Hang around 4chan. You'll pick up a decent enough collection eventually.
The problem with 4chan is all the stuff I can't unsee.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
You have to sift through the brain pain to get to the physical relief that 4chan can offer. Just have a diligent anti virus, large disk space unused and a Sweet internet connection and you to could be the envy of your friends due to massive un-yealding pron collection that caters to any and all whim's.
I think porn is great and more people should have access to it. I think it can help open people up to new experience and things that will help them grow and be more confident. It is awesome and I think Teia is soo right about the bonding thing. It works wonder's sometimes for the Ms. and I when we get into a rut.
Need I point out that you're both overgeneralizing from anecdotes?
Of course. There are no doubt millions of exceptions to everything I have said. However, I strongly believe that these particular beliefs are widely held by a considerable number of women, and that they strongly influence the societal view of pornography that we are currently discussing.
Quote from Teia Rabishu »
Hey now, I've actually had guys be amazed at just how much better my porn collection was than theirs. Watching with a boyfriend is a bonding experience if anything.
See, I don't believe in owning a "porn collection" in this day and age. When I'm accessing porn, I do it purely through streaming video sites, and wipe the history afterwards. I don't like the idea of having videos on my hard drive that might one day be found by a girlfriend/wife/mom.
I also probably wouldn't watch porn with a girlfriend. I've never thought to ask, which you would probably say is indicative of my own sexual hang-ups, but I prefer to think of it as me trying not to be a jerk.
I dunno about you kids on this forum, but I keep a truly heroic amount of my favourite stuff just lying around on my hard drive. Right in the C:\Users\Teia's Real Name\ directory, even. Literally no attempt to hide it. Woe betide anyone dumb enough to poke around. But whatever, not like I'm ashamed of it. (There's a reason I think Murfs' sister from Khaos Komix is totally awesome, if anyone else has read that.)
And I'm not sure declaring it solely to be you time is a good idea. I mean, sure, any given girlfriend you'd get isn't likely to be like me, but even so, finding the right porn, watching it with her, and enjoying the results isn't a bad thing. Unless you're into some truly bizarre stuff, which can actually make it easier to find a partner given shared fetishes are an easy/lazy way to hook up with someone. I'm basically just saying that enjoying porn with your partner is a win-win scenario.
Lol, this thread has become a discussion about if and where you put you're porn on your computer? Well, I might as well contribute. I do the same as Cherry, mostly because when i lived with my parents and my little brother, I couldn't take the risk.
Skullclamp cannot really be considered a best for it was banned upon release. I think the best card/most broken card on that list has to be Bloodbraid Elf. That card was too busted.
And I'm not sure declaring it solely to be you time is a good idea. I mean, sure, any given girlfriend you'd get isn't likely to be like me, but even so, finding the right porn, watching it with her, and enjoying the results isn't a bad thing. Unless you're into some truly bizarre stuff, which can actually make it easier to find a partner given shared fetishes are an easy/lazy way to hook up with someone. I'm basically just saying that enjoying porn with your partner is a win-win scenario.
No, I'm pretty conservative in my pornographic tastes. The standard boy-meets-girl, boy **** in her ****** ******* and ****** all over ***** and then ******** girl type of stuff.
For me, the issue is that I've internalized the "Porn is cheating!!!!!" argument, and as such I've come to feel like watching porn while in a relationship is a kind of cheating. Bringing a girlfriend into that would be like if she walked in on me having an actual affair with another woman, and then saying, "No, it's ok because you can join in!"
And frankly, I don't have the cojones to pull off something like that.
Quote from PeterGriffin »
Lol, this thread has become a discussion about if and where you put you're porn on your computer? Well, I might as well contribute. I do the same as Cherry, mostly because when i lived with my parents and my little brother, I couldn't take the risk.
It is all still part of the same discussion, really. Would we hide our porn if we didn't feel like the world would judge us if they saw we had it?
Boring in your pornographic tastes is more like it.
But seriously speaking, next relationship you get into, try simply asking her what kind of porn she likes. See if you can find some common ground. If you can, suggest watching it together. Because realistically speaking, sex is usually pretty awkward for people until they get used to it, so any foray into a porn-positive relationship would likely be similar. And if done like this it'd be less "cheating on her with porn" and more "having a threesome with her and porn." I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that idea's somewhat more palatable for you (it's not "cheating" if everyone involved gives it the okay).
Times like this do however make me feel like I'm the weird one just because I've got like no reservations on this subject.
Edit:
Would we hide our porn if we didn't feel like the world would judge us if they saw we had it?
I once tried hiding it. I've since gotten to the mental point where I'm really not so concerned about what people might think of me because, what, they'll find out I swing both ways or something? (I don't separate the porn centred around guys from the porn centred around girls) Hardly something to be ashamed of, since I'm not afraid of what they'd think of my fetishes. The "yeah, so?" response goes a really long way on this one.
And I'm not ashamed to admit, or I should say, I am willing to state the fact that I am an avid watcher of all things pornographic.
Shame, "badness", and pornography are not consequentially linked.
Many religious folk believe pornography to be sinful or wrong.
For the sake of credulity and precision, whom?
Mostly because it entails one of the seven deadly sins known as Lust. Which involves themes such as adultery and indulgence.
"Lust", or "luxuria", is a cardinal sin. Your scope was religion but your understanding is solely that of Western religions, specifically the Christian church (or, at least, a Christian concept), specifically the Roman Catholic subchurch/denomination; neither Eastern/Greek (e.g., Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox) churches do not have the concept of "seven cardinal, or deadly, sins", nor do Reformed churches of the Western/Latin rite. That is not to imply that "lust" or "laws" apropos sexual behaviour and/or immorality do not exist, however.
There is no argument being made here but I thought you might know that you should be more open-minded, inclusionary, and knowledgeable.
Is there some kind of substantial proof that watching pornography is disadvantageous to our mental state?
Inadequate. That is the word associated with pornography and/or its research.
Let's pretend that the viewing of pornography is NOT being tied to adultery or losing intimacy with a significant other where it's obvious that it's harmful to everyone involved.
Sure.
Do non-religious people have morals that entail going against pornographic material?
No; non-religious people don't have morals, and you aren't, as though, implying that the non-religious haven't morals, perhaps as a consequence of the absence of religion.
I know that was rather fallacious and replete with faulty logic but the question was ill-phrased and dispensed.
Is it considered taboo in more American or European cultures than ones based on religion? Is there proof that pornography has significant benefits?
There are arguments for and against pornography and elements thereof. It's a two-sided knife; "some" contend that pornography is the Devil's work and ungodly, that it is degrading and the like to performers and their sex, that it is "immoral", that it is illegal, that it "causes" or is highly correlated with sex crimes, that it is empowering, that its prohibition or banning is suppression of free speech and that beloved First Amendment of the United States Constitution, etc.
I have my own opinion on this subject, but I feel like I would cheapen the debate if I just came out and said my feelings on the subject and made it look like I was grand standing or being hypocritical. So feel free to post your thoughts below.
Your feelings and expression should be as valid as any others, and it would not cheapen the debate if you just came out.
I can try to cover the argument from religion or faith.
Accepting the premise that books are the sole word of God/G-d (and not reading into it, interpreting it, adapting and applying it, etc. (i.e., exegesis)), the Christian Bible speaks nothing of pornography; it does, however, warn against lustful looking and the resultant sin within.[1] Judaism, specifically Halakha/Jewish law, interdicts the doing of a great many things and, perhaps pornography was not as prevalent as it may be in these modern times, singularly counsels that one should eschew that which is not humble and modest and that which is sexually arousing.
And not from religion or faith but from gender roles and feminism.
I believe pornography can be empowering but it can do social harm in developing or reinforcing gender roles and certain undesirable behaviours. There is no book of human and, if there were, it would not be one single edition; there is, however, ethics/philosophy and psychology. It may be worth dispelling post hoc ergo propter hoc-type conclusions and hypotheses and investigating; it would be more beneficial to be descriptive/positive than normative, and more research is required.
And from jurisprudence and law.
Obscenity, to which proponents of pornography argue that free speech is infringed if suppressed.
If this isn't a false dichotomy, fundamentally flawed, and validity makes any difference, I don't really know what it is though.
On an individual level, pornography is whatever; debate/opinions on pornography is a bit whatever, too. If policies were made regarding pornography and the like, then perhaps this would be a little more stimulating.
Boring in your pornographic tastes is more like it.
I suppose that it could be seen as such. Still, a lot of the "weirder" stuff out there is so far removed from anything I'd actually want to do that it ceases to be sexy. I might watch it for the shock value, but when I'm watching porn, I'm doing it for...the usual reason. And too much of the porn out there is not conducive to that endeavor.
For me at least. If that's what titillates you, knock yourself out.
But seriously speaking, next relationship you get into, try simply asking her what kind of porn she likes. See if you can find some common ground. If you can, suggest watching it together. Because realistically speaking, sex is usually pretty awkward for people until they get used to it, so any foray into a porn-positive relationship would likely be similar. And if done like this it'd be less "cheating on her with porn" and more "having a threesome with her and porn." I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that idea's somewhat more palatable for you (it's not "cheating" if everyone involved gives it the okay).
Yeah, no girl I've ever dated would have been ok with that, quite frankly. Based on their other sexual attitudes, I have absolutely zero doubt on that score.
Maybe it's the Asian thing. We tend towards being prudish.
For me at least. If that's what titillates you, knock yourself out.
What, you mean stuff like this doesn't titillate you?
Made you look. Though I guess there's always this:
You just lost The Game.
Maybe it's the Asian thing. We tend towards being prudish.
I dunno, my Asian friends tend to be about as unrestrained as any other group I know. Though as I'm sure I've said before in this thread (too lazy to check but I'll play the odds), where I live is undoubtedly a factor in how... liberal everyone I know is.
I honestly can't imagine the mindset of being that prudish, at any rate. It seems like something you'd really have to contort yourself into.
I don't remember how it worked so I'll get this as best as I can.
The problem isn't with Pornography, the problem is with your locational culture based on it's religious overtone.
The reason why the USA has such a problem with Pornography is due to the overwhelming social beatings based on Christian ideals. It wasn't untill after the foundation of the Catholic Church that marriage became anything near what it is viewed upon today. Mostly, as it is now, marriage was based upon a tax system. Ironically, the problem is that people often find pornography to be hand in hand with adultry.... which it isn't.... for the most part.
The concept of lusting in your heart, as usually missconstrude, is some how attached to the concept of visual stimulation while masturbating. Also, in many different sects of Christianity, masturbation is viewed upon as a sin... even thought it isn't and their reference are usually bad and often completely misinterpreted.
In short... pornography is fine. People are the bad ones.
Ceebs quoting things, so I'm going to paraphrase and weigh in randomly
- Would we hide porn etc etc:
Personally I don't, though as a sign of times I also do stream quite a bit, it's the entire always something new, which I think is probably what attracts someone like Teia to the *chans.
- The big fun degrading debate:
The only real degradation I have seen in porn (another of them there avid porn watchers :P) are more on the fetishy side namely bdsm/femdom/slavedom, and the sub in that instance is involved in that kind of thing FOR that reason.
As for gender degradation and exploitation, I would refer you to watch the movie "Orgazmo", towards the end there is a semi-philosophic scene about porn exploiting everyone, referenced as a kind of social satire, actually relevant though.
@Teia, I can't lose the game, because you can't lose something that doesn't exist. There is no rule 34 of the game, therefore, game doesn't exist. Put that in your philosophical pipe and smoke it
The first problem of pornography is that most of its female participants (especially since its internet proliferation) aren't your iconic porn star, but women as desperate as prostitutes: they need money and see no other choice that giving their body to who they're ordered to.
The second problem of pornography is that its accessibility sets itself as a norm of sexuality, especially to virgins who have no experience on the matter. And there is actually no morally good standard in these over-the-top distorded scenes of "every single woman has an inner ☺☺☺☺ waiting to be ass-raped while fingering herself and sucking another ****". I find such an implied statement to be very unhealthy for our offspring.
But Michael Bay films are ok?
My only problem with this topic is that I find it offensive that the line is drawn WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too early in the sand. Pornography is bad.... child pornography is super bad.... but dressing an 18 year old girl up in skimpy clothing and having her protray a 16 year old sex symbol in a major hollywood movie.... that's perfectly ok.
It's ok to "sell" sex as long as you aren't "selling" sex. I like the bit I heard once about Pornography and Hollywood. Hollywood tries to sell you the sex that isn't there, while Pornography triest to sell you the acting that isn't there.
Not very. Like Burn, it's a deck I only own/list because I just happen to have the cards for it. If anything I'm liable to sell off the Scrublands, Vindicates, Sinkholes, and other stuff of value just because I honestly don't like the deck that much.
And there is actually no morally good standard in these over-the-top distorded scenes of "every single woman has an inner ☺☺☺☺ waiting to be ass-raped while fingering herself and sucking another ****". I find such an implied statement to be very unhealthy for our offspring.
But the Adonis complex given to guys is totally okay?
But seriously speaking, next relationship you get into, try simply asking her what kind of porn she likes. See if you can find some common ground. If you can, suggest watching it together. Because realistically speaking, sex is usually pretty awkward for people until they get used to it, so any foray into a porn-positive relationship would likely be similar. And if done like this it'd be less "cheating on her with porn" and more "having a threesome with her and porn." I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that idea's somewhat more palatable for you (it's not "cheating" if everyone involved gives it the okay).
With all due respect (we both live in super liberal areas so I get where you're coming from but still) this is horrifically bad advice for anyone beyond yourself or your group of like-mindedly liberal friends. For reasons you state immediately after wards.
Times like this do however make me feel like I'm the weird one just because I've got like no reservations on this subject.
We both have a bad habit of making it clear in every. single. thread where sexuality is brought into the subject that we are the minority where our tastes are normally considered taboo. I think most people who post here are aware that we can testify as exceptions.
The problem comes in when we try to take those exceptions and press them onto other people. Such as right here. Simply because you can feel perfectly comfortable walking up to a love interest and saying "watch this porn with me" and get positive results does not mean that it's a good idea under any stretch of the imagination for someone else to try this out of the blue. I know it might be hard for you to understand because you believe you know a lot on this subject but trust me, in most other places women are not going to be receptive to the idea of watching porn with their date. It just doesn't happen.
Sorry if any of that sounded condescending, but I thought we were treading the dangerous terrain of bad advice and had to chime in. lol.
Actually, we really should differentiate between:
(1) watching the simulated or real sex act, i.e. viewing OTHERS have sex .
(2) looking at naked or extremely titillating pictures of the opposite gender.
Interestingly, the most conservative people consider (1) and (2) to be "porn". Heck, my Catholic teachers used to call the SI swimsuit issue "porn".
More (sexually) liberal people consider only (1) to be "porn" and (2) is something else entirely.
Almost everybody seems to agree that (1) is "porn" (though people at each extreme might argue about the relative obscenity or the "tastefulness" of it)
-
And actually if you examine the psychology of a male enjoying "vanilla" hard core straight porn (male penetration, focus on the male organ, and mandatory "money shots", sometimes anal ) is this really "hetero"?
A straight guy watches pics or videos of naked girls on Playboy or Penthouse, rubs one out while imagining pleasuring them or doing whatever, while fantasizing about having sex, or something along those lines, right?
So what is a straight guy doing pyschologically (in terms of identification) when he's watching (from 3rd person POV) some muscled dude with a giant organ making an O-face, and then spraying a "money shot" on a girl? If a guy is watching that, and pleasuring himself, and being turned on because you're seeing another male getting his "O" (and watching his shot), it seems extremely NOT hetero.
This is just a crackpot theory, but I think the widespread introduction of hardcore "vanilla" hetero video pornography in the last 30 years, might be the mechanism by which many males may have discovered their homosexuality (or many "mostly straight" males have channeled some aspect of their sexuality which is not 100% straight).
Sexuality and intimacy involve heavy identification, and enjoying watching another get pleasure as well as yourself... Rubbing one out to porn involves pretending this is occurring... What does it mean when millions of teens and 20-30 something men are "rubbing one out" while watching Peter North make an O-face, intersperced with shots of his organ spraying everywhere? If you were a voyeur and watching this, the fixation of what the camera is choosing to look at would imply more of a gay perspective than a straight one.
Maybe I'm completely off base, but this is yet another demonstration that sexuality is a lot more complex than just straight or gay,
Watching guys get off never had much appeal to me, and my first reaction was indeed "This is totally gay." But honestly, I think there are more possible explanations for its popularity than just latent homosexual tendencies. The guy in the porn is supposed to be an audience surrogate; just because it's shot from a third-person perspective doesn't mean the viewer isn't identifying with him. As the viewer sees the performer have the experience that he wishes to have as well, he feels those sensations sympathetically, rather than erotically.
Think about a woman watching a chick flick. When she sees the heroine of the movie get flirty and puppy-lovey, and this appeals to her, she's not feeling a lesbian attraction to the heroine. Rather, she's sympathizing with the heroine's straight attraction to the male lead.
It's the old "want to be"/"want to be with" distinction.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I dunno, my Asian friends tend to be about as unrestrained as any other group I know. Though as I'm sure I've said before in this thread (too lazy to check but I'll play the odds), where I live is undoubtedly a factor in how... liberal everyone I know is.
I honestly can't imagine the mindset of being that prudish, at any rate. It seems like something you'd really have to contort yourself into.
Asians tend toward being prudes. Far from all of us are. In general, I've found, Westernization has a strong inverse correlation with prudishness.
I don't know if where you live really has that much to do with it, however. I spent most of the past few years living in Northern California, which is noted for its free-spiritedness (by American standards), and Asians there are no less restrained than they are elsewhere.
Note that all of this is with regards to Asian-Americans, since that's what I know. Japanese porn is...weird.
With all due respect (we both live in super liberal areas so I get where you're coming from but still) this is horrifically bad advice for anyone beyond yourself or your group of like-mindedly liberal friends. For reasons you state immediately after wards.
I did say in one thread that there's no way I'd last very long in a conservative area.
Simply because you can feel perfectly comfortable walking up to a love interest and saying "watch this porn with me" and get positive results does not mean that it's a good idea under any stretch of the imagination for someone else to try this out of the blue. I know it might be hard for you to understand because you believe you know a lot on this subject but trust me, in most other places women are not going to be receptive to the idea of watching porn with their date. It just doesn't happen.
Well, for starters, I'd only bring the mutual porn-watching into it at about the time when sex would be brought into it anyway. I'll grant you that in most places women aren't going to be as casual about sexual topics as I am, but that doesn't mean that if one partner is looking for something a bit more sexually liberal and the other partner is much more conservative, there are going to exist problems anyway. Between that and it being in general healthy to know where the limits are drawn, I see little reason not to bring up the subject at some point.
Think about a woman watching a chick flick. When she sees the heroine of the movie get flirty and puppy-lovey, and this appeals to her, she's not feeling a lesbian attraction to the heroine.
I was going to say "maybe you aren't" but, honestly, I hate chick flicks. Romance can be great. Chick flicks just dial the irritating tropes up to 11.
More (sexually) liberal people consider only (1) to be "porn" and (2) is something else entirely.
Difference between /h/ and /e/, really.
Japanese porn is...weird.
Once you get used to it, it's not really so bad. Although I admit I've managed to get a bit sick of the more overplayed tropes. And I do find it interesting that American-made hentai-styled porn is more enjoyable than the original stuff (I'll save everyone's sanity and not give a list of artists but suffice to say I hang around on /d/).
I was going to say "maybe you aren't" but, honestly, I hate chick flicks. Romance can be great. Chick flicks just dial the irritating tropes up to 11.
If I were talking about you, I would have used your name. I think we've established several times over on this thread that you're way outside the norm.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
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The problem with 4chan is all the stuff I can't unsee.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
I think porn is great and more people should have access to it. I think it can help open people up to new experience and things that will help them grow and be more confident. It is awesome and I think Teia is soo right about the bonding thing. It works wonder's sometimes for the Ms. and I when we get into a rut.
Then stay out of /d/. /e/, /h/, /s/, and whatever else should be enough to get you set up (maybe /u/ if you're into that).
Of course. There are no doubt millions of exceptions to everything I have said. However, I strongly believe that these particular beliefs are widely held by a considerable number of women, and that they strongly influence the societal view of pornography that we are currently discussing.
See, I don't believe in owning a "porn collection" in this day and age. When I'm accessing porn, I do it purely through streaming video sites, and wipe the history afterwards. I don't like the idea of having videos on my hard drive that might one day be found by a girlfriend/wife/mom.
I also probably wouldn't watch porn with a girlfriend. I've never thought to ask, which you would probably say is indicative of my own sexual hang-ups, but I prefer to think of it as me trying not to be a jerk.
And besides which, porn time is ME time.
And I'm not sure declaring it solely to be you time is a good idea. I mean, sure, any given girlfriend you'd get isn't likely to be like me, but even so, finding the right porn, watching it with her, and enjoying the results isn't a bad thing. Unless you're into some truly bizarre stuff, which can actually make it easier to find a partner given shared fetishes are an easy/lazy way to hook up with someone. I'm basically just saying that enjoying porn with your partner is a win-win scenario.
No, I'm pretty conservative in my pornographic tastes. The standard boy-meets-girl, boy **** in her ****** ******* and ****** all over ***** and then ******** girl type of stuff.
For me, the issue is that I've internalized the "Porn is cheating!!!!!" argument, and as such I've come to feel like watching porn while in a relationship is a kind of cheating. Bringing a girlfriend into that would be like if she walked in on me having an actual affair with another woman, and then saying, "No, it's ok because you can join in!"
And frankly, I don't have the cojones to pull off something like that.
It is all still part of the same discussion, really. Would we hide our porn if we didn't feel like the world would judge us if they saw we had it?
But seriously speaking, next relationship you get into, try simply asking her what kind of porn she likes. See if you can find some common ground. If you can, suggest watching it together. Because realistically speaking, sex is usually pretty awkward for people until they get used to it, so any foray into a porn-positive relationship would likely be similar. And if done like this it'd be less "cheating on her with porn" and more "having a threesome with her and porn." I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that idea's somewhat more palatable for you (it's not "cheating" if everyone involved gives it the okay).
Times like this do however make me feel like I'm the weird one just because I've got like no reservations on this subject.
Edit:
I once tried hiding it. I've since gotten to the mental point where I'm really not so concerned about what people might think of me because, what, they'll find out I swing both ways or something? (I don't separate the porn centred around guys from the porn centred around girls) Hardly something to be ashamed of, since I'm not afraid of what they'd think of my fetishes. The "yeah, so?" response goes a really long way on this one.
I may be reinforcing silly stances but I profess to having only perused through the hundreds of posts.
Shame, "badness", and pornography are not consequentially linked.
For the sake of credulity and precision, whom?
"Lust", or "luxuria", is a cardinal sin. Your scope was religion but your understanding is solely that of Western religions, specifically the Christian church (or, at least, a Christian concept), specifically the Roman Catholic subchurch/denomination; neither Eastern/Greek (e.g., Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox) churches do not have the concept of "seven cardinal, or deadly, sins", nor do Reformed churches of the Western/Latin rite. That is not to imply that "lust" or "laws" apropos sexual behaviour and/or immorality do not exist, however.
There is no argument being made here but I thought you might know that you should be more open-minded, inclusionary, and knowledgeable.
Inadequate. That is the word associated with pornography and/or its research.
Sure.
No; non-religious people don't have morals, and you aren't, as though, implying that the non-religious haven't morals, perhaps as a consequence of the absence of religion.
I know that was rather fallacious and replete with faulty logic but the question was ill-phrased and dispensed.
There are arguments for and against pornography and elements thereof. It's a two-sided knife; "some" contend that pornography is the Devil's work and ungodly, that it is degrading and the like to performers and their sex, that it is "immoral", that it is illegal, that it "causes" or is highly correlated with sex crimes, that it is empowering, that its prohibition or banning is suppression of free speech and that beloved First Amendment of the United States Constitution, etc.
Your feelings and expression should be as valid as any others, and it would not cheapen the debate if you just came out.
I can try to cover the argument from religion or faith.
I suppose that it could be seen as such. Still, a lot of the "weirder" stuff out there is so far removed from anything I'd actually want to do that it ceases to be sexy. I might watch it for the shock value, but when I'm watching porn, I'm doing it for...the usual reason. And too much of the porn out there is not conducive to that endeavor.
For me at least. If that's what titillates you, knock yourself out.
Yeah, no girl I've ever dated would have been ok with that, quite frankly. Based on their other sexual attitudes, I have absolutely zero doubt on that score.
Maybe it's the Asian thing. We tend towards being prudish.
What, you mean stuff like this doesn't titillate you?
I dunno, my Asian friends tend to be about as unrestrained as any other group I know. Though as I'm sure I've said before in this thread (too lazy to check but I'll play the odds), where I live is undoubtedly a factor in how... liberal everyone I know is.
I honestly can't imagine the mindset of being that prudish, at any rate. It seems like something you'd really have to contort yourself into.
The problem isn't with Pornography, the problem is with your locational culture based on it's religious overtone.
The reason why the USA has such a problem with Pornography is due to the overwhelming social beatings based on Christian ideals. It wasn't untill after the foundation of the Catholic Church that marriage became anything near what it is viewed upon today. Mostly, as it is now, marriage was based upon a tax system. Ironically, the problem is that people often find pornography to be hand in hand with adultry.... which it isn't.... for the most part.
The concept of lusting in your heart, as usually missconstrude, is some how attached to the concept of visual stimulation while masturbating. Also, in many different sects of Christianity, masturbation is viewed upon as a sin... even thought it isn't and their reference are usually bad and often completely misinterpreted.
In short... pornography is fine. People are the bad ones.
- Would we hide porn etc etc:
Personally I don't, though as a sign of times I also do stream quite a bit, it's the entire always something new, which I think is probably what attracts someone like Teia to the *chans.
- The big fun degrading debate:
The only real degradation I have seen in porn (another of them there avid porn watchers :P) are more on the fetishy side namely bdsm/femdom/slavedom, and the sub in that instance is involved in that kind of thing FOR that reason.
As for gender degradation and exploitation, I would refer you to watch the movie "Orgazmo", towards the end there is a semi-philosophic scene about porn exploiting everyone, referenced as a kind of social satire, actually relevant though.
@Teia, I can't lose the game, because you can't lose something that doesn't exist. There is no rule 34 of the game, therefore, game doesn't exist. Put that in your philosophical pipe and smoke it
Proud member of ARD
Decks:
EDH:
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum :symb::symu::symw:
Type1-1.5:
:symr:Stax:symr:
Type2:
:symw::symu:Photocopier:symu::symw: (Top8 Finishes: 1 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, 2 5th, 1 6th, 1 8th)
:symb:MBC:symb:
Google disagrees with you there.
(slightly off topic, how well does WB pox go?)
Proud member of ARD
Decks:
EDH:
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum :symb::symu::symw:
Type1-1.5:
:symr:Stax:symr:
Type2:
:symw::symu:Photocopier:symu::symw: (Top8 Finishes: 1 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, 2 5th, 1 6th, 1 8th)
:symb:MBC:symb:
If people are still discussing the topic, I thought this was an interesting take on it. No hard data, but I do see a lot of things to identify with.
But Michael Bay films are ok?
My only problem with this topic is that I find it offensive that the line is drawn WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too early in the sand. Pornography is bad.... child pornography is super bad.... but dressing an 18 year old girl up in skimpy clothing and having her protray a 16 year old sex symbol in a major hollywood movie.... that's perfectly ok.
It's ok to "sell" sex as long as you aren't "selling" sex. I like the bit I heard once about Pornography and Hollywood. Hollywood tries to sell you the sex that isn't there, while Pornography triest to sell you the acting that isn't there.
Not very. Like Burn, it's a deck I only own/list because I just happen to have the cards for it. If anything I'm liable to sell off the Scrublands, Vindicates, Sinkholes, and other stuff of value just because I honestly don't like the deck that much.
But the Adonis complex given to guys is totally okay?
With all due respect (we both live in super liberal areas so I get where you're coming from but still) this is horrifically bad advice for anyone beyond yourself or your group of like-mindedly liberal friends. For reasons you state immediately after wards.
We both have a bad habit of making it clear in every. single. thread where sexuality is brought into the subject that we are the minority where our tastes are normally considered taboo. I think most people who post here are aware that we can testify as exceptions.
The problem comes in when we try to take those exceptions and press them onto other people. Such as right here. Simply because you can feel perfectly comfortable walking up to a love interest and saying "watch this porn with me" and get positive results does not mean that it's a good idea under any stretch of the imagination for someone else to try this out of the blue. I know it might be hard for you to understand because you believe you know a lot on this subject but trust me, in most other places women are not going to be receptive to the idea of watching porn with their date. It just doesn't happen.
Sorry if any of that sounded condescending, but I thought we were treading the dangerous terrain of bad advice and had to chime in. lol.
(1) watching the simulated or real sex act, i.e. viewing OTHERS have sex .
(2) looking at naked or extremely titillating pictures of the opposite gender.
Interestingly, the most conservative people consider (1) and (2) to be "porn". Heck, my Catholic teachers used to call the SI swimsuit issue "porn".
More (sexually) liberal people consider only (1) to be "porn" and (2) is something else entirely.
Almost everybody seems to agree that (1) is "porn" (though people at each extreme might argue about the relative obscenity or the "tastefulness" of it)
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And actually if you examine the psychology of a male enjoying "vanilla" hard core straight porn (male penetration, focus on the male organ, and mandatory "money shots", sometimes anal ) is this really "hetero"?
A straight guy watches pics or videos of naked girls on Playboy or Penthouse, rubs one out while imagining pleasuring them or doing whatever, while fantasizing about having sex, or something along those lines, right?
So what is a straight guy doing pyschologically (in terms of identification) when he's watching (from 3rd person POV) some muscled dude with a giant organ making an O-face, and then spraying a "money shot" on a girl? If a guy is watching that, and pleasuring himself, and being turned on because you're seeing another male getting his "O" (and watching his shot), it seems extremely NOT hetero.
This is just a crackpot theory, but I think the widespread introduction of hardcore "vanilla" hetero video pornography in the last 30 years, might be the mechanism by which many males may have discovered their homosexuality (or many "mostly straight" males have channeled some aspect of their sexuality which is not 100% straight).
Sexuality and intimacy involve heavy identification, and enjoying watching another get pleasure as well as yourself... Rubbing one out to porn involves pretending this is occurring... What does it mean when millions of teens and 20-30 something men are "rubbing one out" while watching Peter North make an O-face, intersperced with shots of his organ spraying everywhere? If you were a voyeur and watching this, the fixation of what the camera is choosing to look at would imply more of a gay perspective than a straight one.
Maybe I'm completely off base, but this is yet another demonstration that sexuality is a lot more complex than just straight or gay,
Think about a woman watching a chick flick. When she sees the heroine of the movie get flirty and puppy-lovey, and this appeals to her, she's not feeling a lesbian attraction to the heroine. Rather, she's sympathizing with the heroine's straight attraction to the male lead.
It's the old "want to be"/"want to be with" distinction.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Asians tend toward being prudes. Far from all of us are. In general, I've found, Westernization has a strong inverse correlation with prudishness.
I don't know if where you live really has that much to do with it, however. I spent most of the past few years living in Northern California, which is noted for its free-spiritedness (by American standards), and Asians there are no less restrained than they are elsewhere.
Note that all of this is with regards to Asian-Americans, since that's what I know. Japanese porn is...weird.
I did say in one thread that there's no way I'd last very long in a conservative area.
Well, for starters, I'd only bring the mutual porn-watching into it at about the time when sex would be brought into it anyway. I'll grant you that in most places women aren't going to be as casual about sexual topics as I am, but that doesn't mean that if one partner is looking for something a bit more sexually liberal and the other partner is much more conservative, there are going to exist problems anyway. Between that and it being in general healthy to know where the limits are drawn, I see little reason not to bring up the subject at some point.
I was going to say "maybe you aren't" but, honestly, I hate chick flicks. Romance can be great. Chick flicks just dial the irritating tropes up to 11.
Difference between /h/ and /e/, really.
Once you get used to it, it's not really so bad. Although I admit I've managed to get a bit sick of the more overplayed tropes. And I do find it interesting that American-made hentai-styled porn is more enjoyable than the original stuff (I'll save everyone's sanity and not give a list of artists but suffice to say I hang around on /d/).
If I were talking about you, I would have used your name. I think we've established several times over on this thread that you're way outside the norm.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.