So this is some shocking and bewildering ***** right here, let me tell you.
That there are idiots running around propagating the removal of the separation of church-and-state is not a surprise. That the same idiots might oppose actual education is also not a surprise.
What boggles the mind is 11 out of the 15 total votes went in favor of banning AP US History. (That the votes apparently being split right down party lines, 11 Republicans for, 4 Democrats against, is less boggling, but seriously?! Not a single Republican in favor of an actual historical education?!)
It's staggering.
So what do you think, debaters? What do you think of this attempt to replace a course on the history of America with a course on the history of 'Murica?
So what do you think, debaters? What do you think of this attempt to replace a course on the history of America with a course on the history of 'Murica?
Let me start by saying, I'm not defending them. Dropping an AP curriculum is ridiculous, and shouldn't happen.
That being said, I think you have this backwards. They aren't attempting to replace a course on the history of America with a course on the history of 'Murica. They are protesting (in a very poor way) the alteration in focus on the AP exam from positive aspects of America's history to Negative aspects of America's history. I think they are wrong to protest it by punishing the students who will now likely miss out on an extremely beneficial program, but they aren't necessarily wrong to protest the emphasis change [assuming they are correct in their analysis of the emphasis change.]
That said, I don't know crap about the new changes (I hated US history, and took AP European History instead). So, I don't know if their complaint is reasonable or not. I do know, that you are mischaracterizing the complaint.
Assuming they are correct in their analysis of the emphasis change is charitable, but is it wise? This isn't a school board, but a legislative committee at the state level. In Oklahoma, for what thats worth.
A quick browse of HR's articles has a common thread from recent, knee jerk reactions by the Republican party. References to common core (It's the Obamacare of Education!) which AP classes aren't, but could be used for the dreaded "national education standards" that have the people who want to teach creationism, abstinence only sex ed, and American Exceptionalism a fit.
What the heck is a Black Robe Regiment? Anti-KKK, maybe?
Sadly, no,
Quote from From their main page, bolds mine »
The Black Robe Regiment is a resource and networking entity where church leaders and laypeople can network and educate themselves as to our biblical responsibility to stand up for our Lord and Savior and to protect the freedoms and liberties granted to a moral people in the divinely inspired US Constitution. The Regiment had its historical beginnings during the Revolutionary War when Pastors from across the colonies arose and lead their congregations into the battle for freedom. Unlike today, the church during this time served as the center-point for political debate and discussion on the relevant news of the day. Today's church leaders have all but lost that concept of leading their congregations in a Godly manner in all aspects of their worldly existence and are afraid to speak out against the progressive agenda that has dominated our political system for the past century. Through this time the church and God himself has been under assault, marginalized, and diminished by the progressives and secularists. The false wall of separation of church and state has been constructed in such a manner that most are unaware of its limited boundaries. The church and the body of Christ has been attacked on all fronts and challenged by the progressive courts and groups such as the ACLU while we have sat idle in consent.
The time has come that we must now arise and awaken to the danger of this hyper-progressive agenda that so permeates every aspect of our political, legal, and educational systems. It is time now to educate ourselves and push back against the erosion of our freedoms and liberties and restore the constitutional authority back to all aspects of our governance. It will take the leaders of our churches to shepherd their flocks as did their predecessors during our first fight for liberty.
Your charity, sadly, was misplaced, bLatch. This bill, like many others like it that pops up in (mostly) the South is just another way for people to try and keep kids from learning "worldly" things.
Blatch is right that in theory their objections could be justified as a protest against the perceived overreach of Federal power. I think it's not unreasonable to say that education is best left to the states and too much central intervention or "bureaucratizing" of education creates a variety of problems.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
As a conservative with awareness of potential media bias, I am not going to be quick to judge regarding the propriety of the campaign against AP US History without more facts/details than what is in the linked article alone.
There is already enough America hating in the US with the antagonism toward the NSA, heroism of Snowden, distrust of police, etc. etc. I certainly would not hope for the education system to espouse more of these ideals that may have dangerous future repercussions.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
As a conservative with awareness of potential media bias, I am not going to be quick to judge regarding the propriety of the campaign against AP US History without more facts/details than what is in the linked article alone.
There is already enough America hating in the US with the antagonism toward the NSA, heroism of Snowden, distrust of police, etc. etc. I certainly would not hope for the education system to espouse more of these ideals that may have dangerous future repercussions.
There's such a thing as unproductive/unrealistic "America hating" but of course the same is also true of extreme "America loving." The US has a history of great achievements and great ideals, as well and major failures and moments when it has fallen far short of its ideals.
An effective history class would present a plurality of views. I have no idea if that's what the AP History curriculum does. Frankly, at the AP level, the curriculum should be more focused on teaching students the skills to do their own research about historical events, rather than indoctrinating them into any fixed curriculum.
but they aren't necessarily wrong to protest the emphasis change [assuming they are correct in their analysis of the emphasis change.]
That said, I don't know crap about the new changes (I hated US history, and took AP European History instead). So, I don't know if their complaint is reasonable or not. I do know, that you are mischaracterizing the complaint.
"I don't know anything about the situation, but I know that you are wrong."
Blatch is right that in theory their objections could be justified as a protest against the perceived overreach of Federal power. I think it's not unreasonable to say that education is best left to the states and too much central intervention or "bureaucratizing" of education creates a variety of problems.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
Which is, again, not at all surprising. What's really surprising is the fact that 11 people voted with them.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
Which is, again, not at all surprising. What's really surprising is the fact that 11 people voted with them.
Have you ever been to Oklahoma?
To be fair, though, this barely registers on the "idiotic things religious fundamentalists have done" scale.
Actually, no, I have not. Is religious fundamentalism so rooted there?
It's always a mistake to generalize an entire region like this, but largely OK embodies the popular stereotypes of Texas (much more than Texas does, IMHO). It's a very rural, flat state without significant metropolitan centers or other areas that would facilitate regular cultural exchange. According to this map it's tied with Arkansas for the highest proportion of evangelicals in the US, and it has a very low number of non-Christians. Everyone I've personally met from OK has been a member of an evangelical tradition (either Baptist or Church of Christ) and very religious.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
As a conservative with awareness of potential media bias, I am not going to be quick to judge regarding the propriety of the campaign against AP US History without more facts/details than what is in the linked article alone.
There is already enough America hating in the US with the antagonism toward the NSA, heroism of Snowden, distrust of police, etc. etc. I certainly would not hope for the education system to espouse more of these ideals that may have dangerous future repercussions.
I'm a conservative, and many of us do do stupid things to limit the freedom we so resoundly proclaim to protect. It goes back to the core problem at the state level, that in many areas the two parties are not at all competitive enough. These parties are weak, and a lack of regional competition at the local level leads to these problems at the state and federal level with parliamentary politics in a presidential system. Vengeance, no, rather justice against a system that attempted to destroy people, comes from a simple fact. That you need to educate to keep out of ignorance, and that self education comes at the price of discipline and time.
For the most part, there are three different sources that come out of public hearings and other public documents that make the assertion of bias contemptible on the basics of the narrative. Furthermore, what becomes true is that conservatives do short fall people based on party lines. We vote more in concert with the party line, even if it is stupid because we're loyal and more organized than the loose affiliations that the liberals have.
Rather than trying to rebuild our society through diligence and a steady hand, we espouse fear of centralization. The state can no longer compete with the global economy as a model for efficiency when it comes to individual freedoms. This has been proven since the failure of Jim Crow, this is why in part many minorities resort to federal over state. Simply because states are more regionalized and more prone to discrimination than at the pluralistic federal level. It pisses off localists with that historical argument and fact, but the trend still continues. That the more localized the inanity of peculiar beliefs leads to insolence against the Constitutions and our Founding ideals. Heresy against the Enlightenment, this is why education fails here. Henceforth, this is precisely why we suck and fail our young at education.
We all want to see our high school football teams win and our children win their soccer regions, but heaven forbid we encourage the scholar among us to achieve great works and indeed reach their true intellectual potential prior to an expensive collect. This is against Jeffersonian democracy, for it heralds back to demonstrably daemonic forces within the righist social police socialist collective.
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I'm a conservative, and many of us do do stupid things to limit the freedom we so resoundly proclaim to protect. It goes back to the core problem at the state level, that in many areas the two parties are not at all competitive enough. These parties are weak, and a lack of regional competition at the local level leads to these problems at the state and federal level with parliamentary politics in a presidential system.
"Parliamentary politics"? Perhaps you mean partisan politics?
Vengeance, no, rather justice against a system that attempted to destroy people, comes from a simple fact. That you need to educate to keep out of ignorance, and that self education comes at the price of discipline and time.
What does any of that mean?
For the most part, there are three different sources that come out of public hearings and other public documents that make the assertion of bias contemptible on the basics of the narrative.
Furthermore, what does any of that mean?
Rather than trying to rebuild our society through diligence and a steady hand, we espouse fear of centralization. The state can no longer compete with the global economy as a model for efficiency when it comes to individual freedoms.
Wait, what? "Compete with the global economy" with regards to "individual freedoms"?
It's like you're constructing your post out of madlibs, taking various political-sounding nouns and noun phrases and putting them together without heed to whether the sentence makes sense.
This has been proven since the failure of Jim Crow, this is why in part many minorities resort to federal over state.
Jim Crow laws were not solely enacted on the state level. There was federal segregation.
That the more localized the inanity of peculiar beliefs leads to insolence against the Constitutions and our Founding ideals.
"The Constitutions"?
This is against Jeffersonian democracy, for it heralds back to demonstrably daemonic forces within the righist social police socialist collective.
You know, I was going to point out that's not what Jeffersonian democracy means, but... Screw it. Not worth it.
There is already enough America hating in the US with the antagonism toward the NSA, heroism of Snowden, distrust of police, etc. etc. I certainly would not hope for the education system to espouse more of these ideals that may have dangerous future repercussions.
I genuinely love the idealistic foundations of the U.S.
So I am more than willing to call out the absolute bull***** people in the U.S. has done that goes against those idealistic foundations.
What these Republicans are doing have nothing to do with loving or hating the U.S. It's whitewashing, pure and simple.
As a random aside, the idealist part of me detests the NSA policies that Snowden unveiled. The practical/realist side of me fully recognize why the NSA does what it does, and consider Snowden to be a traitor and an idiot.
But the practical/realist side of me doesn't love the idealistic foundations of the U.S. one bit either.
The emphasis of AP courses is critical thinking, or at least it used to be. Teaching the negative aspects of the United States is just as important, if not more so, than teaching the positive aspects of American history. You really can't have one without the other, and you get a LOT more negative history if all your do is focus on the positive history. For a democracy, it's an abhorrent prospect to have your citizens running around thinking democracy is perfect and that your nation is best nation. [Syntax intended]
I wouldn't care if the textbook spins everything in a negative light. Conscientious citizens should question everything. Guess what? Our founding fathers and our leaders through most of history were actually pretty big ********s in a wide variety of ways. It doesn't make their ideals, nor what their ideals have grown into, any less important or relevant. It just teaches us the people are people, and that no one is infallible.
The emphasis of AP courses is critical thinking, or at least it used to be. Teaching the negative aspects of the United States is just as important, if not more so, than teaching the positive aspects of American history. You really can't have one without the other, and you get a LOT more negative history if all your do is focus on the positive history. For a democracy, it's an abhorrent prospect to have your citizens running around thinking democracy is perfect and that your nation is best nation.
I wouldn't care if the textbook spins everything in a negative light. Conscientious citizens should question everything. Guess what? Our founding fathers and our leaders through most of history were actually pretty big ********s in a wide variety of ways. It doesn't make their ideals, nor what their ideals have grown into, any less important or relevant. It just teaches us the people are people, and that no one is infallible.
You're assuming that the critical thinking lessons take root, but that seems to be something the education system has a problem accomplishing. I'm certain we've both met just as many people who think the country is uniquely evil as uniquely good - who think American misdeeds discredit American ideals rather than illustrate just how important they are not to take for granted.
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candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
You're assuming that the critical thinking lessons take root, but that seems to be something the education system has a problem accomplishing. I'm certain we've both met just as many people who think the country is uniquely evil as uniquely good - who think American misdeeds discredit American ideals rather than illustrate just how important they are not to take for granted.
I agree with you on the education system's track record, however we're talking about AP classes here, where the caliber of student is higher than average and has the best chance of the lesson taking root. If it wasn't for an excellent high school History teacher, I seriously doubt that I'd be anything other than the America rah rah kind of guy all my Firefighter buddies are.
In any case, yes, unthinking rebellion isn't any more productive than anything else, but I seriously doubt the issue here is that these AP kids are graduating and planning to defect. By letting kids know about all the bad things America has done, they're more conscious about the all the bull***** that's going to be run past them at some point in the future so that we can focus on the good. Even if the critical thinking piece doesn't completely sink in, there is value to be gained there.
Kids get enough "America is the best!" in their first 11 years of school that I doubt a semester about how that attitude can be warped is going to do any lasting harm.
Granted, I'd have to echo bLatch here a bit and say this is kind of hard to argue without knowing the exact details of every plan, but on the surface this looks shady as all get out.
I wouldn't care if the textbook spins everything in a negative light.
I certainly would. I would care as much as if a textbook were to spin everything in a positive light. Why? Because it's spin either way.
If all you're teaching is spin, then you're indoctrinating your students, not educating them.
That's a good point, and it was a poor choice of words.
What I meant was that context is important for understanding history instead of just memorizing names and dates. That context is critically important for history to mean anything or have any real purpose in being taught - which means that the negative aspects of events, and not just the 'patriotic' side, be taught.
Also, I've done some more research into this, and the issues the legislators have a problem with were things like internment of Japanese Americans or persecution of American Indians, while not including anything about the founding fathers, the war of independence and the bill of rights. The issue is, the old framework didn't mention those issues, either.
I agree with you on the education system's track record, however we're talking about AP classes here, where the caliber of student is higher than average and has the best chance of the lesson taking root.
Fair enough. I think Highroller put his finger on what bothered me about your comments better than I did.
In any case, yes, unthinking rebellion isn't any more productive than anything else, but I seriously doubt the issue here is that these AP kids are graduating and planning to defect.
The problem isn't rebellion or defection - it's the replacement of healthy and engaged skepticism with nihilistic cynicism. The number of people emigrating for political reasons is statistically insignificant, but those who think that voting is a sham and freedom of speech is a right-wing dogma are worryingly common.
Granted, I'd have to echo bLatch here a bit and say this is kind of hard to argue without knowing the exact details of every plan, but on the surface this looks shady as all get out.
"Shady" isn't exactly the word I'd use, because there's nothing subtle about what agenda they're pushing.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I agree with you on the education system's track record, however we're talking about AP classes here, where the caliber of student is higher than average and has the best chance of the lesson taking root.
Fair enough. I think Highroller put his finger on what bothered me about your comments better than I did.
In any case, yes, unthinking rebellion isn't any more productive than anything else, but I seriously doubt the issue here is that these AP kids are graduating and planning to defect.
The problem isn't rebellion or defection - it's the replacement of healthy and engaged skepticism with nihilistic cynicism. The number of people emigrating for political reasons is statistically insignificant, but those who think that voting is a sham and freedom of speech is a right-wing dogma are worryingly common.
Granted, I'd have to echo bLatch here a bit and say this is kind of hard to argue without knowing the exact details of every plan, but on the surface this looks shady as all get out.
"Shady" isn't exactly the word I'd use, because it implies a certain subtlety that is hardly in evidence here.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The problem isn't rebellion or defection - it's the replacement of healthy and engaged skepticism with nihilistic cynicism. The number of people emigrating for political reasons is statistically insignificant, but those who think that voting is a sham and freedom of speech is a right-wing dogma are worryingly common.
Fair enough. I was overzealous in my initial reaction to this, and I think we actually agree here.
Actually, no, I have not. Is religious fundamentalism so rooted there?
the problem with america today is "fundamentalism" has not boundaries and is all over the country. It very much is reflected by elections!
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I agree with you on the education system's track record, however we're talking about AP classes here, where the caliber of student is higher than average and has the best chance of the lesson taking root.
Fair enough. I think Highroller put his finger on what bothered me about your comments better than I did.
In any case, yes, unthinking rebellion isn't any more productive than anything else, but I seriously doubt the issue here is that these AP kids are graduating and planning to defect.
The problem isn't rebellion or defection - it's the replacement of healthy and engaged skepticism with nihilistic cynicism. The number of people emigrating for political reasons is statistically insignificant, but those who think that voting is a sham and freedom of speech is a right-wing dogma are worryingly common.
Granted, I'd have to echo bLatch here a bit and say this is kind of hard to argue without knowing the exact details of every plan, but on the surface this looks shady as all get out.
"Shady" isn't exactly the word I'd use, because it implies a certain subtlety that is hardly in evidence here.
Voting is a sham, because of the lack of choice within the governmental circles at different offices. For example, for a country of millions of people, why do we only have 2 choices on voting day and *maybe* a third? Because the nihilism is reflected in the reality that "choosing the lesser of two evils, is indeed choosing evil." I do vote, and see some sway in it and mostly more at the state and local levels. But let us also be honest about the system, that we have a factious system that preys upon keeping alternative parties weak. The very system for how electorates are created is inherently a part of the very spoils system we have been fighting well over a century.
I do vote, but I dislike my choices and do write the need for greater competition is necessary for government to persist.
Freedom os speech is also painfully obvious as a luxury and does not truly exist without a context, and the meaning of freedom varies greatly.
Yet, it is not through cynicism that stoicism found root and took to grow into a might tree? That the only true miracle is the miracle of hard work.
Binary, illusive and ultimately lacking in potential for the current political system. It must evolve, and it will only come in the twilight of darkness in a situation that will bring the motherland to it's knees. To look into the mirror the evil that it has become, the ultimate devastation that has degenerated from an Empire of Liberty to an Empire of Degeneration.
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http://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-teachers-are-not-too-pleased-about-bill-ban-ap-us-history-308129
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/02/why-oklahoma-lawmakers-want-to-ban-ap-us-history.html
So this is some shocking and bewildering ***** right here, let me tell you.
That there are idiots running around propagating the removal of the separation of church-and-state is not a surprise. That the same idiots might oppose actual education is also not a surprise.
What boggles the mind is 11 out of the 15 total votes went in favor of banning AP US History. (That the votes apparently being split right down party lines, 11 Republicans for, 4 Democrats against, is less boggling, but seriously?! Not a single Republican in favor of an actual historical education?!)
It's staggering.
So what do you think, debaters? What do you think of this attempt to replace a course on the history of America with a course on the history of 'Murica?
Let me start by saying, I'm not defending them. Dropping an AP curriculum is ridiculous, and shouldn't happen.
That being said, I think you have this backwards. They aren't attempting to replace a course on the history of America with a course on the history of 'Murica. They are protesting (in a very poor way) the alteration in focus on the AP exam from positive aspects of America's history to Negative aspects of America's history. I think they are wrong to protest it by punishing the students who will now likely miss out on an extremely beneficial program, but they aren't necessarily wrong to protest the emphasis change [assuming they are correct in their analysis of the emphasis change.]
That said, I don't know crap about the new changes (I hated US history, and took AP European History instead). So, I don't know if their complaint is reasonable or not. I do know, that you are mischaracterizing the complaint.
A quick browse of HR's articles has a common thread from recent, knee jerk reactions by the Republican party. References to common core (It's the Obamacare of Education!) which AP classes aren't, but could be used for the dreaded "national education standards" that have the people who want to teach creationism, abstinence only sex ed, and American Exceptionalism a fit.
Oh, and the guy who is putting the bill forward is a member of http://www.blackrobereg.org/
What the heck is a Black Robe Regiment? Anti-KKK, maybe?
Sadly, no,
Your charity, sadly, was misplaced, bLatch. This bill, like many others like it that pops up in (mostly) the South is just another way for people to try and keep kids from learning "worldly" things.
That said, from everything I've seen this doesn't appear to be the thrust of their objection. It looks like what's happening in OK is basically a manifestation of fringe religious and nationalist ideologies.
There is already enough America hating in the US with the antagonism toward the NSA, heroism of Snowden, distrust of police, etc. etc. I certainly would not hope for the education system to espouse more of these ideals that may have dangerous future repercussions.
There's such a thing as unproductive/unrealistic "America hating" but of course the same is also true of extreme "America loving." The US has a history of great achievements and great ideals, as well and major failures and moments when it has fallen far short of its ideals.
An effective history class would present a plurality of views. I have no idea if that's what the AP History curriculum does. Frankly, at the AP level, the curriculum should be more focused on teaching students the skills to do their own research about historical events, rather than indoctrinating them into any fixed curriculum.
Wow bLatch.
Which is, again, not at all surprising. What's really surprising is the fact that 11 people voted with them.
How are any of these "America-hating"?
Have you ever been to Oklahoma?
To be fair, though, this barely registers on the "idiotic things religious fundamentalists have done" scale.
It's always a mistake to generalize an entire region like this, but largely OK embodies the popular stereotypes of Texas (much more than Texas does, IMHO). It's a very rural, flat state without significant metropolitan centers or other areas that would facilitate regular cultural exchange. According to this map it's tied with Arkansas for the highest proportion of evangelicals in the US, and it has a very low number of non-Christians. Everyone I've personally met from OK has been a member of an evangelical tradition (either Baptist or Church of Christ) and very religious.
I'm a conservative, and many of us do do stupid things to limit the freedom we so resoundly proclaim to protect. It goes back to the core problem at the state level, that in many areas the two parties are not at all competitive enough. These parties are weak, and a lack of regional competition at the local level leads to these problems at the state and federal level with parliamentary politics in a presidential system. Vengeance, no, rather justice against a system that attempted to destroy people, comes from a simple fact. That you need to educate to keep out of ignorance, and that self education comes at the price of discipline and time.
For the most part, there are three different sources that come out of public hearings and other public documents that make the assertion of bias contemptible on the basics of the narrative. Furthermore, what becomes true is that conservatives do short fall people based on party lines. We vote more in concert with the party line, even if it is stupid because we're loyal and more organized than the loose affiliations that the liberals have.
Rather than trying to rebuild our society through diligence and a steady hand, we espouse fear of centralization. The state can no longer compete with the global economy as a model for efficiency when it comes to individual freedoms. This has been proven since the failure of Jim Crow, this is why in part many minorities resort to federal over state. Simply because states are more regionalized and more prone to discrimination than at the pluralistic federal level. It pisses off localists with that historical argument and fact, but the trend still continues. That the more localized the inanity of peculiar beliefs leads to insolence against the Constitutions and our Founding ideals. Heresy against the Enlightenment, this is why education fails here. Henceforth, this is precisely why we suck and fail our young at education.
We all want to see our high school football teams win and our children win their soccer regions, but heaven forbid we encourage the scholar among us to achieve great works and indeed reach their true intellectual potential prior to an expensive collect. This is against Jeffersonian democracy, for it heralds back to demonstrably daemonic forces within the righist social police socialist collective.
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What does any of that mean?
Furthermore, what does any of that mean?
Wait, what? "Compete with the global economy" with regards to "individual freedoms"?
It's like you're constructing your post out of madlibs, taking various political-sounding nouns and noun phrases and putting them together without heed to whether the sentence makes sense.
Jim Crow laws were not solely enacted on the state level. There was federal segregation.
"The Constitutions"?
You know, I was going to point out that's not what Jeffersonian democracy means, but... Screw it. Not worth it.
I genuinely love the idealistic foundations of the U.S.
So I am more than willing to call out the absolute bull***** people in the U.S. has done that goes against those idealistic foundations.
What these Republicans are doing have nothing to do with loving or hating the U.S. It's whitewashing, pure and simple.
As a random aside, the idealist part of me detests the NSA policies that Snowden unveiled. The practical/realist side of me fully recognize why the NSA does what it does, and consider Snowden to be a traitor and an idiot.
But the practical/realist side of me doesn't love the idealistic foundations of the U.S. one bit either.
The emphasis of AP courses is critical thinking, or at least it used to be. Teaching the negative aspects of the United States is just as important, if not more so, than teaching the positive aspects of American history. You really can't have one without the other, and you get a LOT more negative history if all your do is focus on the positive history. For a democracy, it's an abhorrent prospect to have your citizens running around thinking democracy is perfect and that your nation is best nation. [Syntax intended]
I wouldn't care if the textbook spins everything in a negative light. Conscientious citizens should question everything. Guess what? Our founding fathers and our leaders through most of history were actually pretty big ********s in a wide variety of ways. It doesn't make their ideals, nor what their ideals have grown into, any less important or relevant. It just teaches us the people are people, and that no one is infallible.
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candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
In any case, yes, unthinking rebellion isn't any more productive than anything else, but I seriously doubt the issue here is that these AP kids are graduating and planning to defect. By letting kids know about all the bad things America has done, they're more conscious about the all the bull***** that's going to be run past them at some point in the future so that we can focus on the good. Even if the critical thinking piece doesn't completely sink in, there is value to be gained there.
Kids get enough "America is the best!" in their first 11 years of school that I doubt a semester about how that attitude can be warped is going to do any lasting harm.
Granted, I'd have to echo bLatch here a bit and say this is kind of hard to argue without knowing the exact details of every plan, but on the surface this looks shady as all get out.
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If all you're teaching is spin, then you're indoctrinating your students, not educating them.
What I meant was that context is important for understanding history instead of just memorizing names and dates. That context is critically important for history to mean anything or have any real purpose in being taught - which means that the negative aspects of events, and not just the 'patriotic' side, be taught.
Also, I've done some more research into this, and the issues the legislators have a problem with were things like internment of Japanese Americans or persecution of American Indians, while not including anything about the founding fathers, the war of independence and the bill of rights. The issue is, the old framework didn't mention those issues, either.
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The problem isn't rebellion or defection - it's the replacement of healthy and engaged skepticism with nihilistic cynicism. The number of people emigrating for political reasons is statistically insignificant, but those who think that voting is a sham and freedom of speech is a right-wing dogma are worryingly common.
"Shady" isn't exactly the word I'd use, because there's nothing subtle about what agenda they're pushing.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The problem isn't rebellion or defection - it's the replacement of healthy and engaged skepticism with nihilistic cynicism. The number of people emigrating for political reasons is statistically insignificant, but those who think that voting is a sham and freedom of speech is a right-wing dogma are worryingly common.
"Shady" isn't exactly the word I'd use, because it implies a certain subtlety that is hardly in evidence here.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Ya, I cringe a little inside whenever I read or hear people say that voting is useless and the government isn't doing what it's supposed to do.
the problem with america today is "fundamentalism" has not boundaries and is all over the country. It very much is reflected by elections!
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Voting is a sham, because of the lack of choice within the governmental circles at different offices. For example, for a country of millions of people, why do we only have 2 choices on voting day and *maybe* a third? Because the nihilism is reflected in the reality that "choosing the lesser of two evils, is indeed choosing evil." I do vote, and see some sway in it and mostly more at the state and local levels. But let us also be honest about the system, that we have a factious system that preys upon keeping alternative parties weak. The very system for how electorates are created is inherently a part of the very spoils system we have been fighting well over a century.
I do vote, but I dislike my choices and do write the need for greater competition is necessary for government to persist.
Freedom os speech is also painfully obvious as a luxury and does not truly exist without a context, and the meaning of freedom varies greatly.
This explains a lot of the issues with freedom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc
In the end everything is the same.
Yet, it is not through cynicism that stoicism found root and took to grow into a might tree? That the only true miracle is the miracle of hard work.
Binary, illusive and ultimately lacking in potential for the current political system. It must evolve, and it will only come in the twilight of darkness in a situation that will bring the motherland to it's knees. To look into the mirror the evil that it has become, the ultimate devastation that has degenerated from an Empire of Liberty to an Empire of Degeneration.
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