So all of you know this deck by now, took 2nd in LA piloted by Matt Laurents. I just thought I'd post it so that people would have a place to discuss ideas to make the deck better, testing results, etc.
I have recently switched to a build similar to this from my ErayoNinja.dec plan. It seems janky at first, but is powerful in a crazy sort of way. I got a lot of my ideas from Matt Laurent's deck obviously, but I am trying to tune it to my liking/meta.
I have tested it so far against Gifts Rock, Deathcloud, NLB/Chase Rare, Zoo, Tooth and Nail, Enduring Ideal, Dredge, Heartbeat, NoobStax and a few different mono-black builds (piloted by the one and only Benzo Stanbury, where Benzo Reanimator got it's name - and no, I still can't get him to play anything but mono black.)
Mutavault:
This thing should be a four-of and synergizes with the whole deck. You can ninjitsu off it, it is a faerie for Spellstutter Sprite, it is a wizard for Riptide Laboratory, it is a ninja for Shuriken and it gives you board position for Standstill.
The "One-of" lands:
Basically they are two-ofs since you run a copy of Tolaria West to grab whichever one you need. Since I am running Engineered Explosives and I occasionally want to set it to 2, I use one copy of Tree of Tales. I don't know if I like it or not yet, but in testing it seems fine and doesn't screw up my mana. Riptide Laboratory is very, very good, and I had 2 copies in for a while until I switched Faerie Conclaves for Mutavault and I felt I needed more colored sources (hence why I am not running Swarmyard as well.) The Seat of the Synod is just incase I need to fetch a blue source with a Trinket Mage and the Academy Ruins I like maindeck over Swarmyard or Pendelhaven. I may actually put in a copy of Pendelhaven, perhaps in the Tree of Tales slot, but I haven't decided yet.
The Moxen:
I have been struggling with the moxen decision for a while now. On one hand it can make for some really cool turn one plays like: Mutavault, Chrome Mox, Ornithopter, Standstillwith a ninja in the grip. It can also help a ton when I am swinging with Ninja of the Deep Hours and popping Standstill left and right for huge card advantage. If I have 9 cards in my hand, I can drop a Mox or two and play sometimes 2 more spells than I could without it - which can really put a lot of pressure on. On the other hand, sometimes I am sitting on a hand with a lot of artifacts and a mox I really don't want to use because it will take my only blue card. I have to test it a lot more before I decide.
The Creatures:
The major differences from Matt's version is the switching of the numbers of Venser, Shaper Savant and Trinket Mage. I found using three Vensers clogged my hand a lot. Trinket Mage is almost NEVER a dead card. Of course I am running a couple more artifacts than he did main. The other difference is, I am trying out a couple of Higure, the Still Wind. He may seem janky at first but, let me tell you, this guy is a HOUSE AND A HALF if he comes down. With the Moxen I have dropped him as early as turn two. He can't be hit by Smother and he laughs at early Pernicious Deed and Engineered Explosives. Threads of Disloyalty can't touch him, AND he can be unblockable and make your team unblockable with enough mana. He also beats Lightning Helix and Incinerate, forcing Zoo to either have to Tribal Flames or two-for-one it. If I draw two of them I just ditch one under a mox. If I am afraid he will die after his first hit, I just grab the second one with his ability, drop him again, and proceed to grab whatever ninja I happen to need at the time. The rest of the creature base seems golden.
The other stuff: Standstill is obviously solid gold. Some people pop this left and right. Other people will try to play around it, or even let me time walk a couple times, hitting them with ninjas and Mutavault and when they realize they need to pop it, its just too late. Umezawa's Jitte is obviously another card that screams "DEAL WITH ME OR DIE!". Pithing Needle of course shuts down so many cards it is an auto-include. Shuriken is infinite removal for weenies, which is necessary for this deck. Engineered Explosives helps a lot of situations, it is almost always set to one, but sometimes set to zero or two. It is narrow, but helps a lot against Zoo, ElfAlarm and a little against Goblins. Aether Spellbomb has been absolutely insane, especially late game. Recurring it off the Academy Ruins is game for a lot of decks, especially if you are hitting them with ninjas at the same time.
Sideboard:
Stifle is necessary against TEPS. You can also gain a lot of tempo against decks with fetchlands by stifling their turn 1 fetchland. I almost want to maindeck these things. They can stop Pernicious Deed, Ravenous Baloth and loads of other stuff that hurts you. Threads of Disloyalty really helps your Zoo matchup. It can also help against NLB/Chase Rare and anything that runs Dark Confidant or Tarmogoyf. By the way, Threads of Disloyalty on a Bob, despite the fact that I run 4 and 5 cost stuff = game unless they deal with it. Meekstone is good against Tarmogoyf, Countryside Crusher, Terravore, Myr Enforcer etc. I almost want to maindeck it. The extra Engineered Explosives and Tormod's Crypts are mostly there for Dredge, and the explosives double for decks with a lot of 1 drops (Zoo).
- Tested Matchups -
Gifts Rock:
I have yet to be beaten by Gifts Rock. My old 3-color Ninja/Erayo build semeed to have about a 60/40 game against GiftsRock, this thing seems to have an 80/20, though in many games, I never lost, it came close, so I think with bad luck/mulls, gifts rock should pull out some games, but I did mull to 5 one game against it and still won so, I don't know.
Deathcloud:
Deathcloud hasn't beaten this thing either, it seems to just edge out everything they are trying to do. The Loxodon Hierarch version seems to do a little better than the non-white version, since when I bounce their hierarchs to hit them, they get to gain lots of life. Seems too slow to do much, however, again, with a good draw, who knows?
NLB/Chase Rare:
I have tested this match with a couple different builds of each of the decks. It seems to be a favorable matchup for ninjas. The only thing they can really hope to do is get shackles down early and often. Counterbalance doesn't really hurt this deck, its more of like an annoyance. As long as you can keep dropping ninjas left and right, they eventually can't deal with it. Versus shackles, you can often tap the guy they steal to Mothdust Changeling and manage to hit them with a shinobi and bounce the thing back, that way you can juggle ninjas and beat at least one (and I've seen even two) shackles. There isn't much they can threads either (just your mothdusts, ornithopters and spellstutters) and you can e the same trick there and it is bye bye threads. You can also use Echoing Truth if you maindeck it to pull cool EoT truth their shackles sort of stuff and SFTW.
Tooth and Nail:
Tooth is a really sad matchup. This is regular old tooth, not Rock and Nail or Tooth with splash white or red for creature kill. Surprisingly some people still play this and apparently I have heard people still show up at PTQs and stuff with it (maybe because of Scapeshift? I dunno) so I tested against it since someone in my area has it. Basically they just sit there and try to set up while you pound them with ninjas. Trinket Mage for needle on their top sucks for them. Countering Scapeshift with Spellstutter Sprite is funny, and repeatedly Vensering their Tooth and Nail sucks for them. The only hope I think they have is resolving a Mindslaver and getting to use it (if I fear that I just needle it). Not sure what they can do here.
Enduring Ideal:
Same thing as Tooth and Nail but faster and they have Pyroclasm. I generally Spellstutter their Burning Wishand Pyroclasms, unless they have the Boseiju. Recurring Vensers is really hot here, since their Boseiju is no good there. Even if they resolve the Ideal, what do they grab? Solitary Confinement? Bounced and SFTW. Form of the Dragon? I have flyers, and bounced/SFTW. Again, not much they can do here. This is where I advocate AT LEAST one Aether Spellbomb to grab with the Trinket Mages, if not more in the board, the spellbomb is the nuts. Spellbomb+Academy Ruins = Game against Ideal usually.
Zoo:
Zoo hurts. Zoo is not pleasant. Zoo is our worst matchup I believe. They have burn for our Ninjas and Ninja enablers. They have cheap, fast critters that can block our ninjas. This is where I advocate at least one Engineered Explosives maindeck to grab with Trinket. Kird Apes are hard to take out otherwise. Shuriken can kill everything else, except 'Goyf usually. My solution for 'Goyf is either recurring Tormod's Crypt or just bouncing it repeatedly. They have no flyers which helps, but all the burn hurts our critters.
Dredge:
Well, there's not a lot any deck can do to stop the turn two super Dredge nuttiness, so I have lost some game ones to that. If you can get a quick Trinket Mage down for either a Tormod's Crypt or an Engineered Explosives set at 0 you can do alright. Post board you bring in more crypts and explosives. Matt's build ran Echoing Truthmaindeck, I think those might be a good call if you expect a lot of dredge. He also ran a copy of Tolaria West, which can grab Crypt. Anyway, pre-board it has about the same odds as most decks that pack Trinket Mage. Post board with 8 cards you can slow them down with by first/second turn, you are okay.
Heartbeat:
I have not lost a game against Heartbeat either. This deck seems to be well designed to hose control and combo. Spellstutter Sprite on their Moment's Peace hurts them. Vensering a key Heartbeat of Spring or Early Harvest stops them a lot of the time. Post board the Stifle action completely stops them from going off.
NoobStax:
This can hurt if you don't get some quick zero and one drops down. Trinisphere stops your spells, but not your ninjas. Suppression Field hurts a lot though, and Root Maze slows the deck down a ton. I only tested this one a couple games and I won them both, but it was not a totally optimal build. I will be doing more testing against this deck soon.
Mono Black builds:
If you're facing Mono-Black control with Thoughtseize and Damnation main deck, you could have some problems. A first turn Thoughtseize can hurt a lot. A first turn Thoughtseize followed by a fourth turn Damnation that you can't counter can be game. The good thing here is, if they don't get Damnation right off the bat, and/or they don't get Thoughtseize right off the bat, you get so much card advantage they don't really matter. Smother hurts our ninja enablers, but thanfully not our most potent ninja - Ninja of the Deep Hours. This matchup seems to be 60/40 in our favor, and there shouldn't be much mono-black control around.
Stuff I haven't tested:
Most control decks seem to roll to this, most aggro decks seem to have at least a decent matchup. Aggroish decks that swarm do better than those that rely on fatties (aggro loam drops countryside crusher, crusher gets big...crusher gets bounced, etc.). Anything with burn hurts a lot, I haven't tested against that mono-red burn deck that has been around, but I will be before this weekend's PTQ. I assume if they waste time burning your creatures there though, you will edge them out, and if they burn your face, you may have enough spellstutters and Vensers to stop the lethalness long enough to kill them. May need some kind of sideboard against them, god I wish Ivory Tower was in extended. Affinity seems tough, I will be testing against it this week more. I think between bounce, Shuriken, Meekstoneand holding back sprites and Vensers to hold off their Shrapnel Blasts, it could be okay.
Summary:
It seems to have a good/fair matchup against a lot of decks. If you are expecting a lot of Zoo, I wouldn't play this (play Deathcloud instead!). I need to play around with the maindeck and sideboard a lot more after I test it more. I am going to be bringing this deck to the PTQ in Brighton Massachusetts next weekend, so I will be playtesting it a lot this Wednesday and Friday. I will post some more results before the PTQ, and hopefully some good results after next weekend.
Regards,
Hazur
(PS: SUGGESTIONS would be great! I am hardly new to this deck but I miss things all the time, so any constructive suggestions would be welcome. Please no "cut these 9 cards for these 9 cards" with no reasons for doing so posts. Also, someone tell me whether or not I should be playing moxes, it is wracking my brain!)
Just look at affinity for a demonstration of the potential power of Springleaf Drum.
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My decks
Standard: GWU Bant Control GRB Jund Ramp GW Overrun
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In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
Just look at affinity for a demonstration of the potential power of Springleaf Drum.
Oh no springleaf drum in affinity= nuts. That's because it's an artifact so in affinity it will count as 2 mana and pumping out insane plays like an opening of ornithopter, land, drum, drum, frogmite, frogmite, myr enforcer. It's nuts because it counts as 2 mana that they can play multiples of in a turn, as well as sac fodder for arcbound ravager and an extra +1 from plating.
I'm working on a board for this deck, and would like some suggestions. Threads & Crypts are going in for sure, and I think an Engineered Explosives is as well(not sure if I'm going to run one main or not). So I guess the problem is that it doesn't leave many slots.
What can this deck do for Goblins? I would think that's probably one of the hardest matchups, maybe harder than Zoo(since against zoo you can use Explosives for 1 to wipe out a bunch of stuff), and I'm coming up blank.
My first thought was splash black for Engineered Plague but that doesn't work at all with the changelings in this deck. My next thought was to try Tsabo's Decree but I think that is probably way too slow.
I was also thinking that Divert would probably be very good against Zoo, RDW, & also mono red Burn. I know the original list played it in the board as a one of, but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be a 2-3 of instead.
How is Hurkyl's Recall? Good enough against Affinity to have a place in the board, or is it not worth the slot?
I'm working on a board for this deck, and would like some suggestions. Threads & Crypts are going in for sure, and I think an Engineered Explosives is as well(not sure if I'm going to run one main or not). So I guess the problem is that it doesn't leave many slots.
What can this deck do for Goblins? I would think that's probably one of the hardest matchups, maybe harder than Zoo(since against zoo you can use Explosives for 1 to wipe out a bunch of stuff), and I'm coming up blank.
My first thought was splash black for Engineered Plague but that doesn't work at all with the changelings in this deck. My next thought was to try Tsabo's Decree but I think that is probably way too slow.
I was also thinking that Divert would probably be very good against Zoo, RDW, & also mono red Burn. I know the original list played it in the board as a one of, but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be a 2-3 of instead.
How is Hurkyl's Recall? Good enough against Affinity to have a place in the board, or is it not worth the slot?
Decree is way way too slow against goblins. I have to agree that goblins, is one tough match. In testing I have found that threads of disloyalty out of the board can make a game against goblins, but then again they can just roll over us too. Jitte was the MVP against goblins and I've been considering making room for 1 more side. I'm really not sure if that would do it though. It's a tough match
Recall is a good side if you expect to see a lot of affinity. The deck has enough bounce main to where you can manage without, but recall improves your odds quite a bit. When I tested against affinity it was a tough match, but win-able. I would go so far as to say it's a far better match then goblins, so unless you expect a lot of it I wouldn't use the SB slot, and even better would be to splash white for Kataki, especially if you are already planning on playing engineered explosives.
Also, to give you another perspective here's the side from Felipe Saavedra's ninja deck in Vienna
Sideboard:
I'm working on a board for this deck, and would like some suggestions. Threads & Crypts are going in for sure, and I think an Engineered Explosives is as well(not sure if I'm going to run one main or not). So I guess the problem is that it doesn't leave many slots.
What can this deck do for Goblins? I would think that's probably one of the hardest matchups, maybe harder than Zoo(since against zoo you can use Explosives for 1 to wipe out a bunch of stuff), and I'm coming up blank.
My first thought was splash black for Engineered Plague but that doesn't work at all with the changelings in this deck. My next thought was to try Tsabo's Decree but I think that is probably way too slow.
I was also thinking that Divert would probably be very good against Zoo, RDW, & also mono red Burn. I know the original list played it in the board as a one of, but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be a 2-3 of instead.
How is Hurkyl's Recall? Good enough against Affinity to have a place in the board, or is it not worth the slot?
Hello,
Our aggro matches are tough and I've found out there's not enough you can really do to change it without slicing up the deck. Burn is what hurts more than anything. Affinity is the LEAST of your worries. If you do expect a lot of affinity, Hurkyl's Recall is generally your best bet. Personally I am not going to bother with specific aggro matches too much, because they all suck. Stifle is 100% necessary right now. The goblin matchup sucks unless you drop an early Jitte. You can maybe snag some more SB slots if you go down to 3 ofs:
I would go with Sun Droplet over the Hurkyl's Recall...burn really really hurts this deck. I'm already running a Tormod's Crypt and an Engineered Explosives main so, the 3x there don't matter to me. Engineered Explosives really helps our MU's against RDW and Domain Zoo decks with a lot of 1 drops. Along with Academy Ruins you can really shut them down. Problem I have is all the burn burn burn burn burn.
Our aggro matches are tough and I've found out there's not enough you can really do to change it without slicing up the deck. Burn is what hurts more than anything. Affinity is the LEAST of your worries. If you do expect a lot of affinity, Hurkyl's Recall is generally your best bet. Personally I am not going to bother with specific aggro matches too much, because they all suck. Stifle is 100% necessary right now. The goblin matchup sucks unless you drop an early Jitte. You can maybe snag some more SB slots if you go down to 3 ofs:
I would go with Sun Droplet over the Hurkyl's Recall...burn really really hurts this deck. I'm already running a Tormod's Crypt and an Engineered Explosives main so, the 3x there don't matter to me. Engineered Explosives really helps our MU's against RDW and Domain Zoo decks with a lot of 1 drops. Along with Academy Ruins you can really shut them down. Problem I have is all the burn burn burn burn burn.
Regards,
Hazur
You said it man
I think Hazur is right to play academy ruins and explosives main. The aggro match is pretty bad, especially game 1 you pretty much have to get lucky and draw tons of bounce and explosives. I recently went to 2 venser and 3 trinket mage just to improve my chances game 1, haven't had time to see if it makes a difference yet though. Als in the side I went up to 4 Sun Droplet to help against burn and I cut 1 tormod's crypt since I have 1 main + 3 trinket mage and 2 side. I'll have to see how it goes.
I'll be playing some version of this deck on Saturday on my first ever GPT. It'll also be my first ever Extended tournament, so I'm not looking for a very good result as much as I am looking to have fun and learn stuff about this environment. The version I'll be playing will depend mostly on the cards I manage to get until then
Congrats and Good Luck! You will have to tell us how it goes. My shop held an extended night over the weekend and I saw another version recently with Sower of Temptation side instead of Threads of disloyalty, seemed to have some synergy with the deck, although most decks have a way to deal with a 2/2 flyer. Also it dropped some cards (not sure which sorry) to add counterspell. It seemed to do very well against NLU & Ideal. The dude only had one loss to RDW (although the loss was a blowout) then left. so out of 4 games he 3-1. (1 win against Jank, 1 NLU, 1 Ideal, 1 loss RDW)
Congrats and Good Luck! You will have to tell us how it goes. My shop held an extended night over the weekend and I saw another version recently with Sower of Temptation side instead of Threads of disloyalty, seemed to have some synergy with the deck, although most decks have a way to deal with a 2/2 flyer. Also it dropped some cards (not sure which sorry) to add counterspell. It seemed to do very well against NLU & Ideal. The dude only had one loss to RDW (although the loss was a blowout) then left. so out of 4 games he 3-1. (1 win against Jank, 1 NLU, 1 Ideal, 1 loss RDW)
Hey,
LOL thanks for giving away the secret tech. Try some Sowers in the main deck, they are nuts against most forms of aggro. Even if you make them waste burn on it, you still get their best creature for at least a turn mid-late game. RDW and Burn are completely useless, but I have been able to take 2/3 from domain zoo PRE-board with Sowers main deck. I am maining at least 2 copies of Sower and siding 4 Threads. Aggro hurts...real bad.
Ouch, sorry to hear about such a bad showing. I disagree about the engineered explosives, I have loved them in the deck. I agree with shuriken although cool, it never has won me a game. Also, Sun droplet in my testing sucks unless you side in 4, multiples are key with that card.
I tried running this deck in a PTQ in Brighton, MA. The problem I ran across was it doesn't beat jank decks very well. Round one I played some guy who was playing some weird green/white anti-aggro primal command/eladamri's call/lifegain thing and we drew. Round 2 I played against dredge and drew again. At that point I was like "okay, I can go 5-0 from here on out!". So the next round I ran into Slide of all things - not the best matchup unless you get under their skin real fast and don't let them resolve astral slide. I actually let the guy get astral slide on the board but I had so many Vensers for his wraths that I overwhelmed him games 2 and 3. Round 4 I played against Ideal and lost because I could not get 4 lands and a Venser in any of the games, very disappointing. I decided to drop after that because I could not top 8. So I ended up 1-1-2 - the 2 draws would have been wins if I had been able to kill faster. The problem with this deck in actual events is the time constraint. If you run into any kind of lifegain or massive wrath affects, you will have trouble not drawing if you don't win your first two games. I think I am done with ninjas on a PTQ+ level - I may still play it at local tournies though.
Sorry to hear about so many negative stories. However this deck just won aPTQ in Mantova, Italy. 1st, piloted by Paolo Bergamaschi attendance was 220, looks like it beat TEPS in the finals. Here is his Decklist
One very key point to this deck is that it plays Meekstone main, which all around seems like a good idea.
I have had very good experience with this deck, however my local grand prix looks like it will not be extended So I am stuck waiting for extended nights at my local shop.
How does this version fight against Mono Red burn? Maybe that deck isn't as popular in big tourneys where people have the cards they need, but around here, where most people build half their decks at the last moment, that deck was largely present. It isn't the worst matchup ever (Spellstutter Sprites are broken against that deck), but it's not exactly easy either. I got 2 Illusions of Mediocrity today for the SB.
I think that illusions of mediocrity is an awesome side if you expect a lot of mono red burn. Really I think it's a meta call. I have noticed that divert is also handy against burn:
Opponent: Sac an artifact land to shrapnel blast you
Ninja-player: divert to your head
Opponent: that sucks.
Ninja-player: Pretty much yeah.
@ mistercakes
Yeah -1 venser can suck bad, but I know I've had games with 2 venser's stuck in my hand especially with riptide lab, I still think the better would be -1 venser +1 trinket mage. Also, Leonin Bola is so very useful, nice find.
Thought I'd keep you all updated, The ninja deck made another top 8 showing in Honolulu, piloted to 6th by Michael Ching out of I think 50(?) participants this time running a fairly different version:
I am going back to the more traditional build. I've found out that Chrome Mox is bad times. I've also found out that Echoing Truth would have been good to have in a lot of games. I am going with something close to the build that has won with a different SB. Here are my SB choices:
I think Divert is really the best plan. Zoo has been a problem for me, and if they tap out for removal (better yet, tribal flames) I can just ship it to one of their critters. Mono red burn also takes a huge hit from Divert. Hurkyl's Recall is good for Affinity, NLU and even some combo decks (I have recalled double Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom during someone's upkeep FTW.). Stifle is obviously great against a lot of decks, I even tried MDing it for a while. Threads is looking worse and worse the more I test it.
Hi Patrick. It's surprising to hear that you went 1-1-2, since the deck is so strong, and I was in the car with you. You don't like Chrome Mox? It seemed so awesome to turn 1 landstill :/
Over at the Zoo the animals and I feel bad for the ninjas and kunoichi about to get left out in the cold. I don't think you should give up on the deck. I don't suppose a Green splash would convolute things too much? Well I look forward to testing out any new builds.
Agreed, but I think we really need something other than Recall to fight RAffinity. Usually, they will just dump everything on the board again on the very next turn (land, drum, thopter, 1/1 dude, frogmite, frogmite, frogmite, enforcer - happened to me). Countering that thopter is crucial, I think. Also, Needle on Plating makes this winable. Annul? :/
Hello,
The thing about it is, you need to keep yourself in the game the whole time. You will draw lots and lots of cards. Recall isn't a blowout play, its a tempo play. They might be able to dump their hand again, or most of it, but its like a Timewalk (I hear that card is good.) and a half. Needle on plating is a very good play, and if they don't use Pyrite Spellbomb, Sower of Temptation can help a bit. Another thing that can really help is Meekstone maindeck. All their Enforcers won't untap, and neither will big ravagers or guys with hats on. If you can needle their hat and drop a Meekstone, you are in good shape. Alternatively, you can blow up most of their lands and Ornithopters with Engineered Explosives for 0. Divert can also help this one, shipping a "game winning" Shrapnel Blast at an Enforcer, Ravager, or their face can really turn the tide. If they are playing the Fatal Frenzy build, you can also ship the Frenzy off to a harmless Ornithopter or something. I think one of the worst parts is their Ornithopters being able to block our ninja enablers all day long. Echoing Truth can help a little here too. I've actually also Stifled a Ravager sacing to itself to be put on a Blinkmoth Nexus for the win. Its not a FAVORABLE matchup at all, but it is winable, and I don't think Affinity is around in force right now. Just play very tight.
Looks like he used Trickbinds because he didn't have Stifles (at least that's what I assume). I tried Stifle main deck for a while and it is great in a fetchland-rich format. Shadow of Doubt basically does the same thing, pwns fetchlands, as well as several other search affects (helps against combo). I don't feel that Threads should be maindeck, would rather use Sower of Temptation at that rate. I thought about Ghost Quarter for a while, but I was using too many other cool lands to make the switch. The Nevermaker seems slow but kind of cool, can almost be like a super-Venser in some situations (swing with it, ninjitsu in a mistblade shinobi, evoke it, bounce 3 things in 1 turn.) I don't know if I agree with Ornithopter in the sideboard and no Mothdust Changeling, but I guess he just hopes to get Chrome Mox a lot. Looks like more of a combo killer with board for aggro.
Looks like Jacob developed the deck, and has been playing it since Lorwyn came out. Even though it started as Ninja Affinity with Brass Gnat...
And you need no evoking Nevermaker, because his triggered ability triggers at the time of leaving play...
Hello,
When someone develops a deck and it gets posted on the forums, people analyze their card choices and critique their deck.
And in many situations you WOULD evoke Nevermaker because it would turn the tide very quickly on many situations - turn 3 or 4, drop Nevermaker, bounce a permanent, turn 4 or 5, swing with Nevermaker, ninjitsu shinobi, bounce another permanent, bounce a creature with shinobi, then bounce another permanent with the nevermaker with an evoke. That is 4 permanents over two turns, which could cripple a lot of decks. Yes, you could obviously re-play it if you didn't need that kind of board position, but I assume it happens fairly often from my experience playing a similar deck a lot.
I believe I can read...
Nevermaker's triggered ability is a "leaves play" one, so once you ninjutsu something in, he puts something on top of library. And not when he comes in play AND leaves play, as your post suggests. It's either that your post is wrong or I misread Nevermaker.
Hello,
My first post was correct, my second post was actually wrong. Evoke causes the creature to leave play, so therefore, Nevermaker being Shinobi'd then Evoke'd = 3 permanents, counting the shinobi's ability. But you do not get the first permanent for playing it, so I did mis-post the second time.
nevermaker seems too slow. the flying is nice, but 4 mana for a 2/3? i'm sure there's something better in extended than that guy, even with his ability.
and tapping out after an attack to evoke a guy? that seems like a very boomerang. maybe i'm wrong! haven't tested.
I gotta agree, just seems too slow, I would actually rather play a riftwing cloudskate then that guy... and even then it's not a choice I would make. Although I haven't tested it either, but I will now to see.
Nevermaker is not necessary, nor is Riftwing. The order of bounce to run starts with Venser, then goes to Mistblade Shinobi, and finally Echoing Truth.
Regards,
Hazur
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4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Ornithopter
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Trinket Mage
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
instant [4]
4 Echoing Truth
enchantment [4]
4 Standstill
artifact [5]
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shuriken
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Faerie Conclave
11 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swarmyard
1 Tolaria West
1 Divert
4 Stifle
4 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Meekstone
1 Shuriken
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Academy Ruins
I have recently switched to a build similar to this from my ErayoNinja.dec plan. It seems janky at first, but is powerful in a crazy sort of way. I got a lot of my ideas from Matt Laurent's deck obviously, but I am trying to tune it to my liking/meta.
I have tested it so far against Gifts Rock, Deathcloud, NLB/Chase Rare, Zoo, Tooth and Nail, Enduring Ideal, Dredge, Heartbeat, NoobStax and a few different mono-black builds (piloted by the one and only Benzo Stanbury, where Benzo Reanimator got it's name - and no, I still can't get him to play anything but mono black.)
My current build:
9x Island
4x Chrome Mox
3x Mutavault (Should be 4x, getting 1 more this week hopefully)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Tree of Tales
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Tolaria West
(27)Creatures:
4x Mistblade Shinobi
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
4x Ornithopter
4x Mothdust Changeling
4x Spellstutter Sprite
3x Trinket Mage
2x Higure, the Still Wind
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
4x Standstill
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Pithing Needle
1x Shuriken
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Aether Spellbomb
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Engineered Explosives
4x Threads of Disloyalty
4x Stifle
1x Meekstone
Card choices:
Mutavault:
This thing should be a four-of and synergizes with the whole deck. You can ninjitsu off it, it is a faerie for Spellstutter Sprite, it is a wizard for Riptide Laboratory, it is a ninja for Shuriken and it gives you board position for Standstill.
The "One-of" lands:
Basically they are two-ofs since you run a copy of Tolaria West to grab whichever one you need. Since I am running Engineered Explosives and I occasionally want to set it to 2, I use one copy of Tree of Tales. I don't know if I like it or not yet, but in testing it seems fine and doesn't screw up my mana. Riptide Laboratory is very, very good, and I had 2 copies in for a while until I switched Faerie Conclaves for Mutavault and I felt I needed more colored sources (hence why I am not running Swarmyard as well.) The Seat of the Synod is just incase I need to fetch a blue source with a Trinket Mage and the Academy Ruins I like maindeck over Swarmyard or Pendelhaven. I may actually put in a copy of Pendelhaven, perhaps in the Tree of Tales slot, but I haven't decided yet.
The Moxen:
I have been struggling with the moxen decision for a while now. On one hand it can make for some really cool turn one plays like: Mutavault, Chrome Mox, Ornithopter, Standstillwith a ninja in the grip. It can also help a ton when I am swinging with Ninja of the Deep Hours and popping Standstill left and right for huge card advantage. If I have 9 cards in my hand, I can drop a Mox or two and play sometimes 2 more spells than I could without it - which can really put a lot of pressure on. On the other hand, sometimes I am sitting on a hand with a lot of artifacts and a mox I really don't want to use because it will take my only blue card. I have to test it a lot more before I decide.
The Creatures:
The major differences from Matt's version is the switching of the numbers of Venser, Shaper Savant and Trinket Mage. I found using three Vensers clogged my hand a lot. Trinket Mage is almost NEVER a dead card. Of course I am running a couple more artifacts than he did main. The other difference is, I am trying out a couple of Higure, the Still Wind. He may seem janky at first but, let me tell you, this guy is a HOUSE AND A HALF if he comes down. With the Moxen I have dropped him as early as turn two. He can't be hit by Smother and he laughs at early Pernicious Deed and Engineered Explosives. Threads of Disloyalty can't touch him, AND he can be unblockable and make your team unblockable with enough mana. He also beats Lightning Helix and Incinerate, forcing Zoo to either have to Tribal Flames or two-for-one it. If I draw two of them I just ditch one under a mox. If I am afraid he will die after his first hit, I just grab the second one with his ability, drop him again, and proceed to grab whatever ninja I happen to need at the time. The rest of the creature base seems golden.
The other stuff:
Standstill is obviously solid gold. Some people pop this left and right. Other people will try to play around it, or even let me time walk a couple times, hitting them with ninjas and Mutavault and when they realize they need to pop it, its just too late. Umezawa's Jitte is obviously another card that screams "DEAL WITH ME OR DIE!". Pithing Needle of course shuts down so many cards it is an auto-include. Shuriken is infinite removal for weenies, which is necessary for this deck. Engineered Explosives helps a lot of situations, it is almost always set to one, but sometimes set to zero or two. It is narrow, but helps a lot against Zoo, ElfAlarm and a little against Goblins. Aether Spellbomb has been absolutely insane, especially late game. Recurring it off the Academy Ruins is game for a lot of decks, especially if you are hitting them with ninjas at the same time.
Sideboard:
Stifle is necessary against TEPS. You can also gain a lot of tempo against decks with fetchlands by stifling their turn 1 fetchland. I almost want to maindeck these things. They can stop Pernicious Deed, Ravenous Baloth and loads of other stuff that hurts you. Threads of Disloyalty really helps your Zoo matchup. It can also help against NLB/Chase Rare and anything that runs Dark Confidant or Tarmogoyf. By the way, Threads of Disloyalty on a Bob, despite the fact that I run 4 and 5 cost stuff = game unless they deal with it. Meekstone is good against Tarmogoyf, Countryside Crusher, Terravore, Myr Enforcer etc. I almost want to maindeck it. The extra Engineered Explosives and Tormod's Crypts are mostly there for Dredge, and the explosives double for decks with a lot of 1 drops (Zoo).
- Tested Matchups -
Gifts Rock:
I have yet to be beaten by Gifts Rock. My old 3-color Ninja/Erayo build semeed to have about a 60/40 game against GiftsRock, this thing seems to have an 80/20, though in many games, I never lost, it came close, so I think with bad luck/mulls, gifts rock should pull out some games, but I did mull to 5 one game against it and still won so, I don't know.
Deathcloud:
Deathcloud hasn't beaten this thing either, it seems to just edge out everything they are trying to do. The Loxodon Hierarch version seems to do a little better than the non-white version, since when I bounce their hierarchs to hit them, they get to gain lots of life. Seems too slow to do much, however, again, with a good draw, who knows?
NLB/Chase Rare:
I have tested this match with a couple different builds of each of the decks. It seems to be a favorable matchup for ninjas. The only thing they can really hope to do is get shackles down early and often. Counterbalance doesn't really hurt this deck, its more of like an annoyance. As long as you can keep dropping ninjas left and right, they eventually can't deal with it. Versus shackles, you can often tap the guy they steal to Mothdust Changeling and manage to hit them with a shinobi and bounce the thing back, that way you can juggle ninjas and beat at least one (and I've seen even two) shackles. There isn't much they can threads either (just your mothdusts, ornithopters and spellstutters) and you can e the same trick there and it is bye bye threads. You can also use Echoing Truth if you maindeck it to pull cool EoT truth their shackles sort of stuff and SFTW.
Tooth and Nail:
Tooth is a really sad matchup. This is regular old tooth, not Rock and Nail or Tooth with splash white or red for creature kill. Surprisingly some people still play this and apparently I have heard people still show up at PTQs and stuff with it (maybe because of Scapeshift? I dunno) so I tested against it since someone in my area has it. Basically they just sit there and try to set up while you pound them with ninjas. Trinket Mage for needle on their top sucks for them. Countering Scapeshift with Spellstutter Sprite is funny, and repeatedly Vensering their Tooth and Nail sucks for them. The only hope I think they have is resolving a Mindslaver and getting to use it (if I fear that I just needle it). Not sure what they can do here.
Enduring Ideal:
Same thing as Tooth and Nail but faster and they have Pyroclasm. I generally Spellstutter their Burning Wishand Pyroclasms, unless they have the Boseiju. Recurring Vensers is really hot here, since their Boseiju is no good there. Even if they resolve the Ideal, what do they grab? Solitary Confinement? Bounced and SFTW. Form of the Dragon? I have flyers, and bounced/SFTW. Again, not much they can do here. This is where I advocate AT LEAST one Aether Spellbomb to grab with the Trinket Mages, if not more in the board, the spellbomb is the nuts. Spellbomb+Academy Ruins = Game against Ideal usually.
Zoo:
Zoo hurts. Zoo is not pleasant. Zoo is our worst matchup I believe. They have burn for our Ninjas and Ninja enablers. They have cheap, fast critters that can block our ninjas. This is where I advocate at least one Engineered Explosives maindeck to grab with Trinket. Kird Apes are hard to take out otherwise. Shuriken can kill everything else, except 'Goyf usually. My solution for 'Goyf is either recurring Tormod's Crypt or just bouncing it repeatedly. They have no flyers which helps, but all the burn hurts our critters.
Dredge:
Well, there's not a lot any deck can do to stop the turn two super Dredge nuttiness, so I have lost some game ones to that. If you can get a quick Trinket Mage down for either a Tormod's Crypt or an Engineered Explosives set at 0 you can do alright. Post board you bring in more crypts and explosives. Matt's build ran Echoing Truthmaindeck, I think those might be a good call if you expect a lot of dredge. He also ran a copy of Tolaria West, which can grab Crypt. Anyway, pre-board it has about the same odds as most decks that pack Trinket Mage. Post board with 8 cards you can slow them down with by first/second turn, you are okay.
Heartbeat:
I have not lost a game against Heartbeat either. This deck seems to be well designed to hose control and combo. Spellstutter Sprite on their Moment's Peace hurts them. Vensering a key Heartbeat of Spring or Early Harvest stops them a lot of the time. Post board the Stifle action completely stops them from going off.
NoobStax:
This can hurt if you don't get some quick zero and one drops down. Trinisphere stops your spells, but not your ninjas. Suppression Field hurts a lot though, and Root Maze slows the deck down a ton. I only tested this one a couple games and I won them both, but it was not a totally optimal build. I will be doing more testing against this deck soon.
Mono Black builds:
If you're facing Mono-Black control with Thoughtseize and Damnation main deck, you could have some problems. A first turn Thoughtseize can hurt a lot. A first turn Thoughtseize followed by a fourth turn Damnation that you can't counter can be game. The good thing here is, if they don't get Damnation right off the bat, and/or they don't get Thoughtseize right off the bat, you get so much card advantage they don't really matter. Smother hurts our ninja enablers, but thanfully not our most potent ninja - Ninja of the Deep Hours. This matchup seems to be 60/40 in our favor, and there shouldn't be much mono-black control around.
Stuff I haven't tested:
Most control decks seem to roll to this, most aggro decks seem to have at least a decent matchup. Aggroish decks that swarm do better than those that rely on fatties (aggro loam drops countryside crusher, crusher gets big...crusher gets bounced, etc.). Anything with burn hurts a lot, I haven't tested against that mono-red burn deck that has been around, but I will be before this weekend's PTQ. I assume if they waste time burning your creatures there though, you will edge them out, and if they burn your face, you may have enough spellstutters and Vensers to stop the lethalness long enough to kill them. May need some kind of sideboard against them, god I wish Ivory Tower was in extended. Affinity seems tough, I will be testing against it this week more. I think between bounce, Shuriken, Meekstoneand holding back sprites and Vensers to hold off their Shrapnel Blasts, it could be okay.
Summary:
It seems to have a good/fair matchup against a lot of decks. If you are expecting a lot of Zoo, I wouldn't play this (play Deathcloud instead!). I need to play around with the maindeck and sideboard a lot more after I test it more. I am going to be bringing this deck to the PTQ in Brighton Massachusetts next weekend, so I will be playtesting it a lot this Wednesday and Friday. I will post some more results before the PTQ, and hopefully some good results after next weekend.
Regards,
Hazur
(PS: SUGGESTIONS would be great! I am hardly new to this deck but I miss things all the time, so any constructive suggestions would be welcome. Please no "cut these 9 cards for these 9 cards" with no reasons for doing so posts. Also, someone tell me whether or not I should be playing moxes, it is wracking my brain!)
@hazur
I would play Mox, as I love them but it does produce some in hand disadvantage. BTW, did you give up on Erayo? PM me if not
Also, holy crap this deck won GPT Vienna!! Beating NLU in the finals
I think this deck is becoming a contender... time will tell.
Standard:
GWU Bant Control
GRB Jund Ramp
GW Overrun
Extended:
0 Affinity
QUOTES
Big Thanks to Spiderboy4 and High Light Studios for the Sig
Oh no springleaf drum in affinity= nuts. That's because it's an artifact so in affinity it will count as 2 mana and pumping out insane plays like an opening of ornithopter, land, drum, drum, frogmite, frogmite, myr enforcer. It's nuts because it counts as 2 mana that they can play multiples of in a turn, as well as sac fodder for arcbound ravager and an extra +1 from plating.
IMO, In this deck, springleaf drum not so much.
What can this deck do for Goblins? I would think that's probably one of the hardest matchups, maybe harder than Zoo(since against zoo you can use Explosives for 1 to wipe out a bunch of stuff), and I'm coming up blank.
My first thought was splash black for Engineered Plague but that doesn't work at all with the changelings in this deck. My next thought was to try Tsabo's Decree but I think that is probably way too slow.
I was also thinking that Divert would probably be very good against Zoo, RDW, & also mono red Burn. I know the original list played it in the board as a one of, but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be a 2-3 of instead.
How is Hurkyl's Recall? Good enough against Affinity to have a place in the board, or is it not worth the slot?
Decree is way way too slow against goblins. I have to agree that goblins, is one tough match. In testing I have found that threads of disloyalty out of the board can make a game against goblins, but then again they can just roll over us too. Jitte was the MVP against goblins and I've been considering making room for 1 more side. I'm really not sure if that would do it though. It's a tough match
Recall is a good side if you expect to see a lot of affinity. The deck has enough bounce main to where you can manage without, but recall improves your odds quite a bit. When I tested against affinity it was a tough match, but win-able. I would go so far as to say it's a far better match then goblins, so unless you expect a lot of it I wouldn't use the SB slot, and even better would be to splash white for Kataki, especially if you are already planning on playing engineered explosives.
Also, to give you another perspective here's the side from Felipe Saavedra's ninja deck in Vienna
Sideboard:
Hello,
Our aggro matches are tough and I've found out there's not enough you can really do to change it without slicing up the deck. Burn is what hurts more than anything. Affinity is the LEAST of your worries. If you do expect a lot of affinity, Hurkyl's Recall is generally your best bet. Personally I am not going to bother with specific aggro matches too much, because they all suck. Stifle is 100% necessary right now. The goblin matchup sucks unless you drop an early Jitte. You can maybe snag some more SB slots if you go down to 3 ofs:
3x Threads of Disloyalty
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Stifle
3x Sun Droplet
I would go with Sun Droplet over the Hurkyl's Recall...burn really really hurts this deck. I'm already running a Tormod's Crypt and an Engineered Explosives main so, the 3x there don't matter to me. Engineered Explosives really helps our MU's against RDW and Domain Zoo decks with a lot of 1 drops. Along with Academy Ruins you can really shut them down. Problem I have is all the burn burn burn burn burn.
Regards,
Hazur
You said it man
I think Hazur is right to play academy ruins and explosives main. The aggro match is pretty bad, especially game 1 you pretty much have to get lucky and draw tons of bounce and explosives. I recently went to 2 venser and 3 trinket mage just to improve my chances game 1, haven't had time to see if it makes a difference yet though. Als in the side I went up to 4 Sun Droplet to help against burn and I cut 1 tormod's crypt since I have 1 main + 3 trinket mage and 2 side. I'll have to see how it goes.
Congrats and Good Luck! You will have to tell us how it goes. My shop held an extended night over the weekend and I saw another version recently with Sower of Temptation side instead of Threads of disloyalty, seemed to have some synergy with the deck, although most decks have a way to deal with a 2/2 flyer. Also it dropped some cards (not sure which sorry) to add counterspell. It seemed to do very well against NLU & Ideal. The dude only had one loss to RDW (although the loss was a blowout) then left. so out of 4 games he 3-1. (1 win against Jank, 1 NLU, 1 Ideal, 1 loss RDW)
Hey,
LOL thanks for giving away the secret tech. Try some Sowers in the main deck, they are nuts against most forms of aggro. Even if you make them waste burn on it, you still get their best creature for at least a turn mid-late game. RDW and Burn are completely useless, but I have been able to take 2/3 from domain zoo PRE-board with Sowers main deck. I am maining at least 2 copies of Sower and siding 4 Threads. Aggro hurts...real bad.
Regards,
Hazur
I tried running this deck in a PTQ in Brighton, MA. The problem I ran across was it doesn't beat jank decks very well. Round one I played some guy who was playing some weird green/white anti-aggro primal command/eladamri's call/lifegain thing and we drew. Round 2 I played against dredge and drew again. At that point I was like "okay, I can go 5-0 from here on out!". So the next round I ran into Slide of all things - not the best matchup unless you get under their skin real fast and don't let them resolve astral slide. I actually let the guy get astral slide on the board but I had so many Vensers for his wraths that I overwhelmed him games 2 and 3. Round 4 I played against Ideal and lost because I could not get 4 lands and a Venser in any of the games, very disappointing. I decided to drop after that because I could not top 8. So I ended up 1-1-2 - the 2 draws would have been wins if I had been able to kill faster. The problem with this deck in actual events is the time constraint. If you run into any kind of lifegain or massive wrath affects, you will have trouble not drawing if you don't win your first two games. I think I am done with ninjas on a PTQ+ level - I may still play it at local tournies though.
Regards,
Hazur
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Ornithopter
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Trinket Mage
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Echoing Truth
4 Standstill
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shuriken
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Meekstone
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Faerie Conclave
11 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swarmyard
1 Tolaria West
2 Divert
4 Stifle
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Leonin Bola
2 Familiar's Ruse
One very key point to this deck is that it plays Meekstone main, which all around seems like a good idea.
I have had very good experience with this deck, however my local grand prix looks like it will not be extended So I am stuck waiting for extended nights at my local shop.
I think that illusions of mediocrity is an awesome side if you expect a lot of mono red burn. Really I think it's a meta call. I have noticed that divert is also handy against burn:
Opponent: Sac an artifact land to shrapnel blast you
Ninja-player: divert to your head
Opponent: that sucks.
Ninja-player: Pretty much yeah.
@ mistercakes
Yeah -1 venser can suck bad, but I know I've had games with 2 venser's stuck in my hand especially with riptide lab, I still think the better would be -1 venser +1 trinket mage. Also, Leonin Bola is so very useful, nice find.
14 Island
3 Mutavault
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swarmyard
4 Cloud Sprite
3 Higure, the Still Wind
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Trinket Mage
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shuriken
4 Standstill
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Stifle
4 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Tormod's Crypt
I am going back to the more traditional build. I've found out that Chrome Mox is bad times. I've also found out that Echoing Truth would have been good to have in a lot of games. I am going with something close to the build that has won with a different SB. Here are my SB choices:
4x Stifle
4x Hurkyl's Recall
4x Divert
3x Threads of Disloyalty
I think Divert is really the best plan. Zoo has been a problem for me, and if they tap out for removal (better yet, tribal flames) I can just ship it to one of their critters. Mono red burn also takes a huge hit from Divert. Hurkyl's Recall is good for Affinity, NLU and even some combo decks (I have recalled double Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom during someone's upkeep FTW.). Stifle is obviously great against a lot of decks, I even tried MDing it for a while. Threads is looking worse and worse the more I test it.
Regards,
Hazur
Over at the Zoo the animals and I feel bad for the ninjas and kunoichi about to get left out in the cold. I don't think you should give up on the deck. I don't suppose a Green splash would convolute things too much? Well I look forward to testing out any new builds.
Love,
Skippy McWednesday
Hello,
The thing about it is, you need to keep yourself in the game the whole time. You will draw lots and lots of cards. Recall isn't a blowout play, its a tempo play. They might be able to dump their hand again, or most of it, but its like a Timewalk (I hear that card is good.) and a half. Needle on plating is a very good play, and if they don't use Pyrite Spellbomb, Sower of Temptation can help a bit. Another thing that can really help is Meekstone maindeck. All their Enforcers won't untap, and neither will big ravagers or guys with hats on. If you can needle their hat and drop a Meekstone, you are in good shape. Alternatively, you can blow up most of their lands and Ornithopters with Engineered Explosives for 0. Divert can also help this one, shipping a "game winning" Shrapnel Blast at an Enforcer, Ravager, or their face can really turn the tide. If they are playing the Fatal Frenzy build, you can also ship the Frenzy off to a harmless Ornithopter or something. I think one of the worst parts is their Ornithopters being able to block our ninja enablers all day long. Echoing Truth can help a little here too. I've actually also Stifled a Ravager sacing to itself to be put on a Blinkmoth Nexus for the win. Its not a FAVORABLE matchup at all, but it is winable, and I don't think Affinity is around in force right now. Just play very tight.
Regards,
Hazur
Regards,
Hazur
Also, A very odd Ninja Deck placed 2nd at GPT Philadelphia 2008- Montreal Piloted by Jacob Slade
2 Riptide Laboratory
4 Mutavault
10 Island
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Force Spike
4 Spell Snare
4 Chrome Mox
4 Standstill
4 Trickbind
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Shadow of Doubt
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ornithopter
4 Nevermaker
Looks like he used Trickbinds because he didn't have Stifles (at least that's what I assume). I tried Stifle main deck for a while and it is great in a fetchland-rich format. Shadow of Doubt basically does the same thing, pwns fetchlands, as well as several other search affects (helps against combo). I don't feel that Threads should be maindeck, would rather use Sower of Temptation at that rate. I thought about Ghost Quarter for a while, but I was using too many other cool lands to make the switch. The Nevermaker seems slow but kind of cool, can almost be like a super-Venser in some situations (swing with it, ninjitsu in a mistblade shinobi, evoke it, bounce 3 things in 1 turn.) I don't know if I agree with Ornithopter in the sideboard and no Mothdust Changeling, but I guess he just hopes to get Chrome Mox a lot. Looks like more of a combo killer with board for aggro.
Regards,
Hazur
Hello,
When someone develops a deck and it gets posted on the forums, people analyze their card choices and critique their deck.
And in many situations you WOULD evoke Nevermaker because it would turn the tide very quickly on many situations - turn 3 or 4, drop Nevermaker, bounce a permanent, turn 4 or 5, swing with Nevermaker, ninjitsu shinobi, bounce another permanent, bounce a creature with shinobi, then bounce another permanent with the nevermaker with an evoke. That is 4 permanents over two turns, which could cripple a lot of decks. Yes, you could obviously re-play it if you didn't need that kind of board position, but I assume it happens fairly often from my experience playing a similar deck a lot.
Regards,
Hazur
Hello,
My first post was correct, my second post was actually wrong. Evoke causes the creature to leave play, so therefore, Nevermaker being Shinobi'd then Evoke'd = 3 permanents, counting the shinobi's ability. But you do not get the first permanent for playing it, so I did mis-post the second time.
Regards,
Hazur
I gotta agree, just seems too slow, I would actually rather play a riftwing cloudskate then that guy... and even then it's not a choice I would make. Although I haven't tested it either, but I will now to see.
Nevermaker is not necessary, nor is Riftwing. The order of bounce to run starts with Venser, then goes to Mistblade Shinobi, and finally Echoing Truth.
Regards,
Hazur