I think a better question is if I told you you're going to be tortured to death over a period of several weeks in ten years, would you kill yourself now?
I'd actually kill the person who told me that. No one knows how I'm going to die, and if he or she knows, then that man is very dangerous for society 'cause his unthinked words produce polls like this. No sane man wishes he had been aborted.
I'd actually kill the person who told me that. No one knows how I'm going to die, and if he or she knows, then that man is very dangerous for society 'cause his unthinked words produce polls like this. No sane man wishes he had been aborted.
I agree faust life is a precious gift that every man should value, of course there are bad moments, but there are beatiful moments too, no one is doing the job for you, if you want precious moments work for them, don`t stuck in a chair complaining about born, life is the most beatiful think that could have ever existed but that is my point of view.
Zendikar = Mirrodin/Urza reborn, just with more money rares and mythic bull ****. I hope to god we get another Masques block after this, jumping man on a ****ing pogo stick.
Quote from Flaming.Fist »
The card was already revealed. Failure to read the thread = spam warning. Also, failure to be funny.
Hmm...? What about the people who have much, much harder lives than you?
Life doesn't make a man, the man makes his life. Of course I'm not talking 'bout people with some inhealable diseases. Those people have the right to wish the subject. But others just spend too much time complaining and too little time actually making their lifes better.
The man is the weaver who weaves his life; You, me and any other man can make everything if he wants to.
Regardless of wether you lead a life full of bitter suffering or improbable joy it is inevitable that you will one day die. This is not to say that life is not without beauty, as indeed its brevity serves not to detract from it but rather to make it all the more poingiant. However human life is a system of decay and entrophy. From your very first breath, from your first heart beat, from your first day outside the womb you are ageing, creeping ever closer to death and nonexistance. The ultimate purpose of a life is a death, the end result of living is dieing. Thus for the sake of efiency I have no problem, nor would I have had any, with being aborted.
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'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
From your very first breath, from your first heart beat, from your first day outside the womb you are ageing, creeping ever closer to death and nonexistance.
But you actually live!!! Isn't that so? All matter, animated or not, rots when exposed to time, after all! But that is live, and while you
are ageing, creeping ever closer to death and nonexistance
, you are free to age and creep closer to death the way you want. And if you want to, you'll live a happy life, full of joy and delightment. But why should happiness come to someone who does not enough to achieve that happiness?
Don't get me wrong Faust I thoroughly enjoy my life, I'm just realistic about it. Sooner or later I, along with you and everyone else, will die. There is no grand sweeping purpose save that, there's no reason to be bitter about it, that's just how it inevitably ends. Eat, drink, and be merry for we are born to suffering and bred to die.
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'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
I tend to think that life is a great gift, it is also a great responsibility and a chance to prove ourselves worthy of the blessings we receive. As above, so below: if life is hard, it's because we have a lot to learn; the harder it is, the more we stand to learn and the harder we must work to be worthy of life's gifts.
I still believe this, after I had worked very hard, achieved some level of success in life, and then had it all taken away by an accident which left me unable to work in my chosen profession.
Rather than sit back and blame God or the government or the "system", I'm trying to rebuild. I still think life is the greatest gift and the greatest chance to give it back.
If a person wants to commit suicide, I'm not one to ridicule them or try to preach to them, even though I feel it is a waste. If a woman chooses to have an abortion rather than bear a child she can't or is unwilling to raise and protect for 20+ years, I can't fault her, even though I believe it is a brutal waste and an affirmation that we as a society have fallen entirely into socioeconomic determinism and lost our moral compass.
This poll is rather disingenuous, Furor, in that it might allow one to impute a death wish, and therefore a measure of discreditation, to any who might champion abortion in future discussions. It would be very easy for someone hence to look back on this poll, find a person's name among those who voted "yes", and refute their argument for a womans right to choose based on that vote. I'm not saying you would do this, although I suspect that's why you made the poll public in the first place. To make it easier to discredit pro-choice advocates arguements based on their answer to this poll, by discrediting them as confused self-loathing adolescents who have too many personal issues to be believed when they call for society to permit others to end the lives of their unborn children.
For the sake of avoiding even the appearance of wishing to manipulate the argument thus, then, perhaps we should ask a Mod to change the poll to keep confidential the names of those who voted here, and if the person wishes to assert why they voted the way they did, it would be purely voluntary.
Life is difficult. There is pain, suffering, loss, depravity. But your life is what you make of it. Coming from a poor background is not an exuse to remain a worthless bum for the rest of your petty existence. People can whine that they are (to use a few examples) unlovable (bull), unemployable (bull), lonely (get over yourself), and if they don't want to work to get out of those situations, then maybe a really, really late-term abortion is in order. But the work can be done, it's possible; just live your life.
You know, I've had some really downright ****ty experiences. My life has not been a cake walk by any means. But nothing is insurmountable.
To answer the poll question: a firm and absolute no.
This is a pretty absurd statement. I cannot concieve of a person wishing they were aborted. One cannot compare existance to non-existance since no one has any experience with non-existance. However, I would say that if they want to take their own life, then that is their choice to make...be it doctor assisted or otherwise.
I can't quite yet make the philosophical jump to the political platform I would want to run on if I ever decided to enter politics. pro choice + pro euthanasia + pro death penalty + pro war = pro-death. Ive got three out of 4...its that war one that keeps me from establishing the pro-death platform. Just thought I would throw that one out there since this is a thread of absurdity with the moderator holding his finger over the lock button if it spirals out of control.
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If I was generally happy overall...and saw no reason that that would change in 20 years...I might choose the bull. If my life was fairly happy, the "integral" from now to 20+ years would likely surpass the bull pain.
At what point do we conclude that the conglomerate pleasure of a person's life is not worth the conglomerate pain? I know you've provided a little graph, but what strict, scientific and infallible methods are being used to arrive at such numbers? Are any such methods being used? Could they even exist?
I am talking about fetuses that will just be miserable and in some cases...unloved...or unlovable (inaccesible).
Well, I suppose we'll have to leave it at that, then. I do not personally feel that the potentiality of leading an unhappy or uncomfortable life is grounds for the preemptive snuffing-out of said life.
I would easily agree that abortions due to typical financial issues (not extreme things like 3rd world povery where you starve to death), or convienence or "accidents" due not warrant abortion.
Now we're talking! See, I knew you were a cool guy. I've always said so.
Quote from kingcobweb »
I think a better question is if I told you you're going to be tortured to death over a period of several weeks in ten years, would you kill yourself now?
There are plenty of better questions, obviously. My only real goal was this discussion we're having, and hey presto! We're having it.
Quote from nightwing »
I disagree Nick.
Do I know you?
You are trying to troll and you dont even know it.
This is actually impossible, just so you know. I resent the suggestion all the same, but it really is.
Our views are the same on almost everything, so I am not criticising you on that. But, you created this topic to show that no one can know if a life is going to be bad? Thank you Dr. Science. I think we know this. This is a topic that, though I can not atest to your mindset at the time you created, is now a "gotcha" topic and compleatly irrelevant to everything.
That "gotcha" factor is precisely the reason why the pro-abortion argument from potential hardship is bankrupt. That is what I'm trying to show. You can't blame me just because it worked.
*^^
I'm going to put a big asterisk right here to draw people's attention to this, because nobody seems to be getting it.
As a moderator, you should realize this and lock/delete this topic. This is tastless, tactless, and sick. STOP IT
Are you serious? D:
Quote from SnoopDoggAtog »
This poll is rather disingenuous, Furor, in that it might allow one to impute a death wish, and therefore a measure of discreditation, to any who might champion abortion in future discussions.
That was certainly not my intention, but if you feel the concern is real, steps will have to be taken.
It would be very easy for someone hence to look back on this poll, find a person's name among those who voted "yes", and refute their argument for a womans right to choose based on that vote. I'm not saying you would do this, although I suspect that's why you made the poll public in the first place.
To make it easier to discredit pro-choice advocates arguements based on their answer to this poll, by discrediting them as confused self-loathing adolescents who have too many personal issues to be believed when they call for society to permit others to end the lives of their unborn children.
I just made it public because I do not like private polls. There's really nothing more to it than that, I'm afraid. :/
It could be noted, for example, that anyone who is not comfortable with having their answer to this question known is under no obligation to answer it.
For the sake of avoiding even the appearance of wishing to manipulate the argument thus, then, perhaps we should ask a Mod to change the poll to keep confidential the names of those who voted here, and if the person wishes to assert why they voted the way they did, it would be purely voluntary.
I agree, if this is possible. I will look into the matter.
Well, one does not generally go about hallooing people by their Christian names when one does not, in fact, know them.
You should stop the crappiness of this topic.
Abort it, you mean? How quaint. If you would like to improve, the best way to go about it is by posting meaningful and thought-provoking content. Clearly I'm a nub on that score, so it looks like it's up to you.
Quote from Danbanzero »
I go back to my original point. Abortion is only hurtful for the parents. If you didn't exist, you would know nothing of life, and you wouldn't know if your life is good or bad. Therefore, the question asked by this thread is completely pointless.
I will only point you to the Mammoth Asterisk and retire.
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Then loom'd his streaming majesty From out that wine-dark fog, And spake he unto all our crew: "Go forth, and read my blog."
If you decided to give $100 to some random person in the street, had the bill in your pocket, but as you were approaching the person you were going to give it to, you decided against it, because you need that $100 for your apartment bill, is that wrong?
My life ain't so bad. Sure, there are a lot of things I could have, like a job and a car, but I'll get those eventually if I persevere.
Sure, I don't have a girlfriend, and only a handful of friends, but that means fewer problems and a lot more time to think.
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Originally Posted by Green Arrow Yes I did, I wouldn't fully disagree with chronoplasam. Perhaps I do deserve toture. But who amongst us besides myself has what it takes to toture me?
Originally Posted by Highroller
Compared to what? I think compared to chocolate ice cream, women, unicorns, and kung fu, the state pretty much sucks.
If you decided to give $100 to some random person in the street, had the bill in your pocket, but as you were approaching the person you were going to give it to, you decided against it, because you need that $100 for your apartment bill, is that wrong?
The answer to this question has no bearing on the merits of either charity of thrift.
Which is my point.
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Then loom'd his streaming majesty From out that wine-dark fog, And spake he unto all our crew: "Go forth, and read my blog."
Are any such methods being used? Could they even exist?
Doctors, physicians, scientist can predict illness...and they will tell you how certain they feel. You can rate and predict you happiness, assuming no random accidents come up. You cannot get an exact value, and what value people consider "to much risk" will vary.
Who don't I drink or gamble? It is just to risky, to much loss, little or no gain.
Quote from T2 »
Life is difficult. There is pain, suffering, loss, depravity. But your life is what you make of it. Coming from a poor background is not an exuse to remain a worthless bum for the rest of your petty existence. People can whine that they are (to use a few examples) unlovable (bull), unemployable (bull), lonely (get over yourself), and if they don't want to work to get out of those situations, then maybe a really, really late-term abortion is in order. But the work can be done, it's possible; just live your life.
I don't think that anyone believes that they are totally unemployable. Some people can have a crappy job forever, "friends" that they don't really like, but they won't be contributing much, nor will they be happy. Maybe another disturbed person with several issues may love the person in question, but love is not always mutual.
A lot of things, like getting freinds/lovers/career are not just a simple f(w) function, where w is the amount of work. I can ask you to build a Star Destroyer...but the time, materials, and no-how do not exist...so it is impossible...yes things can actually be impossible.
Trying to be likeble if you are a reject can be like trying to install Windows XP on a computer from the outside in....you just don't know what to do...and you get it from your childhood. It is not like a class, where you can learn it in a less than a lifetime and work to use it.
I am not saying that a "down man" is a "dead man", but that in a few cases, in certian areas, that is just the case.
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"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
I live in a situation better than 95% of the world, not worrying every day about whether or not I am going to be killed or maimed. Sure, I wish that I could make life better for myself at times, but I'm already way ahead of most of the world. To want to have never existed, and to want to not exist (suicidal tendencies) is absolutely ignorant and self-centered. I absolutely love my life.
The answer to this question has no bearing on the merits of either charity of thrift.
I am not arguing for the merits of either, but rather stating that there is a time for charity and a time for thrift. There can be no regret for a gift not recieved, especially when one was not aware of the gift one was about to get. It is your choice to get thrown out of your apartment, or to not give the stranger $100. But if you choose the latter, what grievance will be suffered by that stranger? None.
Is that true by facts or true by convention? Have you heared of a play entitled "Who's Life is it Anyway?"?
To the original question: I, myself, do not wish I had been aborted. All things considered, my life is alright. However, this does not mean there is no circumstance in which I would want to have been aborted. Something that pro-lifers seem to misunderstand is that pro-choice = pro-abortion. No. We do not encourage abortion, we simply ask that is is made avaliable.
Something that pro-lifers seem to misunderstand is that pro-choice = pro-abortion. No. We do not encourage abortion, we simply ask that is is made avaliable.
QFT. Pro-life people think that abortions are a form of birth control. It's not. It is not a substitute for safe sex in any way, shape, or form. If, however, the **** hits the fan, it should be available.
I am not saying that pro-choice people are pro-abortion. I am saying that they are supporting irresponsible and reckless behavior. I won’t. That’s all.
I'm all about taking responsibility for your actions. But punishing 3 people for one stupid mistake is not only rather draconian, but also rather impractical. There are much better moral arguments against abortion than "They deserved it, stupid people." What about people who had the condom break? They took precautions, and were not negligent. They just had bad luck, or a defective product.
And you could also just say "I am taking responsibility. I acknowledge that I did something wrong, and now I am fixing it". Especially with such an.... unconventional view on the value of life as you have.
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I'd actually kill the person who told me that. No one knows how I'm going to die, and if he or she knows, then that man is very dangerous for society 'cause his unthinked words produce polls like this.
No sane man wishes he had been aborted.
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I agree faust life is a precious gift that every man should value, of course there are bad moments, but there are beatiful moments too, no one is doing the job for you, if you want precious moments work for them, don`t stuck in a chair complaining about born, life is the most beatiful think that could have ever existed but that is my point of view.
The man is the weaver who weaves his life; You, me and any other man can make everything if he wants to.
darkdemon- I completely agree with you
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Stardust Siggies! Wonderful graphics:D
But you actually live!!! Isn't that so? All matter, animated or not, rots when exposed to time, after all! But that is live, and while you , you are free to age and creep closer to death the way you want. And if you want to, you'll live a happy life, full of joy and delightment. But why should happiness come to someone who does not enough to achieve that happiness?
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Stardust Siggies! Wonderful graphics:D
The Official Vodka Duke of the 499
Visit my best/worst cards by collector's number thread!
Stardust Siggies! Wonderful graphics:D
I still believe this, after I had worked very hard, achieved some level of success in life, and then had it all taken away by an accident which left me unable to work in my chosen profession.
Rather than sit back and blame God or the government or the "system", I'm trying to rebuild. I still think life is the greatest gift and the greatest chance to give it back.
If a person wants to commit suicide, I'm not one to ridicule them or try to preach to them, even though I feel it is a waste. If a woman chooses to have an abortion rather than bear a child she can't or is unwilling to raise and protect for 20+ years, I can't fault her, even though I believe it is a brutal waste and an affirmation that we as a society have fallen entirely into socioeconomic determinism and lost our moral compass.
This poll is rather disingenuous, Furor, in that it might allow one to impute a death wish, and therefore a measure of discreditation, to any who might champion abortion in future discussions. It would be very easy for someone hence to look back on this poll, find a person's name among those who voted "yes", and refute their argument for a womans right to choose based on that vote. I'm not saying you would do this, although I suspect that's why you made the poll public in the first place. To make it easier to discredit pro-choice advocates arguements based on their answer to this poll, by discrediting them as confused self-loathing adolescents who have too many personal issues to be believed when they call for society to permit others to end the lives of their unborn children.
For the sake of avoiding even the appearance of wishing to manipulate the argument thus, then, perhaps we should ask a Mod to change the poll to keep confidential the names of those who voted here, and if the person wishes to assert why they voted the way they did, it would be purely voluntary.
Speak for yourself. I plan on living forever.
You know, I've had some really downright ****ty experiences. My life has not been a cake walk by any means. But nothing is insurmountable.
To answer the poll question: a firm and absolute no.
I can't quite yet make the philosophical jump to the political platform I would want to run on if I ever decided to enter politics. pro choice + pro euthanasia + pro death penalty + pro war = pro-death. Ive got three out of 4...its that war one that keeps me from establishing the pro-death platform. Just thought I would throw that one out there since this is a thread of absurdity with the moderator holding his finger over the lock button if it spirals out of control.
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Well, I suppose we'll have to leave it at that, then. I do not personally feel that the potentiality of leading an unhappy or uncomfortable life is grounds for the preemptive snuffing-out of said life.
Now we're talking! See, I knew you were a cool guy. I've always said so.
There are plenty of better questions, obviously. My only real goal was this discussion we're having, and hey presto! We're having it.
Do I know you?
This is actually impossible, just so you know. I resent the suggestion all the same, but it really is.
That "gotcha" factor is precisely the reason why the pro-abortion argument from potential hardship is bankrupt. That is what I'm trying to show. You can't blame me just because it worked.
*^^
I'm going to put a big asterisk right here to draw people's attention to this, because nobody seems to be getting it.
Are you serious? D:
That was certainly not my intention, but if you feel the concern is real, steps will have to be taken.
I just made it public because I do not like private polls. There's really nothing more to it than that, I'm afraid. :/
It could be noted, for example, that anyone who is not comfortable with having their answer to this question known is under no obligation to answer it.
I agree, if this is possible. I will look into the matter.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
Doubtful. Does it matter. You should stop the crappiness of this topic.
Abort it, you mean? How quaint. If you would like to improve, the best way to go about it is by posting meaningful and thought-provoking content. Clearly I'm a nub on that score, so it looks like it's up to you.
I will only point you to the Mammoth Asterisk and retire.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
My life ain't so bad. Sure, there are a lot of things I could have, like a job and a car, but I'll get those eventually if I persevere.
Sure, I don't have a girlfriend, and only a handful of friends, but that means fewer problems and a lot more time to think.
now begins the thousand years of REIGN OF BLOOD!
The answer to this question has no bearing on the merits of either charity of thrift.
Which is my point.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
Doctors, physicians, scientist can predict illness...and they will tell you how certain they feel. You can rate and predict you happiness, assuming no random accidents come up. You cannot get an exact value, and what value people consider "to much risk" will vary.
Who don't I drink or gamble? It is just to risky, to much loss, little or no gain.
I don't think that anyone believes that they are totally unemployable. Some people can have a crappy job forever, "friends" that they don't really like, but they won't be contributing much, nor will they be happy. Maybe another disturbed person with several issues may love the person in question, but love is not always mutual.
A lot of things, like getting freinds/lovers/career are not just a simple f(w) function, where w is the amount of work. I can ask you to build a Star Destroyer...but the time, materials, and no-how do not exist...so it is impossible...yes things can actually be impossible.
Trying to be likeble if you are a reject can be like trying to install Windows XP on a computer from the outside in....you just don't know what to do...and you get it from your childhood. It is not like a class, where you can learn it in a less than a lifetime and work to use it.
I am not saying that a "down man" is a "dead man", but that in a few cases, in certian areas, that is just the case.
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
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A truly great petition
I am not arguing for the merits of either, but rather stating that there is a time for charity and a time for thrift. There can be no regret for a gift not recieved, especially when one was not aware of the gift one was about to get. It is your choice to get thrown out of your apartment, or to not give the stranger $100. But if you choose the latter, what grievance will be suffered by that stranger? None.
Sure there are people I wish were aborted, but, no, not me personally.
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[thread=43661][/thread]
Is that true by facts or true by convention? Have you heared of a play entitled "Who's Life is it Anyway?"?
To the original question: I, myself, do not wish I had been aborted. All things considered, my life is alright. However, this does not mean there is no circumstance in which I would want to have been aborted. Something that pro-lifers seem to misunderstand is that pro-choice = pro-abortion. No. We do not encourage abortion, we simply ask that is is made avaliable.
QFT. Pro-life people think that abortions are a form of birth control. It's not. It is not a substitute for safe sex in any way, shape, or form. If, however, the **** hits the fan, it should be available.
I'm all about taking responsibility for your actions. But punishing 3 people for one stupid mistake is not only rather draconian, but also rather impractical. There are much better moral arguments against abortion than "They deserved it, stupid people." What about people who had the condom break? They took precautions, and were not negligent. They just had bad luck, or a defective product.
And you could also just say "I am taking responsibility. I acknowledge that I did something wrong, and now I am fixing it". Especially with such an.... unconventional view on the value of life as you have.