It's always "God tells me this" or "I heard a voice from heaven blah blah blah". I've noticed this in Christians and they always wonder in awe how they could have a divine revelation. But in a non-religious context, hearing voices is a bad thing. People think they're crazy. And some people, like me, think that these religious people who hear things are crazy. How is it that most people can't hear God, but very few can? If God was really audible, wouldn't they make themselves known to anyone that asked it?
It's always "God tells me this" or "I heard a voice from heaven blah blah blah". I've noticed this in Christians and they always wonder in awe how they could have a divine revelation. But in a non-religious context, hearing voices is a bad thing. People think they're crazy. And some people, like me, think that these religious people who hear things are crazy. How is it that most people can't hear God, but very few can? If God was really audible, wouldn't they make themselves known to anyone that asked it?
Well, if they really are hearing a message from someone/thing than wouldn't that be pretty amazing? They probably think it's pretty crazy that you don't thank God for all of the wonderful things in your life.
In regards to your last question, if there is a God we can't say "wouldn't he/she do this?" What makes you think you could comprehend something that many magnitudes higher than your own intelligence?
Maybe it is just me, but I feel like any situation that starts with "I hear voices" will often end with "I did it because the voices told me to" and jail time.
I've always wondered...Talking about sane people here only:
How can you tell if you are talking to yourself or is it God? If you asked "WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?" It's very easy to just make up answers to the question. Is that your mind? Or God?
You can rest assured if God spoke to Christians the Christians first response would be skepticism as well.
Depends on the person, depends on the message. You can't make blanket statements about a diverse group of people like that. well you can, it just doesn't make sense.
In my experience its because religious people put quite a lot of faith in the idea of an "inner light." Many seem to take for granted this idea that God has placed inside all people "Goodness," or a divine spark, and through inner contemplation the word and wants of God can be made known to everyone.
This is why many religious people seem to feel justified in the idea that people will go to hell if they don't believe in their religion. They feel that with enough inner enlightenment everyone will come to the "correct" conclusion, and anyone denying THEIR conclusion(which they think is the right one--obviously--or they'd not believe it) must not have prayed hard enough or something. Dissonances must be denying what their inner light is telling them.
This can--for example--lead them to conclusion that God must hate gay sex. It's "icky" to them, and they assume that feeling of unease is their inner light telling them its sinful for everyone.
But, of course, they don't always mean they are literally hearing voices when God "tells" them something. They are just saying that God is trying to let them know about something through their inner light, or feelings.
In my experience its because religious people put quite a lot of faith in the idea of an "inner light." Many seem to take for granted this idea that God has placed inside all people "Goodness," or a divine spark, and through inner contemplation the word and wants of God can be made known to everyone.
This is why many religious people seem to feel justified in the idea that people will go to hell if they don't believe in their religion. They feel that with enough inner enlightenment everyone will come to the "correct" conclusion, and anyone denying THEIR conclusion(which they think is the right one--obviously--or they'd not believe it) must not have prayed hard enough or something. Dissonances must be denying what their inner light is telling them.
This can--for example--lead them to conclusion that God must hate gay sex. It's "icky" to them, and they assume that feeling of unease is their inner light telling them its sinful for everyone.
But, of course, they don't always mean they are literally hearing voices when God "tells" them something. They are just saying that God is trying to let them know about something through their inner light, or feelings.
I challenge anyone who is a Christian and believes the Bible is "the truth", to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Judaism
and then try to tell me what "the truth" really is.
Also, how do people reconcile this "inner light" with also believing that humans are inherently evil and can't help but sin?
Also, how do people reconcile this "inner light" with also believing that humans are inherently evil and can't help but sin?
By how they feel.
It really depends on the person. But, its essentially "listen to your conscience" most of the time. Sin would make you feel good in the moment, but icky after; or is icky all the time.
I would like to state I--personally--don't put any stock in "inner light," but I still don't like doing stuff that makes me feel icky. So, I can kinda see where they're coming from there.
Good question. There's clearly a double standard as it pertains to hearing voices. IMO, regardless as to whether or not you're religious and regardless as to whether these "voices" are of the positive or negative variety, hearing voices is a sign of mental illness and always needs to be treated as such.
I always find it interesting that so many non-believers have such easily answered or childish questions about faith.
The most telling is when they say things like "God wouldn't do this...would he?" or "How could this be a real thing?" Who do you think you are anyway? It's like fish in a bowl trying to comprehend Algebra.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
If you feel humans can never understand the divine, then perhaps the religious subforum isn't the correct one for you.
You're post would be kinda like me going to Custom Card Creation and saying "None of these cards will ever be real Magic cards. MaRo has publicly started he can't use them for legal reasons. There is no point to any of this."
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
If you feel humans can never understand the divine, then perhaps the religious subforum isn't the correct one for you.
You're post would be kinda like me going to Custom Card Creation and saying "None of these cards will ever be real Magic cards. MaRo has publicly started he can't use them for legal reasons. There is no point to any of this."
More importantly, I believe this kind of rationalization to be extremely dangerous. Let's say you hypothetically have a family member or friend who hears voices on a daily basis and solely attributes said voices to a divine being. Wouldn't it be prudent to urge that friend to seek help? Taking the "Well, it might actually be god so I shouldn't intervene." approach is wholly irresponsible. Modern medicine and our "human standards" have proven that hearing voices is a possible symptom of serious mental illness.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
If you feel humans can never understand the divine, then perhaps the religious subforum isn't the correct one for you.
You're post would be kinda like me going to Custom Card Creation and saying "None of these cards will ever be real Magic cards. MaRo has publicly started he can't use them for legal reasons. There is no point to any of this."
It's not like that at all. I'm pointing out that it's almost certainly foolish to assume you could know the mind of God based on your own capacity for intellect. That's definitely a valid point to consider, because if there is a god, than I'm almost certainly right.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
If you feel humans can never understand the divine, then perhaps the religious subforum isn't the correct one for you.
You're post would be kinda like me going to Custom Card Creation and saying "None of these cards will ever be real Magic cards. MaRo has publicly started he can't use them for legal reasons. There is no point to any of this."
It's not like that at all. I'm pointing out that it's almost certainly foolish to assume you could know the mind of God based on your own capacity for intellect. That's definitely a valid point to consider, because if there is a god, than I'm almost certainly right.
Right. So, the logical conclusion is that all of the world's religion is pointless, since the wants of God are unknowable. God's thoughts on homosexuality--for example--can't ever be understood (good or bad) by anyone.
Any conversation about a senseless topic is likewise senseless. You're saying topics on this subforum are pointless, which would be like me going into Custom Card Creation and saying...
@ OP: I doubt most sincere Christians would say they routinely witness burning bush or hear voices. If someone claims this, you shouldn't believe it. Even if they are legitimate, there is no reason to put faith in your fellow man. At the most, such claims are better used to cause you to reflect inwardly and seek God yourself, not waste time determining someone else's veracity.
The "Unconscious" is not that old of an idea. In many, many cultures when people "hear things" its from spirits, gods, demons, etc., some external force, because where the heck else would it be from. It doesn't mix easily with modern psychology's view on what is awfully similar if not identical phenomena. Still in older times Christians would be quicker to caution about the Devil's handiwork in voices or visions, but that guy has fallen out of vogue lately in many places.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
If you feel humans can never understand the divine, then perhaps the religious subforum isn't the correct one for you.
You're post would be kinda like me going to Custom Card Creation and saying "None of these cards will ever be real Magic cards. MaRo has publicly started he can't use them for legal reasons. There is no point to any of this."
It's not like that at all. I'm pointing out that it's almost certainly foolish to assume you could know the mind of God based on your own capacity for intellect. That's definitely a valid point to consider, because if there is a god, than I'm almost certainly right.
Right. So, the logical conclusion is that all of the world's religion is pointless, since the wants of God are unknowable. God's thoughts on homosexuality--for example--can't ever be understood (good or bad) by anyone.
Any conversation about a senseless topic is likewise senseless. You're saying topics on this subforum are pointless, which would be like me going into Custom Card Creation and saying...
I could introduce you to some sites explaining deductive logic as you're becoming confused with how it works.
In any case, many religious people believe their texts have sacred information that give access to a small part of the mind of God. I'm referring specifically to atheists, on their own, trying to figure out what God might think, based on their own skewed vantage point.
I could introduce you to some sites explaining deductive logic as you're becoming confused with how it works.
I'm not the one to say it was impossible to make intelligible statements about something, and then proceeded to claim I was "almost certainly right" about that same thing.[1]
In any case, many religious people believe their texts have sacred information that give access to a small part of the mind of God.
Which you state:
"It's like fish in a bowl trying to comprehend Algebra."[2]
If you didn't mean for that to be a metaphor for "impossible" or "a waste of time" you're going to need to be more clear on what you do mean.
I'm referring specifically to atheists, on their own, trying to figure out what God might think, based on their own skewed vantage point.
Why are atheists more like a "fish in a bowl" than theists? I thought your claim was all humans were like that fish. Why are you now claiming theists get special insight to said Algebra?
@OP: I think a lot of believers don't really claim to audibly hear a voice (though some do claim this, I think that's a minority though). "Hearing God" is more of an inner feeling one gets that is attributed to God. At least that was my experience with hearing God.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
Well, there's a problem for a religious person with this approach, isn't there? If God is truly beyond human comprehension, then here's what can be meaningfully said about Him:
This applies to Christians, Hindus, Atheists, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Jews, Deists, and everyone else. Nobody can know anything about God if He is truly incomprehensible. No one can know that He is good, that He is intelligent, that He has a heaven prepared for people, that Jesus is/isn't His Son, that Muhammed is/isn't His final prophet, no one can say they know what He desires for them to do, and so on...
I think pretty much every religious person claims to comprehend some things about God, His nature, and/or His desires. If this is the case, then the believer must concede that God is comprehensible.
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Well, if they really are hearing a message from someone/thing than wouldn't that be pretty amazing? They probably think it's pretty crazy that you don't thank God for all of the wonderful things in your life.
In regards to your last question, if there is a God we can't say "wouldn't he/she do this?" What makes you think you could comprehend something that many magnitudes higher than your own intelligence?
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
How can you tell if you are talking to yourself or is it God? If you asked "WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?" It's very easy to just make up answers to the question. Is that your mind? Or God?
Depends on the person, depends on the message. You can't make blanket statements about a diverse group of people like that. well you can, it just doesn't make sense.
This is why many religious people seem to feel justified in the idea that people will go to hell if they don't believe in their religion. They feel that with enough inner enlightenment everyone will come to the "correct" conclusion, and anyone denying THEIR conclusion(which they think is the right one--obviously--or they'd not believe it) must not have prayed hard enough or something. Dissonances must be denying what their inner light is telling them.
This can--for example--lead them to conclusion that God must hate gay sex. It's "icky" to them, and they assume that feeling of unease is their inner light telling them its sinful for everyone.
But, of course, they don't always mean they are literally hearing voices when God "tells" them something. They are just saying that God is trying to let them know about something through their inner light, or feelings.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
I challenge anyone who is a Christian and believes the Bible is "the truth", to read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Judaism
and then try to tell me what "the truth" really is.
Also, how do people reconcile this "inner light" with also believing that humans are inherently evil and can't help but sin?
By how they feel.
It really depends on the person. But, its essentially "listen to your conscience" most of the time. Sin would make you feel good in the moment, but icky after; or is icky all the time.
I would like to state I--personally--don't put any stock in "inner light," but I still don't like doing stuff that makes me feel icky. So, I can kinda see where they're coming from there.
The most telling is when they say things like "God wouldn't do this...would he?" or "How could this be a real thing?" Who do you think you are anyway? It's like fish in a bowl trying to comprehend Algebra.
If there is a God, (who knows if there is) you would have no idea what it would or wouldn't do, or how it's laws could be formulated or justified, definitely wouldn't be able to hold it against human standards.
You're post would be kinda like me going to Custom Card Creation and saying "None of these cards will ever be real Magic cards. MaRo has publicly started he can't use them for legal reasons. There is no point to any of this."
More importantly, I believe this kind of rationalization to be extremely dangerous. Let's say you hypothetically have a family member or friend who hears voices on a daily basis and solely attributes said voices to a divine being. Wouldn't it be prudent to urge that friend to seek help? Taking the "Well, it might actually be god so I shouldn't intervene." approach is wholly irresponsible. Modern medicine and our "human standards" have proven that hearing voices is a possible symptom of serious mental illness.
It's not like that at all. I'm pointing out that it's almost certainly foolish to assume you could know the mind of God based on your own capacity for intellect. That's definitely a valid point to consider, because if there is a god, than I'm almost certainly right.
Right. So, the logical conclusion is that all of the world's religion is pointless, since the wants of God are unknowable. God's thoughts on homosexuality--for example--can't ever be understood (good or bad) by anyone.
Any conversation about a senseless topic is likewise senseless. You're saying topics on this subforum are pointless, which would be like me going into Custom Card Creation and saying...
Knowing what you ought to do, and actually doing it, are not the same thing (ie I know I should exercise more but I don't).
I could introduce you to some sites explaining deductive logic as you're becoming confused with how it works.
In any case, many religious people believe their texts have sacred information that give access to a small part of the mind of God. I'm referring specifically to atheists, on their own, trying to figure out what God might think, based on their own skewed vantage point.
Which you state:
"It's like fish in a bowl trying to comprehend Algebra."[2]
If you didn't mean for that to be a metaphor for "impossible" or "a waste of time" you're going to need to be more clear on what you do mean.
Why are atheists more like a "fish in a bowl" than theists? I thought your claim was all humans were like that fish. Why are you now claiming theists get special insight to said Algebra?
Well, there's a problem for a religious person with this approach, isn't there? If God is truly beyond human comprehension, then here's what can be meaningfully said about Him:
I think pretty much every religious person claims to comprehend some things about God, His nature, and/or His desires. If this is the case, then the believer must concede that God is comprehensible.