This is just a blatant political move, designed to sway a few undecideds that don't keep up with the news.
"I heard McCain wants to stop campaigning and fix the economy, and Obama just wants to keep going! He isn't going to do anything!"
Ugh.
Obama is 100% right on this. No little token break to "focus on the economy" is going to to a god damn thing. It's better that the people that have not decided learn about the candidates and make an informed decision about the person that's going to be RUNNING the damn economy.
She described pretty much exactly how she behaved. Why should she kiss her ass?
I've seen now three responses from that interview, and the woman has no idea what she's talking about. Her answers sound like Burroughs did a cut-up sound collage of callers on Hannity's show. Every answer is a mish mash of sentence fragments from her talking points with no basis in fact at all. A ****ing train wreck of a candidate.
"(S)uch a leader" AHAHAHAHAHAHA... Silly Americans, thinking al qaeda, you know, exists. This is the same propaganda they used against the Russians in the 50s. There is no extensive network of sleeper agents, double agents, training camps, and what have you. There never was. Wake up people.
I find it really funny that she said the terrorists hate us because of "the freedoms, the democracy, the tolerance, the women's rights." Palin is about as anti-women's rights as you can get.
Schooled by Katie Couric... DOES NOT INSPIRE CONFIDENCE
Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
There is no extensive network of sleeper agents, double agents, training camps, and what have you. There never was. Wake up people.
3,000 dead in New York and 200 in Madrid would like a word with you. You can question the extent of radical Islamist terror networks, but to question their existence is dangerous political hyperbole.
3,000 dead in New York and 200 in Madrid would like a word with you. You can question the extent of radical Islamist terror networks, but to question their existence is dangerous political hyperbole.
I believe that was his point using the word "extensive" - the fear-mongering over one serious attack has some people to the point where any person of Arab decent gets looked at questionably.
When the reality of things is that more than likely less than 1% of people in the nation's that harbor terrorists are terrorists. (and frankly likely a fraction of that - my guess would be in the 0.01% range at worst)
B_S, those were not plots carried out by some huge sinister organization. There is a reason why Osama didn't use the al Qaeda name until AFTER we started talking about it. There is no huge network of terrorists, just as there was no huge organized system of informants and double agents and saboteurs during the cold war.
I would hardly call Palin pro-women's rights just because she isn't as repressive as the friggin' Taliban.
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Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
I would hardly call Palin pro-women's rights just because she isn't as repressive as the friggin' Taliban.
I thought that women's rights were principally about how women can do any job that men can do. Doesn't it sound a bit silly to be claiming that a woman who happens to be a governor could be opposed to that notion?
Of course I get that you're referring to her stance on abortion; and it strikes me as disingenuous and more than a little sad that abortion-on-demand is so frequently treated as an integral parcel of women's rights (kind of the same way that "Christian" often gets lumped together with "conservative"). It's a simple scientific fact that to abort a developing fetus is to kill a human being; but since such a human being has yet to attain what we call personhood, there's some ambivalence about the ethical ramifications of terminating a pregnancy. Nevertheless, it is entirely logically consistent to believe both that women should have every social, political and economic opportunity available to men and that killing a fetus is murder.
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
If a woman is raped and gets pregnant, I'm pretty sure that puts a damper on her social, political, and economic opportunities. Reproductive rights certainly are a part of women's rights.
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Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
B_S, those were not plots carried out by some huge sinister organization. There is a reason why Osama didn't use the al Qaeda name until AFTER we started talking about it.
Whatever the actual position and power of one Osama bin Laden, people very definitely do go through training camps, move to Spain and Britain and the U.S., and act as terrorist cells. Does it really matter who they're taking orders from? Do they need to be part of some monolithic organization in order to represent a threat?
I would hardly call Palin pro-women's rights just because she isn't as repressive as the friggin' Taliban.
Neither would I call her "about as anti-women's rights as you can get" when (a) abortion is contentious as a women's right and (b) even granting that abortion is a women's right, you can get much, much worse.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
And being on board and not overturning her county charging the victims for rape kits, would be considered anti-women's rights by most. I believe their costs were quoted at around $3000.
"Hi, you got raped, we're here to help - $3k please"
Addition to avoid doublepost to add it to the thread:
Uhm - yea, wow.... Erhm.... wow... this just made me pretty much speechless... wow...
How is the "right" to murder a women's right? I'd say someone who fights against federally-sponsored murder of fetuses is very pro-women's rights.
I'd say from your tone that you're a man - thus you can't really fairly evaluate the feeling of the average woman on the topic. Nor can I as a man.
I'd personally say it's a non-sequitor to woman's rights either way - since there's many women on both sides of the equation. (Although I believe statistically Pro-Life women are the minority)
Regardless, the Pro-Life movement is silly for one fundamental reason - and that is where do the lines get set? Opinions of those that are "Pro-Life" vary wildly:
Some are only opposed to 3rd trimester abortions, some are opposed to all abortions.
Some say birth control is fine, some say pharmaceutical birth control is fine, some say only physical birth control (condom/diaphragm) is fine, some say no birth control is OK.
Some say the "morning after" pill is the same as an abortion, some others don't.
Some feel that in situations of rape or incest that abortion is OK in that rare circumstance, some feel that abortions in the case of a birth defect detected via amnio should have the option of being aborted, some feel that those situations don't mitigate the issue.
In fact the stupidest thing of all is MANY Pro-Choice people that are demonized by Pro-Lifers believe in parts of the above - just a large portion of people are too damn stupid to understand what reaching a middle ground is. (And one of the greatest examples of people that encouraged reaching the middle ground on topics would be the person Pro-Lifer's claim to follow - unfortunately they tend more towards Old Testament than New)
And then even MORE silly is those that oppose Stem Cell Research because they THINK it's connected to abortions - well, partially it is, because having the life go completely to waste would be stupid - but do you realize what the number one source of stem cells is even with abortions being legal? Miscarriages, by a factor of about 5 to 1. Stem Cell Research would barely see a blip, if any at all, if Pro-Lifer's got their way.
Whatever the actual position and power of one Osama bin Laden, people very definitely do go through training camps, move to Spain and Britain and the U.S., and act as terrorist cells.
Minimal numbers. Pretty much all the terrorist plots (the Toronto 18, the UK terrorist cell that had this ludicrous half-baked plan that now makes it so we can't bring liquids on board a plane) we've heard about for the past few years have been the work of amateur copycats. They had about as much to do with Bin Laden's organisation than, say, our local Montreal school shooter at Dawson College was part of an organisation with the Columbine shooters.
Most importantly, the "Al Quaida in Iraq" group that made so much trouble for the US military in Iraq was basically a local group unconnected to the actual Al Quaida, who only used the name for publicity as a recruitment tool (and of course, the American military and news media fueled their recruitment drive by accepting those claims uncritically).
Moderate Republicans and Democrats seemed to have agreed on a pact with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. But the hasty return to Washington of Mr. McCain, who said he was suspending his presidential campaign to help deal with the crisis, seems to have muddled the deal. Right-wing Republicans apparently rallied to block, or at least delay, the process, perhaps giving Mr. McCain a chance to broker a new agreement.
Way to put the country ahead of political posturing, John!
I'd personally say it's a non-sequitor to woman's rights either way - since there's many women on both sides of the equation. (Although I believe statistically Pro-Life women are the minority)
Regardless, the Pro-Life movement is silly for one fundamental reason - and that is where do the lines get set? Opinions of those that are "Pro-Life" vary wildly:
Let me "quote-hack you" for a second.
"Regardless, the <Pro-Choice> movement is "silly" for one fundamental reason - and that is where do the lines get set? Opinions of those that are "Pro-Choice" vary wildly:"
Obviously not a very useful point.
But what's silliest of all is that you said people were dumb for thinking that stem-cell research was related to abortion.
Modtext is in bold red so you'll pay attention to it. Infraction issued.
Uhm - yea, wow.... Erhm.... wow... this just made me pretty much speechless... wow...
Holy ****!
Does McCain even have a clue?? The McCain campaign appears to have been imploding lately. I wonder what the hell they are thinking? Less regulations are the solution???
Well, irregardless of what happens tomorrow will be an interesting day for politics. Who here thinks McCain will actually go through with not attending the debate?
But what's silliest of all is that you said people were dumb for thinking that stem-cell research was related to abortion.
I'm going to refute points - but only this once because this was requested to not be continued in the thread. (Apologies in advance for ignoring your warning to refute points this single time B_S)
First in that Wash Times article you linked, BARELY a majority feels that way, and the wording is a wording that applies to some people under both banners as I quoted - their litmus was a 51% barely majority in reference to "All but in cases of incest, rape, etc." cases.
Some people that are Pro-Choice fall into that camp as well as Pro-Life. Especially with the given wording applying to the SUBJECT - my mother for example is Pro-Choice herself when it comes to her view of laws, although she'd not have an abortion under any circumstance. (Not that it would be an option at her age anymore obviously, but still)
Pro-Choice != Abortions without stipulations necessarily.
As for stem cells - it is related, but only roughly 17% of the material comes from abortions, that's fact - the majority comes from miscarriages, that is once again fact. Yes, it's related - but to say stem cell research is heavily tied to it is a complete fabrication.
Once again apologies for ignoring the warning to refute - but he did it first for what it's worth.
(PS - As for the "Pro-Life movement is silly" I should've been more clear both sides of the equation are silly - although w/o a Pro-Life movement the other half of the equation wouldn't exist, regardless if people just sat down and worked out a compromise rather than trumping up stupid jingoisms on it and being stubborn, it would be somewhere better than it is currently for all sides involved: Or more simply undoing Roe v. Wade and letting the states decide like the 10th Amendment should've have encouraged)
And finally - NO MORE ABORTION TALK IN THIS THREAD - I CAN'T SAY IT IN RED SO YOU'LL LIKELY MISS IT, THE TOPIC WAS QUASHED - if you want to debate it, start (or continue if there's already a recent one) an appropriate thread.
Yeah... you saw this one coming. You don't get to suspend mod instructions for yourself and yourself alone. Infractions for disobeying mod instructions and backseat moderation issued.
Well it looks as though he won't attend. But then again he changes his mind every other day
If he doesn't attend, he is shooting himself in the foot, giving a free public forum to Obama alone.
It is bad enough that he didn't read (or understand?) the three page bailout proposal, but now he is digging his feet into the mud on an agreement, and somehow his campaign is calling it 'being bipartisan'.
This is such a surreal week.
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News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
Whatever the actual position and power of one Osama bin Laden, people very definitely do go through training camps, move to Spain and Britain and the U.S., and act as terrorist cells. Does it really matter who they're taking orders from? Do they need to be part of some monolithic organization in order to represent a threat?
What DarkAngel said. Also, the vast majority of those training camps are, in fact, people training to fight in their OWN COUNTRY, which really isn't any of my business. Most of them have no idea where Afghanistan is. Sleeper cells are almost completely nonexistant.
Al Qaeda is just like the ALF or ELF. It doesn't exist. McCain insisting that they are in Iraq is sheer idiocy and/or outright fabrication. If somebody burns down a new strip mall in construction or tampers with some bulldozers, they say they did it for the ALF. The same goes for illegal release of lab animals. If somebody were to drive a truck bomb into the Mall of America (HAY THERE ECHELON I KNOW YOU'RE LISTENING, I"M NOT A TERRS DO NOT ARREST PLZ), they would say they did it for al Qaeda. These are small, individual groups, that possibly know each other. They work individually. All of the fear mongering, propaganda, and ridiculous, freedom-raping laws after 9/11 are done with that knowledge. If a few people were to build a bomb and blow something up, there is NO ****ING WAY to stop them.
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Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/palin-on-bin-laden-such-a_n_129213.html
Thanks to the [Æther] shop for the sig!
"I heard McCain wants to stop campaigning and fix the economy, and Obama just wants to keep going! He isn't going to do anything!"
Ugh.
Obama is 100% right on this. No little token break to "focus on the economy" is going to to a god damn thing. It's better that the people that have not decided learn about the candidates and make an informed decision about the person that's going to be RUNNING the damn economy.
Some info for you folks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_el_pr/palin_finances;_ylt=AswY0.gdwfs0C.JVUN_nbXSs0NUE
Palin won't reveal her finances until after debate
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/palin-on-russia.html
This is very short, and completely terrifying.
She described pretty much exactly how she behaved. Why should she kiss her ass?
I've seen now three responses from that interview, and the woman has no idea what she's talking about. Her answers sound like Burroughs did a cut-up sound collage of callers on Hannity's show. Every answer is a mish mash of sentence fragments from her talking points with no basis in fact at all. A ****ing train wreck of a candidate.
"(S)uch a leader" AHAHAHAHAHAHA... Silly Americans, thinking al qaeda, you know, exists. This is the same propaganda they used against the Russians in the 50s. There is no extensive network of sleeper agents, double agents, training camps, and what have you. There never was. Wake up people.
I find it really funny that she said the terrorists hate us because of "the freedoms, the democracy, the tolerance, the women's rights." Palin is about as anti-women's rights as you can get.
Schooled by Katie Couric... DOES NOT INSPIRE CONFIDENCE
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
3,000 dead in New York and 200 in Madrid would like a word with you. You can question the extent of radical Islamist terror networks, but to question their existence is dangerous political hyperbole.
My God, is a little perspective too much to ask? Anti-abortion <<< adultery as a capital crime.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I believe that was his point using the word "extensive" - the fear-mongering over one serious attack has some people to the point where any person of Arab decent gets looked at questionably.
When the reality of things is that more than likely less than 1% of people in the nation's that harbor terrorists are terrorists. (and frankly likely a fraction of that - my guess would be in the 0.01% range at worst)
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
I would hardly call Palin pro-women's rights just because she isn't as repressive as the friggin' Taliban.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
I thought that women's rights were principally about how women can do any job that men can do. Doesn't it sound a bit silly to be claiming that a woman who happens to be a governor could be opposed to that notion?
Of course I get that you're referring to her stance on abortion; and it strikes me as disingenuous and more than a little sad that abortion-on-demand is so frequently treated as an integral parcel of women's rights (kind of the same way that "Christian" often gets lumped together with "conservative"). It's a simple scientific fact that to abort a developing fetus is to kill a human being; but since such a human being has yet to attain what we call personhood, there's some ambivalence about the ethical ramifications of terminating a pregnancy. Nevertheless, it is entirely logically consistent to believe both that women should have every social, political and economic opportunity available to men and that killing a fetus is murder.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
Whatever the actual position and power of one Osama bin Laden, people very definitely do go through training camps, move to Spain and Britain and the U.S., and act as terrorist cells. Does it really matter who they're taking orders from? Do they need to be part of some monolithic organization in order to represent a threat?
Neither would I call her "about as anti-women's rights as you can get" when (a) abortion is contentious as a women's right and (b) even granting that abortion is a women's right, you can get much, much worse.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
"Hi, you got raped, we're here to help - $3k please"
Addition to avoid doublepost to add it to the thread:
Uhm - yea, wow.... Erhm.... wow... this just made me pretty much speechless... wow...
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
Hey troll.
You are Paffim.
You are banned.
I'd say from your tone that you're a man - thus you can't really fairly evaluate the feeling of the average woman on the topic. Nor can I as a man.
I'd personally say it's a non-sequitor to woman's rights either way - since there's many women on both sides of the equation. (Although I believe statistically Pro-Life women are the minority)
Regardless, the Pro-Life movement is silly for one fundamental reason - and that is where do the lines get set? Opinions of those that are "Pro-Life" vary wildly:
Some are only opposed to 3rd trimester abortions, some are opposed to all abortions.
Some say birth control is fine, some say pharmaceutical birth control is fine, some say only physical birth control (condom/diaphragm) is fine, some say no birth control is OK.
Some say the "morning after" pill is the same as an abortion, some others don't.
Some feel that in situations of rape or incest that abortion is OK in that rare circumstance, some feel that abortions in the case of a birth defect detected via amnio should have the option of being aborted, some feel that those situations don't mitigate the issue.
In fact the stupidest thing of all is MANY Pro-Choice people that are demonized by Pro-Lifers believe in parts of the above - just a large portion of people are too damn stupid to understand what reaching a middle ground is. (And one of the greatest examples of people that encouraged reaching the middle ground on topics would be the person Pro-Lifer's claim to follow - unfortunately they tend more towards Old Testament than New)
And then even MORE silly is those that oppose Stem Cell Research because they THINK it's connected to abortions - well, partially it is, because having the life go completely to waste would be stupid - but do you realize what the number one source of stem cells is even with abortions being legal? Miscarriages, by a factor of about 5 to 1. Stem Cell Research would barely see a blip, if any at all, if Pro-Lifer's got their way.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Minimal numbers. Pretty much all the terrorist plots (the Toronto 18, the UK terrorist cell that had this ludicrous half-baked plan that now makes it so we can't bring liquids on board a plane) we've heard about for the past few years have been the work of amateur copycats. They had about as much to do with Bin Laden's organisation than, say, our local Montreal school shooter at Dawson College was part of an organisation with the Columbine shooters.
Most importantly, the "Al Quaida in Iraq" group that made so much trouble for the US military in Iraq was basically a local group unconnected to the actual Al Quaida, who only used the name for publicity as a recruitment tool (and of course, the American military and news media fueled their recruitment drive by accepting those claims uncritically).
Netdecking is Rightdecking
My latest data-driven Magic the Gathering strategy article
(TLDR: Analysis of the Valakut matchups. UB rising in the rankings. Aggro correspondingly taking a dive.)
Way to put the country ahead of political posturing, John!
Google can do a lot of research for you.
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2003/jul/01/20030701-115636-9509r/
Let me "quote-hack you" for a second.
"Regardless, the <Pro-Choice> movement is "silly" for one fundamental reason - and that is where do the lines get set? Opinions of those that are "Pro-Choice" vary wildly:"
Obviously not a very useful point.
But what's silliest of all is that you said people were dumb for thinking that stem-cell research was related to abortion.
Modtext is in bold red so you'll pay attention to it. Infraction issued.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Holy ****!
Does McCain even have a clue?? The McCain campaign appears to have been imploding lately. I wonder what the hell they are thinking? Less regulations are the solution???
Well, irregardless of what happens tomorrow will be an interesting day for politics. Who here thinks McCain will actually go through with not attending the debate?
- Enslaught
Of course that is barring something like extreme illness or other extreme reasons why a presidential candidate actually might.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I'm going to refute points - but only this once because this was requested to not be continued in the thread. (Apologies in advance for ignoring your warning to refute points this single time B_S)
First in that Wash Times article you linked, BARELY a majority feels that way, and the wording is a wording that applies to some people under both banners as I quoted - their litmus was a 51% barely majority in reference to "All but in cases of incest, rape, etc." cases.
Some people that are Pro-Choice fall into that camp as well as Pro-Life. Especially with the given wording applying to the SUBJECT - my mother for example is Pro-Choice herself when it comes to her view of laws, although she'd not have an abortion under any circumstance. (Not that it would be an option at her age anymore obviously, but still)
Pro-Choice != Abortions without stipulations necessarily.
As for stem cells - it is related, but only roughly 17% of the material comes from abortions, that's fact - the majority comes from miscarriages, that is once again fact. Yes, it's related - but to say stem cell research is heavily tied to it is a complete fabrication.
Once again apologies for ignoring the warning to refute - but he did it first for what it's worth.
(PS - As for the "Pro-Life movement is silly" I should've been more clear both sides of the equation are silly - although w/o a Pro-Life movement the other half of the equation wouldn't exist, regardless if people just sat down and worked out a compromise rather than trumping up stupid jingoisms on it and being stubborn, it would be somewhere better than it is currently for all sides involved: Or more simply undoing Roe v. Wade and letting the states decide like the 10th Amendment should've have encouraged)
And finally - NO MORE ABORTION TALK IN THIS THREAD - I CAN'T SAY IT IN RED SO YOU'LL LIKELY MISS IT, THE TOPIC WAS QUASHED - if you want to debate it, start (or continue if there's already a recent one) an appropriate thread.
Yeah... you saw this one coming. You don't get to suspend mod instructions for yourself and yourself alone. Infractions for disobeying mod instructions and backseat moderation issued.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
If he doesn't attend, he is shooting himself in the foot, giving a free public forum to Obama alone.
It is bad enough that he didn't read (or understand?) the three page bailout proposal, but now he is digging his feet into the mud on an agreement, and somehow his campaign is calling it 'being bipartisan'.
This is such a surreal week.
Twitter
What DarkAngel said. Also, the vast majority of those training camps are, in fact, people training to fight in their OWN COUNTRY, which really isn't any of my business. Most of them have no idea where Afghanistan is. Sleeper cells are almost completely nonexistant.
Al Qaeda is just like the ALF or ELF. It doesn't exist. McCain insisting that they are in Iraq is sheer idiocy and/or outright fabrication. If somebody burns down a new strip mall in construction or tampers with some bulldozers, they say they did it for the ALF. The same goes for illegal release of lab animals. If somebody were to drive a truck bomb into the Mall of America (HAY THERE ECHELON I KNOW YOU'RE LISTENING, I"M NOT A TERRS DO NOT ARREST PLZ), they would say they did it for al Qaeda. These are small, individual groups, that possibly know each other. They work individually. All of the fear mongering, propaganda, and ridiculous, freedom-raping laws after 9/11 are done with that knowledge. If a few people were to build a bomb and blow something up, there is NO ****ING WAY to stop them.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
I have truths for your lies,
I have words for the wise,
To open up your third eye
Yes, it should be interesting to watch. I'll be drafting at FNM while the debate is going on, but I plan to TiVo it and watch it tomorrow.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG