Fine. You have yet to establish that the original motivation isn't secular, instead arguing back to their identity and pleading for a Christian to do it instead. Give me literally a shred of evidence that their motivation for teaching yoga is to proselytize for their religion.
Fine. You have yet to establish that the original motivation isn't secular, instead arguing back to their identity and pleading for a Christian to do it instead. Give me literally a shred of evidence that their motivation for teaching yoga is to proselytize for their religion.
I would love for you to quote for me where I was "pleading for a Christian to do it instead".
If someone from the YMCA came down and taught the same stretches, and that person was not funded by a religious organization or motivated by their religion, then I'd be fine with it.
I'm assuming at this point that you don't know what the YMCA is.
If someone from the YMCA came down and taught the same stretches, and that person was not funded by a religious organization or motivated by their religion, then I'd be fine with it.
I'm assuming at this point that you don't know what the YMCA is.
The YMCA, while originally Christian, has long since secularized.
If someone from the YMCA came down and taught the same stretches, and that person was not funded by a religious organization or motivated by their religion, then I'd be fine with it.
I'm assuming at this point that you don't know what the YMCA is.
The YMCA, while originally Christian, has long since secularized.
The same can be said about yoga.
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"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon
If someone from the YMCA came down and taught the same stretches, and that person was not funded by a religious organization or motivated by their religion, then I'd be fine with it.
I'm assuming at this point that you don't know what the YMCA is.
The YMCA, while originally Christian, has long since secularized.
With a mission to put Christian principles into practice through programs that build a healthy spirit, mind and body for all, our impact is felt when an individual makes a healthy choice, when a mentor inspires a child and when a community comes together for the common good.
Fair enough, I suppose. I was under the impression that they had changed their name to simply "The Y" to remove the focus on young men and religion. If it's the case that the YMCA is still an explicitly religious organization, I wouldn't support having them come in to run class activity either. My intent was to suggest a secular alternative source of an instructor, rather than a specific desire to see the YMCA involved. They were just an example organization I thought was secular.
Fair enough, I suppose. I was under the impression that they had changed their name to simply "The Y" to remove the focus on young men and religion. If it's the case that the YMCA is still an explicitly religious organization, I wouldn't support having them come in to run class activity either. My intent was to suggest a secular alternative source of an instructor, rather than a specific desire to see the YMCA involved. They were just an example organization I thought was secular.
I found the story about them changing their name to the Y, and their website indicates that they did rebrand, but the website seems to indicate that they did it for visibility reasons and makes no mention of secularization or gender issues. It seems kind of shady to me, to be honest--as if they're trying to avoid the image of being Christian-associated while still retaining their Christian mission.
If someone from the YMCA came down and taught the same stretches, and that person was not funded by a religious organization or motivated by their religion, then I'd be fine with it.
I'm assuming at this point that you don't know what the YMCA is.
The YMCA, while originally Christian, has long since secularized.
The same can be said about yoga.
How can you say that when the teachers in question are working on behalf of a religious institution which places a religious value on yoga?
I think this argument really just boils down to one thing: Common Sense. It's not about some ridiculous logic.
What it boils down to is the law. Ultimately, schools can't engage in unconstitutional sanctioning of religious activities. That's all there is to it. It's not complicated.
In in your mind doing Yoga is religious. Making a sandwich for the poor is religious.
That is where it doesnt make common sense.
To me common sense would lie at what is being taught not the organization behind the teaching.
In talking about yoga Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, before he became Pope Benedict XVI, warned Catholic bishops in 1989 that attempts to harmonize Christian meditation with Eastern techniques needed to be looked at closely to avoid the danger of blending different religious beliefs.
The underlying objective of yoga is related to a theology that says one can cleanse oneself of karma — the fruits of a person's actions in a lifetime — and stop the cycle of rebirth so one's spirit merges with the absolute, said Christian Lee Novetzke, University of Washington associate professor of comparative religion and South Asian studies, who specializes in Hinduism.
It does sound like some believe yoga is religious.
Did Yoga again on Saturday. This time I really tried to find something that could ID it with religious pretexts... I'm sorry, there just isn't anything. Not even anything spiritual. Just a hard ass workout that makes you sweat a lot and helps you control your breathing. Some of these tarts arguing against Yoga should...I don't know...try it?
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Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
I think this argument really just boils down to one thing: Common Sense. It's not about some ridiculous logic.
What it boils down to is the law. Ultimately, schools can't engage in unconstitutional sanctioning of religious activities. That's all there is to it. It's not complicated.
In in your mind doing Yoga is religious. Making a sandwich for the poor is religious.
That is where it doesnt make common sense.
To me common sense would lie at what is being taught not the organization behind the teaching.
In talking about yoga Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, before he became Pope Benedict XVI, warned Catholic bishops in 1989 that attempts to harmonize Christian meditation with Eastern techniques needed to be looked at closely to avoid the danger of blending different religious beliefs.
The underlying objective of yoga is related to a theology that says one can cleanse oneself of karma — the fruits of a person's actions in a lifetime — and stop the cycle of rebirth so one's spirit merges with the absolute, said Christian Lee Novetzke, University of Washington associate professor of comparative religion and South Asian studies, who specializes in Hinduism.
It does sound like some believe yoga is religious.
To me Yoga is no more religious than marriage. It can be religious for some people, but many people will partake in the act without the religious aspects or ignoring them.
Religion in schools is not the problem. Public schools are the problem.(this is another topic in itself so I won't derail the thread)
I will be sending my kids to private school after 5th grade because I know they will get a better education and better teacher to student ratio. This school also teaches the Bible which is of value to me and I don't expect them to get that in any government funded school.
I apologize for any grammatical errors in my posts.(I went to public school)
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Did Yoga again on Saturday. This time I really tried to find something that could ID it with religious pretexts... I'm sorry, there just isn't anything. Not even anything spiritual. Just a hard ass workout that makes you sweat a lot and helps you control your breathing. Some of these tarts arguing against Yoga should...I don't know...try it?
Yes, becuase just like last time you posted this: your experience with yoga, and your particularl instructor is clearly representative of every experience ever by anyone.
That doesn't mean this instances *was* religious, but it also says nothing about it NOT being religious either.
In talking about yoga Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, before he became Pope Benedict XVI, warned Catholic bishops in 1989 that attempts to harmonize Christian meditation with Eastern techniques needed to be looked at closely to avoid the danger of blending different religious beliefs.
The underlying objective of yoga is related to a theology that says one can cleanse oneself of karma — the fruits of a person's actions in a lifetime — and stop the cycle of rebirth so one's spirit merges with the absolute, said Christian Lee Novetzke, University of Washington associate professor of comparative religion and South Asian studies, who specializes in Hinduism.
It does sound like some believe yoga is religious.
Correct. Eastern Meditation is about cleansing the mind by erasure. Western thought teaches that the mind cannot be erased merely supplanted by correct thought patterns. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
If the yoga is teaching kids to "give thanks to the sun for warmth" then this isn't about erasure but implantation of the idea the sun is worthy of thanks vs the creator of the sun who gave it.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
basically, what it comes down to is the following facts:
1) Yoga originated as a religious practice, in Eastern religions.
2) Yoga, as practiced in the US, sometimes does and sometimes does not include the original religious teachings and implications.
3) Inclusion of religious teachings in a public school program would be a violation of the establishment clause.
thus:
IF the Yoga program instituted here includes the religious teachings and/or practices then it is a violation of the establishment clause. If it is secularized and has had those removed, then it is not.
Ancillary to the above, however, is that doing a simple set of "morning stretches" would achieve exactly the same benefit among this age group, while at the same time removing ANY doubt at all with regards to the establishment clause.
People need to be taught about religion. It is there, and it is affecting a TON of people. To get a whole view of world and be better at judging and taking calls, you need to know about the world.
I believe a varied class on religion should be mandatory, just such as history, world politics and governments. It's not to brainwash, it's to enlighten about the world as a whole.
I don't have an issue with these types of classes as electives, but there are few who are qualified to teach them at the secondary level.
The big issue is that it is hard to codify what one group believes or doesn't believe. You'll always have parents/students who challenge the curriculum.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Essentially, a California school district as started a Yoga program for the kids in the morning. As far as results, they are finding that children are more focused and less sleepy during the day because of this program, and are looking to expand them.
The National Center for Law and Policy, a conservative christian advocacy group, is pressing to get the program removed from the school curriculum. The irony here is that this is the same group that lobbies for in-school prayer.
My question is this: How much religion or religious influence is too much in schools? It seems ironic to me that the same people who advocate for in-school prayer, abstinence-only education and intelligent design would be against another program with religious roots that has been shown to help children focus in school.
I should note that Yoga is basically stripped of any real religious significance.
So, why are programs with obvious religious agendas like intelligent design and abstinence-only education okay while programs with religious roots but no agenda like Yoga is not?
as far as I'm concerned yoga is an accepted part of society and has nothing to do with any religion. It is just stretchering and such.
And as far as I am concerned keep religion away from my children. So help the spaghetti lord, may he condemn you. Jokes aside religion is bad and should not be taught or even praised in any form or fashion in schools.
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"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
Know how many christian mom's go to Yoga class to help them with back pain? If there was any religious aspects to the Yoga class I doubt they would have tried to impliment it. And why are they calling for the total ban of a stretching exercise when they could just ban the religious affiliation to it. Hell even remove the name and just continue with the stretching? Call it "stretch for fitness" or something.
Know how many christian mom's go to Yoga class to help them with back pain? If there was any religious aspects to the Yoga class I doubt they would have tried to impliment it. And why are they calling for the total ban of a stretching exercise when they could just ban the religious affiliation to it. Hell even remove the name and just continue with the stretching? Call it "stretch for fitness" or something.
My mom does yoga for back pain. I'm sure if there was any subtle stuff going on she wouldn't go.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Essentially, a California school district as started a Yoga program for the kids in the morning. As far as results, they are finding that children are more focused and less sleepy during the day because of this program, and are looking to expand them.
Yoga does have some eastern religious baggage. I do not see how a teacher talking about the various chakras of the body is any less religious than one talking about his views on Jesus.
If one is unacceptable the other one should be too.
I should note that Yoga is basically stripped of any real religious significance.
Wikipedia tells us...
Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग, /ˈjəʊɡə/, yoga) is a commonly known generic term for physical, mental, and spiritual disciplines which originated in ancient India.[1][2] Specifically, yoga is one of the six āstika ("orthodox") schools of Hindu philosophy. One of the most detailed and thorough expositions on the subject are the Yoga Sūtras of Patañjali. Various traditions of yoga are found in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.[3][4][5]
Pre–philosophical speculations and diverse ascetic practices of first millennium BCE were systematized into a formal philosophy in early centuries CE by the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.[6] By the turn of the first millennium, Hatha yoga emerged as a prominent tradition of yoga distinct from the Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. While the Yoga Sutras focus on discipline of the mind, Hatha yoga concentrates on health and purity of the body.[7]
Hindu monks, beginning with Swami Vivekananda, brought yoga to the West in the late 19th century. In the 1980s, yoga became popular as a physical system of health exercises across the Western world. Many studies have tried to determine the effectiveness of yoga as a complementary intervention for cancer, schizophrenia, asthma and heart patients. In a national survey, long-term yoga practitioners in the United States reported musculo–skeletal and mental health improvements.[8]
Standard: W/R Aggro
I would love for you to quote for me where I was "pleading for a Christian to do it instead".
I'm assuming at this point that you don't know what the YMCA is.
Standard: W/R Aggro
The YMCA, while originally Christian, has long since secularized.
The same can be said about yoga.
http://www.ymca.net/about-us/
Wrong again.
Standard: W/R Aggro
I found the story about them changing their name to the Y, and their website indicates that they did rebrand, but the website seems to indicate that they did it for visibility reasons and makes no mention of secularization or gender issues. It seems kind of shady to me, to be honest--as if they're trying to avoid the image of being Christian-associated while still retaining their Christian mission.
Standard: W/R Aggro
How can you say that when the teachers in question are working on behalf of a religious institution which places a religious value on yoga?
In talking about yoga Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, before he became Pope Benedict XVI, warned Catholic bishops in 1989 that attempts to harmonize Christian meditation with Eastern techniques needed to be looked at closely to avoid the danger of blending different religious beliefs.
The underlying objective of yoga is related to a theology that says one can cleanse oneself of karma — the fruits of a person's actions in a lifetime — and stop the cycle of rebirth so one's spirit merges with the absolute, said Christian Lee Novetzke, University of Washington associate professor of comparative religion and South Asian studies, who specializes in Hinduism.
It does sound like some believe yoga is religious.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
To me Yoga is no more religious than marriage. It can be religious for some people, but many people will partake in the act without the religious aspects or ignoring them.
I will be sending my kids to private school after 5th grade because I know they will get a better education and better teacher to student ratio. This school also teaches the Bible which is of value to me and I don't expect them to get that in any government funded school.
I apologize for any grammatical errors in my posts.(I went to public school)
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MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Yes, becuase just like last time you posted this: your experience with yoga, and your particularl instructor is clearly representative of every experience ever by anyone.
That doesn't mean this instances *was* religious, but it also says nothing about it NOT being religious either.
Correct. Eastern Meditation is about cleansing the mind by erasure. Western thought teaches that the mind cannot be erased merely supplanted by correct thought patterns. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
If the yoga is teaching kids to "give thanks to the sun for warmth" then this isn't about erasure but implantation of the idea the sun is worthy of thanks vs the creator of the sun who gave it.
1) Yoga originated as a religious practice, in Eastern religions.
2) Yoga, as practiced in the US, sometimes does and sometimes does not include the original religious teachings and implications.
3) Inclusion of religious teachings in a public school program would be a violation of the establishment clause.
thus:
IF the Yoga program instituted here includes the religious teachings and/or practices then it is a violation of the establishment clause. If it is secularized and has had those removed, then it is not.
Ancillary to the above, however, is that doing a simple set of "morning stretches" would achieve exactly the same benefit among this age group, while at the same time removing ANY doubt at all with regards to the establishment clause.
I don't have an issue with these types of classes as electives, but there are few who are qualified to teach them at the secondary level.
The big issue is that it is hard to codify what one group believes or doesn't believe. You'll always have parents/students who challenge the curriculum.
as far as I'm concerned yoga is an accepted part of society and has nothing to do with any religion. It is just stretchering and such.
And as far as I am concerned keep religion away from my children. So help the spaghetti lord, may he condemn you. Jokes aside religion is bad and should not be taught or even praised in any form or fashion in schools.
Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823
My mom does yoga for back pain. I'm sure if there was any subtle stuff going on she wouldn't go.
Yoga does have some eastern religious baggage. I do not see how a teacher talking about the various chakras of the body is any less religious than one talking about his views on Jesus.
If one is unacceptable the other one should be too.
Wikipedia tells us...
Does not sound secular to me.