Is it so impossible to believe that she has an equivalent in the nfl?
I'm pretty positive this years hires weren't racially motivated. There weren't a whole lot of great black candidates. Lovie was really the only one, and I'm not sure he wanted any of those jobs. I didn't see much about him being interviewed and I'd guess that was due to his lack of interest. Like I said, had Dungy or Tomlin been available, they'd have had their pick of any team outside of KC who seemed decided on Reid from day 1.
Impossible... no. But would the Rooney rule do anything for someone like that? Also I find it unlikely that a filthy rich KKK member would decide to buy a sports team in a sport dominated by African Americans.
It'll be interesting to see if in 20 years some of the African American quarter back we have now start going into the ranks of coaching and if there starts to be a shift towards more balance on offense and defense as far as how the racial numbers go.
Change the sport to cotton picking. Change the team to plantation. You still surprised?
Why would a plantation owner care if it was a person of a certain color picking the cotton? Wouldn't he only care that someone is picking his cotton. Why wouldn't performance be > race. I hear the better a team preforms the more popular it is and the more money it will make the team owner.
They have hired black coaches the problem in the NFL is performance whether you are black or white. if you don't make it and have a bad season you are gone in 1 or 2 years.
look at the coach from tampa bay. he was black and did an ok job but was fired after about 3 seasons. they did ok but doing ok gets you fired.
Cherry picking examples to support your bias. What about Romeo Crennel. He was an awful HC for most of his time in Cleveland and got to be the HC for KC this year.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
And to be fair, herm Edwards coached KC 3 years and they were pretty much all bad.
like i said the average is 2-3 years. the coach of the colts was fired last year after his abysmal 2-14 run. this year a number of coaches were fired in their first year for bad performances.
The lvl of performance has risen greatly in the NFL and it is even worse in college. that is why the NFL is recruiting college coaches because they are tired of passing around the same old guys time and time again.
the odds of getting a coaching job in the NFL is lower than actually playing as a player.
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Is it so impossible to believe that she has an equivalent in the nfl?
I'm pretty positive this years hires weren't racially motivated. There weren't a whole lot of great black candidates. Lovie was really the only one, and I'm not sure he wanted any of those jobs. I didn't see much about him being interviewed and I'd guess that was due to his lack of interest. Like I said, had Dungy or Tomlin been available, they'd have had their pick of any team outside of KC who seemed decided on Reid from day 1.
Impossible... no. But would the Rooney rule do anything for someone like that? Also I find it unlikely that a filthy rich KKK member would decide to buy a sports team in a sport dominated by African Americans.
It'll be interesting to see if in 20 years some of the African American quarter back we have now start going into the ranks of coaching and if there starts to be a shift towards more balance on offense and defense as far as how the racial numbers go.
Change the sport to cotton picking. Change the team to plantation. You still surprised?
Why would a plantation owner care if it was a person of a certain color picking the cotton? Wouldn't he only care that someone is picking his cotton. Why wouldn't performance be > race. I hear the better a team preforms the more popular it is and the more money it will make the team owner.
They have hired black coaches the problem in the NFL is performance whether you are black or white. if you don't make it and have a bad season you are gone in 1 or 2 years.
look at the coach from tampa bay. he was black and did an ok job but was fired after about 3 seasons. they did ok but doing ok gets you fired.
Cherry picking examples to support your bias. What about Romeo Crennel. He was an awful HC for most of his time in Cleveland and got to be the HC for KC this year.
You realise you're proving my point, not arguing against it, right?
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I am saying that the NFL isn't racist. the low number of black coaches is possible that there is just a low amount of black coaches.
become a coach in the NFL is harder than being a player. most have to work their way up from a high school lvl to a college and then if they have proven themselves in college they might get a shot.
the NFL now is recruiting more and more out of college. why? there is a limited pool of coaches. they keep passing failure after failure around.
this could break more openings for black college coaches.
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Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around. Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I'm not going to comment on the recent hirings, but I will say the Rooney rule was only put into place in 2003, and old habits die hard.
However, if Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy had been available, you can bet they'd have gotten the job over everyone except possibly Andy Reid this offseason.
Black coaches will be like black quarterbacks. We were "too stupid" to play that position for a long time.
I think you have to look back 20 years and see who was playing QB et in college. There were a lot less black players because there were less blacks in school period.
I think you'll see this trend change over the next 10 years but I don't think you'll see it proportional to the players.
I would be interested to see which player positions churn out the most coaches. Odds are QB is the highest.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
In a league where players are SO disproportionately black (blacks make up more than 50% of the league yet are 13% of the population) and no one really says much of anything about it, cries of racism against blacks due to a head coach breakdown seems... laughable at best.
Also where are the asian, white or non-white hispanics, middle easterners, etc. in this? I know the Jets had a WR coach of Indian descent recently, that was the first asian coach I have ever seen... certainly none at the head coach position.
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And to be fair, herm Edwards coached KC 3 years and they were pretty much all bad.
He was bad with the Jets before that also. But that's no surprise. I do like Herm as a person though, he's really funny and insightful.
The basic summary of the article is that there were no new African American head coaches hired, and there is only 1 African American offensive coordinator. Apparently this is outrageous to some people.
Could it be that their is just not many coaches of colour? Surely the NFL teams have the right to hire the people who they think is the best. Maybe they can have a scheme to improve the racial mix of the coaches. Maybe it is a job that just does not appeal to them.
I'm not going to comment on the recent hirings, but I will say the Rooney rule was only put into place in 2003, and old habits die hard.
However, if Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy had been available, you can bet they'd have gotten the job over everyone except possibly Andy Reid this offseason.
Black coaches will be like black quarterbacks. We were "too stupid" to play that position for a long time.
I think you have to look back 20 years and see who was playing QB et in college. There were a lot less black players because there were less blacks in school period.
I think you'll see this trend change over the next 10 years but I don't think you'll see it proportional to the players.
I would be interested to see which player positions churn out the most coaches. Odds are QB is the highest.
For ALL coaches? That would be interesting to see. I might go with linebacker, actually as they seem to coach everything whereas qb's tend to be hc, oc, and quarterbacks coach primarily.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I'm not going to comment on the recent hirings, but I will say the Rooney rule was only put into place in 2003, and old habits die hard.
However, if Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy had been available, you can bet they'd have gotten the job over everyone except possibly Andy Reid this offseason.
Black coaches will be like black quarterbacks. We were "too stupid" to play that position for a long time.
I pretty much agree with this quote, and would like to expand on it a bit.
The problem isn't overt racism right now. NFL owners just want to win and they'll hire the person they think gives them the best chance for that. The black coaches who have broken through so that people actually know who they are are probably not at a disadvantage compared to similarly well-known white coaches. Tony Dungy could walk into a job on a dozen teams tomorrow if he wanted to.
The problem is a networking problem. When you go further down the pipeline - away from the big names that everyone knows, to the up-and-comers, white coaches have a networking advantage. They're more likely to have the 'right' education and the right connections to break through from relatively unknown college assistant to coordinator somewhere. I don't think this is because of current racism, I think it's because people develop pipelines for talent that they're comfortable with and tend not to change those pipelines unless there's a very good reason to do so, and the pipelines that have grown through football come from a time when there was overt racism involved.
So, nobody is doing anything particularly wrong today, but unfortunately the natural tendency towards maintaining the status quo is perpetuating a system that disadvantages black coaches. There are black breakthroughs from time to time, and it seems likely that as more of those happen, those pipelines will clear up - that if we just wait another few decades, the problem will simply disappear. The question is whether action - like the Rooney Rule - should be taken to speed that process up.
If you think racism is dead or even close to it, not just in football but in the world at large, you are probably not a minority.
I agree. I mean you are forced to hire "minorities" forced to interview them for coaching jobs. If anything it is working against itself. I watched an espn show some years ago when blake griffen was drafted.(i think it was the same year) and they were talking about him being the "great white hope" even though he is by racial. believe it or not the minorities and really not such these days. sure only x amount of our population is black, and y hispanic, and z asian. x+y+z > w
People say there is racism when comparing "dual-threat" quarterbacks because these tend to be black. Why do we compare cam newton to mike vic or other black quarterbacks? Because we don't have another comparison. Historically mobile Qbs have been black it is a simple fact. People are meshing racism with facts. If something is true it doesn't make racism IMO.
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"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
I'm not going to comment on the recent hirings, but I will say the Rooney rule was only put into place in 2003, and old habits die hard.
However, if Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy had been available, you can bet they'd have gotten the job over everyone except possibly Andy Reid this offseason.
Black coaches will be like black quarterbacks. We were "too stupid" to play that position for a long time.
I pretty much agree with this quote, and would like to expand on it a bit.
The problem isn't overt racism right now. NFL owners just want to win and they'll hire the person they think gives them the best chance for that. The black coaches who have broken through so that people actually know who they are are probably not at a disadvantage compared to similarly well-known white coaches. Tony Dungy could walk into a job on a dozen teams tomorrow if he wanted to.
The problem is a networking problem. When you go further down the pipeline - away from the big names that everyone knows, to the up-and-comers, white coaches have a networking advantage. They're more likely to have the 'right' education and the right connections to break through from relatively unknown college assistant to coordinator somewhere. I don't think this is because of current racism, I think it's because people develop pipelines for talent that they're comfortable with and tend not to change those pipelines unless there's a very good reason to do so, and the pipelines that have grown through football come from a time when there was overt racism involved.
So, nobody is doing anything particularly wrong today, but unfortunately the natural tendency towards maintaining the status quo is perpetuating a system that disadvantages black coaches. There are black breakthroughs from time to time, and it seems likely that as more of those happen, those pipelines will clear up - that if we just wait another few decades, the problem will simply disappear. The question is whether action - like the Rooney Rule - should be taken to speed that process up.
This reminded me of an interesting point I saw somewhere. Someone brought up the idea (it might have been Rooney himself) that the NFL should force the hiring windows for coaching staff that a head coach brings in, to be longer. As it stands right now a lot of head coaches are hired and within a week or 2 they have already filled all of their coordinator and major position coaching positions. This leads to an importance on who you know instead of what you are able to do. Couple that with this years trend to hire offensive minded coaches with the offense tending to be dominated by white coaches and you end up in a situation where it is hard for an African American to break into the NFL ranks of coaching especially on offense. Not because of racism, but because they just arnt as well known by the guys who are getting head coaching gigs. If there was a time limit where head coaches had to wait X number of days before hiring different positions then it could lead to a more thorough interviewing and hiring process for position coaches and coordinators. Which would have a trickle up effect and wouldnt even need special rules for minorities.
If you think racism is dead or even close to it, not just in football but in the world at large, you are probably not a minority.
I agree. I mean you are forced to hire "minorities" forced to interview them for coaching jobs. If anything it is working against itself. I watched an espn show some years ago when blake griffen was drafted.(i think it was the same year) and they were talking about him being the "great white hope" even though he is by racial. believe it or not the minorities and really not such these days. sure only x amount of our population is black, and y hispanic, and z asian. x+y+z > w
People say there is racism when comparing "dual-threat" quarterbacks because these tend to be black. Why do we compare cam newton to mike vic or other black quarterbacks? Because we don't have another comparison. Historically mobile Qbs have been black it is a simple fact. People are meshing racism with facts. If something is true it doesn't make racism IMO.
The quarterback comparison thing bugs me too. You can't really compare Tom Brady's toolset with Cam Newton's. They bring vastly different things to the table. In all honesty, the last very mobile quarterback who was white that comes to mind for me is Steve Young. I'm sure there are others I am forgetting, but he's the first that I immediately think of, whereas with black quarterbacks it's almost all of them.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
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Why would a plantation owner care if it was a person of a certain color picking the cotton? Wouldn't he only care that someone is picking his cotton. Why wouldn't performance be > race. I hear the better a team preforms the more popular it is and the more money it will make the team owner.
Cherry picking examples to support your bias. What about Romeo Crennel. He was an awful HC for most of his time in Cleveland and got to be the HC for KC this year.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
like i said the average is 2-3 years. the coach of the colts was fired last year after his abysmal 2-14 run. this year a number of coaches were fired in their first year for bad performances.
The lvl of performance has risen greatly in the NFL and it is even worse in college. that is why the NFL is recruiting college coaches because they are tired of passing around the same old guys time and time again.
the odds of getting a coaching job in the NFL is lower than actually playing as a player.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
You realise you're proving my point, not arguing against it, right?
become a coach in the NFL is harder than being a player. most have to work their way up from a high school lvl to a college and then if they have proven themselves in college they might get a shot.
the NFL now is recruiting more and more out of college. why? there is a limited pool of coaches. they keep passing failure after failure around.
this could break more openings for black college coaches.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Yes, i was agreeing with your point and trying to expand on it.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Fair enough. Egg on my face, and foot in my mouth.
I think you have to look back 20 years and see who was playing QB et in college. There were a lot less black players because there were less blacks in school period.
I think you'll see this trend change over the next 10 years but I don't think you'll see it proportional to the players.
I would be interested to see which player positions churn out the most coaches. Odds are QB is the highest.
Also where are the asian, white or non-white hispanics, middle easterners, etc. in this? I know the Jets had a WR coach of Indian descent recently, that was the first asian coach I have ever seen... certainly none at the head coach position.
He was bad with the Jets before that also. But that's no surprise. I do like Herm as a person though, he's really funny and insightful.
Could it be that their is just not many coaches of colour? Surely the NFL teams have the right to hire the people who they think is the best. Maybe they can have a scheme to improve the racial mix of the coaches. Maybe it is a job that just does not appeal to them.
For ALL coaches? That would be interesting to see. I might go with linebacker, actually as they seem to coach everything whereas qb's tend to be hc, oc, and quarterbacks coach primarily.
I pretty much agree with this quote, and would like to expand on it a bit.
The problem isn't overt racism right now. NFL owners just want to win and they'll hire the person they think gives them the best chance for that. The black coaches who have broken through so that people actually know who they are are probably not at a disadvantage compared to similarly well-known white coaches. Tony Dungy could walk into a job on a dozen teams tomorrow if he wanted to.
The problem is a networking problem. When you go further down the pipeline - away from the big names that everyone knows, to the up-and-comers, white coaches have a networking advantage. They're more likely to have the 'right' education and the right connections to break through from relatively unknown college assistant to coordinator somewhere. I don't think this is because of current racism, I think it's because people develop pipelines for talent that they're comfortable with and tend not to change those pipelines unless there's a very good reason to do so, and the pipelines that have grown through football come from a time when there was overt racism involved.
So, nobody is doing anything particularly wrong today, but unfortunately the natural tendency towards maintaining the status quo is perpetuating a system that disadvantages black coaches. There are black breakthroughs from time to time, and it seems likely that as more of those happen, those pipelines will clear up - that if we just wait another few decades, the problem will simply disappear. The question is whether action - like the Rooney Rule - should be taken to speed that process up.
I agree. I mean you are forced to hire "minorities" forced to interview them for coaching jobs. If anything it is working against itself. I watched an espn show some years ago when blake griffen was drafted.(i think it was the same year) and they were talking about him being the "great white hope" even though he is by racial. believe it or not the minorities and really not such these days. sure only x amount of our population is black, and y hispanic, and z asian. x+y+z > w
People say there is racism when comparing "dual-threat" quarterbacks because these tend to be black. Why do we compare cam newton to mike vic or other black quarterbacks? Because we don't have another comparison. Historically mobile Qbs have been black it is a simple fact. People are meshing racism with facts. If something is true it doesn't make racism IMO.
Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823
This reminded me of an interesting point I saw somewhere. Someone brought up the idea (it might have been Rooney himself) that the NFL should force the hiring windows for coaching staff that a head coach brings in, to be longer. As it stands right now a lot of head coaches are hired and within a week or 2 they have already filled all of their coordinator and major position coaching positions. This leads to an importance on who you know instead of what you are able to do. Couple that with this years trend to hire offensive minded coaches with the offense tending to be dominated by white coaches and you end up in a situation where it is hard for an African American to break into the NFL ranks of coaching especially on offense. Not because of racism, but because they just arnt as well known by the guys who are getting head coaching gigs. If there was a time limit where head coaches had to wait X number of days before hiring different positions then it could lead to a more thorough interviewing and hiring process for position coaches and coordinators. Which would have a trickle up effect and wouldnt even need special rules for minorities.
The quarterback comparison thing bugs me too. You can't really compare Tom Brady's toolset with Cam Newton's. They bring vastly different things to the table. In all honesty, the last very mobile quarterback who was white that comes to mind for me is Steve Young. I'm sure there are others I am forgetting, but he's the first that I immediately think of, whereas with black quarterbacks it's almost all of them.