Ok, to prevent the hijacking of other threads to discuss this topic, this thread was created.
Do you support gay marriage? Why, or why not. Do you even support gay sex in general? Why or why not?
Discuss.
I support both. I feel that its their choice that they make to do that. And its their life and their the ones that have to live with it.
*munches up attention* Oh yes, my warty body enjoys all of this. I will carry my appreciation of your acknowledging me back to my swamp-gave and bask in it while eating rancid beetles.[/troll]
Quote from Booda »
The war on terror. "Terror." Yes. This may just be me, but it's kind of difficult to declare war on an abstract noun.
I support it because I believe that America was founded on the basis of keeping people free and equal. It disqusts me, the politicians that preach justice for all, then vote to keep people who simply love someone different then a heterosexual supressed.
i wish you two went to my school.
I think that there is nothing wrong with gay marriage or sex because it is their life and all that jazz. Even if you dont like gayness i think you have to respect peoples rioght to be individual. Some gos for lesbians obviously
I hate all the bible bull****
Oo, smart people for once.
Originally posted on the dicontinued 'squidi.net' blog: "Right now, after this past Tuesday, I look at the word "marriage" in the same way that I look at the word "******". All it does is remind me of the hatred and fear that we, as a country, still harbor below our shallow surface. We may not truly believe that all men were created equal, but that doesn't matter. They were, and the ideals that this country was founded on agree. These ideals will never be perfect, but they pave the path and point the direction and we will always strive to reach them. There will always be bumps, but the destination is already known.
I was surprised on Tuesday. I did not realize that the gay marriage issue was quite as opposed as it was. Any rational being would quickly realize why opposing gay marriage is no different than wanting separate water fountains. What we, apparently, are not dealing with rational beings, and I think that we, as a country are the worse for it. I think that we've proven that a true democracy is impossible, unlikely, and doomed from the start unless the people who are to govern themselves are educated and tolerant. Our country is neither. I knew we weren't educated, but I had always believed that we were tolerant, almost to a fault."
I just love that argument. And, I don't think there's anything left for me to say. 'Spose I'll wait for some ignorant dummy to post something stupid, come back, and pwn them.
Lets keep the cussing to a minimum and maybe not to offend religions... I am Christian you know.
I'll put aside my religion for a second and just say what I think, not what the Bible says:
Yes, America was founded on freedom, and if they actually do have Gay Marrirages sooner or later, I'm not all for it, but its not like you'll see me outside protesting with a crowd.
Swear to God, I am homophobic. Homophobic Definition from Dictionary.com:
Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
Behavior based on such a feeling.
I mean, I just am very... unconfortable with them by me, I might be nervous or just maybe want to run away if I were to stand by one. I'm a straight man... but I am afraid of... where they "been lately".
I do not mind if there is going to be homosexual marrirages, but if I, and only I could decide on whether to have them or not in the U.S. of A, I would say "No."
Sorry if you disagree with me, thats just my opinion.
I'm for gay marriage. That is because the only reasons to ban it are religious, and because of the whole seperation of church and state amendment, a ban would be unconstitutional.
Also, as long as you're not doing it on the street, I don't care.
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Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
No one on earth has the right to approve or deny another's search for love, regardless of where they find it.
Gotta amend this, since some others posted while I was in the process:
The religion argument does not hold water for the following reason:
The majority of United States citizens are Christian. In the western and middle eastern world, the vast majority of people are of Jewish, Christian, or Islamic faith. Of these people, the majority have provisions in their religious doctrine for excommunication (condemnation, etc.) of homosexuals. Since this doctrine leaves homosexuals outside the realm of religion, the issue is also outside the realm of religion.
There is no religious argument for the ban on gay marriage.
I find it strange how you could be afraid of someone who are not much different from you. If you never knew they were gay, you wouldn't be scared, but the moment you hear they are, you're scared. It doesn't make much sense to me whatsoever. You may as well assume everyone is gay and be scared of everyone. I just don't know how your mind or fears work exactly. Not that I'm saying something is wrong with you since I'm pretty sure others are like that as well, I just don't understand since there is no reason to be afraid. Arachnophobia or something have their reasons, I just don't see homophobia have its reason. So if I'm not asking for too much, is there any reason you're afraid or uncomfortable?
Anyway, back on subject. Being gay and all myself, how could I not support it? I guess I'll leave it at that unless someone wants to know my reason (which isn't hard to figure out anyway).
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"If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door." - Harvey Milk, from a tape that was to be played only after his assassination.
"Kids don't beat me, I beat kids!" - Homer
"Serve no master but your ambition." - Illyria
"The best government is the government that is powerlessly afraid of overstepping it's bounds." - Denver'D
I find it strange how you could be afraid of someone who are not much different from you. If you never knew they were gay, you wouldn't be scared, but the moment you hear they are, you're scared. It doesn't make much sense to me whatsoever. You may as well assume everyone is gay and be scared of everyone. I just don't know how your mind or fears work exactly. Not that I'm saying something is wrong with you since I'm pretty sure others are like that as well, I just don't understand since there is no reason to be afraid. Arachnophobia or something have their reasons, I just don't see homophobia have its reason. So if I'm not asking for too much, is there any reason you're afraid or uncomfortable?
My hypothosis is that:
1. The reason why people are afraid of gay people is that they wouldent wasnt to be in the situation where a gay person is hitting on them and wanting to have a relationship with them. In other words, their afraid that they'll have sex with a gay person.
Or...
2. Their afraid that if their near a gay person, they'll catch their sexuality and turn gay themselves ( the number 1 killer in the world next to cooties ).
Quote from Grobyc »
Anyway, back on subject. Being gay and all myself, how could I not support it? I guess I'll leave it at that unless someone wants to know my reason (which isn't hard to figure out anyway).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your gay because you love men.:rolleyes:
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F***in eh, eh?
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Quote from Booda »
The war on terror. "Terror." Yes. This may just be me, but it's kind of difficult to declare war on an abstract noun.
It depends on what the purpose of state sponsorship of marriage is all about.
If state sponsorship of marriage is about an investment in the next generation (children), then it makes no sense to invest in an organization (gay marriage) that will rarely ever produce.
(Note that it makes sense to invest in organizations that produce returns most of the time -- it is not necessary to insist they they produce returns all of the time.)
On the other hand, if state sponsorship of marriage is about encouraging love, affection, and healthy relationships among citizens, then it makes sense to allow gay marriage.
Aside:
The Bible condemns arsenokoites, which is homosexual offense (or homosexual intimacy). There is nothing in the Bible which condemns homosexuality alone (the tendency, urge, inclination, or attraction toward the same sex).
My hypothosis is that:
1. The reason why people are afraid of gay people is that they wouldent wasnt to be in the situation where a gay person is hitting on them and wanting to have a relationship with them. In other words, their afraid that they'll have sex with a gay person.
That should be a compliment if you ask me.
2. Their afraid that if their near a gay person, they'll catch their sexuality and turn gay themselves ( the number 1 killer in the world next to cooties ).
But anyway, someone asked me for a reason (although not sure if they are serious or not). I don't think that rights should be limited to certain people only because others are different. No one says that if you have red hair, you can't marry. And although some say that being gay is a choice, there has been scientific studies that says different. So assuming that is true (which I have no doubt it is), it is no different than saying that blacks, Jews, Asians, or whatever other group that is not a choice can't marry.
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"If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door." - Harvey Milk, from a tape that was to be played only after his assassination.
"Kids don't beat me, I beat kids!" - Homer
"Serve no master but your ambition." - Illyria
"The best government is the government that is powerlessly afraid of overstepping it's bounds." - Denver'D
I'm opposed to marriage in general, not between a man and man, but just between any two (or more) human beings. It's a very peculiar institution, marriage. But if people want to marry, there's no reason any two people (regardless of their sexual bend) shouldn't get married.
I live in Oregon, one of the dozen or so states that just voted to amend their state constitutions to narrow marriage to only opposite-sex folks. And I just don't get it. The thing is, with gay marriage, everybody wins! Gay people get to have their relationship sanctioned by the state or the church or whatever and it doesn't really affect anyone else. It's a very interesting political question. And it's good for the state because marriage licences cost $$, so that's a nice bit of revenue coming in.
I think the whole 'gay marriage issue' was blown into the spotlight by Karl Rove and his cronies as a way to further divide the nation in an election year. The result was large segments of the population voting on matters that don't include job creation/loss, the economy, war, etc.
A note to anyone who opposes gay marriage: don't marry a gay dude (or gal). It's that simple.
For the life of me, I can't comprehend at all why people can be "logically" opposed to gay marriage.
Even if they claim that their views have nothing to do with the bible. Their views are generally centered around fear and ignorance of the issue. As Ixidor pointed out. And I mean no offense to Ixidor, but from the way he put it, It seemed like he was basically saying, "I'm against gays because I think its gross". Should that kind of logic really be put into law? I find it totally repulsive and disgusting when people wear socks that are any other colour then white, but I certainly understand that its also just a crazy iillogical thought in my head and that it shouldn't effect anyone else but me.
One of the most ridiculous arguemtents I've ever heard from someone against gay marriage, and oddly enough I've heard this same statement from at least 3 different people who were against was "If you make gay marriage legal, you might as well make murder legal!"
I'm guessing they're trying to imply that if were going to let one group get away with something, whats to stop us from letting another group get away with something. But couldn't the same logic be used to say,"If your gonna let people smoke in a restuarant, you might as well let those same people molest their kids".
I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of points made from the other side have been.
I myself fully support gay marriage, and I'm even parts of various on-line human rights campaigns. I think once theres love between two consenting people, nothing should be able to stop them from coming together.
But I've stated my case a thousand times, and it seems most people on here are intelligent enough to understand it. Thanks
For the life of me, I can't comprehend at all why people can be "logically" opposed to gay marriage.
Even if they claim that their views have nothing to do with the bible. Their views are generally centered around fear and ignorance of the issue. As Ixidor pointed out. And I mean no offense to Ixidor, but from the way he put it, It seemed like he was basically saying, "I'm against gays because I think its gross". Should that kind of logic really be put into law? I find it totally repulsive and disgusting when people wear socks that are any other colour then white, but I certainly understand that its also just a crazy iillogical thought in my head and that it shouldn't effect anyone else but me.
One of the most ridiculous arguemtents I've ever heard from someone against gay marriage, and oddly enough I've heard this same statement from at least 3 different people who were against was "If you make gay marriage legal, you might as well make murder legal!"
I'm guessing they're trying to imply that if were going to let one group get away with something, whats to stop us from letting another group get away with something. But couldn't the same logic be used to say,"If your gonna let people smoke in a restuarant, you might as well let those same people molest their kids".
I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of points made from the other side have been.
I myself fully support gay marriage, and I'm even parts of various on-line human rights campaigns. I think once theres love between two consenting people, nothing should be able to stop them from coming together.
But I've stated my case a thousand times, and it seems most people on here are intelligent enough to understand it. Thanks
There is a logical argument against gay marriage, as I mentioned above. I myself don't subscribe to it because I don't believe in its main premise. But how would you respond to this: What benefit does the government get in exchange for granting a gay couple sponsorship that is ultimately monetary?
Also, the people likening gay marriage to murder are idiots. Every side of every debate has idiots. It's important not to generalize their entire side as containing idiots with idiotic arguments and analogies.
What benefit does the government get in exchange for granting a gay couple sponsorship that is ultimately monetary?
I'm not totally sure I understand the question. Are you asking how would the government benefit by giving money to a gay couple to get married?
Well I guess it would be more of a humanitarian thing, by doing that they might actually show some compassion towards their people rather then just be seen as this mean old cold and corporate machine whos only bottom line is money.
But if your implying that gay's get some kind of special treatment, I don't think they should. I'm just saying that they should have the same marriage rights as any straight couple.
So I guess im saying that the government wouldn't recieve any more of a benefit then they would from supporting a straight marriage?
Did that make any sense?
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I'm not totally sure I understand the question. Are you asking how would the government benefit by giving money to a gay couple to get married?
Well I guess it would be more of a humanitarian thing, by doing that they might actually show some compassion towards their people rather then just be seen as this mean old cold and corporate machine whos only bottom line is money.
But if your implying that gay's get some kind of special treatment, I don't think they should. I'm just saying that they should have the same marriage rights as any straight couple.
So I guess im saying that the government wouldn't recieve any more of a benefit then they would from supporting a straight marriage?
Did that make any sense?
What I meant was that one of the arguments against gay marriage is that the purpose of government sponsorship of a marriage is to gain a return (a marriage normally produces and raises children). I do not agree with that premise, but if it were true and taken to its logical end, the government cannot really justify sponsoring a gay marriage.
I like your humanitarian response though. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons the government should allow gay marriage. It might make the Christian right angry, but in the long run it would give the government a much more progressive and caring image.
I see both sides of the argument, but tend to lead towards allowing them. It's not hurting anybody, but come on, if they want to be together, it's nobody;'s business but theirs. They should have every right other couples have.
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Well, seems like spoiler chains(And with them my old sig) have been broken by The Man.
The Man is a Jackass and apparently he is also a Communist.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD YOU MODS! MY SIG IS NOT FOR EDITING!:mad:
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I see both sides of the argument, but tend to lead towards allowing them. It's not hurting anybody, but come on, if they want to be together, it's nobody;'s business but theirs. They should have every right other couples have.
Except what you're saying is that it IS the government's business... right?
Except what you're saying is that it IS the government's business... right?
I believe it's the government's job to protect people's rights.
Quote from tuxedo snake »
I think its all good and gravy, so long as they dont bug me, or do dirty things in public.
If we don't bug you?!? Oh cmon, straight people canoodaling in public bugs me, but I deal with it. Dirty things in public? What does that even mean?!? Bah, I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore. So, before I go off on a tangent that makes no sense, I'll click the little 'Submit Reply' button... (hehe, I used the word canoodaling).
I'm not for gay "marriage". I absolutely believe that homosexuals should be able to have civil unions, and have all of the same rights as married heterosexual couples, but marriage is between a man and a woman. However, just because marriage is between a man and a woman does not give anyone the right to exclude homosexuals from their rights, or their pursuit of happiness.
I don't have any fear of gays, in fact one of my closest friends is gay. (Former NY State Champ, too. =P) But I think that the term "marriage" has some connotations that should not be changed. But to not allow a gay person's partner to make critical medical decisions, for example, is silly, and should be changed.
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I had 2,580 posts on 'news, and then it had to go and be ****ty.
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Do you support gay marriage? Why, or why not. Do you even support gay sex in general? Why or why not?
Discuss.
I support both. I feel that its their choice that they make to do that. And its their life and their the ones that have to live with it.
I think that there is nothing wrong with gay marriage or sex because it is their life and all that jazz. Even if you dont like gayness i think you have to respect peoples rioght to be individual. Some gos for lesbians obviously
I hate all the bible bull****
Originally posted on the dicontinued 'squidi.net' blog:
"Right now, after this past Tuesday, I look at the word "marriage" in the same way that I look at the word "******". All it does is remind me of the hatred and fear that we, as a country, still harbor below our shallow surface. We may not truly believe that all men were created equal, but that doesn't matter. They were, and the ideals that this country was founded on agree. These ideals will never be perfect, but they pave the path and point the direction and we will always strive to reach them. There will always be bumps, but the destination is already known.
I was surprised on Tuesday. I did not realize that the gay marriage issue was quite as opposed as it was. Any rational being would quickly realize why opposing gay marriage is no different than wanting separate water fountains. What we, apparently, are not dealing with rational beings, and I think that we, as a country are the worse for it. I think that we've proven that a true democracy is impossible, unlikely, and doomed from the start unless the people who are to govern themselves are educated and tolerant. Our country is neither. I knew we weren't educated, but I had always believed that we were tolerant, almost to a fault."
I just love that argument. And, I don't think there's anything left for me to say. 'Spose I'll wait for some ignorant dummy to post something stupid, come back, and pwn them.
Lets keep the cussing to a minimum and maybe not to offend religions... I am Christian you know.
I'll put aside my religion for a second and just say what I think, not what the Bible says:
Yes, America was founded on freedom, and if they actually do have Gay Marrirages sooner or later, I'm not all for it, but its not like you'll see me outside protesting with a crowd.
Swear to God, I am homophobic.
Homophobic Definition from Dictionary.com:
I do not mind if there is going to be homosexual marrirages, but if I, and only I could decide on whether to have them or not in the U.S. of A, I would say "No."
Sorry if you disagree with me, thats just my opinion.
Truly,
- Ixi v2
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Also, as long as you're not doing it on the street, I don't care.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
No one on earth has the right to approve or deny another's search for love, regardless of where they find it.
Gotta amend this, since some others posted while I was in the process:
The religion argument does not hold water for the following reason:
The majority of United States citizens are Christian. In the western and middle eastern world, the vast majority of people are of Jewish, Christian, or Islamic faith. Of these people, the majority have provisions in their religious doctrine for excommunication (condemnation, etc.) of homosexuals. Since this doctrine leaves homosexuals outside the realm of religion, the issue is also outside the realm of religion.
There is no religious argument for the ban on gay marriage.
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Anyway, back on subject. Being gay and all myself, how could I not support it? I guess I'll leave it at that unless someone wants to know my reason (which isn't hard to figure out anyway).
"Kids don't beat me, I beat kids!" - Homer
"Serve no master but your ambition." - Illyria
"The best government is the government that is powerlessly afraid of overstepping it's bounds." - Denver'D
My hypothosis is that:
1. The reason why people are afraid of gay people is that they wouldent wasnt to be in the situation where a gay person is hitting on them and wanting to have a relationship with them. In other words, their afraid that they'll have sex with a gay person.
Or...
2. Their afraid that if their near a gay person, they'll catch their sexuality and turn gay themselves ( the number 1 killer in the world next to cooties ).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your gay because you love men.:rolleyes:
If state sponsorship of marriage is about an investment in the next generation (children), then it makes no sense to invest in an organization (gay marriage) that will rarely ever produce.
(Note that it makes sense to invest in organizations that produce returns most of the time -- it is not necessary to insist they they produce returns all of the time.)
On the other hand, if state sponsorship of marriage is about encouraging love, affection, and healthy relationships among citizens, then it makes sense to allow gay marriage.
Aside:
The Bible condemns arsenokoites, which is homosexual offense (or homosexual intimacy). There is nothing in the Bible which condemns homosexuality alone (the tendency, urge, inclination, or attraction toward the same sex).
The government should not even be involved with the term marriage anyway.
me: 9378498/9378498
Stormy: Im never playing against you again.
me: and this was done with out an earthcraft
That should be a compliment if you ask me.
But anyway, someone asked me for a reason (although not sure if they are serious or not). I don't think that rights should be limited to certain people only because others are different. No one says that if you have red hair, you can't marry. And although some say that being gay is a choice, there has been scientific studies that says different. So assuming that is true (which I have no doubt it is), it is no different than saying that blacks, Jews, Asians, or whatever other group that is not a choice can't marry.
"Kids don't beat me, I beat kids!" - Homer
"Serve no master but your ambition." - Illyria
"The best government is the government that is powerlessly afraid of overstepping it's bounds." - Denver'D
I live in Oregon, one of the dozen or so states that just voted to amend their state constitutions to narrow marriage to only opposite-sex folks. And I just don't get it. The thing is, with gay marriage, everybody wins! Gay people get to have their relationship sanctioned by the state or the church or whatever and it doesn't really affect anyone else. It's a very interesting political question. And it's good for the state because marriage licences cost $$, so that's a nice bit of revenue coming in.
I think the whole 'gay marriage issue' was blown into the spotlight by Karl Rove and his cronies as a way to further divide the nation in an election year. The result was large segments of the population voting on matters that don't include job creation/loss, the economy, war, etc.
A note to anyone who opposes gay marriage: don't marry a gay dude (or gal). It's that simple.
Even if they claim that their views have nothing to do with the bible. Their views are generally centered around fear and ignorance of the issue. As Ixidor pointed out. And I mean no offense to Ixidor, but from the way he put it, It seemed like he was basically saying, "I'm against gays because I think its gross". Should that kind of logic really be put into law? I find it totally repulsive and disgusting when people wear socks that are any other colour then white, but I certainly understand that its also just a crazy iillogical thought in my head and that it shouldn't effect anyone else but me.
One of the most ridiculous arguemtents I've ever heard from someone against gay marriage, and oddly enough I've heard this same statement from at least 3 different people who were against was "If you make gay marriage legal, you might as well make murder legal!"
I'm guessing they're trying to imply that if were going to let one group get away with something, whats to stop us from letting another group get away with something. But couldn't the same logic be used to say,"If your gonna let people smoke in a restuarant, you might as well let those same people molest their kids".
I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of points made from the other side have been.
I myself fully support gay marriage, and I'm even parts of various on-line human rights campaigns. I think once theres love between two consenting people, nothing should be able to stop them from coming together.
But I've stated my case a thousand times, and it seems most people on here are intelligent enough to understand it. Thanks
Rasputina - A Quitter
There is a logical argument against gay marriage, as I mentioned above. I myself don't subscribe to it because I don't believe in its main premise. But how would you respond to this: What benefit does the government get in exchange for granting a gay couple sponsorship that is ultimately monetary?
Also, the people likening gay marriage to murder are idiots. Every side of every debate has idiots. It's important not to generalize their entire side as containing idiots with idiotic arguments and analogies.
This does nothing to answer the question, or further the debate, spam warning - Laika
I'm not totally sure I understand the question. Are you asking how would the government benefit by giving money to a gay couple to get married?
Well I guess it would be more of a humanitarian thing, by doing that they might actually show some compassion towards their people rather then just be seen as this mean old cold and corporate machine whos only bottom line is money.
But if your implying that gay's get some kind of special treatment, I don't think they should. I'm just saying that they should have the same marriage rights as any straight couple.
So I guess im saying that the government wouldn't recieve any more of a benefit then they would from supporting a straight marriage?
Did that make any sense?
Rasputina - A Quitter
:fingers:
What I meant was that one of the arguments against gay marriage is that the purpose of government sponsorship of a marriage is to gain a return (a marriage normally produces and raises children). I do not agree with that premise, but if it were true and taken to its logical end, the government cannot really justify sponsoring a gay marriage.
I like your humanitarian response though. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons the government should allow gay marriage. It might make the Christian right angry, but in the long run it would give the government a much more progressive and caring image.
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Except what you're saying is that it IS the government's business... right?
I believe it's the government's job to protect people's rights.
If we don't bug you?!? Oh cmon, straight people canoodaling in public bugs me, but I deal with it. Dirty things in public? What does that even mean?!? Bah, I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore. So, before I go off on a tangent that makes no sense, I'll click the little 'Submit Reply' button... (hehe, I used the word canoodaling).
I don't have any fear of gays, in fact one of my closest friends is gay. (Former NY State Champ, too. =P) But I think that the term "marriage" has some connotations that should not be changed. But to not allow a gay person's partner to make critical medical decisions, for example, is silly, and should be changed.
2002 Favorite Moderator
Random smilies: :spirit: :fingers: :banana::bunnycake:
Alright.
The opposition would say that being in love and having a relationship might be a right, but receiving state sponsorship of that relationship is not.