The problem is nerfing the jungle isn't the answer. Junglers need an effective source of gold to be able to farm to play catchup. By buffing the monsters but not returns all you accomplish is making gank centric junglers the ONLY option and completly destroying farm and counterjunglers.
We've actually been working on changes for the jungle in anticipation for Season 3 and though I can't really give all the details here because we are still iterating, I'd like to give you guys some insights into what's going on.
There are a multitude of issues we're tackling and they are very much intertwined. The current dominant jungle strategy (GP10 Support / Tanks) is fairly stagnant and the overall current jungle playstyle in many cases severely limits potential strategy and choices in other lanes/roles as well.
One large problem is that efficient farming of the jungle has very little pay off compared to constantly applying lane pressure by camping / ganking. Overall junglers severely lack in gold unless they successfully gank and snowball the game from the get-go and/or opt for a GP10 strategy.
The approach we're currently taking is to significantly increase the rewards of jungle camps over time (junglers already have a huge impact on the early game). To go along with this though, we are buffing jungle camps back up to actually be more threatening while simultaneously offering new / improved item paths that allow players to specialize in the jungle. Overall we want junglers to be rewarded for building combat stats rather than always being forced to build gold generation items.
This is not the only thing we're changing in the jungle for next season, but these types of things are definitely on our radar.
In some ways, yes, though not completely.
We aren't going all the way back to the extreme of the old jungle where you would just get crushed unless you were Warwick, but we do feel there is a happy medium between Season 1 and Season 2 that we can strike.
The biggest difference here though is that we will be offering itemization that will help champions who need that extra boost in the jungle. Champions who are already super strong in the jungle may opt to not build these items, but it's pretty interesting to see what new junglers may become viable with these new items.
Well a lot of the directional changes we're making for Season 3 are to make sure there are niches for the various jungle types.
For example, the nerfing of the jungle camps' damage really left no room for "safe" junglers such as Warwick since sustain was no longer a thing. Everyone can just clear with Boots + Health Pots and apply pressure to lanes.
When we do these changes for Season 3, there may be some junglers who are simply too strong in too many categories and we'll have to address that in the context of the new jungle. Overall though, we're looking to make sure there's a reason to bring X jungler over Y jungler depending on the situation.
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Yes... But it's a pretty ****ty steroid. Increased damage for 1 in 7 shots is pretty lackluster and nearly every champion has a better steroid than her. Ashe is just about the only other one and even then you aren't picking Ashe for the damage.
Caitlyn has the highest AA range in the game at level one, it's one of the most important things an AD carry can have. It lets them harass easily without putting themselves at risk. Having a range advantage on your opponents means you can exploit it to get free damage on them.
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Yes... But it's a pretty ****ty steroid. Increased damage for 1 in 7 shots is pretty lackluster and nearly every champion has a better steroid than her. Ashe is just about the only other one and even then you aren't picking Ashe for the damage.
Caitlyn has the highest AA range in the game at level one, it's one of the most important things an AD carry can have. It lets them harass easily without putting themselves at risk. Having a range advantage on your opponents means you can exploit it to get free damage on them.
Good Cait players can easily harass you out of lane and CS excellently, all without the possibility of being harassed back.
I don't even count passives as steroids because they're just going to be poor steroids, at least on ranged champs. The fact that Trist's (for example) runs out is inconsequential when you've killed two people with it, and you can bet it'd be a lot ****tier if it was passive.
There are some exceptions, like that of Zed and Galio that're just ****ing ridiculous steroids even though they're passive, and... I guess Riven passive counts as a steroid, in a weird way.
Quote from areostatico »
Good Cait players can easily harass you out of lane and CS excellently, all without the possibility of being harassed back.
Yea, that and her trap interactions are all she really has.
Actually, her ult also makes some good "ganks" if you're smart about doing it. The range is so long that it doesn't waste much time and you can easily miss no or very few creeps when you time it right. People never expect it either so it works quite well when I do it, kind of like a single lane, high damage karth ult that noone expects but takes a little setup.
Is Galio not a proper mid (counterpick) or is he just something that's rare to see?
My most recent ranked game, I was second pick while the other team picked Annie as their first pick. After some discussion, I grabbed Blitzcrank for our team, with the understanding that I would trade it for Galio. A few people on my team were very hesitant about picking him, but I assured them I thought it was a solid choice as a counterpick.
I have a rune page just for Galio that stacks up flat MR for the early game and I used a mastery page - 0/21/9, with lots of tankiness, MR, and mana regen. I dominated the mid lane to the point that Annie said in all chat that this was really an unfair matchup (she doesn't have a good escape or silence like Kass and it's relatively easy to play around her stun) and she started roaming towards bot, and I got the first turret and pushed for the second turret before bot got their turret. I also roamed a bit and helped out in team fights with my ult, and I ended up with a 5-1-6 score, which I think is very respectable (I died to an Olaf gank - lots of physical and true damage).
He's a really strong pick for mid, people just don't like to see it because he doesn't really carry games and they think of mids as carries (at least for early teamfights if not also later)
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i think Caitlyn is a troll pick and honestly has always been. Everything she does at least 6 other carries do better and they don't have unreliable ultimates either.
I wasn't aware that 6 other carries had the longest harass range in the game as far as bot lane is concerned, could snare you in place and keep vision on you with the same skill, and escape while slowing their attacker.
if you don't win your lane you have a high chance of losing the game.
You pick Cait in order to win your lane.
She gives up all that just for 50 more range over Ashe ?
Her Q goes far as hell and her passive is great for harassing in lane. And Ashe doesn't have a trap.
Quote from GLJ »
Yes... But it's a pretty ****ty steroid. Increased damage for 1 in 7 shots is pretty lackluster and nearly every champion has a better steroid than her. Ashe is just about the only other one and even then you aren't picking Ashe for the damage.
Its only 1 in 7 attacks if you aren't ever shooting from the bush. On average for me it's about 1 in every 3-4 attacks. Power shot plus Q is pretty massive damage for the range she can dish it at.
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Which one has better early game AA range and which one has a better unblockable skillshot at long range?
She's definitely underpowered right now but what you're saying is a bit ridiculous. For one, she was quite strong for a brief period.
Her ultimate is also reliable in many circumstances. If you don't use it stupidly it's 100% reliable - the same as the other ultimates. Actually, perhaps even better, because flash ****s up nearly every ADC ultimate but not hers.
I'm not going to argue that her ult is powerful, but reliable is the one thing it IS (on top of long range). Situational =/= unreliable. Or else graves' ult is unreliable because you can't use it when someone is blocking from afar, or when they have a quick escape ready. Kog's ult is unreliable when they aren't rooted. Ashe's is unreliable when they aren't rooted, close, blind to you or at least moving parallel to its direction. Draven's is unreliable with a quick escape, or when they can see you, etc. You say that like it's not significant. Range is arguably the very most important thing for an ADC to have in farming, teamfighting AND 1v1.
Kog with W. Trist outranges her at level 12 if I'm not mistaken.
No. She was only strong for a brief time just because they nerfed all the other ranged carries hard (MF, Twitch, Ez, Corki). She had a slap on the wrist with 5 less MS removed from her and nobody played her since.
Her ultimate is not reliable simply because it's so easy to disrupt. Also most of the time when you are using her ultimate at an enemy one of your teammates will probably kill the intended target before Cait finishes channeling it. The fact that it can be blocked by tanks is another strike against it.
I have seen very good Kog players use their ultimate in rapid succession hitting the same target no matter where they move. Cait's ultimate is just a single target damage ability. Kog's reveals enemies. Graves is a completely different carry as he is focused on being close to point blank range range to max his damage. Sivir gives free stats for your team. Ashe can still set up her ultimate by kiting. Draven has 2 chances for his ultimate to hit.
If that was true Cait's endgame woudn't be terrible compared to other adc's. Graves late game is better than Caits. He has a huge steroid and is capable at constantly repositioning himself if you have 2.0 AS end game. MF's end game is better because she has a built in healing debuffer which counters a lot of tanky dps and and adc's who have Bloodthirster that also functions as medium sized AS increase. Her ultimate does a lot of damage in team fights. Sivir end game is better because she has a free Banshee's and gives everyone on your team higher AS, higher MS and has an auto attack reset. Ashe's endgame is better she can kite anyone to death and has the strongest initiation ability in the game next to a really good Amummu who can land his Bandage Toss following up with his ultimate.
Quote from "areostatico" »
Good Cait players can easily harass you out of lane and CS excellently, all without the possibility of being harassed back.
That only happens to me when I play as Graves yet somehow I still manage to comeback by getting random double kills and by not making stupid mistakes winning the game.
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You pick Cait in order to win your lane
You also pick Draven, Ez, Graves and MF for that too except they scale better than her.
Kog's W has a long cooldown. As for trist, i said early game, since it's integral to your laning phase.
Essence flux does **** damage and I believe has a shorter range. Sivir's boomerang travels more slowly and I believe now lower damage even when it hits twice, although the animation is much quicker. Varus' piercing arrow is true, although you have to prepare and charge it, moving slowly... it's not a very comparable mechanic to the ability to piltover someone as they step on your trap or get ccd in some other fashion.
She had a slap on the wrist with 5 less MS removed from her and nobody played her since.
Her ultimate is not reliable simply because it's so easy to disrupt. Also most of the time when you are using her ultimate at an enemy one of your teammates will probably kill the intended target before Cait finishes channeling it. The fact that it can be blocked by tanks is another strike against it.
The only legitimate point here is the last one. It's only easy to disrupt if you use it poorly - is kennen ult **** too because of knockbacks? **** no, it's amazing. The pure ****ing range on this ability means you should never ever ever be in range to be stunned out of the (now very short, that's another thing that was buffed by the way) cast. If the target dies while you're casting, the CD doesn't activate - meanwhile you've just provided security in case they manage to escape! Even flashing can't save them once your ult is going!
...Unless, your last point, they flash behind or otherwise block it with a tank. That's it's biggest flaw. Well that and the fact that it's generally a dps loss when you can AA instead.
I have seen very good Kog players use their ultimate in rapid succession hitting the same target no matter where they move.
Physically impossible unless the enemy is slowed - you can dodge kog's ult with r1 boots, and maybe even without boots I'm not sure. Yes you can aim it well, you can zone with it, you can lead it and have a high probability of hitting, but someone focusing on dodging it can dodge it very easily if they're moving reasonably fast.
Cait's ultimate is just a single target damage ability. Kog's reveals enemies. Graves is a completely different carry as he is focused on being close to point blank range range to max his damage. Sivir gives free stats for your team. Ashe can still set up her ultimate by kiting. Draven has 2 chances for his ultimate to hit.
I know all these things. Although I have to say, if you miss the first part of Draven ult... it's very rare that you can pull off the second. In any case - yes the abilities are all different. In some ways each of them are better than cait's. I'm just saying that they are in ways worse, and there are situations in which you bet your ass I'd rather have cait's, and where hers is more "reliable".
It's "JUST" a single target damage ability? No. It's a single target damage ability with ridiculous range. That can't be stopped except by blocking or ccing cait (which shouldn't be possible). That does quite massive damage and is absurdly easy to land considering its range. Compare to the draven and ashe ults that you can flash, and are particularly easy to avoid if you have sight of draven/ashe, and that have long travel times and do less damage.
If that was true Cait's endgame woudn't be terrible compared to other adc's.
It's not terrible, you're overstating it. Look at your evidence here - you just say "x's lategame is better because of this qualitative difference, because x has a y that cait doesn't have". Cait has things they don't have either. Just because they have a tool she doesn't have doesn't mean they're better. Again, she is not very strong right now, but her lategame is not terrible provided you do well in the earlier stages of the game, where she shines.
You also pick Draven, Ez, Graves and MF for that too except they scale better than her.
Uh, under different situations. You pick MF against my cait any day of the week buddy and you'll see how that lane matchup goes. Here's a hint: superior range completely and utterly ****s over people who don't have mobility. Strut does nothing when I can remove it the instant you go for a cs, and then I still have an innate flash via my net.
Uh, under different situations. You pick MF against my cait any day of the week buddy and you'll see how that lane matchup goes. Here's a hint: superior range completely and utterly ****s over people who don't have mobility. Strut does nothing when I can remove it the instant you go for a cs, and then I still have an innate flash via my net.
And then their support jumps out of the bush and stuns you, and you wind up dead because you're super far forward, or MF E's from nearly double your AA range to force you back, or Double-Up a creep near you from outside your AA range.
All Cait really has going for her is a slightly better early game due to her range, and her ult. Once your lane opponent hits 6, you aren't going to be doing much to them anymore.
Not all supports have a stun. In fact, most don't. MF's double shot is not as powerful as Caitlyn's power shot into Piltover, and it's a lot easier to anticipate. MF's slow is rather irrelevant, Caitlyn has net and traps.
You also pick Draven, Ez, Graves and MF for that too except they scale better than her.
And she will beat them all in lane. Draven's range is too low, MF will lose her MS as soon as she comes in range to cs, and Ez will have to get in front of the creeps to harass her. All of these characters scale better, but they don't have the raw power that Caitlyn has in a lane and at such a range. If she gets an advantage, she can beat them mid game.
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Kog's W has a long cooldown. As for trist, i said early game, since it's integral to your laning phase.
Essence flux does **** damage and I believe has a shorter range.
Still does more damage than Peacemaker unless there are no creeps in the way.
Quote from "Feathas" »
Sivir's boomerang travels more slowly and I believe now lower damage even when it hits twice, although the animation is much quicker
Still does more damage and is faster than Peacemaker.
Quote from "Feathas" »
Varus' piercing arrow is true, although you have to prepare and charge it, moving slowly... it's not a very comparable mechanic to the ability to piltover someone as they step on your trap or get ccd in some other fashion.
He can charge it from afar where he is safe from harass. Does HP damage in addition to physical damage. He can also set it up with his slow.
That's still very ignificant because MF had every single one her abilities nerfed including her passive in rapid sucession. Twitch was gutted getting getting nerfed 7 of the next 8 patches in a row becoming a troll pick. Ez had his heal removed, his base stats lowered, lowered damage on his Q by over 15% and had it's range lowered. Corki's R had it's damage lowered by 50% while the mana cost was increased on it. His Q had it's base damage lowered and no longer granted stealth vision.
So yeah. Riot overnerfed other ADC's so a new FOTM emerged because she kept on getting buffs due to her awful release. Even before the MS nerfing patch on her people still played her heavily just because the others were in bad shape.
Quote from "Feathas" »
The only legitimate point here is the last one. It's only easy to disrupt if you use it poorly - is kennen ult **** too because of knockbacks?
No because Kennen has Zhonyas, can stun the person with the knockback without using his ultimate and has Lighting Rush. His ultimate is a game changer and he can protect himself. Completely different comparison...
Quote from "Feathas" »
The pure ****ing range on this ability means you should never ever ever be in range to be stunned out of the (now very short, that's another thing that was buffed by the way) cast. If the target dies while you're casting, the CD doesn't activate - meanwhile you've just provided security in case they manage to escape! Even flashing can't save them once your ult is going!
The used to matter but almost everyone has a gapcloser with a silence, stun or knockup. The cast time on it is still bad. For a similar comparison I notice MF's R being much better after the wind up time was lowered.
Unless you target someone who can dodge it (Fizz, Vlad or Elise. Maybe Jax ???)
Quote from "Feathas" »
...Unless, your last point, they flash behind or otherwise block it with a tank. That's it's biggest flaw. Well that and the fact that it's generally a dps loss when you can AA instead
This is one of the reasons Cait falls of. Early game abilities do more damage while late game AA is better. MF, Graves, Ashe and Sivir still use their ultimate without a DPS loss (MF and Graves don't suffer it in teamfights). By that stage of the game of the game Trist fulfills the safe adc role much better with higher range, better escapes and has a massive as steroid.
Quote from "Feathas" »
Physically impossible unless the enemy is slowed - you can dodge kog's ult with r1 boots, and maybe even without boots I'm not sure. Yes you can aim it well, you can zone with it, you can lead it and have a high probability of hitting, but someone focusing on dodging it can dodge it very easily if they're moving reasonably fast. I know all these things.
I've seen it and it's legit. Enemy champion is moving and Kog uses his ultimate in the direction that they are going. Kog hits enemy 3-4 times in a row.
Quote from "Feathas »
It's "JUST" a single target damage ability? No. It's a single target damage ability with ridiculous range. That can't be stopped except by blocking or ccing cait (which shouldn't be possible). That does quite massive damage and is absurdly easy to land considering its range. Compare to the draven and ashe ults that you can flash, and are particularly easy to avoid if you have sight of draven/ashe, and that have long travel times and do less damage. It's not terrible, you're overstating it. Look at your evidence here - you just say "x's lategame is better because of this qualitative difference, because x has a y that cait doesn't have". Cait has things they don't have either. Just because they have a tool she doesn't have doesn't mean they're better. Again, she is not very strong right now, but her lategame is not terrible provided you do well in the earlier stages of the game, where she shines. Uh, under different situations. You pick MF against my cait any day of the week buddy and you'll see how that lane matchup goes. Here's a hint: superior range completely and utterly ****s over people who don't have mobility. Strut does nothing when I can remove it the instant you go for a cs, and then I still have an innate flash via my net.
Unless an assassin like Kassadin Rift Walks out of nowhere to silence you. Why do you think Kog and Vayne need to be baby sat or why do people say MF's R is only good in aoe comps ?
If Cait want trade against MF in 1vs1. Cait will lose. MF base stats are probably the highest out of any adc and she does more damage. Hell, during her initial release I believe she actually had the highest base stats in the game.
Is anyone on pbe or looking closely at the new items? I'm wanting to try interesting builds with them. Then new rageblade makes kayle stronger. I can also buy both the ranged and melee tiamat on her (maybe on everyone) but they only proc when you do have the range the item says. And I'm not sure, but I think the ranged tiamat might not proc if you are within melee range even if your e is being used.
I wanna try shaco again. I think maybe the jungle buff might screw him over but maybe the items will make good use. I like the fact I can now get tenacity on everyone and a QQS.
I'm curious about jungle Irelia in the new jungle. Her kit is theoretically a strong one for jungling with sustain and strong gank tools, but she simply never gets the farm she needs and her early clear time is slow. In s3, ambient gold is increased + jungle gives better farm as the game progresses + machete helps her early slow clear time.
This is one of the reasons Cait falls of. Early game abilities do more damage while late game AA is better. MF, Graves, Ashe and Sivir still use their ultimate without a DPS loss (MF and Graves don't suffer it in teamfights). By that stage of the game of the game Trist fulfills the safe adc role much better with higher range, better escapes and has a massive as steroid.
I've seen it and it's legit. Enemy champion is moving and Kog uses his ultimate in the direction that they are going. Kog hits enemy 3-4 times in a row.
If Cait want trade against MF in 1vs1. Cait will lose. MF base stats are probably the highest out of any adc and she does more damage. Hell, during her initial release I believe she actually had the highest base stats in the game.
@ Kog Ult- Why would anyone who sees Kog's ultimate coming down at them, continue to move in that direction? Anyone should be able to move out of the way if they have regular boots.
@ Cait vs MF- MF has a a bit more HP, and 2 less armor, Cait has 100 more range. Aside from that, they are relatively the same statwise. There are so many factors that can come into play when you put up theoretical 1v1s that its pointless to do them. Cait is a HUGE bully in lane, and needs to do so in order to keep with a mid/late game.
@Tristana- She is one of the best late game Hyper Carries, if not THE best. She makes up for this by having a lackluster early game (as she should). So its hard to compare her to Cait since they have extreme opposites.
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and you wind up dead because you're super far forward
Why would I be?
People keep ignoring that I'm saying you only use her ult when it won't be interrupted. ****'s sake, it's not rocket science to make sure that noone can stun/silence you within 3 seconds without flashing. Mind you, it's not even always a horrible thing to have it interrupted.
If you're using your ult on someone who is THEMSELF able to get close enough to you to stop it in time, you're using her ult wrong. It's like saying graves is **** because you aim buckshot in the completely wrong direction.
Quote from Yagami »
Unless an assassin like Kassadin Rift Walks out of nowhere to silence you.
Are we seriously going to analyze the viability of every move with the assumption that kass can come out and attack you while you're doing it? I'm done right now if we are, because that's an absurd way to go about it.
They are though-
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Yes... But it's a pretty ****ty steroid. Increased damage for 1 in 7 shots is pretty lackluster and nearly every champion has a better steroid than her. Ashe is just about the only other one and even then you aren't picking Ashe for the damage.
Caitlyn has the highest AA range in the game at level one, it's one of the most important things an AD carry can have. It lets them harass easily without putting themselves at risk. Having a range advantage on your opponents means you can exploit it to get free damage on them.
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Good Cait players can easily harass you out of lane and CS excellently, all without the possibility of being harassed back.
There are some exceptions, like that of Zed and Galio that're just ****ing ridiculous steroids even though they're passive, and... I guess Riven passive counts as a steroid, in a weird way. Yea, that and her trap interactions are all she really has.
Actually, her ult also makes some good "ganks" if you're smart about doing it. The range is so long that it doesn't waste much time and you can easily miss no or very few creeps when you time it right. People never expect it either so it works quite well when I do it, kind of like a single lane, high damage karth ult that noone expects but takes a little setup.
My most recent ranked game, I was second pick while the other team picked Annie as their first pick. After some discussion, I grabbed Blitzcrank for our team, with the understanding that I would trade it for Galio. A few people on my team were very hesitant about picking him, but I assured them I thought it was a solid choice as a counterpick.
I have a rune page just for Galio that stacks up flat MR for the early game and I used a mastery page - 0/21/9, with lots of tankiness, MR, and mana regen. I dominated the mid lane to the point that Annie said in all chat that this was really an unfair matchup (she doesn't have a good escape or silence like Kass and it's relatively easy to play around her stun) and she started roaming towards bot, and I got the first turret and pushed for the second turret before bot got their turret. I also roamed a bit and helped out in team fights with my ult, and I ended up with a 5-1-6 score, which I think is very respectable (I died to an Olaf gank - lots of physical and true damage).
I wasn't aware that 6 other carries had the longest harass range in the game as far as bot lane is concerned, could snare you in place and keep vision on you with the same skill, and escape while slowing their attacker.
You pick Cait in order to win your lane.
Her Q goes far as hell and her passive is great for harassing in lane. And Ashe doesn't have a trap.
Its only 1 in 7 attacks if you aren't ever shooting from the bush. On average for me it's about 1 in every 3-4 attacks. Power shot plus Q is pretty massive damage for the range she can dish it at.
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Kog with W. Trist outranges her at level 12 if I'm not mistaken.
Ez's Essence Flux. Sivir's Boomerang. Miss Fortune Double-Up. Corki's Phosphorus Bomb. Varus' Piercing Arrow.
No. She was only strong for a brief time just because they nerfed all the other ranged carries hard (MF, Twitch, Ez, Corki). She had a slap on the wrist with 5 less MS removed from her and nobody played her since.
Her ultimate is not reliable simply because it's so easy to disrupt. Also most of the time when you are using her ultimate at an enemy one of your teammates will probably kill the intended target before Cait finishes channeling it. The fact that it can be blocked by tanks is another strike against it.
I have seen very good Kog players use their ultimate in rapid succession hitting the same target no matter where they move. Cait's ultimate is just a single target damage ability. Kog's reveals enemies. Graves is a completely different carry as he is focused on being close to point blank range range to max his damage. Sivir gives free stats for your team. Ashe can still set up her ultimate by kiting. Draven has 2 chances for his ultimate to hit.
If that was true Cait's endgame woudn't be terrible compared to other adc's. Graves late game is better than Caits. He has a huge steroid and is capable at constantly repositioning himself if you have 2.0 AS end game. MF's end game is better because she has a built in healing debuffer which counters a lot of tanky dps and and adc's who have Bloodthirster that also functions as medium sized AS increase. Her ultimate does a lot of damage in team fights. Sivir end game is better because she has a free Banshee's and gives everyone on your team higher AS, higher MS and has an auto attack reset. Ashe's endgame is better she can kite anyone to death and has the strongest initiation ability in the game next to a really good Amummu who can land his Bandage Toss following up with his ultimate.
That only happens to me when I play as Graves yet somehow I still manage to comeback by getting random double kills and by not making stupid mistakes winning the game.
You also pick Draven, Ez, Graves and MF for that too except they scale better than her.
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UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Essence flux does **** damage and I believe has a shorter range. Sivir's boomerang travels more slowly and I believe now lower damage even when it hits twice, although the animation is much quicker. Varus' piercing arrow is true, although you have to prepare and charge it, moving slowly... it's not a very comparable mechanic to the ability to piltover someone as they step on your trap or get ccd in some other fashion. Look at the patch before that. She had piltover peacemaker's base damage lowered and her trap activation range nerfed by 10%, nerfing her lane phase hard and her midgame noticeably as well. I played cait a lot around this time. Get your facts straight. The way she became strong is irrelevant - she WAS strong, although I'd like you too look back at patch notes and see that she was being buffed, sometimes significantly, before this. Eg: that trap count increase was huge, don't know why they have it marked as a neutral change, deceptively large piltover peacemaker damage buff with a sizable mid-late and late game ult buff. The only legitimate point here is the last one. It's only easy to disrupt if you use it poorly - is kennen ult **** too because of knockbacks? **** no, it's amazing. The pure ****ing range on this ability means you should never ever ever be in range to be stunned out of the (now very short, that's another thing that was buffed by the way) cast. If the target dies while you're casting, the CD doesn't activate - meanwhile you've just provided security in case they manage to escape! Even flashing can't save them once your ult is going!
...Unless, your last point, they flash behind or otherwise block it with a tank. That's it's biggest flaw. Well that and the fact that it's generally a dps loss when you can AA instead. Physically impossible unless the enemy is slowed - you can dodge kog's ult with r1 boots, and maybe even without boots I'm not sure. Yes you can aim it well, you can zone with it, you can lead it and have a high probability of hitting, but someone focusing on dodging it can dodge it very easily if they're moving reasonably fast. I know all these things. Although I have to say, if you miss the first part of Draven ult... it's very rare that you can pull off the second. In any case - yes the abilities are all different. In some ways each of them are better than cait's. I'm just saying that they are in ways worse, and there are situations in which you bet your ass I'd rather have cait's, and where hers is more "reliable".
It's "JUST" a single target damage ability? No. It's a single target damage ability with ridiculous range. That can't be stopped except by blocking or ccing cait (which shouldn't be possible). That does quite massive damage and is absurdly easy to land considering its range. Compare to the draven and ashe ults that you can flash, and are particularly easy to avoid if you have sight of draven/ashe, and that have long travel times and do less damage. It's not terrible, you're overstating it. Look at your evidence here - you just say "x's lategame is better because of this qualitative difference, because x has a y that cait doesn't have". Cait has things they don't have either. Just because they have a tool she doesn't have doesn't mean they're better. Again, she is not very strong right now, but her lategame is not terrible provided you do well in the earlier stages of the game, where she shines. Uh, under different situations. You pick MF against my cait any day of the week buddy and you'll see how that lane matchup goes. Here's a hint: superior range completely and utterly ****s over people who don't have mobility. Strut does nothing when I can remove it the instant you go for a cs, and then I still have an innate flash via my net.
And then their support jumps out of the bush and stuns you, and you wind up dead because you're super far forward, or MF E's from nearly double your AA range to force you back, or Double-Up a creep near you from outside your AA range.
All Cait really has going for her is a slightly better early game due to her range, and her ult. Once your lane opponent hits 6, you aren't going to be doing much to them anymore.
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And she will beat them all in lane. Draven's range is too low, MF will lose her MS as soon as she comes in range to cs, and Ez will have to get in front of the creeps to harass her. All of these characters scale better, but they don't have the raw power that Caitlyn has in a lane and at such a range. If she gets an advantage, she can beat them mid game.
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Still does more damage and is faster than Peacemaker.
He can charge it from afar where he is safe from harass. Does HP damage in addition to physical damage. He can also set it up with his slow.
That's still very ignificant because MF had every single one her abilities nerfed including her passive in rapid sucession. Twitch was gutted getting getting nerfed 7 of the next 8 patches in a row becoming a troll pick. Ez had his heal removed, his base stats lowered, lowered damage on his Q by over 15% and had it's range lowered. Corki's R had it's damage lowered by 50% while the mana cost was increased on it. His Q had it's base damage lowered and no longer granted stealth vision.
So yeah. Riot overnerfed other ADC's so a new FOTM emerged because she kept on getting buffs due to her awful release. Even before the MS nerfing patch on her people still played her heavily just because the others were in bad shape.
No because Kennen has Zhonyas, can stun the person with the knockback without using his ultimate and has Lighting Rush. His ultimate is a game changer and he can protect himself. Completely different comparison...
The used to matter but almost everyone has a gapcloser with a silence, stun or knockup. The cast time on it is still bad. For a similar comparison I notice MF's R being much better after the wind up time was lowered.
Unless you target someone who can dodge it (Fizz, Vlad or Elise. Maybe Jax ???)
This is one of the reasons Cait falls of. Early game abilities do more damage while late game AA is better. MF, Graves, Ashe and Sivir still use their ultimate without a DPS loss (MF and Graves don't suffer it in teamfights). By that stage of the game of the game Trist fulfills the safe adc role much better with higher range, better escapes and has a massive as steroid.
I've seen it and it's legit. Enemy champion is moving and Kog uses his ultimate in the direction that they are going. Kog hits enemy 3-4 times in a row.
Unless an assassin like Kassadin Rift Walks out of nowhere to silence you. Why do you think Kog and Vayne need to be baby sat or why do people say MF's R is only good in aoe comps ?
If Cait want trade against MF in 1vs1. Cait will lose. MF base stats are probably the highest out of any adc and she does more damage. Hell, during her initial release I believe she actually had the highest base stats in the game.
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UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
I wanna try shaco again. I think maybe the jungle buff might screw him over but maybe the items will make good use. I like the fact I can now get tenacity on everyone and a QQS.
@ Kog Ult- Why would anyone who sees Kog's ultimate coming down at them, continue to move in that direction? Anyone should be able to move out of the way if they have regular boots.
@ Cait vs MF- MF has a a bit more HP, and 2 less armor, Cait has 100 more range. Aside from that, they are relatively the same statwise. There are so many factors that can come into play when you put up theoretical 1v1s that its pointless to do them. Cait is a HUGE bully in lane, and needs to do so in order to keep with a mid/late game.
@Tristana- She is one of the best late game Hyper Carries, if not THE best. She makes up for this by having a lackluster early game (as she should). So its hard to compare her to Cait since they have extreme opposites.
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People keep ignoring that I'm saying you only use her ult when it won't be interrupted. ****'s sake, it's not rocket science to make sure that noone can stun/silence you within 3 seconds without flashing. Mind you, it's not even always a horrible thing to have it interrupted.
If you're using your ult on someone who is THEMSELF able to get close enough to you to stop it in time, you're using her ult wrong. It's like saying graves is **** because you aim buckshot in the completely wrong direction. Are we seriously going to analyze the viability of every move with the assumption that kass can come out and attack you while you're doing it? I'm done right now if we are, because that's an absurd way to go about it.