okay, so I'm trying to figure out when it's a good time to upgrade to t3 boots, and tbh I don't ever really see it being a good idea :S
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For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
okay, so I'm trying to figure out when it's a good time to upgrade to t3 boots, and tbh I don't ever really see it being a good idea :S
Upgrade to homeguard when the enemy lays siege to your inhibitor turrets? I was watching a game that RumbleMidGG was in and there was a Poppy carry (with a Karma support o_O) that upgraded to Furore when teamfights were in full swing so she chould chase with melee. Seemed pretty decent, they ended up winning that game and Poppy was fed.
Well I won't be playing ranked for the next couple of days. On another topic, has anyone done to math on maramune? Is it worth grabbing on champs like Corki, Yorick, etc.?
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
What do you think of the Pickpocket mastery? I like that it encourages harass, but outside of support, how many people do you see taking it?
Will it provide enough gold to outweigh losing most of the offensive tree for an ADC?
I've tried it on a couple supports and I don't think it's worth it in most cases even there. The cooldown kills it. You're better off putting a point somewhere elsewhere, because if that point cinches a kill or a save you've just clinched as much gold advantage as pickpocket'd give you.
It'd be pretty interesting, I think, to have it true to it's name. You actually take some gold. At that point it'd have to be also have a longer cd or something but it'd be really fun to actually steal enemy ADC gold as a support.
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"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
They gave my Cass Liandry's Torment...in what world would you think this is a good idea? I bought that item and I was melting people so freaking fast. BFT wasn't good enough for her they had to even make it better with the slow effect...just the absurdity of what Cass is capable of with this item confounds me that they would even put it in the game it really does.
Iceborn Gauntlet or whatever it's called seems overpowered as hell.
I don't want to say it's overpowered, but it felt pretty awesome when I played it on Ryze yesterday evening. I was only durdling around in Co-op vs. AI, but I like that it uses up two of the Sapphire Crystal items I usually build on Ryze anyway, freeing up some later room to build honest AP items.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
What do you think of the Pickpocket mastery? I like that it encourages harass, but outside of support, how many people do you see taking it?
Will it provide enough gold to outweigh losing most of the offensive tree for an ADC?
TBH I can't tell but I'm going to go ahead and say mostly likely no. Carries are still going to get plenty of gold from cs and I don't think losing the offensive tree is worth getting a bit more gold.
Iceborn Gauntlet or whatever it's called seems overpowered as hell.
I just tested Yorick, and he's a freaking nightmare with his stacked Muramana and Iceborn Gauntlet. He still has his early-mid game lane presence, but now feel he can be a decent threat on his own in mid-late while still being tanky as hell.
TBH I can't tell but I'm going to go ahead and say mostly likely no. Carries are still going to get plenty of gold from cs and I don't think losing the offensive tree is worth getting a bit more gold.
This is true but supports absolutely love this mastery, especially Sona since you will do plenty of AAing with her in combination with her Q poke. If you get plenty of it, it REALLY helps the support snowball along with the ADC.
Great talent to help supports and will promote even more aggressiveness in bot lane.
How do the new enhancement on boots come into play for item building? would you buy them to top off your item builds after you've built your items, or would you rush them right away akin to finishing boots in season 2?
How do the changes presented in the new patch mix up starting item builds out of the gate?
- Because champions were given 20 speed automatically from the boots, its less of an imperative to get the starting boots out of the gate, allowing for some other combinations
- Utility tree masteries are now relevant, and should be taken into account, because the muffin and the sight ward can potentially allow for more support oriented builds to save on money that they can easier build into earlier items and keep step with nonsupport champs better
- Other miscellaneous alterations on how things work affect this too seemingly
As for now I'm still going to standard boots n pots as in s2 until something is proven better.
Is this the right mindset and is there anything I'm overlooking?
How do the new enhancement on boots come into play for item building? would you buy them to top off your item builds after you've built your items, or would you rush them right away akin to finishing boots in season 2?
For me it depends. If say I'm jungling Shyvana and I find I am having to run all over the bloody map between lanes, dragons, and counter jungling then I get my boot enchants pretty quickly, normally I will have Phage and Wriggles by the time I do it.
When I play APC though I have yet to actually get to the point that I will buy it. This is normally because I play APs like Ahri and Cass who have strong mobility built into them so I would say in this case they would be the last thing I would buy.
Generally I think like most items and builds it's gonna depend on your roll, champ, match-up and way the game is going.
EDIT--Anyone else notice an influx of players that want to do the dumbest things possible to "challenge the meta." Personally I'm fine with it to an extent but not to the point of no ADC or forcing an ADC to top against someone like Lee Sin. Really wish if people want to try and challenge the meta they would just keep it in their premades and out of randoms >.<
For me it depends. If say I'm jungling Shyvana and I find I am having to run all over the bloody map between lanes, dragons, and counter jungling then I get my boot enchants pretty quickly, normally I will have Phage and Wriggles by the time I do it.
When I play APC though I have yet to actually get to the point that I will buy it. This is normally because I play APs like Ahri and Cass who have strong mobility built into them so I would say in this case they would be the last thing I would buy.
Generally I think like most items and builds it's gonna depend on your roll, champ, match-up and way the game is going.
I think that the diversification that Riot was striving for is going to really make an impact- like there isn't just one go-to item for a certain role anymore, and there are several routes to doing something successful. With that in mind, building against your opponent's build will be a little bit more difficult as well seemingly.
Even though it seems like they put a couple of broken things in the new mix and then nerfed everything else, I feel like the upcoming metagame is going to be really healthy and allow for alot of underused champs to be given merit this run around.
Another thing that has come to mind: I think that there will be more 'correct' mastery builds- like 9/21/0 arent going to be the only two spread combinations seen, the utility tree actually is substantial.
How do the new enhancement on boots come into play for item building? would you buy them to top off your item builds after you've built your items, or would you rush them right away akin to finishing boots in season 2?
I'd say l2 boots weren't like that in S2. I mean sure in some cases they were, e.g. jungling, but since they're pretty inefficient for trading damage in general cases (and excluding sorceror's) it wasn't always the best idea to finish them right away. Which is funny because now I believe the knife thing is the best start for most junglers.
Anyway in my experience so far, I'm falling into generally finishing some sort of core before even worrying about boot enchants, and sometimes delaying them further because they are quite expensive. The biggest exception to this is that when supporting I've been building them relatively early, because I think Captain is pretty damn helpful to the team for just 750g... and also because the removal of HoG and addition of sightstone really changed up the way supports use gold over the various stages of a match. It seems like a good way to use up the relatively large pile of gold I end up accumulating immediately after I've bought the sightstone. quote]As for now I'm still going to standard boots n pots as in s2 until something is proven better.
Is this the right mindset and is there anything I'm overlooking?[/QUOTE] It's still a solid choice, but it's not like late s2 where you were essentially crazy to do anything but boots+pots except as support or top. I've seen people take a book mid and it seems to be a reasonable option, and I'd be really surprised if we don't see some ADCs (particularly the mobile/high range ones like Cait) taking dorans blades again occasionally for specific bot matchups.
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I think that the diversification that Riot was striving for is going to really make an impact- like there isn't just one go-to item for a certain role anymore, and there are several routes to doing something successful.
So far I agree with this, but I'm hesitant to say that many roles won't fall into a pretty specific build order again.
It already seems to me like there's a pretty strict thing to do with supports - get sightstone ASAP after phil stone or kage's, delay boots as much as possible and use masteries to shore up the speed loss, then build auras/vis wards/oracles like before. I'll grant that I haven't really been watching pros play or anything but the value of a gold/5 and sightstone seem so high that I don't really see how anything else could be better in a general situation for most supports.
Thoughts on new Jungle from someone who mains Jungle:
It's bad. It's so bad. I end up so far behind in gold and in levels while Riot tries to pass it off as a buff to the jungle overall. Doubled HP on Wolves and increased their damage and increased the gold from it by 2. Wraiths give LESS gold now. They desperately need to adjust the numbers on gold from the jungle. Instead of making it more enticing to farm, it essentially forces you into a game of doing nothing but ganking. I'm considering calling Mid or Support in my ranked queues now.
Otherwise, though, Trundle and Tiger Udyr are great. They both clear really fast and might be the only two that make up for the huge nerf to the jungle.
Also the IMMENSE nerf to Oracle's Elixir hurts a lot. 5 minute duration and you only get 10 gold from Sightstone wards? Lame, homie. Only worth grabbing Oracle to try to Baron.
Thoughts on new Jungle from someone who mains Jungle:
It's bad. It's so bad. I end up so far behind in gold and in levels while Riot tries to pass it off as a buff to the jungle overall. Doubled HP on Wolves and increased their damage and increased the gold from it by 2. Wraiths give LESS gold now. They desperately need to adjust the numbers on gold from the jungle. Instead of making it more enticing to farm, it essentially forces you into a game of doing nothing but ganking. I'm considering calling Mid or Support in my ranked queues now.
Otherwise, though, Trundle and Tiger Udyr are great. They both clear really fast and might be the only two that make up for the huge nerf to the jungle.
Also the IMMENSE nerf to Oracle's Elixir hurts a lot. 5 minute duration and you only get 10 gold from Sightstone wards? Lame, homie. Only worth grabbing Oracle to try to Baron.
I don't get this from the jungle to be honest. So far my playing of it has been limited to Shyvana, and one game as Noc that saw me repetatively getting 3v1 in my own jungle with no help so take it for what it's worth.
The new jungle make counter jungling a lot stronger while keeping ganking important. I find that I have no problem in keeping up in levels, and many times I've even out leveled laners before. The fast junglers like Shyvana seemed to of gotten insanely strong and from what I have seen of the ganking junglers they depend so heavily on getting those ganks off that if you don't you will get more behind now than you ever used to, especially if you get counter jungled.
If you're still out leveling your laners past minute 7 (when you have to give away Blue buff typically) then your laners are doing something wrong. That's also when your gold drops off. Your second clear of the jungle (assmung no successful gank for sake of argument) will leave you with less gold than your second clear through the jungle (again, no gank) in Season 2 would have. Not to mention that they didn't really make it more difficult for mid lane to take wolves or wraiths or for bot lane to take golems when they normally would, resulting in a much lower overall income level. Due to current meta of giving away Blue and often even Red (esp. at 12min forward) income is really a problem.
Shyvana, Gangplank, Lee Sin, and Diana are the only junglers I haven't tried yet. I've had the same results as my previous narrative with Nocturne, Nautilus, Olaf, Xin Zhao, Udyr, Trundle, Pantheon, Talon, Tryndamere, Sejuani, Darius . . . you name it. Jungle Vayne is even worse now =P
Revision: I haven't tried the AP Jungles, either. Karthus, Gragas, and Fiddlesticks have yet to be attempted.
If you're still out leveling your laners past minute 7 (when you have to give away Blue buff typically) then your laners are doing something wrong. That's also when your gold drops off. Your second clear of the jungle (assmung no successful gank for sake of argument) will leave you with less gold than your second clear through the jungle (again, no gank) in Season 2 would have. Not to mention that they didn't really make it more difficult for mid lane to take wolves or wraiths or for bot lane to take golems when they normally would, resulting in a much lower overall income level. Due to current meta of giving away Blue and often even Red (esp. at 12min forward) income is really a problem.
Shyvana, Gangplank, Lee Sin, and Diana are the only junglers I haven't tried yet. I've had the same results as my previous narrative with Nocturne, Nautilus, Olaf, Xin Zhao, Udyr, Trundle, Pantheon, Talon, Tryndamere, Sejuani, Darius . . . you name it. Jungle Vayne is even worse now =P
Revision: I haven't tried the AP Jungles, either. Karthus, Gragas, and Fiddlesticks have yet to be attempted.
This is why I said it focuses more emphesis on counter jungling. I don't out level and keep pace with my laners because I farm my jungle and gank all day, although that is part of it. I keep pace with them because I am always stealing enemy buffs and jungle camps and staying on top of dragons. Not gonna tell you the jungle is easier than it was, because it isn't, but if you can stay on top of everything required it's very reasonable for you to keep pace with your laners levels, and at times out level them.
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Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Upgrade to homeguard when the enemy lays siege to your inhibitor turrets?
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It'd be pretty interesting, I think, to have it true to it's name. You actually take some gold. At that point it'd have to be also have a longer cd or something but it'd be really fun to actually steal enemy ADC gold as a support.
Updated 11/01/13
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I don't want to say it's overpowered, but it felt pretty awesome when I played it on Ryze yesterday evening. I was only durdling around in Co-op vs. AI, but I like that it uses up two of the Sapphire Crystal items I usually build on Ryze anyway, freeing up some later room to build honest AP items.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
TBH I can't tell but I'm going to go ahead and say mostly likely no. Carries are still going to get plenty of gold from cs and I don't think losing the offensive tree is worth getting a bit more gold.
I just tested Yorick, and he's a freaking nightmare with his stacked Muramana and Iceborn Gauntlet. He still has his early-mid game lane presence, but now feel he can be a decent threat on his own in mid-late while still being tanky as hell.
This is true but supports absolutely love this mastery, especially Sona since you will do plenty of AAing with her in combination with her Q poke. If you get plenty of it, it REALLY helps the support snowball along with the ADC.
Great talent to help supports and will promote even more aggressiveness in bot lane.
How do the changes presented in the new patch mix up starting item builds out of the gate?
- Because champions were given 20 speed automatically from the boots, its less of an imperative to get the starting boots out of the gate, allowing for some other combinations
- Utility tree masteries are now relevant, and should be taken into account, because the muffin and the sight ward can potentially allow for more support oriented builds to save on money that they can easier build into earlier items and keep step with nonsupport champs better
- Other miscellaneous alterations on how things work affect this too seemingly
As for now I'm still going to standard boots n pots as in s2 until something is proven better.
Is this the right mindset and is there anything I'm overlooking?
For me it depends. If say I'm jungling Shyvana and I find I am having to run all over the bloody map between lanes, dragons, and counter jungling then I get my boot enchants pretty quickly, normally I will have Phage and Wriggles by the time I do it.
When I play APC though I have yet to actually get to the point that I will buy it. This is normally because I play APs like Ahri and Cass who have strong mobility built into them so I would say in this case they would be the last thing I would buy.
Generally I think like most items and builds it's gonna depend on your roll, champ, match-up and way the game is going.
EDIT--Anyone else notice an influx of players that want to do the dumbest things possible to "challenge the meta." Personally I'm fine with it to an extent but not to the point of no ADC or forcing an ADC to top against someone like Lee Sin. Really wish if people want to try and challenge the meta they would just keep it in their premades and out of randoms >.<
I think that the diversification that Riot was striving for is going to really make an impact- like there isn't just one go-to item for a certain role anymore, and there are several routes to doing something successful. With that in mind, building against your opponent's build will be a little bit more difficult as well seemingly.
Even though it seems like they put a couple of broken things in the new mix and then nerfed everything else, I feel like the upcoming metagame is going to be really healthy and allow for alot of underused champs to be given merit this run around.
Another thing that has come to mind: I think that there will be more 'correct' mastery builds- like 9/21/0 arent going to be the only two spread combinations seen, the utility tree actually is substantial.
Sweetness.
I'm excited for Amumu.
Anyway in my experience so far, I'm falling into generally finishing some sort of core before even worrying about boot enchants, and sometimes delaying them further because they are quite expensive. The biggest exception to this is that when supporting I've been building them relatively early, because I think Captain is pretty damn helpful to the team for just 750g... and also because the removal of HoG and addition of sightstone really changed up the way supports use gold over the various stages of a match. It seems like a good way to use up the relatively large pile of gold I end up accumulating immediately after I've bought the sightstone. quote]As for now I'm still going to standard boots n pots as in s2 until something is proven better.
Is this the right mindset and is there anything I'm overlooking?[/QUOTE] It's still a solid choice, but it's not like late s2 where you were essentially crazy to do anything but boots+pots except as support or top. I've seen people take a book mid and it seems to be a reasonable option, and I'd be really surprised if we don't see some ADCs (particularly the mobile/high range ones like Cait) taking dorans blades again occasionally for specific bot matchups. So far I agree with this, but I'm hesitant to say that many roles won't fall into a pretty specific build order again.
It already seems to me like there's a pretty strict thing to do with supports - get sightstone ASAP after phil stone or kage's, delay boots as much as possible and use masteries to shore up the speed loss, then build auras/vis wards/oracles like before. I'll grant that I haven't really been watching pros play or anything but the value of a gold/5 and sightstone seem so high that I don't really see how anything else could be better in a general situation for most supports.
It's bad. It's so bad. I end up so far behind in gold and in levels while Riot tries to pass it off as a buff to the jungle overall. Doubled HP on Wolves and increased their damage and increased the gold from it by 2. Wraiths give LESS gold now. They desperately need to adjust the numbers on gold from the jungle. Instead of making it more enticing to farm, it essentially forces you into a game of doing nothing but ganking. I'm considering calling Mid or Support in my ranked queues now.
Otherwise, though, Trundle and Tiger Udyr are great. They both clear really fast and might be the only two that make up for the huge nerf to the jungle.
Also the IMMENSE nerf to Oracle's Elixir hurts a lot. 5 minute duration and you only get 10 gold from Sightstone wards? Lame, homie. Only worth grabbing Oracle to try to Baron.
Map control = game control.
Before it was too easy to control the map through an early oracles.
I don't get this from the jungle to be honest. So far my playing of it has been limited to Shyvana, and one game as Noc that saw me repetatively getting 3v1 in my own jungle with no help so take it for what it's worth.
The new jungle make counter jungling a lot stronger while keeping ganking important. I find that I have no problem in keeping up in levels, and many times I've even out leveled laners before. The fast junglers like Shyvana seemed to of gotten insanely strong and from what I have seen of the ganking junglers they depend so heavily on getting those ganks off that if you don't you will get more behind now than you ever used to, especially if you get counter jungled.
Shyvana, Gangplank, Lee Sin, and Diana are the only junglers I haven't tried yet. I've had the same results as my previous narrative with Nocturne, Nautilus, Olaf, Xin Zhao, Udyr, Trundle, Pantheon, Talon, Tryndamere, Sejuani, Darius . . . you name it. Jungle Vayne is even worse now =P
Revision: I haven't tried the AP Jungles, either. Karthus, Gragas, and Fiddlesticks have yet to be attempted.
This is why I said it focuses more emphesis on counter jungling. I don't out level and keep pace with my laners because I farm my jungle and gank all day, although that is part of it. I keep pace with them because I am always stealing enemy buffs and jungle camps and staying on top of dragons. Not gonna tell you the jungle is easier than it was, because it isn't, but if you can stay on top of everything required it's very reasonable for you to keep pace with your laners levels, and at times out level them.