Of course Zoo is a combo deck, it plays one of the best combos in the format! Wild Nacatl+Stomping Ground
lol. wotc need to figure out what they are going to do and do it decisively.
Leaving extended is kinda like blowing off your crazy girlfriend for another woman. It solves the problem now, but eventually your going to have to face your problems.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I wonder if they plan to replace Standard with Extended? The most common complaint with Standard is that the formats change too quickly, so making it larger would fix that. It would also give them more money, because players would be buying from the four most recent sets instead of the last two. On top of that, it would create a more diverse environment at FNM, and they would actually have enough room in the format to create answers to problems (unlike this last season).
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
LOL... Extended has been dieing since they changed it from 7 years to 4 thought. It completely killed the reason people wanted to play extended. People wanted extended to offer a place to play decks with broader synergy that would allow older cards, but not have to deal with legacy prices while still having the ability to keep the format fresh. New extended didn't really do any of that since all it was going to do is rehash standard with minor variations. Then Jace/SFM/Batterskull came up and that just made Extended into Standard #2. Although the bannings and layout of modern are wonky to say the least, they're layed out in such a way that keep the format from being standard #3 and offer a fresh format where new decks that haven't been seen before can emerge and thrive. It's everything people wanted from extended before Wizards ruined it by neutering it to 4 years from 7.
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I wonder if they plan to replace Standard with Extended? The most common complaint with Standard is that the formats change too quickly, so making it larger would fix that. It would also give them more money, because players would be buying from the four most recent sets instead of the last two. On top of that, it would create a more diverse environment at FNM, and they would actually have enough room in the format to create answers to problems (unlike this last season).
I would be down with that. It would allow me to play with my cool alara cards again like Jund and Naya.
I wonder if they plan to replace Standard with Extended? The most common complaint with Standard is that the formats change too quickly, so making it larger would fix that. It would also give them more money, because players would be buying from the four most recent sets instead of the last two. On top of that, it would create a more diverse environment at FNM, and they would actually have enough room in the format to create answers to problems (unlike this last season).
that would make standard a bit cheaper.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
uhh wouldn't you still have one block rotating every year?
Yep the current extended rotates once a year to keep the same number of blocks in it at the same time. It is not like the 7, 8, 6 year extended that rotated whenever Wizards felt like it.
uhh wouldn't you still have one block rotating every year?
yes but recently bought cards would have 4x the life that they do in standard.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
That makes it really difficult for new players though. I had a rough time building a decent deck when RoE came out because everyone was playing Jund or Bant with all the older cards that I didn't have. It would be that feeling x2.
That makes it really difficult for new players though. I had a rough time building a decent deck when RoE came out because everyone was playing Jund or Bant with all the older cards that I didn't have. It would be that feeling x2.
Exactly what I was thinking. FNM is the gateway for new players to experience tournament Magic, and it's hard enough already to get cards that allow them to be competitive with a 2 year rotation. Making at a 4-year run wouldn't lower prices, it would mean more "staple" cards that go up in price.
Here's how I see this playing out -
WotC, in their usual short-sightedness and willingness to listen to investors rather than people that actually care about the game will not reprint staple modern cards. The format will increasingly grow out of reach for many players, earning its title of "Legacy Lite." 4 or so years down the road, WotC will announce that due to growing frustration of players not being able to afford Modern, they are bringing back Extended in its old 7 year rotation format.
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That makes it really difficult for new players though. I had a rough time building a decent deck when RoE came out because everyone was playing Jund or Bant with all the older cards that I didn't have. It would be that feeling x2.
This, so much. Breaking into magic is already hard, and making the easiest format to get into harder to start up in will only hurt the game. The ability to draft half of all the cards you need is what made it easy for myself and my magic playing friends to build up a tradeable and useable card base. If everything good was from 2 years ago it would have been almost impossible to do anything other than drafting.
This is disappointing. I was looking forward to playing Extended for the first time now that I'd have cards from every set in the format. I didn't play last year because I didn't have any Lorwyn / Shadowmoor cards and didn't want to invest in them. I'm not going to play Modern, at least not for a while. Having to acquire $800ish in shocklands to be competitive in the format doesn't appeal to me. Hopefully, they'll get reprinted soon.
Extended was dead long before the Modern announcement. Extended died with a flippant "by the way" long ago. Everything since then has been one long death rattle.
And now Modern turns "Old Extended" into an "Eternal" format. Go figure.
I think that there initial reveal of the format was what killed it. I mean, they had absolutely no lead up. They could have easily gave us a year's notice to the change, so that players wouldn't get boned immediately after investing into a new deck. At least this time with Modern, cards are being added instead of removed, so people aren't losing investments.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Extended is dead, but really, nothing of value was lost.
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He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered. Trade Thread
Extended is dead, but really, nothing of value was lost.
I don't know about that. I was really looking forward to Extended. Like I said earlier, I had some deck ideas I was going to bring out. Make some decks similar to my standard decks from last year only with some new stuff added. Those decks likely won't be competitive in modern so I lost that opportunity.
I don't know about that. I was really looking forward to Extended. Like I said earlier, I had some deck ideas I was going to bring out. Make some decks similar to my standard decks from last year only with some new stuff added. Those decks likely won't be competitive in modern so I lost that opportunity.
And then you could just lose to Caw Blade/Faeries? Extended is awful right now and it hasn't really been that good since they cut it from 7 to 4 years.
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But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
That makes it really difficult for new players though. I had a rough time building a decent deck when RoE came out because everyone was playing Jund or Bant with all the older cards that I didn't have. It would be that feeling x2.
Exactly what I was thinking. FNM is the gateway for new players to experience tournament Magic, and it's hard enough already to get cards that allow them to be competitive with a 2 year rotation. Making at a 4-year run wouldn't lower prices, it would mean more "staple" cards that go up in price.
This, so much. Breaking into magic is already hard, and making the easiest format to get into harder to start up in will only hurt the game. The ability to draft half of all the cards you need is what made it easy for myself and my magic playing friends to build up a tradeable and useable card base. If everything good was from 2 years ago it would have been almost impossible to do anything other than drafting.
I have to disagree here. As a new player, I wasn't at all interested in Standard because it basically says "get some cards and build a deck; in < 1 year (depending what month you start), half of those cards will be useless; 1 year after that, the rest of those cards will be useless." I think a 3-year "STANDARD" (e.g. bigger "Standard" ;)) wouldn't make it much more difficult, since a decent (tier 2) budget deck can be made from predominantly one block (e.g. allies or artifact affinity or vampires) and a new player can "invest" in those cards (from the current block) knowing that they'll still have some value/use for 2+ years.
I also think this is why Modern > Extended: New players don't want to invest in the more expensive "staples" from an established arch-type knowing that they'll rotate out in a year or two. In Modern, at least there's a good chance those staples aren't going anywhere (price might drop due to reprinting or a strictly better card might get printed, but the card will still see play - unless it gets banned, but that's a less predictable risk).
I don't mind coughing up some dough for an expensive "staple" card that's rising in value (partly because it's rising in value). I do mind if I'm only going to be able to use it for a few months and then be forced to trade it away when it's worth nothing since it's no longer legal in the most popular formats.
*edit* And before somebody says "Why didn't you just play extended, then?" Answer: Because nobody plays extended. Around here, it's Standard, Draft (current block), EDH/Commander, Legacy, and Vintage, in that order. Right now, I'm only playing Legacy and Commander (just FNM; nothing "competitive"), but I'm looking forward to Modern.
The problem with extended, at least the way they changed it was that:
1) standard only players don't want to have to buy older cards to play extended b/c the older cards by nature will rotate out sooner, and besides - they have enough standard events anyways
2) legacy players aren't interested in extended, period.
3) people who did like "old extended" because it was a format with a large card pool largely hated the changes that basically just made extended "super standard."
So if standard players, legacy players, and extended players all hate the format it isn't a surprise at all.
*edit* And before somebody says "Why didn't you just play extended, then?" Answer: Because nobody plays extended. Around here, it's Standard, Draft (current block), EDH/Commander, Legacy, and Vintage, in that order. Right now, I'm only playing Legacy and Commander (just FNM; nothing "competitive"), but I'm looking forward to Modern.
So if standard players, legacy players, and extended players all hate the format it isn't a surprise at all.
While reading through some of the posts, i felt actually the biggest irony was - Extended was never even around in my area. Nobody ever played or discuss extended. It seems to exist only in name.
Extended wasn't dead. It was not even alive to start with.
The arrival of Modern didnt really change anything. In contrast, what it did was give Legacy and Standard another 'second' format to play with.
And i agree totally with Agentdark - nothing of value was lost.
That is kind of sad as extended looks to be a blast this season. I personally have a local game store that is willing to support the format for FNM's and we already have a small local group of players that you can see on occasion practicing it. Garruk Relentless looks absurd in the new breed of jund decks. Also Bloodbraid into Liliana of the Veil. So much value.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
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lol. wotc need to figure out what they are going to do and do it decisively.
Leaving extended is kinda like blowing off your crazy girlfriend for another woman. It solves the problem now, but eventually your going to have to face your problems.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
LOL... Extended has been dieing since they changed it from 7 years to 4 thought. It completely killed the reason people wanted to play extended. People wanted extended to offer a place to play decks with broader synergy that would allow older cards, but not have to deal with legacy prices while still having the ability to keep the format fresh. New extended didn't really do any of that since all it was going to do is rehash standard with minor variations. Then Jace/SFM/Batterskull came up and that just made Extended into Standard #2. Although the bannings and layout of modern are wonky to say the least, they're layed out in such a way that keep the format from being standard #3 and offer a fresh format where new decks that haven't been seen before can emerge and thrive. It's everything people wanted from extended before Wizards ruined it by neutering it to 4 years from 7.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I would be down with that. It would allow me to play with my cool alara cards again like Jund and Naya.
As long as cawblade is neutered of course.
that would make standard a bit cheaper.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
uhh wouldn't you still have one block rotating every year?
Yep the current extended rotates once a year to keep the same number of blocks in it at the same time. It is not like the 7, 8, 6 year extended that rotated whenever Wizards felt like it.
yes but recently bought cards would have 4x the life that they do in standard.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Hell's Card Shoppe
Current Decks
Standard:
Vampires
Merfolk
Phyrexian Blight (UB Infect)
Tempered Skies (Artifact skies)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8122582#post8122582
Exactly what I was thinking. FNM is the gateway for new players to experience tournament Magic, and it's hard enough already to get cards that allow them to be competitive with a 2 year rotation. Making at a 4-year run wouldn't lower prices, it would mean more "staple" cards that go up in price.
Here's how I see this playing out -
WotC, in their usual short-sightedness and willingness to listen to investors rather than people that actually care about the game will not reprint staple modern cards. The format will increasingly grow out of reach for many players, earning its title of "Legacy Lite." 4 or so years down the road, WotC will announce that due to growing frustration of players not being able to afford Modern, they are bringing back Extended in its old 7 year rotation format.
This, so much. Breaking into magic is already hard, and making the easiest format to get into harder to start up in will only hurt the game. The ability to draft half of all the cards you need is what made it easy for myself and my magic playing friends to build up a tradeable and useable card base. If everything good was from 2 years ago it would have been almost impossible to do anything other than drafting.
U/B Control
Modern will never get the name "legacy lite."
I've never even heard someone describe legacy as "vintage light." Admittedly, legacy was started in order to be a form of vintage light.
Legacy:WUBG Jace Rock
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I think that there initial reveal of the format was what killed it. I mean, they had absolutely no lead up. They could have easily gave us a year's notice to the change, so that players wouldn't get boned immediately after investing into a new deck. At least this time with Modern, cards are being added instead of removed, so people aren't losing investments.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread
I don't know about that. I was really looking forward to Extended. Like I said earlier, I had some deck ideas I was going to bring out. Make some decks similar to my standard decks from last year only with some new stuff added. Those decks likely won't be competitive in modern so I lost that opportunity.
And then you could just lose to Caw Blade/Faeries? Extended is awful right now and it hasn't really been that good since they cut it from 7 to 4 years.
I have to disagree here. As a new player, I wasn't at all interested in Standard because it basically says "get some cards and build a deck; in < 1 year (depending what month you start), half of those cards will be useless; 1 year after that, the rest of those cards will be useless." I think a 3-year "STANDARD" (e.g. bigger "Standard" ;)) wouldn't make it much more difficult, since a decent (tier 2) budget deck can be made from predominantly one block (e.g. allies or artifact affinity or vampires) and a new player can "invest" in those cards (from the current block) knowing that they'll still have some value/use for 2+ years.
I also think this is why Modern > Extended: New players don't want to invest in the more expensive "staples" from an established arch-type knowing that they'll rotate out in a year or two. In Modern, at least there's a good chance those staples aren't going anywhere (price might drop due to reprinting or a strictly better card might get printed, but the card will still see play - unless it gets banned, but that's a less predictable risk).
I don't mind coughing up some dough for an expensive "staple" card that's rising in value (partly because it's rising in value). I do mind if I'm only going to be able to use it for a few months and then be forced to trade it away when it's worth nothing since it's no longer legal in the most popular formats.
*edit* And before somebody says "Why didn't you just play extended, then?" Answer: Because nobody plays extended. Around here, it's Standard, Draft (current block), EDH/Commander, Legacy, and Vintage, in that order. Right now, I'm only playing Legacy and Commander (just FNM; nothing "competitive"), but I'm looking forward to Modern.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
1) standard only players don't want to have to buy older cards to play extended b/c the older cards by nature will rotate out sooner, and besides - they have enough standard events anyways
2) legacy players aren't interested in extended, period.
3) people who did like "old extended" because it was a format with a large card pool largely hated the changes that basically just made extended "super standard."
So if standard players, legacy players, and extended players all hate the format it isn't a surprise at all.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
While reading through some of the posts, i felt actually the biggest irony was - Extended was never even around in my area. Nobody ever played or discuss extended. It seems to exist only in name.
Extended wasn't dead. It was not even alive to start with.
The arrival of Modern didnt really change anything. In contrast, what it did was give Legacy and Standard another 'second' format to play with.
And i agree totally with Agentdark - nothing of value was lost.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
It is tenth from the top on the Extended board.
That's a pretty big statement itself.