Me along with three of my close Christian friends have just recently gotten into MTG. One is actually a few months away from being a licensed pastor. Is this unusual? A lot of other Christians think that this is some sort of a devil game or something. All of my other Christian friends are in love with J.R. Tolkien and Lord of the Rings for its religious and moral undertones. It has magic in it. Any thoughts people?
Not all Christians are evangelicals. The people you speak of are the same kind that would espouse the Satanism of Harry Potter. Best to pay them no mind
The sort of Christians who hate on the game are the same sort who forbid their kids from trick-or-treating on Halloween, who are almost to a one also young-Earth creationists. They do not excel in Christian fidelity; rather, they are literalists who suffer from stunted imaginations (and would suffer likewise regardless of what creed they followed). They read in 1 Thessalonians 5:22, "Abstain from all appearance of evil," which means, "Don't live in such a way that someone could assume you're morally compromised." But they interpret it as, "Stay away from anything that's got pictures of demons, vampires or witches in it." So they steer clear of Magic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
Me along with three of my close Christian friends have just recently gotten into MTG. One is actually a few months away from being a licensed pastor. Is this unusual? A lot of other Christians think that this is some sort of a devil game or something. All of my other Christian friends are in love with J.R. Tolkien and Lord of the Rings for its religious and moral undertones. It has magic in it. Any thoughts people?
It should be noted that Tolkien was himself a Christian.
Me along with three of my close Christian friends have just recently gotten into MTG. One is actually a few months away from being a licensed pastor. Is this unusual? A lot of other Christians think that this is some sort of a devil game or something. All of my other Christian friends are in love with J.R. Tolkien and Lord of the Rings for its religious and moral undertones. It has magic in it. Any thoughts people?
It should be noted that Tolkien was himself a Christian.
As is, I imagine, a large number of Wizards of the Coast employees.
Just being "Christian" does not automatically mean you do not or should not find interest or involve yourself in something with fiction and imagery along the lines of what we have in Magic or any other fantasy setting out there. People who believe that such things are "evil", "demonic" and such are on the extremist edge of how they interpret their faith (and possible with the desire to force their thoughts unto others).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Considering that the game is mostly mathematics and linguistics based rather than focusing on the actual aspect of "black magic," the game falls perfectly within the realm of acceptability. Equally considering many priests at one point studied things such as mythology and other religions without having to sacrifice their own authority as Christians and actually enjoy learning about something "different" than it is reasonable to conclude that there is no spiritual decay with playing a game or video game that uses, well, Magic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
My token christian friend used to dislike Magic (and other "occult" stuff like Pokemon (mainly due to his family, I think)) but now he works at a game shop with the side missions of teaching kids how to read and use maths, he's okay with the game. Certainly, the last time I rolled up he was fine with using Magic as a teaching tool.
As much as I generally disagree with the concept of religion, I figure it depends on the person and their church/upbringing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
I thought about this after a friend mentioned he was disapproving of it. After considerable thought I decided C.S. Lewis was a spiffy fellow and if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.
Besides, the only similarity to most depictions of magic in fantasy and as it's used in the Bible is the word itself.
I'm a Christian and I play. It's a card game not some sort of demonic cult. As long as you can still separate fantasy from reality, I see no problem with it.
I thought about this after a friend mentioned he was disapproving of it. After considerable thought I decided C.S. Lewis was a spiffy fellow and if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.
Besides, the only similarity to most depictions of magic in fantasy and as it's used in the Bible is the word itself.
As a Christian, that's my reaction as well. When other christians I know say they don't like MTG or Harry Potter because "magic", I ask them what they think of CS Lewis or JRR Tolkien. Unless they're super-fundamentalist, this is usually enough to get them to think about their position, which is really all you can ask.
I'm a Christian, and I play. Never thought anything of it. I've never run into anyone who has given me flak for it, so I assume that I either live in a more tolerant area, or that the complainers are just fringe-folk
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Proving god exists isn't hard. Proving god is God is the tricky part" - Roommate
I do, and I'm a Southern Baptist. It's never been an issue for me. Most people really can tell the difference between playing a card game and actually worshiping demons (or whatever). Most of the people opposed to things like MTG, Pokemon, or the like really have no idea what they're opposed to. People are people, after all, and tend not to question their beliefs after they acquire them. Which means that if Glenn Beck (or whoever is big now) gets on the radio and talks about how MTG is evil, then a lot of people are going to parrot that without questioning it.
Though, I would never try to convince someone to play along if they truly believed it was wrong (after an attempt to change their mind, of course). If you truly believe something is wrong, then you shouldn't be doing it, regardless of your beliefs.
I taught high school biology along time ago at a jesuit school. I tried to start a dungeons and dragons club but was immediately denied due to the fanatical religious faculty. It was a good learning experience. Christians associate D&D and MTG with the occult. It is what it is. Not all religions people are evil. evangical christians are born from the same fabric as muslim terrorist. They are the same.
If I remember correctly, when I started playing Magic, I still went to church from time to time. Never saw anything wrong with it. I also didn't tell anyone, but I don't think the pastor there would have seen it as evil. He was a pretty down to earth guy, and wasn't one of those "everything that isn't the Bible is evil" types that I feel like Christians occasionally get unfairly stereotyped as being.
I'm an evangelical and I play magic as well. I don't have a problem with the game itself even though I disagree with certain parts of game design. For example, I find it annoying that angels are a female slanted tribe in the game, but they are always depicted as male characters in the Bible. I can't think of a single angel in MTG that does not have art depicting it as a female character. Why is that? I have my own suspensions, and I think it has to do with how western culture in general embraces masculinity and femininity. I think our culture has big issues with accepting a masculine character that is righteous or holy, and I think that this comes through in game design in a very big way.
One of the things that I think turns off a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists are passages in the Bible that suggest that sorcery and witchcraft are evil. I think that there is a lot of ignorance with respect to what these things are referring to. When you historically look at what witchcraft was in the time of Moses it referred to people who worshiped Baal and Ashtaroth. Part of that religion required child sacrifice, which is why witches were not allowed to live. People who have anachronistic interpretations of the Bible will infuse ideas from 21st century fantasy into words like "sorcery" or "witchcraft" rather than understanding them in their biblical and historical context. I think that this is one of the biggest issues when it comes to magic gaining acceptance within more conservative circles of the Christian community. I also don't think it helps that people automatically associate MTG with Dungeons and Dragons because they are both designed by Wizards.
It seems to me there is a form of Christianity for everyone. Really it doesn't matter much what your opinions are there will always be a form of Christianity that your opinions don't conflict with. Christianity seems utterly whimsical.
I think it's more the case that the Bible is very broad in what it says, and so people interpret it however they want for many things.
I'm a Mormon (so pretty strict in regards to spiritual discipline), and I play. Now granted, I could be considered an outlier as I am a convert, but our pastor-equivalent is a geek, and I suspect that were Magic not a time and money sink, he'd play too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
For example, I find it annoying that angels are a female slanted tribe in the game, but they are always depicted as male characters in the Bible. I can't think of a single angel in MTG that does not have art depicting it as a female character. Why is that? I have my own suspensions, and I think it has to do with how western culture in general embraces masculinity and femininity. I think our culture has big issues with accepting a masculine character that is righteous or holy, and I think that this comes through in game design in a very big way.
I also don't think it helps that people automatically associate MTG with Dungeons and Dragons because they are both designed by Wizards.
Objectively, you'd think that D&D would be a lot more acceptable to evangelicals, because the players have complete control over the nature of the fantasy world they're playing in.
I consider myself a Christian and I play MTG even though my family never raised me to go to church on Sundays when I was a young boy although I do my best to stay in touch with the Word of God however what's holding me back from repenting is the fear of losing all the memories of my past life If I ever become a born again Christian, sure not all memories are perfect but the way I see it memories are the greatest treasure in the world despite being associated at times with the work of the devil. I feel like I'm trying to fulfill God's will and my own will simultaneously when I can't have it both ways but it just goes to show that nothing in life comes without sacrifice. If you had no choice but to give up the knowledge you acquired in your lifetime in exchange for eternal salvation would it be worth it? What If there was another way If God didn't consider all outside knowledge separate from the Holy Bible as sin?
The current Blood Moon Tetrad that occurs on Jewish Feast Days had me rethink what I should be doing in life before the Second Coming of Christ that's drawing near. I see so much pain and suffering in the world today that I feel helpless to do anything about it even though God has commanded me to help and I wish I could since He's done so much for me, my family, and friends in my lifetime. Sure signing online petitions helps but it's not enough, I don't even know which charities to trust since a lot of them scam people for money in order to take advantage of one's gullibility. My grandmother on my mother's side of the family has been really ill lately even though she's in her early 70's while my grandfather is mad at God for not healing her fast enough when I think it's mainly because he lost faith in God himself. I still have faith that my grandmother will get better even though God hasn't answered my prayers on it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
The sort of Christians who hate on the game are the same sort who forbid their kids from trick-or-treating on Halloween, who are almost to a one also young-Earth creationists. They do not excel in Christian fidelity; rather, they are literalists who suffer from stunted imaginations (and would suffer likewise regardless of what creed they followed). They read in 1 Thessalonians 5:22, "Abstain from all appearance of evil," which means, "Don't live in such a way that someone could assume you're morally compromised." But they interpret it as, "Stay away from anything that's got pictures of demons, vampires or witches in it." So they steer clear of Magic.
As is, I imagine, a large number of Wizards of the Coast employees.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
but I don't
Spam/troll warning. - Blinking Spirit
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
As much as I generally disagree with the concept of religion, I figure it depends on the person and their church/upbringing.
Art is life itself.
Besides, the only similarity to most depictions of magic in fantasy and as it's used in the Bible is the word itself.
As a Christian, that's my reaction as well. When other christians I know say they don't like MTG or Harry Potter because "magic", I ask them what they think of CS Lewis or JRR Tolkien. Unless they're super-fundamentalist, this is usually enough to get them to think about their position, which is really all you can ask.
Though, I would never try to convince someone to play along if they truly believed it was wrong (after an attempt to change their mind, of course). If you truly believe something is wrong, then you shouldn't be doing it, regardless of your beliefs.
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
RWU Numot, the Devastator
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
WB Athreos, God of Passage
One of the things that I think turns off a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists are passages in the Bible that suggest that sorcery and witchcraft are evil. I think that there is a lot of ignorance with respect to what these things are referring to. When you historically look at what witchcraft was in the time of Moses it referred to people who worshiped Baal and Ashtaroth. Part of that religion required child sacrifice, which is why witches were not allowed to live. People who have anachronistic interpretations of the Bible will infuse ideas from 21st century fantasy into words like "sorcery" or "witchcraft" rather than understanding them in their biblical and historical context. I think that this is one of the biggest issues when it comes to magic gaining acceptance within more conservative circles of the Christian community. I also don't think it helps that people automatically associate MTG with Dungeons and Dragons because they are both designed by Wizards.
I think it's more the case that the Bible is very broad in what it says, and so people interpret it however they want for many things.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
But you're not bothered by the fact that the angels in Magic aren't covered in hundreds of eyes and constantly on fire?
You're really barking up the wrong tree here. Holy Strength, Rally the Righteous, Righteous Aura, Righteous Authority, Righteous Avengers, Righteous Indignation. Cho-Manno, Revolutionary, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Eladamri, Lord of Leaves, Gerrard Capashen, Mageta the Lion, Mangara of Corondor, Sidar Jabari. Hector, Jesus, King Arthur, Roland, George Washington, Ivanhoe, Superman, Captain America, Gandalf, Atticus Finch, Luke Skywalker, Captain Picard, President Bartlet, Eddard Stark. There is a reason why all angels (except the alternate universe ones) are female, but masculinity issues definitely aren't it.
Objectively, you'd think that D&D would be a lot more acceptable to evangelicals, because the players have complete control over the nature of the fantasy world they're playing in.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Wizards needs to do this.
Tricolour Burn
aReGee Tron
UWR Control
Legacy
Old school Goblins
The current Blood Moon Tetrad that occurs on Jewish Feast Days had me rethink what I should be doing in life before the Second Coming of Christ that's drawing near. I see so much pain and suffering in the world today that I feel helpless to do anything about it even though God has commanded me to help and I wish I could since He's done so much for me, my family, and friends in my lifetime. Sure signing online petitions helps but it's not enough, I don't even know which charities to trust since a lot of them scam people for money in order to take advantage of one's gullibility. My grandmother on my mother's side of the family has been really ill lately even though she's in her early 70's while my grandfather is mad at God for not healing her fast enough when I think it's mainly because he lost faith in God himself. I still have faith that my grandmother will get better even though God hasn't answered my prayers on it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta