static orb seems too much of a win more card in my testing; any good replacemant? maybe spell snare MD? or a black splash for duress or cabal therapy?
also voidlslime seems awfully bad, I haven't test it yet, but what do you think?
TEPS is a 25/75 matchup pre-board and quite a bit better after board. Trickbind and Spellsnare really is a piss off for them.
Drop a 3rd turn opposition (it isn't that rare) and the match is done. Quoted from the TEPS I just held into turn 15 with: "Thats the longest game I've ever played)
Lets see.. I haven't played ::too:: much aggro. A Green/White aggro and gifts rock are the games I recall. Managed to slaughter both without too much of a hassle.
However- I got tooled by Chant.. first game because I wasn't expecting it. Second game I took him to three life but he busted out a Tefari and I didn't get an opposition till turn 30 :/
Personally? I removed a Symbiote for another Opposition. When it gets out early the game is heavily in your favor as at the very least the opponent has to waste time trying to get rid of it.
Its a strong deck- I only wonder how it would fair against really strong aggro like Boros. Loam Decks seems like a "Meh" match if opposition gets out early (and Devastating Dreams doesn't butcher too many small guys).
Its a fun deck, I like it and can see it doing very well.
The thing I like about Voidslime is the versatility. It can either stop a storm spell, or double as an actual counterspell if needed. My sideboard is crammed, and against most decks I would like having a counterspell after board (To keep isochron scepters, etc off the table). Where as trickbind or stifle is only good against a few decks, voidslime helps against more of them.
Standard fair except for 3 copies of Top that replaced the win-moreness of Static Orb. Helps with finding sideboard bullets, Beacon, or Opposition and the deck shuffles like every turn if it is running correctly so its almost like drawing 6 cards a turn (note the almost). Anyways, I've been testing it out in quite a few games and it is GODLY. The sole reason that I won a very close game with Affinity is because I was able to find Krosan Grip after much searching with Top to destroy his Pithing Needle set to Opposition. It has come in handy countless times and I reccomend it to anyone who has trouble finding any of their cards =D
Stifles, counterspells, and well timed Crypts help you with this matchup. It is extremely difficult and close to unwinnable pre-board. Opposition is your top priority. Spectral Force and Jitte are better against aggro and you don't need a big guy and a pumper to get them down. Ranger and Witness are more contriversial choices but are boarded out because Scryb is just something I board out regularly (it actually isn't nearly as good as Symbiote) and you don't need witness because unless they Duress you one of each anti-wins is enough. If you stop them from going off once you can more often than not knock them on their ass.
BDW
Nothing
The matchup is so-so. You really have pretty much the optimal build for what you are trying to accomplish against a deck that burns all your guys. I am probably going to take out Spell Snare as I have found it to be completely and utterly useless in the sideboard and put in something that does some good in this matchup because it could use a little boost. Scryb Rangers really shine here as they protect you from LD which most BDW play now to combat TEPS.
[...]
Blah Blah, Subpar decklist, Blah.
[...]
Standard fair except for 3 copies of Top that replaced the win-moreness of Static Orb. Helps with finding sideboard bullets, Beacon, or Opposition and the deck shuffles like every turn if it is running correctly so its almost like drawing 6 cards a turn (note the almost). Anyways, I've been testing it out in quite a few games and it is GODLY. The sole reason that I won a very close game with Affinity is because I was able to find Krosan Grip after much searching with Top to destroy his Pithing Needle set to Opposition. It has come in handy countless times and I reccomend it to anyone who has trouble finding any of their cards =D
From MTG.com:
1) "Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
2) "Flying, Protection from blue
Return a Forest you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
Now... how the HELL could you call Static Orb a win-more card? What other card in your deck would help you completely lock down an opponent during his/her upkeep every turn? Even if you don't have Opposition down, you still have cards in your deck that help you benefit more from the Orb than your opponent... bounce your tapped lands(then replay them) to untap your creatures that are Orb-locked? Bounce your tapped elf(one that's going to draw you a card or put a land into play) so that your other Orb-locked creature can untap? I really don't see how SDT could help you more in the manner of winning a game... And I really don't see you reshuffling every turn, as all you have are 4 wood elves, 5 fetchlands, and 4 beacons... Tooth and Nail decks barely reshuffle every other turn, and they have a lot more shuffling effects than this deck does(17+, I believe?)...
So... what are you going to do with a divining top in the mirror match? Try to find a beacon just so you can catch up? Or, would you rather have the opportunity to catch them offguard and get the lock on them first? I dunno about you, but there's not much to win with when you have a trinket instead of a lock component...
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
In the mirror I end up winning because of card quality in the form of Top. Any chance that they have to take an advantage of Static Orb I have just as much of a chance of manipulating my creatures tap/untap processes with the same number of untapping creatures as they do, only I get to essentially "search" for them with Top.
"Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
You said it yourself: that is how the hell I am shuffling twice every turn. Bounce an elf (wood or Coiling), play an elf, get a land, shuffle (or draw), top, rinse and repeat depending on the number of Symbiotes I have in play (returning an elf at the end of their turn is also some good as I hear). The problem I have with the base of this deck most of the time is that when you get a nice trick going with Symbiote or something of equal ridiculousness I have a problem finding Opposition to capitalize/prevent my opponent from screwing me over royally before I can kill them (such violent swings of a game can be attributed to AzoriusTron, ScepterChant and the rare but still played Tooth which can be seriously bad if you don't find your Opposition). Now what you propose is that the deck play a card that allows someone to untap two permanents a turn (probably lands) and then subsequently cast a game-ending/tempo swinging/devastating spell regardless of this. Or, you could go with (so far) the much better option of redeveloping your base with what is essentially 3 extra cards in your hand, easily finding the Opposition, and completely locking your opponent out of the game before they win. Now, if you have Opposition in play, suddenly the card becomes very good, but this is amusing in the sense that if you have Opposition in play you shouldn't really have any problem whatsoever tapping them down with the creatures you have already. Funny how that is, isn't it? I have never had a problem tapping my opponent down with an Opposition in play the turn of or turn after I play it, and that ends the game. Now if you apply a Top, an interesting thing happens: they keep playing permanents and you are able to keep topping for efficient cards to counter those permanents. Whether it be creature, spell or a certain pesky artifact, Top can help you find an answer faster than Static Orb would delay them (and yourself, because regardless of how many untapping creatures you have you are never at full efficiency) so that you can maybe inch in those final points of damage to end the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit."
"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."
"I love you guys, thanks for comin' to my special."
- Mitch Hedburg (1968-2005)
We love you too Mitch, we love you too.
"Girls are like Voltron: the more you stick together, the better it gets." SE
Umm, I just noticed your talking about using the Symbiote and such to untapped frozen creatures. Well, as far as I know, you are supposed to use an untapped creature to tap the Static Orb before your untap step, is that correct?
Also, Coiling Oracle and Wood Elves help shuffle and find Opposition and Orb if needed.
@Joseph Penney: I definately see where you're coming from in using Top in the deck, but I still don't see why you cut out all of the Orbs... you said one of the reasons Top was in there was to search out silver bullets in the SB, so why not have a MD Orb? I was basically saying that you shouldn't cut Orb(a great lock-enabler in the deck) just so you could use Top... I'm sure there's a way to balance out the #s so that you can still play Orb... if you want to.
Umm, I just noticed your talking about using the Symbiote and such to untapped frozen creatures. Well, as far as I know, you are supposed to use an untapped creature to tap the Static Orb before your untap step, is that correct?
Yes, that is the plan... if you have opposition in play already... I was merely stating that you could plan on drawing either Opposition or Static Orb to effectively give yourself a huge advantage... Either way, if you're not running Divining Tops, the 4th Opposition needs to be somewhere, either in the MD or the SB. It's so crucial to winning so many matchups...
Quote from Meow_Mix »
Also, Coiling Oracle and Wood Elves help shuffle and find Opposition and Orb if needed.
Yes, but that's only if you have SDT in your deck... they don't do anything to "find" the cards you need unless you have library manipulation.
Quote from Meow_Mix »
Would you guys suggest this deck to a PTQ?
Absolutely not. It's currently the most popular deck on MTGO(and I'm sure it's gaining a LOT of popularity for IRL testing), so I don't see it living through any hate and/or metagaming*... There might be a list that makes it to T8 yet again, but I don't really see this deck taking over the metagame any time soon.
*In other words, if 20-30% of the people at the tourney are expected to play this deck, decks like Tooth/TEPS/Tron/Tog/Ichorid/etc will show up in higher numbers and thus make your deck choice less effective, since more people will be prepared to beat this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
I spoke to someone on MTGO last night that said the deck wasn't all that good. He was playing it in the PE, but told me that it reminded him a lot of Goblins. It can have explosive starts, but as many times as not, you'll just be stuck with generic 1/1s. Does anyone else have any opinions on this before I buy the cards for the deck?
Thanks
If you don't draw Spectral Force, that's pretty much exactly what you have. (Well, Eternal Witness is a 2/1, but still.) Ideally, the deck can use Static Orb and/or Opposition to keep things tied up until either Spectral Force shows up or you have mad 1/1 tokens thanks to multiple Beacons. The problem is, 1/1 creatures are quite easy to kill, even in quantities.
I tried Opposition for a while (different build than this, but the same principle). In aggro matches, presuming your creatures live, they'll probably be tapping opposing creatures. Opposition is best when it can tap lands and really lock down the opponent. With no removal, you need a large creature advantage against other creature decks to do that. Against combo, Opposition isn't always enough. Day 2 of GP Boston 2005, I dropped Opposition turn 3 against Aluren.dec and was still able to tap one of his lands. He basically said LOL and won the game that turn anyway. While the Aluren deck isn't around anymore, the popular combo deck of the day is just as explosive.
The deck can obviously be good. But I imagine there are games you will look at your collection of irrelevant 1/1 creatures and ponder the Grand Unfairness of Things.
If you don't draw Spectral Force, that's pretty much exactly what you have. (Well, Eternal Witness is a 2/1, but still.) Ideally, the deck can use Static Orb and/or Opposition to keep things tied up until either Spectral Force shows up or you have mad 1/1 tokens thanks to multiple Beacons. The problem is, 1/1 creatures are quite easy to kill, even in quantities.
Heh, true...
Is there any other deck in the format that scoops to Nausea?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
I have NEVER found myself scooping to Nausea.. its a pain in the ass but I've never scooped. I usually come back to win the game- after all, the more time they waste fiddling around with my insect hordes the more time I have to setup a lock.
I was wondering about the addition of a Tefari.... it would enable a 100% lockdown as the opponent could never respond with a card to nuke the opposition. Its also a win condition in itself.
It topped 8 in another extended last night.. so it has to be decently strong.
Do you think that Frozen AEther could replace Static Orb in the deck? It only costs 1 more colourless, but completely negates the penalty of static orb on your side of the board, and completely denies them from any sort of untap.
(note, autocard for frozen aether doesn't work, since it hasn't updated w/ PC cards, but since it's a functional reprint of kismet, i made the link refer to that card in particular)
Loxodon Hierarch provides life gain against the BDW deck that is so popular. Also gives you a 4 toughness that will require 2 removal spells to get rid of (sans Char). Also lets you regenerate from a board clearing Devastating Dreams.
By adding white, I also gain access to Kataki and Sacred Ground. There are 2 very popular decks online...Loam and BDW. Also (if you can afford them online) gives you access to Orim's Chant to battle combo.
Other Sideboard Choices: Spell Snare is good to battle counter decks and also good against a majority decks. Sword of Fire and Ice comes in against burn decks and against the mirror. Genesis comes in against decks packed with alot of removal.
Um...you replaced Spectral Force...with Loxodon Hierarch. Spectral Force is essentially the Win-Condition, so I don't really see any benefit to removing it.
Um...you replaced Spectral Force...with Loxodon Hierarch. Spectral Force is essentially the Win-Condition, so I don't really see any benefit to removing it.
I have replaced the forces for ravenosu baloth in my build, yeah they are half as strong but the DO kill oponents and the give u some life too(very needed sometimes)
The problem isn't really that they're half as strong, it's that they're half as strong and lack trample.
what do you neeed trample for?? often ennough when u have an operational spectral force you have more creatures; then if u have more creatures you can tap the posible blockers via opposition
what do you neeed trample for?? often ennough when u have an operational spectral force you have more creatures; then if u have more creatures you can tap the posible blockers via opposition
That's my point exactly...what's the point of trample when your opponent's critters are tapped down. Again with Hierarch, you can pull some nice saves with the regen shield. I'm working on getting 2 Witnesses in the deck...Not sure what to cut though
Had some funny dreams last night (I know... I dreamt about MTG:O) where I managed to put together a solid UG (Red Splash) Opposition deck, Using Fecundity, Phyrexian Altar, and Empty the Warrens, Along with the original Beacon of Creation, Jitte, and Beatdown ideas.
Hope being it allows you to either:
A) Use Empty the Warrens for quite a few tokens (Bouncing 1 Mana ELves back to your hand to build some storm up)
B) Generating more mana off those tokens
C) Using Phyrexian Altar and Fecundity for some insane **** and most likely the lockdown on that turn (Or at the very least a super effective lockdown).
While I realize that this idea will most likely have little merit (It disassociates the combo a bit...) Its always fun to throw something new out.
The main thing i really don't like about these splashes is that it takes one of UGO's (lol, reading it quickly, i pronounce it as Yugioh, rofl) strong points is its relatively strong manabase. The deck only needs to rely on 8 nonbasics for mana fixing, making it resiliant to LD. If we start adding temple gardens or stomping grounds, we're lowering our pants a bit more to 8-LD builds of BDW, sundering titans, destructive flow, etc. in my opinion, by splashing, the deck is taking one step forward, but taking 2 steps back.
The problem with Baloth and Hierarch: they both die, all day long, to Silver Knight + Sudden Shock. Or any bear plus Sudden Shock, but the Knight is what allows Boros to make good trades in combat. The Hierarch has at least given you 4 life, but you lose the benefit of having a large beater in both cases.
Spectral Force doesn't have that problem. I guess he bites it to Silver Knight + 2x Lightning Helix, but the odds of that happening aren't very good.
what do you neeed trample for?? often ennough when u have an operational spectral force you have more creatures; then if u have more creatures you can tap the posible blockers via opposition
That's assuming you have both Opposition and a bunch of creatures on the board. The former is possible, but the later is rather tricky against any deck with burn.
Spectral doesn't need either of those, which makes it better. A one card combo is better then a three-plus card combo the vast majority of the time. Do you really want to get chump blocked by BoP's or Elders all day?
That's assuming you have both Opposition and a bunch of creatures on the board. The former is possible, but the later is rather tricky against any deck with burn.
Spectral doesn't need either of those, which makes it better. A one card combo is better then a three-plus card combo the vast majority of the time. Do you really want to get chump blocked by BoP's or Elders all day?
The same argument can be said about Force. He's only good if you have a Scryb Ranger in play. Otherwise, he's doing 8 damage every two turns...which is just like Hierarch/Baloth.
As for the he dies to First Strike + Sudden Shock. That's true. If my opponent attacks and I have a Hierarch in play, it's gonna make me think, why is he attacking when I have a bigger creature. So chump block or take the two. Same goes for me attacking. I may hold off if he has a Silver Knight and 1R open. I may wait until I get the opposition in play. It's about playing smarter with Hierarch. With Force you just turn it sideways every other turn. While Force is nasty, without Ranger in play, he's no better than a 4/8 creature.
The same argument can be said about Force. He's only good if you have a Scryb Ranger in play. Otherwise, he's doing 8 damage every two turns...which is just like Hierarch/Baloth.
Except he has Trample, which means he does more then Baloth/Hierach because his damage can't be chump-blocked...as I've had to say for the 2nd time now...
Except he has Trample, which means he does more then Baloth/Hierach because his damage can't be chump-blocked...as I've had to say for the 2nd time now...
Repeating the same argument over and over again does not make it a valid point. We all know Force has Trample, I prefer the Hierarch's +4 Life and Regen shield over +4/+4 and Trample. I may try and squeeze in 2 Forces later, but as of right now, I'll take my Hierarchs
The same argument can be said about Force. He's only good if you have a Scryb Ranger in play. Otherwise, he's doing 8 damage every two turns...which is just like Hierarch/Baloth.
As for the he dies to First Strike + Sudden Shock. That's true. If my opponent attacks and I have a Hierarch in play, it's gonna make me think, why is he attacking when I have a bigger creature. So chump block or take the two. Same goes for me attacking. I may hold off if he has a Silver Knight and 1R open. I may wait until I get the opposition in play. It's about playing smarter with Hierarch. With Force you just turn it sideways every other turn. While Force is nasty, without Ranger in play, he's no better than a 4/8 creature.
Have you read the text on Wirewood Symbiote? I posted it a page back, so you won't have to go far to find it... "Untap target creature." And Spectral Force is targetable, right? So... there you have it. Spectral Force is a nigh-unkillable, trampling 8/8; Hierarch is a 4/4 with some helpful lifegain; and Baloth is a 4/4 that gains you life when he dies(or forces you to sac him whenever you are targeted by that last burn spell; which means you die to sudden shock if you're sitting on 2 life)...
So, in the matchups where you need it, which would you rather have? More unneeded lifegain on a crappy body, or a huge-ass trampling machine that does twice the damage every turn? You might need to do some matchup analysis to see for yourself where Spectral Force is needed, but I can tell you right now that lifegain is NOT needed in the Boros matchup...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
also voidlslime seems awfully bad, I haven't test it yet, but what do you think?
my have/wants list: :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=95773
Drop a 3rd turn opposition (it isn't that rare) and the match is done. Quoted from the TEPS I just held into turn 15 with: "Thats the longest game I've ever played)
Lets see.. I haven't played ::too:: much aggro. A Green/White aggro and gifts rock are the games I recall. Managed to slaughter both without too much of a hassle.
However- I got tooled by Chant.. first game because I wasn't expecting it. Second game I took him to three life but he busted out a Tefari and I didn't get an opposition till turn 30 :/
Personally? I removed a Symbiote for another Opposition. When it gets out early the game is heavily in your favor as at the very least the opponent has to waste time trying to get rid of it.
Its a strong deck- I only wonder how it would fair against really strong aggro like Boros. Loam Decks seems like a "Meh" match if opposition gets out early (and Devastating Dreams doesn't butcher too many small guys).
Its a fun deck, I like it and can see it doing very well.
The thing I like about Voidslime is the versatility. It can either stop a storm spell, or double as an actual counterspell if needed. My sideboard is crammed, and against most decks I would like having a counterspell after board (To keep isochron scepters, etc off the table). Where as trickbind or stifle is only good against a few decks, voidslime helps against more of them.
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
10 Forest
4 Breeding Pool
1 Pendelhaven
Creaturesauce
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Wood Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Eternal Witness
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Spectral Force
4 Opposition
4 Beacon of Creation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
2 Voidslime
EDIT: Sideboarder
TEPS (Worst matchup)
-2 Spectral Force
-3 Umezawa's Jitte
-2 Scryb Ranger
-2 Eternal Witness
+3 Crypt
+4 Stifle
+2 Voidslime
Stifles, counterspells, and well timed Crypts help you with this matchup. It is extremely difficult and close to unwinnable pre-board. Opposition is your top priority. Spectral Force and Jitte are better against aggro and you don't need a big guy and a pumper to get them down. Ranger and Witness are more contriversial choices but are boarded out because Scryb is just something I board out regularly (it actually isn't nearly as good as Symbiote) and you don't need witness because unless they Duress you one of each anti-wins is enough. If you stop them from going off once you can more often than not knock them on their ass.
BDW
Nothing
The matchup is so-so. You really have pretty much the optimal build for what you are trying to accomplish against a deck that burns all your guys. I am probably going to take out Spell Snare as I have found it to be completely and utterly useless in the sideboard and put in something that does some good in this matchup because it could use a little boost. Scryb Rangers really shine here as they protect you from LD which most BDW play now to combat TEPS.
More to come...
"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."
"I love you guys, thanks for comin' to my special."
- Mitch Hedburg (1968-2005)
We love you too Mitch, we love you too.
"Girls are like Voltron: the more you stick together, the better it gets." SE
From MTG.com:
1) "Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
2) "Flying, Protection from blue
Return a Forest you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
Now... how the HELL could you call Static Orb a win-more card? What other card in your deck would help you completely lock down an opponent during his/her upkeep every turn? Even if you don't have Opposition down, you still have cards in your deck that help you benefit more from the Orb than your opponent... bounce your tapped lands(then replay them) to untap your creatures that are Orb-locked? Bounce your tapped elf(one that's going to draw you a card or put a land into play) so that your other Orb-locked creature can untap? I really don't see how SDT could help you more in the manner of winning a game... And I really don't see you reshuffling every turn, as all you have are 4 wood elves, 5 fetchlands, and 4 beacons... Tooth and Nail decks barely reshuffle every other turn, and they have a lot more shuffling effects than this deck does(17+, I believe?)...
So... what are you going to do with a divining top in the mirror match? Try to find a beacon just so you can catch up? Or, would you rather have the opportunity to catch them offguard and get the lock on them first? I dunno about you, but there's not much to win with when you have a trinket instead of a lock component...
"Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
You said it yourself: that is how the hell I am shuffling twice every turn. Bounce an elf (wood or Coiling), play an elf, get a land, shuffle (or draw), top, rinse and repeat depending on the number of Symbiotes I have in play (returning an elf at the end of their turn is also some good as I hear). The problem I have with the base of this deck most of the time is that when you get a nice trick going with Symbiote or something of equal ridiculousness I have a problem finding Opposition to capitalize/prevent my opponent from screwing me over royally before I can kill them (such violent swings of a game can be attributed to AzoriusTron, ScepterChant and the rare but still played Tooth which can be seriously bad if you don't find your Opposition). Now what you propose is that the deck play a card that allows someone to untap two permanents a turn (probably lands) and then subsequently cast a game-ending/tempo swinging/devastating spell regardless of this. Or, you could go with (so far) the much better option of redeveloping your base with what is essentially 3 extra cards in your hand, easily finding the Opposition, and completely locking your opponent out of the game before they win. Now, if you have Opposition in play, suddenly the card becomes very good, but this is amusing in the sense that if you have Opposition in play you shouldn't really have any problem whatsoever tapping them down with the creatures you have already. Funny how that is, isn't it? I have never had a problem tapping my opponent down with an Opposition in play the turn of or turn after I play it, and that ends the game. Now if you apply a Top, an interesting thing happens: they keep playing permanents and you are able to keep topping for efficient cards to counter those permanents. Whether it be creature, spell or a certain pesky artifact, Top can help you find an answer faster than Static Orb would delay them (and yourself, because regardless of how many untapping creatures you have you are never at full efficiency) so that you can maybe inch in those final points of damage to end the game.
"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."
"I love you guys, thanks for comin' to my special."
- Mitch Hedburg (1968-2005)
We love you too Mitch, we love you too.
"Girls are like Voltron: the more you stick together, the better it gets." SE
Also, Coiling Oracle and Wood Elves help shuffle and find Opposition and Orb if needed.
Would you guys suggest this deck to a PTQ?
Yes, that is the plan... if you have opposition in play already... I was merely stating that you could plan on drawing either Opposition or Static Orb to effectively give yourself a huge advantage... Either way, if you're not running Divining Tops, the 4th Opposition needs to be somewhere, either in the MD or the SB. It's so crucial to winning so many matchups...
Yes, but that's only if you have SDT in your deck... they don't do anything to "find" the cards you need unless you have library manipulation.
Absolutely not. It's currently the most popular deck on MTGO(and I'm sure it's gaining a LOT of popularity for IRL testing), so I don't see it living through any hate and/or metagaming*... There might be a list that makes it to T8 yet again, but I don't really see this deck taking over the metagame any time soon.
*In other words, if 20-30% of the people at the tourney are expected to play this deck, decks like Tooth/TEPS/Tron/Tog/Ichorid/etc will show up in higher numbers and thus make your deck choice less effective, since more people will be prepared to beat this deck.
If you don't draw Spectral Force, that's pretty much exactly what you have. (Well, Eternal Witness is a 2/1, but still.) Ideally, the deck can use Static Orb and/or Opposition to keep things tied up until either Spectral Force shows up or you have mad 1/1 tokens thanks to multiple Beacons. The problem is, 1/1 creatures are quite easy to kill, even in quantities.
I tried Opposition for a while (different build than this, but the same principle). In aggro matches, presuming your creatures live, they'll probably be tapping opposing creatures. Opposition is best when it can tap lands and really lock down the opponent. With no removal, you need a large creature advantage against other creature decks to do that. Against combo, Opposition isn't always enough. Day 2 of GP Boston 2005, I dropped Opposition turn 3 against Aluren.dec and was still able to tap one of his lands. He basically said LOL and won the game that turn anyway. While the Aluren deck isn't around anymore, the popular combo deck of the day is just as explosive.
The deck can obviously be good. But I imagine there are games you will look at your collection of irrelevant 1/1 creatures and ponder the Grand Unfairness of Things.
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
Heh, true...
Is there any other deck in the format that scoops to Nausea?
I was wondering about the addition of a Tefari.... it would enable a 100% lockdown as the opponent could never respond with a card to nuke the opposition. Its also a win condition in itself.
It topped 8 in another extended last night.. so it has to be decently strong.
(note, autocard for frozen aether doesn't work, since it hasn't updated w/ PC cards, but since it's a functional reprint of kismet, i made the link refer to that card in particular)
Objection!
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wood Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Scryb Ranger
4 Loxodon Hierarch
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Opposition
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
8 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
3 Spell Snare
3 Krosan Grip
1 Genesis
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Kataki
Unobvious Card Description:
Loxodon Hierarch provides life gain against the BDW deck that is so popular. Also gives you a 4 toughness that will require 2 removal spells to get rid of (sans Char). Also lets you regenerate from a board clearing Devastating Dreams.
By adding white, I also gain access to Kataki and Sacred Ground. There are 2 very popular decks online...Loam and BDW. Also (if you can afford them online) gives you access to Orim's Chant to battle combo.
Other Sideboard Choices:
Spell Snare is good to battle counter decks and also good against a majority decks.
Sword of Fire and Ice comes in against burn decks and against the mirror.
Genesis comes in against decks packed with alot of removal.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I have replaced the forces for ravenosu baloth in my build, yeah they are half as strong but the DO kill oponents and the give u some life too(very needed sometimes)
my have/wants list: :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=95773
what do you neeed trample for?? often ennough when u have an operational spectral force you have more creatures; then if u have more creatures you can tap the posible blockers via opposition
my have/wants list: :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=95773
That's my point exactly...what's the point of trample when your opponent's critters are tapped down. Again with Hierarch, you can pull some nice saves with the regen shield. I'm working on getting 2 Witnesses in the deck...Not sure what to cut though
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Hope being it allows you to either:
A) Use Empty the Warrens for quite a few tokens (Bouncing 1 Mana ELves back to your hand to build some storm up)
B) Generating more mana off those tokens
C) Using Phyrexian Altar and Fecundity for some insane **** and most likely the lockdown on that turn (Or at the very least a super effective lockdown).
While I realize that this idea will most likely have little merit (It disassociates the combo a bit...) Its always fun to throw something new out.
Objection!
Spectral Force doesn't have that problem. I guess he bites it to Silver Knight + 2x Lightning Helix, but the odds of that happening aren't very good.
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
That's assuming you have both Opposition and a bunch of creatures on the board. The former is possible, but the later is rather tricky against any deck with burn.
Spectral doesn't need either of those, which makes it better. A one card combo is better then a three-plus card combo the vast majority of the time. Do you really want to get chump blocked by BoP's or Elders all day?
The same argument can be said about Force. He's only good if you have a Scryb Ranger in play. Otherwise, he's doing 8 damage every two turns...which is just like Hierarch/Baloth.
As for the he dies to First Strike + Sudden Shock. That's true. If my opponent attacks and I have a Hierarch in play, it's gonna make me think, why is he attacking when I have a bigger creature. So chump block or take the two. Same goes for me attacking. I may hold off if he has a Silver Knight and 1R open. I may wait until I get the opposition in play. It's about playing smarter with Hierarch. With Force you just turn it sideways every other turn. While Force is nasty, without Ranger in play, he's no better than a 4/8 creature.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Except he has Trample, which means he does more then Baloth/Hierach because his damage can't be chump-blocked...as I've had to say for the 2nd time now...
Repeating the same argument over and over again does not make it a valid point. We all know Force has Trample, I prefer the Hierarch's +4 Life and Regen shield over +4/+4 and Trample. I may try and squeeze in 2 Forces later, but as of right now, I'll take my Hierarchs
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Have you read the text on Wirewood Symbiote? I posted it a page back, so you won't have to go far to find it... "Untap target creature." And Spectral Force is targetable, right? So... there you have it. Spectral Force is a nigh-unkillable, trampling 8/8; Hierarch is a 4/4 with some helpful lifegain; and Baloth is a 4/4 that gains you life when he dies(or forces you to sac him whenever you are targeted by that last burn spell; which means you die to sudden shock if you're sitting on 2 life)...
So, in the matchups where you need it, which would you rather have? More unneeded lifegain on a crappy body, or a huge-ass trampling machine that does twice the damage every turn? You might need to do some matchup analysis to see for yourself where Spectral Force is needed, but I can tell you right now that lifegain is NOT needed in the Boros matchup...