cranial Plating and decided that the deck doesn't need it, but Ive found that it has saved my ass multiple time. Esp. with the ability to pop it on at instant speed. And the white version cant run time seives, bo you might want to think about the plating in it.
What about Reshape and Lotus Bloom? Makes more tokens faster. Just options.
About Mindslaver rulings:
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Trash for Treasure
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Chrome Mox
2 Time Sieve
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Fabricate
1 Sundering Titan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Mindslaver
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Dimir Signet
4 Watery Grave
4 Steam Vents
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Academy Ruins
1 Great Furnace
4 Island
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Why would you want to put Canonist MD?
I didn't see any situation during my tests that i would want it in my deck.
Currently Playing: Modern
UBR Affinity
UR Storm
Standard:
UR Burning Control
G Primal Surge
Casual:
UR Dragonstorm
If you're ever in the SoCal San Gabriel Valley area, shoot me an email, my username @ gmail.com....
Just testing it as a brick wall against other counter decks. Forces them to play in substandard form for the the most part. I found it doesn't do much against the problem decks (Affinity), so I think it should stay in the SB. On a similar note, should any build of this deck run Meddling? It would help against the often annoying and game ending Extirpate.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
For a counter war o would highly recommend Spell Snare, it is also a non-waste slot as it can counter a lot of troublesome stuff.
...
And the list goes on.
Do we run enough artifaces here for a glimmervoid? It might be risky, but i have never found myself in a game without artifacts on the table and with explosives it is awsome.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
I see your point, in pre-rotation i didn't run any Cryptic Command, generally Repeal was better as game staller. Turns out that, as i expected, the meta is very slower without fetches and with that Cryptic Command is better than Repeal in late game, you have to agree with me on that right?
I would run even more discard in the SB, not MD for me tho, this Thoughtseizes are usually a very nice topdeck because they are ocasional and unexpected.
Adding those takes away from the combo elements - you want to assemble the pieces of the engine, not tear it apart with unituitive aggro cards.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
That card is fairly solid, but I prefer Muddle the Mixture, because it is great in any counter wars that come up, and can search for every piece of the combo, except the Ironworks, which I view as a "win more" card.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I completely forgot about that... dang that is so much better lol
muddle is without no doubt the best card in the deck after foundry and sword.
i don't see kci as a "win more" card, most times foundry+sword isn't enough to put enough pressure, i see the combo as foundry+sword+kci/time seive, whenever u got kci+sword+foundry most player scoop unless they've hit u withh stigma lasher (never happend to me, just saying) or they can deal 100000 dmg or decku.
- Chris Pikula, shortly after getting married on December 29th, 2001.
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Underground River
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 Island
10 Swamp
Artifacts
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Time Sieve
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Remand
4 Rune Snag
2 Mana Leak
2 Echoing Truth
1 Muddle the Mixture
2 Cryptic Command
1 Repeal
Sorceries
2 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
2 Compulsive Research
3 Fabricate
2 Pithing Needle
4 Anull
2 Darkblast
3 Flashfreeze
1 Time Sieve
1 Exhaustion
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Damnation
Most of my weird choices come from my low budget and my unability to find any copies of Muddle the Mixture (other than the one I already had) to replace Fabricate, among many other cards. Still, I did quite well, thwarting most of my opponents' sideboard choices (Hurkyl's Recall and Shatterstorm, since my store's meta is full of Affinity) with counterspells. I even beat a WUr control deck's counterwall with my own plus Duress and Thoughtseize (I run 3 of the former and 2 of the latter in the main deck because two Seizes is all I could get my hands on), and Affinity had problems racing me when I could drop chump-blockers forever while finding my combo cards, gaining life and countering/discarding their buisness spells.
All in all, I'm very happy with the deck, as I would've actually won something had my win not been recorded as a tie. My sideboard was clunky, but it was still useful. Needles saved me from a Mirror Entity combo, Anull stopped way too many of affinity's Ravagers, Master of Etherium and Cranial Platings, and the extra combo parts gave me some consistency when I had to go for the combo ASAP (I only run one of each on the main deck).
I'll try to get my hands on some replacement cards, but so far the deck looks promising.
Most of the time infinite turns is enough to win (Foundry, Sieve, Sword). I understand why having KCI in is good (instant win) but I would rather have that slot taken by another counter spell or Thoughtseize than an inconsistent win condition.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
agreed, I never liked KCI in this deck.
Also is sign in blood to black intensive for this deck? Is cumpulsive better because it digs one deeper for one more mana?
as i was writing that I felt stupid cause I now know compulsive is better for this deck.
Thanks Darth Monkey
Compulsive Research is a lot WORSE than most of the cards in the deck. The Sign In Blood sounds like it has promise though - two cards for no loss. Another card that might work - Perilous Research.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
Rage quit reason of the moment:
Thirst for Knowlege
Careful Consideration
Both of these cards are powerhouses for the amount of cards you draw and they are instants so you can play them at the end of your opponent's turn. I think that compulsive research is just not as powerful although still a decent card.
Here is what I have currently:
3x Lotus Bloom
3x Chrome Mox
4x Sword of the Meek
4x Thopter Foundry
2x Time Sieve
Instants
4x Condescend
4x Repeal
4x Remand
4x Muddle the Mixture
4x Thirst for Knowlege
3x Careful Consideration
2x Academy Ruins
4x River of Tears
2x Watery Grave
4x Underground River
4x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
3x Island
1x Swamp
As you can see i probably don't need the lotus bloom and I could probably switch a few cards out. Should I seriously consider boomerang as a viable permanant removal option?
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
the deck needs card draw to achieve the combo, not after the combo is settled.
and about card draw, nothing beats TfK here. Discarding Meek is always welcome, a win-win situation.
My old nickname was lockheart87.
If i would add more draws engine (and i am not saying that i would do that), i would prefer one that sticks in the board like Jace Beleren or Phyrexian Arena.