From my quick research, it seems that Foxconn is actually a private company based out of Taiwan. Do you have a source to say it is actually a chinese government owned entity?
If they are not actually owned by the Chinese government (I read somewhere that they were, and remember the odd relationship between Taiwan and China - Taiwan claims independence, China claims ownership), they are not far off from it. The Chinese government heavily subsides Foxconn City and the other smaller Foxconn plants, and uses government employees to recruit and send new employees to the various Foxconn facilities. And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government.
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If they are not actually owned by the Chinese government (I read somewhere that they were, and remember the odd relationship between Taiwan and China - Taiwan claims independence, China claims ownership), they are not far off from it. The Chinese government heavily subsides Foxconn City and the other smaller Foxconn plants, and uses government employees to recruit and send new employees to the various Foxconn facilities. And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government.
You do realize I can say that about a lot of companies in America too but that doesn't mean that the government owns those companies.
You do realize I can say that about a lot of companies in America too but that doesn't mean that the government owns those companies.
Can you name one company in America where the government not only ignores human rights violations, but also uses Federal employees to recruit and ship new hires to the plant. And where the same company also transfers most of each employee's pay (most of whom are students) to the school where the employee originated from to the point where the employee makes $80 a month? And also a company that has a single facility that has upwards of a half a million employees living in the factory working 12 hour days 6 days a week?
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Can you name one company in America where the government not only ignores human rights violations, but also uses Federal employees to recruit and ship new hires to the plant. And where the same company also transfers most of each employee's pay (most of whom are students) to the school where the employee originated from to the point where the employee makes $80 a month? And also a company that has a single facility that has upwards of a half a million employees living in the factory working 12 hour days 6 days a week?
I was referring to you saying
If they are not actually owned by the Chinese government (I read somewhere that they were, and remember the odd relationship between Taiwan and China - Taiwan claims independence, China claims ownership), they are not far off from it. The Chinese government heavily subsides Foxconn City and the other smaller Foxconn plants, and uses government employees to recruit and send new employees to the various Foxconn facilities. And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government.
and yes, the US government does subsidize certain businesses, the government does have job placement programs, and the government has protected companies that commit wrong doing. See telecoms wiretapping American citizens.
and yes, the US government does subsidize certain businesses, the government does have job placement programs, and the government has protected companies that commit wrong doing. See telecoms wiretapping American citizens.
Are you seriously trying to compare US telecoms following Federal rules involving the Patriot Act as a human rights violation on the scale of Foxconn exploiting workers and forcing them to work 6 days a week, 12 hours a day for less than $80USD in compensation a month?
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"And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government. "
Could also be applied to the US Government and certain companies.
"And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government. "
Could also be applied to the US Government and certain companies.
In reference to the wiretapping by telecoms, they were following Federal rules.
Foxconn's questionable activities are not sanctioned by Chinese law, but rather from a business arrangement between Foxconn and the government.
That would be like the Federal government recruiting kids out of high school to go work at a GM plant making cars 6 days a week, 12 hours a day for $80 a month. It is clearly illegal, but being encouraged by the government in it's use of government employees to recruit the kids.
While the wiretapping of phones by telecoms (at Federal direction via Federal law) and the actions at Foxconn City are both human rights violations on one level or another, the actions of the respective governments make them an apples and oranges comparison.
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Its impossible not to buy that stuff, you would have to devote an impractical amount of time and effort to figure out which products to avoid and which to buy, and even then you can't be sure that all the info is correct (they could be lying to you about not using sweat shops).
So if your damned is you do, and damned if you don't, then do as you damn well please.
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From my quick research, it seems that Foxconn is actually a private company based out of Taiwan. Do you have a source to say it is actually a chinese government owned entity?
If you deal with China you need a Chinese "partner," basically the partner owns the ownership stake in the company of 51% and you own 49%. All companies in China are essentially "Chinese" or "Chinese partnered." The Chinese and the Latin Americans are still very bitter about colonization and paranoid about foreign powers in their affairs. As such Latin America has been moving forwards to limiting foreign ownership of land.
In reference to the wiretapping by telecoms, they were following Federal rules.
Foxconn's questionable activities are not sanctioned by Chinese law, but rather from a business arrangement between Foxconn and the government.
That would be like the Federal government recruiting kids out of high school to go work at a GM plant making cars 6 days a week, 12 hours a day for $80 a month. It is clearly illegal, but being encouraged by the government in it's use of government employees to recruit the kids.
While the wiretapping of phones by telecoms (at Federal direction via Federal law) and the actions at Foxconn City are both human rights violations on one level or another, the actions of the respective governments make them an apples and oranges comparison.
They're in the "Gilded Age stage" of their industrial growth, if you consider the Cultural Revolution their Civil War. So for now there's a lot of abuse, until the middle class starts demanding more which it already is. The spending habits of the youth exploit the high savings rates of the older workers to buy items and get established. Fascinating really if you follow this stuff.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Still when it comes down to it, the only way we Americans are going to 'make' the China government change their ways is to stop buying products made in their country until they do something about the working conditions.
I do find it funny to see some of the same people defend America big corps and they way they do, attack other countries for doing the thing they do. Everyone does understand thats why so many countries hate America. Imposing our thoughts and will on others. I believe in live and let live.
By the way, good luck with buying non-China products. In he end the extra time its going to take researching and driving to the place that has non-China products is going to be very costly. Most will just buy the China made to save time and money, which is why this is a subject any way.
Still when it comes down to it, the only way we Americans are going to 'make' the China government change their ways is to stop buying products made in their country until they do something about the working conditions.
That isn't going to happen more so when most of the companies here have it manufactured in china. i would rather see it made in korea and such as they have a better industrial base to a point, but right now china can get it done and done cheap.
until that changes companies will continue to go to them.
I do find it funny to see some of the same people defend America big corps and they way they do, attack other countries for doing the thing they do. Everyone does understand thats why so many countries hate America. Imposing our thoughts and will on others. I believe in live and let live.
No people are blaming apple for what goes on in china. apple has no control over how the chinese run their businesses or any other country for that matter.
apple has a high profit margin that they are not willing to give up. the best way to get apple to change is to not buy apple products which i don't anyway.
my next phone will be a galaxy s model. i won't buy an iphone, or a ipad or even an ipod.
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No people are blaming apple for what goes on in china. apple has no control over how the chinese run their businesses or any other country for that matter.
apple has a high profit margin that they are not willing to give up. the best way to get apple to change is to not buy apple products which i don't anyway.
Do you seriously think a private US company is going to go toe-to-toe with the Chinese government?
Because Foxconn is owned by their government - that is, essentially, a government plant with government workers employed by a government entity. And the Chinese government does not care. If 100 workers died tomorrow at Foxconn, they have millions of other people who will jump for that $1.11/hr they get paid to put together Apple products that hipster Americans pine over daily.
Foxconn is holding all the cards in this situation. They know Apple doesn't have any other options (realistically) besides them. At least not any options that will let them produce as many iPads and iPhones as they are right now and maintain their (I believe, based on recent numbers) 56% profit margin per unit they have right now.
So you're saying Foxconn would tell Apple to keep its $25 per unit? Hell, the plan I outlined would take at most $20 to implement and Foxconn itself would walk away with a nice profit.
John Doe needs a Wurmcoil. The store owner is selling them for $15. But John Smith has one for trade. He trades his Wurmcoil for a Bladehold that the store owner sells for $20. That's $35 in income that the store owner lost. Now, multiply that by the 30 or so people that play at the LGS and you can see how much money he loses in an evening.
So you're saying Foxconn would tell Apple to keep its $25 per unit? Hell, the plan I outlined would take at most $20 to implement and Foxconn itself would walk away with a nice profit.
Would depend on what Apple demanded and if that would be more cost effective to the company (IE - would it result in them making as much or more profit than the current rate).
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This store may be relevent too your debate. Congradulations they raised the wages!
$290USD a month now, most of which will probably still go to the schools where the workers were recruited from.
Better, but there are still a lot of issues that need addressed.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
The question is are you actually surprised? This is why companies move jobs across the ocean and to third world countries. Here in the united states if you work in a factory you expect paid time off, health care, 401k, and clean safe work conditions. All of these things cost money not to mention that they have to start basic labor at around 10 dollars an hour before anyone will even work those kind of jobs.
This more than likely happens a lot more than the media or consumers are aware of. It only becomes known when the media starts running out of fresh material.
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http://www.truth-out.org/iempire-apples-sordid-business-practices-are-even-worse-you-think/1328800251
If they are not actually owned by the Chinese government (I read somewhere that they were, and remember the odd relationship between Taiwan and China - Taiwan claims independence, China claims ownership), they are not far off from it. The Chinese government heavily subsides Foxconn City and the other smaller Foxconn plants, and uses government employees to recruit and send new employees to the various Foxconn facilities. And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government.
You do realize I can say that about a lot of companies in America too but that doesn't mean that the government owns those companies.
Can you name one company in America where the government not only ignores human rights violations, but also uses Federal employees to recruit and ship new hires to the plant. And where the same company also transfers most of each employee's pay (most of whom are students) to the school where the employee originated from to the point where the employee makes $80 a month? And also a company that has a single facility that has upwards of a half a million employees living in the factory working 12 hour days 6 days a week?
I was referring to you saying
and yes, the US government does subsidize certain businesses, the government does have job placement programs, and the government has protected companies that commit wrong doing. See telecoms wiretapping American citizens.
Are you seriously trying to compare US telecoms following Federal rules involving the Patriot Act as a human rights violation on the scale of Foxconn exploiting workers and forcing them to work 6 days a week, 12 hours a day for less than $80USD in compensation a month?
"And a lot of the questionable activities of Foxconn are not only not being combated by the Chinese government, they are being encouraged by the Chinese government. "
Could also be applied to the US Government and certain companies.
In reference to the wiretapping by telecoms, they were following Federal rules.
Foxconn's questionable activities are not sanctioned by Chinese law, but rather from a business arrangement between Foxconn and the government.
That would be like the Federal government recruiting kids out of high school to go work at a GM plant making cars 6 days a week, 12 hours a day for $80 a month. It is clearly illegal, but being encouraged by the government in it's use of government employees to recruit the kids.
While the wiretapping of phones by telecoms (at Federal direction via Federal law) and the actions at Foxconn City are both human rights violations on one level or another, the actions of the respective governments make them an apples and oranges comparison.
So if your damned is you do, and damned if you don't, then do as you damn well please.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
If you deal with China you need a Chinese "partner," basically the partner owns the ownership stake in the company of 51% and you own 49%. All companies in China are essentially "Chinese" or "Chinese partnered." The Chinese and the Latin Americans are still very bitter about colonization and paranoid about foreign powers in their affairs. As such Latin America has been moving forwards to limiting foreign ownership of land.
They're in the "Gilded Age stage" of their industrial growth, if you consider the Cultural Revolution their Civil War. So for now there's a lot of abuse, until the middle class starts demanding more which it already is. The spending habits of the youth exploit the high savings rates of the older workers to buy items and get established. Fascinating really if you follow this stuff.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I do find it funny to see some of the same people defend America big corps and they way they do, attack other countries for doing the thing they do. Everyone does understand thats why so many countries hate America. Imposing our thoughts and will on others. I believe in live and let live.
By the way, good luck with buying non-China products. In he end the extra time its going to take researching and driving to the place that has non-China products is going to be very costly. Most will just buy the China made to save time and money, which is why this is a subject any way.
That isn't going to happen more so when most of the companies here have it manufactured in china. i would rather see it made in korea and such as they have a better industrial base to a point, but right now china can get it done and done cheap.
until that changes companies will continue to go to them.
No people are blaming apple for what goes on in china. apple has no control over how the chinese run their businesses or any other country for that matter.
apple has a high profit margin that they are not willing to give up. the best way to get apple to change is to not buy apple products which i don't anyway.
my next phone will be a galaxy s model. i won't buy an iphone, or a ipad or even an ipod.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
These seem like contradictory statements to me.
So you're saying Foxconn would tell Apple to keep its $25 per unit? Hell, the plan I outlined would take at most $20 to implement and Foxconn itself would walk away with a nice profit.
Would depend on what Apple demanded and if that would be more cost effective to the company (IE - would it result in them making as much or more profit than the current rate).
This store may be relevent too your debate. Congradulations they raised the wages!
$290USD a month now, most of which will probably still go to the schools where the workers were recruited from.
Better, but there are still a lot of issues that need addressed.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/foremski/media-gets-its-facts-wrong-working-at-foxconn-significantly-cuts-suicide-risk/1356
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
This more than likely happens a lot more than the media or consumers are aware of. It only becomes known when the media starts running out of fresh material.