Halloween is like the big exception that proves the rule. It's a day about transgressing social norms. Guys dress up like girls on Halloween because it is a major taboo.
But why is it a major taboo? Is it really because people think being womanly is bad? Is it some sort of social commentary on how being a woman is less desirable than being a man?
If two guys make a bet and the loser has to dress up as a woman, that is a sexist statement where if the loser has to dress up like a clown it's just guys making a dumb bet?
I dont buy it. I think Tuss is just wanting to be offended.
I'm not Tuss and while I think Tuss goes a lot further than I do a lot of the time, I still don't think it's ok.
A bet where the loser dresses up as a clown is much different than one where the loser dresses up like a woman. And yes, it's a sexist statement.
It doesn't matter if they intended to denigrate women - odds are they didn't intend to, they probably didn't think it through at all, actually. The message - being feminine is bad - comes through whether they intended it or not. As so many people have said, one of the principle advantages of having power is that you don't have to think about whether you have power.
One piece of evidence, by the way -> reverse the genders and this isn't true anymore. You couldn't force a girl to dress up as a boy as a punishment because it wouldn't come across as a punishment. Girls don't dress up as boys for Halloween. When they do dress up as boys, it isn't seen as denigrating, whether it's Halloween or not. When people do take exception to it, it's because they're being 'unladylike' - which essentially means 'not passive/submissive enough'.
I don't think this is as controversial as you're making it out to be, by the way. Those parents could avoid the controversy by, say, making their children dress up as clowns as a shaming tactic instead of dressing them up as girls. They won't do that because it wouldn't be effective; they intend to send the message that doing what they're doing is acting like a girl, which is shameful. They aren't just looking for a general punishment.
Who looks at a woman in a nice dress and has negative thoughts?
Not most men! She's probably a very desirable sex object.
Is that really sexist? There is no possible other explanation for why girl's can wear blue jeans and guys can't wear a dress without society finding it to be a bit funny?
I suppose it isnt possible that the reason girls started wearing men's clothes was because jeans were more functional for certain activities that woman wanted to do... And dresses just dont have the same draw for men because functionally there isnt anything about a dress that draws the majority of men to want to wear them?
Look at jewelry. In western culture ear rings were not really a man thing for a long time. Now seeing a dude with ear rings is no big deal. Coloring hair, and in many cases makeup has also jumped the gender barrier. Maybe traditional women's clothing just isnt desirable to men for reasons outside of social commentary about women being inferior. Or is that impossible?
There is no possible other explanation for why girl's can wear blue jeans and guys can't wear a dress without society finding it to be a bit funny?
Are there other possible explanations? Yes. Are those possible explanations pervasive and/or nearly as influential in this regard as our attitudes toward gender and gender roles? Absolutely not.
That femininity is degrading to masculinity and outward expressions of femininity in men is seen as a negative, weakening thing isn't a revolutionary concept. I'm not even shocked that people don't often recognize it since it's long been accepted as a social norm and most people don't even think about it. I mean, you know something is old hat when Madonna's written a song about it in the last decade.
Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
I suppose it isnt possible that the reason girls started wearing men's clothes was because jeans were more functional for certain activities that woman wanted to do... And dresses just dont have the same draw for men because functionally there isnt anything about a dress that draws the majority of men to want to wear them?
If you asked men why they don't wear dresses, I don't believe "it's not practical for the activities I like to do" will likely be a top reason. Odds are, the overwhelming response will be "because dresses are girls' clothes and I'm a guy and I'm not comfortable dressing like a girl" or a variation thereof.
Look at jewelry. In western culture ear rings were not really a man thing for a long time. Now seeing a dude with ear rings is no big deal. Coloring hair, and in many cases makeup has also jumped the gender barrier.
I think you're being ridiculous if you think this is actually true. A man cannot wear earrings in the same style as a woman and have it be no big deal. And the same with makeup. Even a lesser behavior like the 'metrosexual' phenomenon is still largely a target for ridicule.
I don't think it's about men = good, women = bad at all. Both the coach example and the actual story we're discussing seem to be more about rigid gender rules.
So instead of being anti woman, it's anti anyone who doesn't fit into neatly prescribed gender roles.
There is no possible other explanation for why girl's can wear blue jeans and guys can't wear a dress without society finding it to be a bit funny?
Are there other possible explanations? Yes. Are those possible explanations pervasive and/or nearly as influential in this regard as our attitudes toward gender and gender roles? Absolutely not.
That femininity is degrading to masculinity and outward expressions of femininity in men is seen as a negative, weakening thing isn't a revolutionary concept. I'm not even shocked that people don't often recognize it since it's long been accepted as a social norm and most people don't even think about it. I mean, you know something is old hat when Madonna's written a song about it in the last decade.
Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
I suppose it isnt possible that the reason girls started wearing men's clothes was because jeans were more functional for certain activities that woman wanted to do... And dresses just dont have the same draw for men because functionally there isnt anything about a dress that draws the majority of men to want to wear them?
If you asked men why they don't wear dresses, I don't believe "it's not practical for the activities I like to do" will likely be a top reason. Odds are, the overwhelming response will be "because dresses are girls' clothes and I'm a guy and I'm not comfortable dressing like a girl" or a variation thereof.
Look at jewelry. In western culture ear rings were not really a man thing for a long time. Now seeing a dude with ear rings is no big deal. Coloring hair, and in many cases makeup has also jumped the gender barrier.
I think you're being ridiculous if you think this is actually true. A man cannot wear earrings in the same style as a woman and have it be no big deal. And the same with makeup. Even a lesser behavior like the 'metrosexual' phenomenon is still largely a target for ridicule.
And if a girl walks around town in baggy jeans and a flannel shirt most people will think she's a butch lesbian.... Just because more "men's" clothes have become unisex doesnt mean there is some deeper meaning imbalance. I think you are just plain wrong.
Here is a question... I am an NFL Packer fan... I would not wear Vikings gear. Does that mean I dont respect the Vikings as a football team? no... It means that I am a fan of a different team. I wouldnt wear the gear from any other team but that doesnt mean I dont find them to be entertaining to watch. Would I want someone to think I am a Vikings fan? No... not because I think poorly of Vikings fans but because thinking of me as a Vikings fan is incorrect because I am not one.
I am a guy... I dont wear a dress because I am not a woman. Not because I think poorly of women but because I dont want to be seen as a woman... because I am not a woman.
There is no possible other explanation for why girl's can wear blue jeans and guys can't wear a dress without society finding it to be a bit funny?
Are there other possible explanations? Yes. Are those possible explanations pervasive and/or nearly as influential in this regard as our attitudes toward gender and gender roles? Absolutely not.
That femininity is degrading to masculinity and outward expressions of femininity in men is seen as a negative, weakening thing isn't a revolutionary concept. I'm not even shocked that people don't often recognize it since it's long been accepted as a social norm and most people don't even think about it. I mean, you know something is old hat when Madonna's written a song about it in the last decade.
Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
I suppose it isnt possible that the reason girls started wearing men's clothes was because jeans were more functional for certain activities that woman wanted to do... And dresses just dont have the same draw for men because functionally there isnt anything about a dress that draws the majority of men to want to wear them?
If you asked men why they don't wear dresses, I don't believe "it's not practical for the activities I like to do" will likely be a top reason. Odds are, the overwhelming response will be "because dresses are girls' clothes and I'm a guy and I'm not comfortable dressing like a girl" or a variation thereof.
Look at jewelry. In western culture ear rings were not really a man thing for a long time. Now seeing a dude with ear rings is no big deal. Coloring hair, and in many cases makeup has also jumped the gender barrier.
I think you're being ridiculous if you think this is actually true. A man cannot wear earrings in the same style as a woman and have it be no big deal. And the same with makeup. Even a lesser behavior like the 'metrosexual' phenomenon is still largely a target for ridicule.
I guess it all depends. Like, if you're an Indian, everyone expects you to have long hair. And earrings. But there are styles. Oddly, the typical plains Indian styles of braids is among the less popular hairstyles, while the modern choice of earrings is more studs and less the more traditional hoops or dangling chains.
The "metrosexual" concept was stupid anyway. The word was a forced meme and on the 2004 LSSU banned words list on the grounds that "Aren't there enough words for men who spend too much time in front of a mirror?", IIRC. (Last year's list included "spoiler alert" and "trending".) Even the word implies that an interest in one's personal appearance indicates homosexuality. Nobody self-identified as a metrosexual.
(For the record, "dandy", "fop", and "beau" all come to mind as words for men who spend way too much time in front of a mirror.)
Of course, what qualifies as masculine or feminine is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Americans think of narrow eye orbits and long legs as feminine, though they are really masculine traits, if we look at comparative anatomy.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
That's correct.
I'm not Tuss and while I think Tuss goes a lot further than I do a lot of the time, I still don't think it's ok.
A bet where the loser dresses up as a clown is much different than one where the loser dresses up like a woman. And yes, it's a sexist statement.
It doesn't matter if they intended to denigrate women - odds are they didn't intend to, they probably didn't think it through at all, actually. The message - being feminine is bad - comes through whether they intended it or not. As so many people have said, one of the principle advantages of having power is that you don't have to think about whether you have power.
One piece of evidence, by the way -> reverse the genders and this isn't true anymore. You couldn't force a girl to dress up as a boy as a punishment because it wouldn't come across as a punishment. Girls don't dress up as boys for Halloween. When they do dress up as boys, it isn't seen as denigrating, whether it's Halloween or not. When people do take exception to it, it's because they're being 'unladylike' - which essentially means 'not passive/submissive enough'.
I don't think this is as controversial as you're making it out to be, by the way. Those parents could avoid the controversy by, say, making their children dress up as clowns as a shaming tactic instead of dressing them up as girls. They won't do that because it wouldn't be effective; they intend to send the message that doing what they're doing is acting like a girl, which is shameful. They aren't just looking for a general punishment.
Not most men! She's probably a very desirable sex object.
I suppose it isnt possible that the reason girls started wearing men's clothes was because jeans were more functional for certain activities that woman wanted to do... And dresses just dont have the same draw for men because functionally there isnt anything about a dress that draws the majority of men to want to wear them?
Look at jewelry. In western culture ear rings were not really a man thing for a long time. Now seeing a dude with ear rings is no big deal. Coloring hair, and in many cases makeup has also jumped the gender barrier. Maybe traditional women's clothing just isnt desirable to men for reasons outside of social commentary about women being inferior. Or is that impossible?
Yes.
Are there other possible explanations? Yes. Are those possible explanations pervasive and/or nearly as influential in this regard as our attitudes toward gender and gender roles? Absolutely not.
That femininity is degrading to masculinity and outward expressions of femininity in men is seen as a negative, weakening thing isn't a revolutionary concept. I'm not even shocked that people don't often recognize it since it's long been accepted as a social norm and most people don't even think about it. I mean, you know something is old hat when Madonna's written a song about it in the last decade.
If you asked men why they don't wear dresses, I don't believe "it's not practical for the activities I like to do" will likely be a top reason. Odds are, the overwhelming response will be "because dresses are girls' clothes and I'm a guy and I'm not comfortable dressing like a girl" or a variation thereof.
I think you're being ridiculous if you think this is actually true. A man cannot wear earrings in the same style as a woman and have it be no big deal. And the same with makeup. Even a lesser behavior like the 'metrosexual' phenomenon is still largely a target for ridicule.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
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Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
That's not much (really any) better.
And if a girl walks around town in baggy jeans and a flannel shirt most people will think she's a butch lesbian.... Just because more "men's" clothes have become unisex doesnt mean there is some deeper meaning imbalance. I think you are just plain wrong.
Here is a question... I am an NFL Packer fan... I would not wear Vikings gear. Does that mean I dont respect the Vikings as a football team? no... It means that I am a fan of a different team. I wouldnt wear the gear from any other team but that doesnt mean I dont find them to be entertaining to watch. Would I want someone to think I am a Vikings fan? No... not because I think poorly of Vikings fans but because thinking of me as a Vikings fan is incorrect because I am not one.
I am a guy... I dont wear a dress because I am not a woman. Not because I think poorly of women but because I dont want to be seen as a woman... because I am not a woman.
I guess it all depends. Like, if you're an Indian, everyone expects you to have long hair. And earrings. But there are styles. Oddly, the typical plains Indian styles of braids is among the less popular hairstyles, while the modern choice of earrings is more studs and less the more traditional hoops or dangling chains.
The "metrosexual" concept was stupid anyway. The word was a forced meme and on the 2004 LSSU banned words list on the grounds that "Aren't there enough words for men who spend too much time in front of a mirror?", IIRC. (Last year's list included "spoiler alert" and "trending".) Even the word implies that an interest in one's personal appearance indicates homosexuality. Nobody self-identified as a metrosexual.
(For the record, "dandy", "fop", and "beau" all come to mind as words for men who spend way too much time in front of a mirror.)
Of course, what qualifies as masculine or feminine is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Americans think of narrow eye orbits and long legs as feminine, though they are really masculine traits, if we look at comparative anatomy.
On phasing: