Interesting... We get collectively shafted in the economic "recovery" and now our "TBTF" banks are raking in profit hand over fist to the tune of a billion per month or better.
It isn't so much that "they" (you know, the they or them of conspiracy theory lore that never get identified lol) are out to get us, but our collective ignorance that will be our downfall. Everything I've read recently pertaining to our economic situation says something to the effect that we're not out of the woods yet... Guess our banks didn't get that memo....
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
The banks are actually skating on thin ice right now because the Fed has kept them on life support for almost 5 years. So while they appear to be reaping insane profits, it is solely because of the printing presses and ZIRP.
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
The banks are actually skating on thin ice right now because the Fed has kept them on life support for almost 5 years. So while they appear to be reaping insane profits, it is solely because of the printing presses and ZIRP.
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
Now this, this is a testable hypothesis. To pass muster, all banks must instantly fail when QE is stopped and interest rates are raised at all.
The banks are actually skating on thin ice right now because the Fed has kept them on life support for almost 5 years. So while they appear to be reaping insane profits, it is solely because of the printing presses and ZIRP.
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
Now this, this is a testable hypothesis. To pass muster, all banks must instantly fail when QE is stopped and interest rates are raised at all.
I am willing to bet banks have a little leeway before it becomes troublesome. But I agree it should happen to all after a while.
The banks are actually skating on thin ice right now because the Fed has kept them on life support for almost 5 years. So while they appear to be reaping insane profits, it is solely because of the printing presses and ZIRP.
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
Now this, this is a testable hypothesis. To pass muster, all banks must instantly fail when QE is stopped and interest rates are raised at all.
I am willing to bet banks have a little leeway before it becomes troublesome. But I agree it should happen to all after a while.
I don't think they will all fail, but what you will see is when the government stops buying up this toxic debt they created lenders will slow down on their lending.
interest rates are rising which means you are going to see less people borrowing. which is a good thing. we need to start paying off debt not being able to get more of it. raising interest rates if the first way to do it.
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The banks are actually skating on thin ice right now because the Fed has kept them on life support for almost 5 years. So while they appear to be reaping insane profits, it is solely because of the printing presses and ZIRP.
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
Now this, this is a testable hypothesis. To pass muster, all banks must instantly fail when QE is stopped and interest rates are raised at all.
I am willing to bet banks have a little leeway before it becomes troublesome. But I agree it should happen to all after a while.
I don't think they will all fail, but what you will see is when the government stops buying up this toxic debt they created lenders will slow down on their lending.
interest rates are rising which means you are going to see less people borrowing. which is a good thing. we need to start paying off debt not being able to get more of it. raising interest rates if the first way to do it.
Personally what I think will happen is the banks will consolidate. We will see less banks to deal with. I live in a rural area with less then 4000 people and we have 5 banks all with in a mile of each other. If the rates go up, all those banks will not be able to survive. So they will start buying each other out and we should end up with 1 or 2 banks in the same area.
Its kind of bad for the economy. We dont need more people out of work. But we have to bite the bullet sooner or later if we are going to fix the mess we are in.
Y'all missed that point... I was merely pointing out that in this economy, when you have people losing their houses to foreclosures, cities going under, and a "world financial crisis", you have the companies who act as the middle man in this scenario profiting to the tune of a billion dollars per month each...
The middle man here of course are the banks which borrow from the central bank and then lend that out to people/businesses. So the central bank turns a profit from the interest that they charge, and the "middle man" banks turn profits from loaning that money out as well. Of course, all these profits come from the fine folks at the bottom. If you drew a graph for this, it would look like a pyramid...
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
Y'all missed that point... I was merely pointing out that in this economy, when you have people losing their houses to foreclosures, cities going under, and a "world financial crisis", you have the companies who act as the middle man in this scenario profiting to the tune of a billion dollars per month each...
The middle man here of course are the banks which borrow from the central bank and then lend that out to people/businesses. So the central bank turns a profit from the interest that they charge, and the "middle man" banks turn profits from loaning that money out as well. Of course, all these profits come from the fine folks at the bottom. If you drew a graph for this, it would look like a pyramid...
How do you think banks work? Banks have worked this way since their inception. Like some of have been talking about, once interest rates start to climb, lending will slow, people will start saving more and those profits you are complaining about will start to slow, hurting the banks that have looser loan procedures.
Lol, and they say pyramid schemes are illegal.... Guess it depends on which pyramid...
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
Y'all missed that point... I was merely pointing out that in this economy, when you have people losing their houses to foreclosures, cities going under, and a "world financial crisis", you have the companies who act as the middle man in this scenario profiting to the tune of a billion dollars per month each...
The middle man here of course are the banks which borrow from the central bank and then lend that out to people/businesses. So the central bank turns a profit from the interest that they charge, and the "middle man" banks turn profits from loaning that money out as well. Of course, all these profits come from the fine folks at the bottom. If you drew a graph for this, it would look like a pyramid...
Some people are making money while others aren't. The horror.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Some people are making money while others aren't. The horror.
Its slavery lol
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
Some people are making money while others aren't. The horror.
Its slavery lol
If companies making money off of the work of people less wealthy than them is slavery, then the majority of the world still practices slavery. The real problem is federal incompetence.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Some people are making money while others aren't. The horror.
Its slavery lol
It's not slavery, it's banks playing both the investment and the banking game. It's not good for reasons you haven't pointed out - it exposes the banks themselves to liabilities that can destroy them if there's a market fluctuation, and the place where people store all their money throws around ungodly amounts of liquidity, oversaturating financial markets with cash and creating market distortions.
The banks are actually skating on thin ice right now because the Fed has kept them on life support for almost 5 years. So while they appear to be reaping insane profits, it is solely because of the printing presses and ZIRP.
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
Except that the Fed isn't going to just stop QE like all at once. They're going to slowly reduce the amount that they're buying month by month, and if it looks like there will be significant backlash because of a given reduction (or there is backlash from a given reduction), they'll stop.
They're not stupid.
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"I wasn't sleeping. I'm a beta-tester for Google Eyelids...I was just taking the opportunity to update my Facebook page." -- Morgan Freeman, accused of napping during a TV interview.
Except that the Fed isn't going to just stop QE like all at once. They're going to slowly reduce the amount that they're buying month by month, and if it looks like there will be significant backlash because of a given reduction (or there is backlash from a given reduction), they'll stop.
They're not stupid.
Back in June, the Fed talked about tapering QE. The markets went into a frenzied panic after hearing the Fed talked about tapering. Stocks dropped, treasury yields rose, and bonds lost quite a bit of value. All this was from the Fed simply talking about tapering. What's going to happen to the markets if the Fed does actually slow down QE?
The fact of the matter is, the economy is completely addicted to all this cheap money coming from the Fed. There is no way the Fed can stop, let alone slow down QE without collapsing the economy.
If companies making money off of the work of people less wealthy than them is slavery, then the majority of the world still practices slavery.
Definitely.
Quote from Jimbo »
It's not slavery, it's banks playing both the investment and the banking game. It's not good for reasons you haven't pointed out - it exposes the banks themselves to liabilities that can destroy them if there's a market fluctuation, and the place where people store all their money throws around ungodly amounts of liquidity, oversaturating financial markets with cash and creating market distortions.
Does this actually make sense to anyboday? I read it several times and cannot understand a point or if there even is a point.
Its slavery by distraction.
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
The same thing? In modern day society it's very important to keep in mind that where there is smoke, there does not have to be a fire. And very often there will be a few sparks here and there at best.
Whenever there is talk about change, people will panic. This is no proper indication whatsoever of what will actually happen after the change is implemented. I'd be much more worried if they didn't mind at all.
Such a change would be quite extreme compared to what's been going on for the past 4-5 years. Interest rates have been at 0% for almost five years. The Fed has undergone four different rounds of QE, and that's not even taking into consideration other things like Operation Twist. The markets won't be able to endure the Fed taking the easy money away, even in small amounts. I actually think the Fed will have to up the dose of QE rather than having to taper.
Why can't they be weaned off? What's making this so black and white?
Because if the Fed slows or stops QE, interest rates will skyrocket upward. This will cause three critical things to happen:
- The banks will suffer severe losses on their balance sheets, which means all the banks would fail again.
- Sovereign debt becomes extremely expensive to service due to the increased interest rates. Look at Japan. Roughly 25% of their federal budget goes to interest payments on sovereign debt, and that's with Japanese government bonds having ultra-low yields. Heavily indebted countries can't afford interest rates to go up because it would cause interest payments to consume the vast majority, if not the entirety, of their revenue.
- The bond market itself will lose an immense amount of value when interest rates go up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete collapse of the bond market. Bonds are the next bubble just waiting to burst.
Slavery, bondage, servitude refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.
No one that works is involuntary subject to someone else. They have the freedome to go somewhere else or do something else or create their own business.
that is not slavery.
Does this actually make sense to anyboday? I read it several times and cannot understand a point or if there even is a point.
Its slavery by distraction.
Yes it does make sense.
The reason that investment banks and saving banks were to keep separate is that any bad investments made by the bank could affect their holdings.
In fact it could cause the bank to default and people that have their money in there could lose it. Most banks are FDIC insured but that only covers up to a certain amount of money 250k is the max you can get back.
Basically the bank puts peoples savings at risk for risky investment deals when the two are allowed to be combined.
i think you need to read the definition of slavery again. if you are fiscally responsible then debt is not a bad thing. it is when you let it get out of control (people with 60k in credit card debt) that gets you in trouble.
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Slavery, bondage, servitude refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.
Yes, I suppose I am free to just quit my job on a whim because I dislike what I'm told to do, but how about all the costs associated with basic living? Rent, food, etc. Those don't just pay themselves. And yes, I am free to stop paying for rent/mortgage/property taxes, at which point my place of living is then taken from me and I am homeless. At which point I will be targeted and involuntarily subjected to imprisonment for being homeless (every place I have ever lived has criminalized homelessness). I am free to stop buying food, at which point I will starve or commit crime to survive. I suppose I could always depend on the charity of others, although asking for such charity is subjectively illegal too. Yes, I can go stay in a homeless shelter (which, by the way, you are subjecting yourself to their rules/policies etc.), though these places are modeled after jails or prisons.
So yes, ultimately we are free. Free to choose to be ****ing slaves anyway.
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
Who forces people to get 50k in credit card debt? no one.
You choose to do that on your own.
no one forces you into debt it is a choice that you take.
I have gotten most of my debt under control.
I only have 3 major debts left. a CC, student loans and the mortgage on my home.
i hope you know what you mean by the company store. those really do not exist anymore.
Yes, I suppose I am free to just quit my job on a whim because I dislike what I'm told to do, but how about all the costs associated with basic living?
as i said you can find a job elsewhere for a different person or company. you can try and start your own business then you can run it however you want to. You have choices.
you are not forced to work for 1 person. i have worked for several different companies and done side work as well.
So yes, ultimately we are free. Free to choose to be ****ing slaves anyway.
please read above how wrong you are.
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Who forces people to get 50k in credit card debt? no one.
You choose to do that on your own.
I guess that's the question then. If you signed a contract agreeing to be a in Debt bondage or a slave or whatnot, would you than not count it as "slavery?"
Do you, mystery45, see anything immoral about allowing someone to willing sign over their life to another human being? You know, as long as there's a contact both parties agree too.
(But, I also agree Ed. is being the other kind of extreme, since "true freedom" doesn't exist either. We all need to work for our bread, that's the human condition.)
Who forces people to get 50k in credit card debt? no one.
You choose to do that on your own.
no one forces you into debt it is a choice that you take.
I have gotten most of my debt under control.
I only have 3 major debts left. a CC, student loans and the mortgage on my home.
Right. Because only having one choice is really freedom.
It all leads back to the money. Our system dictates that to do anything, you have to pay money. Even after you supposedly "own" it. You own a home? Property tax every year... Own a car? Have to have insurance... and a license, and registration... Own a business? How many fees and costs must you pay to keep that legal?
Know that expression, "Time is money"? Its definitely getting there... How many things now are monthly costs, annual costs, etc.? How do we get paid? By the hour generally...
@Taylor: why can't true freedom exist? Do you really think that this is just the way its supposed to be?
Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
@Taylor: why can't true freedom exist? Do you really think that this is just the way its supposed to be?
Well, true freedom doesn't exist because nothing can do everything. We're all 'prisoners' of something, and most people can't even "see the bars" that's imprisoning them. For example, what if you wanted to live somewhere else besides on Earth? Earth is one of many prisons that we're stuck in, and most people don't even realize it.
But, yes, I do think that people should have to work for their bread. However, I don't think people should be enslaved by debt in the process, even if lack of imagination on their part was the main cause of the enslavement.
There is a balance that needs to be struck between freedom and enslavement, extremes on either side are unfeasible.
But, yes, I do think that people should have to work for their bread. However, I don't think people should be enslaved by debt in the process, even if lack of imagination on their part was the main cause of the enslavement.
There is a balance that needs to be struck between freedom and enslavement, extremes on either side are unfeasible.
I agree. Our current situation is too out of balance for me to agree with anything that is just more debt enslavement though. I guess since I'm at the enslaved end of the equation, I am less willing to agree to further shackling.
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Quote from Garland Greene aka the Marietta Mangler »
"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
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Interesting... We get collectively shafted in the economic "recovery" and now our "TBTF" banks are raking in profit hand over fist to the tune of a billion per month or better.
It isn't so much that "they" (you know, the they or them of conspiracy theory lore that never get identified lol) are out to get us, but our collective ignorance that will be our downfall. Everything I've read recently pertaining to our economic situation says something to the effect that we're not out of the woods yet... Guess our banks didn't get that memo....
Watch what happens when interest rates inevitably go up (which they're starting to do right now) and the Fed has to stop QE. All of the banks will instantly fail again when that happens.
Now this, this is a testable hypothesis. To pass muster, all banks must instantly fail when QE is stopped and interest rates are raised at all.
I am willing to bet banks have a little leeway before it becomes troublesome. But I agree it should happen to all after a while.
I don't think they will all fail, but what you will see is when the government stops buying up this toxic debt they created lenders will slow down on their lending.
interest rates are rising which means you are going to see less people borrowing. which is a good thing. we need to start paying off debt not being able to get more of it. raising interest rates if the first way to do it.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Personally what I think will happen is the banks will consolidate. We will see less banks to deal with. I live in a rural area with less then 4000 people and we have 5 banks all with in a mile of each other. If the rates go up, all those banks will not be able to survive. So they will start buying each other out and we should end up with 1 or 2 banks in the same area.
Its kind of bad for the economy. We dont need more people out of work. But we have to bite the bullet sooner or later if we are going to fix the mess we are in.
The middle man here of course are the banks which borrow from the central bank and then lend that out to people/businesses. So the central bank turns a profit from the interest that they charge, and the "middle man" banks turn profits from loaning that money out as well. Of course, all these profits come from the fine folks at the bottom. If you drew a graph for this, it would look like a pyramid...
How do you think banks work? Banks have worked this way since their inception. Like some of have been talking about, once interest rates start to climb, lending will slow, people will start saving more and those profits you are complaining about will start to slow, hurting the banks that have looser loan procedures.
Some people are making money while others aren't. The horror.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
Its slavery lol
If companies making money off of the work of people less wealthy than them is slavery, then the majority of the world still practices slavery. The real problem is federal incompetence.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
It's not slavery, it's banks playing both the investment and the banking game. It's not good for reasons you haven't pointed out - it exposes the banks themselves to liabilities that can destroy them if there's a market fluctuation, and the place where people store all their money throws around ungodly amounts of liquidity, oversaturating financial markets with cash and creating market distortions.
Except that the Fed isn't going to just stop QE like all at once. They're going to slowly reduce the amount that they're buying month by month, and if it looks like there will be significant backlash because of a given reduction (or there is backlash from a given reduction), they'll stop.
They're not stupid.
Wit and wisdom from my four-year-old son. Recommended for anyone who enjoys a good belly laugh.
Back in June, the Fed talked about tapering QE. The markets went into a frenzied panic after hearing the Fed talked about tapering. Stocks dropped, treasury yields rose, and bonds lost quite a bit of value. All this was from the Fed simply talking about tapering. What's going to happen to the markets if the Fed does actually slow down QE?
The fact of the matter is, the economy is completely addicted to all this cheap money coming from the Fed. There is no way the Fed can stop, let alone slow down QE without collapsing the economy.
Definitely.
Does this actually make sense to anyboday? I read it several times and cannot understand a point or if there even is a point.
Its slavery by distraction.
Such a change would be quite extreme compared to what's been going on for the past 4-5 years. Interest rates have been at 0% for almost five years. The Fed has undergone four different rounds of QE, and that's not even taking into consideration other things like Operation Twist. The markets won't be able to endure the Fed taking the easy money away, even in small amounts. I actually think the Fed will have to up the dose of QE rather than having to taper.
Because if the Fed slows or stops QE, interest rates will skyrocket upward. This will cause three critical things to happen:
- The banks will suffer severe losses on their balance sheets, which means all the banks would fail again.
- Sovereign debt becomes extremely expensive to service due to the increased interest rates. Look at Japan. Roughly 25% of their federal budget goes to interest payments on sovereign debt, and that's with Japanese government bonds having ultra-low yields. Heavily indebted countries can't afford interest rates to go up because it would cause interest payments to consume the vast majority, if not the entirety, of their revenue.
- The bond market itself will lose an immense amount of value when interest rates go up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete collapse of the bond market. Bonds are the next bubble just waiting to burst.
definition of slavery
Slavery, bondage, servitude refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.
No one that works is involuntary subject to someone else. They have the freedome to go somewhere else or do something else or create their own business.
that is not slavery.
Yes it does make sense.
The reason that investment banks and saving banks were to keep separate is that any bad investments made by the bank could affect their holdings.
In fact it could cause the bank to default and people that have their money in there could lose it. Most banks are FDIC insured but that only covers up to a certain amount of money 250k is the max you can get back.
Basically the bank puts peoples savings at risk for risky investment deals when the two are allowed to be combined.
i think you need to read the definition of slavery again. if you are fiscally responsible then debt is not a bad thing. it is when you let it get out of control (people with 60k in credit card debt) that gets you in trouble.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store
Yes, I suppose I am free to just quit my job on a whim because I dislike what I'm told to do, but how about all the costs associated with basic living? Rent, food, etc. Those don't just pay themselves. And yes, I am free to stop paying for rent/mortgage/property taxes, at which point my place of living is then taken from me and I am homeless. At which point I will be targeted and involuntarily subjected to imprisonment for being homeless (every place I have ever lived has criminalized homelessness). I am free to stop buying food, at which point I will starve or commit crime to survive. I suppose I could always depend on the charity of others, although asking for such charity is subjectively illegal too. Yes, I can go stay in a homeless shelter (which, by the way, you are subjecting yourself to their rules/policies etc.), though these places are modeled after jails or prisons.
So yes, ultimately we are free. Free to choose to be ****ing slaves anyway.
Who forces people to get 50k in credit card debt? no one.
You choose to do that on your own.
no one forces you into debt it is a choice that you take.
I have gotten most of my debt under control.
I only have 3 major debts left. a CC, student loans and the mortgage on my home.
i hope you know what you mean by the company store. those really do not exist anymore.
as i said you can find a job elsewhere for a different person or company. you can try and start your own business then you can run it however you want to. You have choices.
you are not forced to work for 1 person. i have worked for several different companies and done side work as well.
please read above how wrong you are.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Do you, mystery45, see anything immoral about allowing someone to willing sign over their life to another human being? You know, as long as there's a contact both parties agree too.
(But, I also agree Ed. is being the other kind of extreme, since "true freedom" doesn't exist either. We all need to work for our bread, that's the human condition.)
Right. Because only having one choice is really freedom.
It all leads back to the money. Our system dictates that to do anything, you have to pay money. Even after you supposedly "own" it. You own a home? Property tax every year... Own a car? Have to have insurance... and a license, and registration... Own a business? How many fees and costs must you pay to keep that legal?
Know that expression, "Time is money"? Its definitely getting there... How many things now are monthly costs, annual costs, etc.? How do we get paid? By the hour generally...
@Taylor: why can't true freedom exist? Do you really think that this is just the way its supposed to be?
Well, true freedom doesn't exist because nothing can do everything. We're all 'prisoners' of something, and most people can't even "see the bars" that's imprisoning them. For example, what if you wanted to live somewhere else besides on Earth? Earth is one of many prisons that we're stuck in, and most people don't even realize it.
But, yes, I do think that people should have to work for their bread. However, I don't think people should be enslaved by debt in the process, even if lack of imagination on their part was the main cause of the enslavement.
There is a balance that needs to be struck between freedom and enslavement, extremes on either side are unfeasible.
I agree. Our current situation is too out of balance for me to agree with anything that is just more debt enslavement though. I guess since I'm at the enslaved end of the equation, I am less willing to agree to further shackling.