My guess is though, the human race will be wiped out by a comet. As to what TFE said they're all the time on the discovery channel talking about comet's hitting us, and they seem pretty smart so...
Surely by 2025 we'll have the technological means to destroy a comet set on a collision course from Earth. Soon a probe will collide with a comet in order to cause debris to spew forth. Having the means to destroy a comet is only but a few years away.
If we dont kill ourselves first, the world ends somewhere between 2050-2070
Why? not some dumb hole in the ozone, global warming, or *GASP* a meteor headed for our planet.
It is because if we keep using natural resources the way we are, we will run out of all natural resources on the planet (including fresh water) somewhere aroudn there. It's actually not that far-fetched, just look at prices for gasoline, bottled water, and things like that. In the past 2 years alone they've skyrocketed...
Wheeee we're all doomed. I'm gonna go sing the Doom song now
There was a guy back in the 19th century who said that by 1940 London would be buried under 6 feet of horse manure. Then the internal combustion engine was invented. In this case, we already have lots of possibly alternatives for fossil fuels (BTW, fresh water running out? What happened to the water cycle?), it's just the petroleum companies are doing their best to push them out of the picture ("Gasohol? Lets make the public think it's bad for their cars. Hemp instead of nylon? You can make drugs from it, ban it good!")[/pseudo-hippy-commie rant]
Anyway, the end of natural resources doesn't mean the end of human kind, just a mild inconvience.
The sun will not go supernova. In about 5 billion years, the sun will start expanding into a red giant. It will engulf Earth unless Earth is pushed into a farther orbit, but not Mars, Jupiter, or any of the other outer planets. Then it will drop its outer layers of gas, leaving only the core. An example of a way it could look from the outside:
That's the Ring Nebula, another planetary nebula.
You are completely accurate. I shouldn't make posts when I'm sleepy I guess. Million should be billion.
However, I remember reading somewhere that considering that the sun is converting H to He (fusion is fun!) that once it tries to start creating Fe, it'll explode in a supernova and that stars that try to do anything above Fe fusionwise, usually it'll be just a nova because splitting atoms that are bigger is less intensive. Compare A bombs to H bombs. At least, that's what the curve of binding energy suggests. And... http://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374515980/qid=1120469328/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/103-9677192-1345432?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
this is the book if I remember I read on the topic.
It seems likely that something will collide with us causing widespread calamity.
More likely, however, is the idea that thoughtless industrial and environmental practices will make something snap, necessitating a reversion of sorts to an earlier state of affairs. I just really don't see the world's current lifestyle as being something sustainable.
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Then loom'd his streaming majesty From out that wine-dark fog, And spake he unto all our crew: "Go forth, and read my blog."
I really like the boards here at mtgsalvation.com. When I saw the title of this thread I was going to disappointed if no one defined the End of the World properly (as worthawholebean and others have) I would have been disappointed if this thread had many assuming the end to be some apocalyptic end of the human race. Such thinking is erroneous and very anthropocentric. Once we are gone there is nothing to stop cockroaches from inheriting the earth evolving, and doing better job of getting off this 3rd rock from the sun. Lets hope as STAX so hopefully put it, it does not come to that and we can get space exploration going in earnest.
Imagine what could be done if the US and other countries were not wasting Billions of dollars on gas to fly planes, transport soldiers, and move tanks all over the Middle East and if every country was not wasting their time on weapons.... Ah, Imagine....
I dont know when the world is going to end, but early December 2012 scares me. Something bad is going to happen, and alot of us are probably going to die.
I have no specefic reasoning for this, outside my own head of course. we're definetly heading downhill, and sooner or later the ****s going to hit the fan.
As I'm pretty sure I've said before in this thread, the Sun is not nearly large enough or hot enough to be able to fuse anything past helium. It would have to be about 3 times as big to fuse He into Be, C and then Fe. I have read numerous books about supernovae and black holes, been to a Boston Museum of Science presentation on the subject, and have this site at Cornell University's astronomy department to back me up.
The comparison between A bombs and H bombs is completely different. A bombs, fission bombs, use nuclear fission to create energy by splitting Uranium-235 and Plutonium atoms in half and then converting a few extra particles into energy. An H bomb uses nuclear fusion (what the sun uses) to create energy by fusing deuterium and tritium and then converting an extra neutron directly into energy. Two completely different reactions.
Fair enough, I swear I read somewhere that it said the sun was big enough for a supernova. Oh well.
The analogy I was making for people that may not have known what we are talking about. I know Fission and Fusion are two seperate things and Fusion is by far more powerful. Basically, bigger atoms means less energy than smaller atoms. See where I'm trying to go with this.
I still believe that if we don't get off this rock or put a job to get off this rock, we'll eventually just run out of food or create enough toxins to kill ourselves. Humans, at nature, are consumers and will sit and consume and take up space. One, I never said this is bad. Two, this suggests that we need to expand as we will eventually pop this bubble and cause massive problems. Ever heard of the 30 day yeast project? Basically they stuck yeast in a mason jar with food and let it sit there sealed. It will double every day until about day 29 where the jar is full of yeast. Day 30 comes and the jar will be empty because the amount of toxins that a full jar, and no way to get out, caused them to die. Solution? Open the jar. The yeast will live a lot longer then.
I suggest a lot of you read the book "The Millenial Project" by Marshall T. Savage. It's a little dated (we now know the caps of mars consist mainly of water and not CO2, which makes it easier to terraform the planet actually) but it has a lot of good points and really interesting ideas that I've never seen tests about.
worthawholebean: I just realized something. Are you from the Boston area? I grew up in Boston then my family moved to Indiana.
To the dude who said that loss of natural resources is an "inconvenience" exactly what do you class as a natural resource?
a few key ones that i know of:
Wood and Coal go - no fuel (for cars/trains/planes) or power (for houses/atms/computers) unless its either Nuclear (which is a bit of a problem) or green (solar, wind, geothermal) which is rather expensive to set up on a mass scale.
Water - No Crops or Drinking water - ps crops = food
I think that about covers it.
Also no wood = no cardboard = no more Magic cards aaaaagh
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"Between your faith, and my Glock 9mm....I'll take my Glock." -- End Of Days
I was wondering if anyone was going to say anything about wood. I was getting ready to. Now wood means most people's lives will end. They will still be alive but, not have a life. I know I want to be playing magic while the world is ending :).
If we do have the technology to stop a comet then that's good. I wonder what would happen if a plant just for a little while got off rotation or to the side just a little bit. Then over time two planets would slowly crash together, that would be scary as ass seeing a freakin' planet right over your house. Im not saying it's logical but it would be insane. It's just one of those weird things i've though about before.
Wood and Coal go - no fuel (for cars/trains/planes) or power (for houses/atms/computers) unless its either Nuclear (which is a bit of a problem) or green (solar, wind, geothermal) which is rather expensive to set up on a mass scale.
Hydrogen fuel cells, etc. Wood is renewable so we can at least try to do something about that. Fossil fuels like coal are a worry, but more and more alternatives are coming up. I'm just saying the entire human race isn't going to die the second we run out of fossil fuels.
Quote from Magician »
Water - No Crops or Drinking water - ps crops = food
How are we running out of water? The amount of water that has been depleated by whatever chemical reactions we use is absolutely negligable. Not to mention water that is produced by chemical reactions (incidentally, burning fossil fuels produces water...). Since when have we been running out of water?
EDIT: I just saw your earlier post. Australia is in drought not because we have been using up the water, but because the rain hasn't been hitting us. I blame Victoria's Coal Power Plants for producing polution that causes rain to fall off the coast instead of where it should be.
When will the world truly end? I say when it comes to the point that humans have traveled into the stars to the point that Earth becomes abandoned and turned into a wasteland where humanity grew from.
When the human race will end? Never. There is always a victor in every war, and the human need of survival trumps all.
I think a lot of you are underestimating the resiliency of humans. At most 6 billion years (when the sun bbecomes a red giant), but possibly sooner due to an ice age, global warming, the magnetic field reversing and such. None of these will kill earth or all of humanity.
The Human race is due a mass extinction event, in fact we're late for one by hundreds of years. The current theory I've seen bandied about the most is that global warming will trigger the next Ice Age.
...
Anyway, if this theory is correct, the Human race should be facing extinction through one source or another.
Some people actually postulate that the 6ht mass extinction event in history is already upon us. Some consider the rise of humans the 6th mass extinction. Therefore the penultimate MEE may be artificial, if it happens.
Personally, I think people a just too hung up on the world ending. We don't exactly know all the factors causing global warming and the ozone layer depletion. In terms of global warming, we really cannot do much about it. For the last several thousand years, the Sun's activity has also generally increased, coincidence, no? The ozone layer is an iffy issue as well. Scientists do not know exactly how long that hole in the ozone layer has been there. It could have been there for a very long time. I believe there are also postulations that the hole fluxes with the change in the Earth's magnetic field. The point is that the issue is still up in the air (no pun intended). Yes, the ozone layer is huge and expanding, but we plain don't know the time scale on this thing. It could just go up in down over time. If anything, we're more likely to suffocate from our own pollutants.
Nuclear War and Plague are very real possibilities however. Considering that a number of 3rd world countries have nuclear programs. The corallary is that they are less afraid to use their weapons due to poor economy etc. They are more likely to use whatever resources at their disposal when dealing with potential threats. (Israel vs. the Middle East, Pakistan vs. India, N. Korea vs. the U.S. , etc.)
Plague is also possible considering small pox never was truly eradicated. (The United States didn't destroy the last vial they had in the 70s, go figure). In addition to an increaingly globalizing world, diseases spread more. Heaven forbid if we ever had a mast breakout of a disease such a Turberculosis, a new strain of Influenza, Small Pox, or that potential Ebola/Small Pox hybrid). Ebola is less likely considering it only happens along several narrow regions in Africa, and it only comes up periodically).
Then there is the up-and coming nanotechnology. Some people have said (on the science channel in fact) that nanotechnology could lead to thew end of the world. Imagine a nanite virus that's immune to like everything getting into a human population. Wherever there is a new technological breakthrough, governments and corporations are right there and ready to abuse it. The nanotech thing is currently left to speculation for now however.
In the end though, I think that no, the world will NOT end.
the Human race is due a mass extinction event, in fact we're late for one by hundreds of years.
Better go back to your prob/stat class to learn how much words like "due" mean. And, while you're at it, natural history so you learn exactly how long the dinosaurs were around.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
There are the three theories: The Club of Rome: We will all work up to a really bad disaster that will destroy us. Boserup: We'll advance in technology to keep ourselves away from disaster Gaia Theory: The Earth with self regulate and so wipe us out to keep itself going.
Unless mankind screws up SO incredibly badly, we will probably not die out for at least 100 years or so.
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Originally Posted by Green Arrow Yes I did, I wouldn't fully disagree with chronoplasam. Perhaps I do deserve toture. But who amongst us besides myself has what it takes to toture me?
Originally Posted by Highroller
Compared to what? I think compared to chocolate ice cream, women, unicorns, and kung fu, the state pretty much sucks.
Humanity will spread into space, worship the god emperor of mankind and get eaten by an extraglactic species called tyranids, or overrun by orcs, or killed by necrons...
1.5 Cookies to the first person who knows what the hell I am talking about!
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
The world won't end when we run out of finite resources, but when the economic exploitability of those resources runs out.
In other words, when it takes a barrel of oil to extract a barrel of oil, when it takes a cut down tree to cut down a tree, when you have to burn a kilo of coal to burn a kilo of coal, the human population will start rapidly declining.
The world won't end when we run out of finite resources, but when the economic exploitability of those resources runs out.
In other words, when it takes a barrel of oil to extract a barrel of oil, when it takes a cut down tree to cut down a tree, when you have to burn a kilo of coal to burn a kilo of coal, the human population will start rapidly declining.
Yes, but the world will go on just fine. It may take 100 million years to fully regenerate itself, but the world has dealt with much greater catastrophe than our short-sighted species can inflict and lived to tell the tale.
But I agree with you, Hubert's Peak Oil may begin the process of doom for the homo sapien as it presently exists.
Yes, but the world will go on just fine. It may take 100 million years to fully regenerate itself, but the world has dealt with much greater catastrophe than our short-sighted species can inflict and lived to tell the tale.
Of course. I was taking the question subjectively. Most people, when asked the question, "When do you think the world will end," are responding to when humanity will end. I could have answered the question:
In approximately 4.5 billion years, when the sun's photosphere will engulf the earth.
Humanity will, I hope and expect, eventually get off this rock, but almost exclusively in the form of machine intelligence. The Earth will be left to man, who will, I would guess, last an extremely long time -- until the last humans decide that the human body isn't really worth continuing, anymore.
I hope, quite seriously (who wants to die?), to last until that day (in artifical form) but now is far too early to understand the nature of machine intelligence.
Due to the huge abundance of hydrogen on Jupiter, it could be possible that in the future, we could possess the technology to "beam" hydrogen from Jupiter to the Sun to continue the fusion reaction in the Sun's core and extend the Earth's life.
I also hope Homo futurus will create an artifical planet when the Earth nears the time where the Sun will expand as a red giant and engulfs the Earth. I suggest an artifical planet because, as the Sun would shed its outer layers, it will burn again for a few more million years. However, then, the Sun would probably become very unstable and release lethal doses of gamma rays and X-rays. With the artifical planet, Homo futurus could probably build shields to deflect the gamma and X rays.
Or perhaps we could venture out of the solar system and seek refuge on another planet. This is actually possible, due to antimatter and annihalation; where we could actually use a matter-antimatter engine (think Star Trek) to propel ourselves at nearly the speed of light into deep space.
Or perhaps we could venture out of the solar system and seek refuge on another planet. This is actually possible, due to antimatter and annihalation; where we could actually use a matter-antimatter engine (think Star Trek) to propel ourselves at nearly the speed of light into deep space.
In my class on special relativity two semesters ago we calculated that in order to accelerate a spaceship to 80% of the speed of light you would have to convert something like 2/3 of its mass directly into energy (that's what anti-matter does when combined with matter). So even the "perfect" engine couldn't accelerate us very efficiently to those sort of speeds.
Of course, even 10 or 20 percent of the speed of light is enough to make interstellar travel feasible.
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Fallen from grandeur.
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Surely by 2025 we'll have the technological means to destroy a comet set on a collision course from Earth. Soon a probe will collide with a comet in order to cause debris to spew forth. Having the means to destroy a comet is only but a few years away.
Which Thursday, I'm not sayin'. But it's gonna be a Thursday. Just you watch.
Oh, and don't bother with life insurance.
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Think.
There was a guy back in the 19th century who said that by 1940 London would be buried under 6 feet of horse manure. Then the internal combustion engine was invented. In this case, we already have lots of possibly alternatives for fossil fuels (BTW, fresh water running out? What happened to the water cycle?), it's just the petroleum companies are doing their best to push them out of the picture ("Gasohol? Lets make the public think it's bad for their cars. Hemp instead of nylon? You can make drugs from it, ban it good!")[/pseudo-hippy-commie rant]
Anyway, the end of natural resources doesn't mean the end of human kind, just a mild inconvience.
You are completely accurate. I shouldn't make posts when I'm sleepy I guess. Million should be billion.
However, I remember reading somewhere that considering that the sun is converting H to He (fusion is fun!) that once it tries to start creating Fe, it'll explode in a supernova and that stars that try to do anything above Fe fusionwise, usually it'll be just a nova because splitting atoms that are bigger is less intensive. Compare A bombs to H bombs. At least, that's what the curve of binding energy suggests. And...
http://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374515980/qid=1120469328/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/103-9677192-1345432?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
this is the book if I remember I read on the topic.
Thanks to Le_Gambit for this awesome sig!
More likely, however, is the idea that thoughtless industrial and environmental practices will make something snap, necessitating a reversion of sorts to an earlier state of affairs. I just really don't see the world's current lifestyle as being something sustainable.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
Imagine what could be done if the US and other countries were not wasting Billions of dollars on gas to fly planes, transport soldiers, and move tanks all over the Middle East and if every country was not wasting their time on weapons.... Ah, Imagine....
I have no specefic reasoning for this, outside my own head of course. we're definetly heading downhill, and sooner or later the ****s going to hit the fan.
Fair enough, I swear I read somewhere that it said the sun was big enough for a supernova. Oh well.
The analogy I was making for people that may not have known what we are talking about. I know Fission and Fusion are two seperate things and Fusion is by far more powerful. Basically, bigger atoms means less energy than smaller atoms. See where I'm trying to go with this.
I still believe that if we don't get off this rock or put a job to get off this rock, we'll eventually just run out of food or create enough toxins to kill ourselves. Humans, at nature, are consumers and will sit and consume and take up space. One, I never said this is bad. Two, this suggests that we need to expand as we will eventually pop this bubble and cause massive problems. Ever heard of the 30 day yeast project? Basically they stuck yeast in a mason jar with food and let it sit there sealed. It will double every day until about day 29 where the jar is full of yeast. Day 30 comes and the jar will be empty because the amount of toxins that a full jar, and no way to get out, caused them to die. Solution? Open the jar. The yeast will live a lot longer then.
I suggest a lot of you read the book "The Millenial Project" by Marshall T. Savage. It's a little dated (we now know the caps of mars consist mainly of water and not CO2, which makes it easier to terraform the planet actually) but it has a lot of good points and really interesting ideas that I've never seen tests about.
worthawholebean: I just realized something. Are you from the Boston area? I grew up in Boston then my family moved to Indiana.
Thanks to Le_Gambit for this awesome sig!
a few key ones that i know of:
Wood and Coal go - no fuel (for cars/trains/planes) or power (for houses/atms/computers) unless its either Nuclear (which is a bit of a problem) or green (solar, wind, geothermal) which is rather expensive to set up on a mass scale.
Water - No Crops or Drinking water - ps crops = food
I think that about covers it.
Also no wood = no cardboard = no more Magic cards aaaaagh
If we do have the technology to stop a comet then that's good. I wonder what would happen if a plant just for a little while got off rotation or to the side just a little bit. Then over time two planets would slowly crash together, that would be scary as ass seeing a freakin' planet right over your house. Im not saying it's logical but it would be insane. It's just one of those weird things i've though about before.
Legacy - Full English Breakfast
Vintage - Dragon, Cerebral Assasin, Oath
Hydrogen fuel cells, etc. Wood is renewable so we can at least try to do something about that. Fossil fuels like coal are a worry, but more and more alternatives are coming up. I'm just saying the entire human race isn't going to die the second we run out of fossil fuels.
How are we running out of water? The amount of water that has been depleated by whatever chemical reactions we use is absolutely negligable. Not to mention water that is produced by chemical reactions (incidentally, burning fossil fuels produces water...). Since when have we been running out of water?
EDIT: I just saw your earlier post. Australia is in drought not because we have been using up the water, but because the rain hasn't been hitting us. I blame Victoria's Coal Power Plants for producing polution that causes rain to fall off the coast instead of where it should be.
When the human race will end? Never. There is always a victor in every war, and the human need of survival trumps all.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Some people actually postulate that the 6ht mass extinction event in history is already upon us. Some consider the rise of humans the 6th mass extinction. Therefore the penultimate MEE may be artificial, if it happens.
Personally, I think people a just too hung up on the world ending. We don't exactly know all the factors causing global warming and the ozone layer depletion. In terms of global warming, we really cannot do much about it. For the last several thousand years, the Sun's activity has also generally increased, coincidence, no? The ozone layer is an iffy issue as well. Scientists do not know exactly how long that hole in the ozone layer has been there. It could have been there for a very long time. I believe there are also postulations that the hole fluxes with the change in the Earth's magnetic field. The point is that the issue is still up in the air (no pun intended). Yes, the ozone layer is huge and expanding, but we plain don't know the time scale on this thing. It could just go up in down over time. If anything, we're more likely to suffocate from our own pollutants.
Nuclear War and Plague are very real possibilities however. Considering that a number of 3rd world countries have nuclear programs. The corallary is that they are less afraid to use their weapons due to poor economy etc. They are more likely to use whatever resources at their disposal when dealing with potential threats. (Israel vs. the Middle East, Pakistan vs. India, N. Korea vs. the U.S. , etc.)
Plague is also possible considering small pox never was truly eradicated. (The United States didn't destroy the last vial they had in the 70s, go figure). In addition to an increaingly globalizing world, diseases spread more. Heaven forbid if we ever had a mast breakout of a disease such a Turberculosis, a new strain of Influenza, Small Pox, or that potential Ebola/Small Pox hybrid). Ebola is less likely considering it only happens along several narrow regions in Africa, and it only comes up periodically).
Then there is the up-and coming nanotechnology. Some people have said (on the science channel in fact) that nanotechnology could lead to thew end of the world. Imagine a nanite virus that's immune to like everything getting into a human population. Wherever there is a new technological breakthrough, governments and corporations are right there and ready to abuse it. The nanotech thing is currently left to speculation for now however.
In the end though, I think that no, the world will NOT end.
-[^Gotta Love Kitsune^ Cheers Ken Akamatsu]-
-[DCI Certified Level 1 Judge]-
Better go back to your prob/stat class to learn how much words like "due" mean. And, while you're at it, natural history so you learn exactly how long the dinosaurs were around.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The Club of Rome: We will all work up to a really bad disaster that will destroy us.
Boserup: We'll advance in technology to keep ourselves away from disaster
Gaia Theory: The Earth with self regulate and so wipe us out to keep itself going.
That's what I remember from Geography.
-[^Gotta Love Kitsune^ Cheers Ken Akamatsu]-
-[DCI Certified Level 1 Judge]-
who knows? only god.
Unless mankind screws up SO incredibly badly, we will probably not die out for at least 100 years or so.
now begins the thousand years of REIGN OF BLOOD!
1.5 Cookies to the first person who knows what the hell I am talking about!
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
In other words, when it takes a barrel of oil to extract a barrel of oil, when it takes a cut down tree to cut down a tree, when you have to burn a kilo of coal to burn a kilo of coal, the human population will start rapidly declining.
But I agree with you, Hubert's Peak Oil may begin the process of doom for the homo sapien as it presently exists.
Of course. I was taking the question subjectively. Most people, when asked the question, "When do you think the world will end," are responding to when humanity will end. I could have answered the question:
In approximately 4.5 billion years, when the sun's photosphere will engulf the earth.
But that would have been too literal minded.
I hope, quite seriously (who wants to die?), to last until that day (in artifical form) but now is far too early to understand the nature of machine intelligence.
I also hope Homo futurus will create an artifical planet when the Earth nears the time where the Sun will expand as a red giant and engulfs the Earth. I suggest an artifical planet because, as the Sun would shed its outer layers, it will burn again for a few more million years. However, then, the Sun would probably become very unstable and release lethal doses of gamma rays and X-rays. With the artifical planet, Homo futurus could probably build shields to deflect the gamma and X rays.
Or perhaps we could venture out of the solar system and seek refuge on another planet. This is actually possible, due to antimatter and annihalation; where we could actually use a matter-antimatter engine (think Star Trek) to propel ourselves at nearly the speed of light into deep space.
Who knows?
S_C
Of course, even 10 or 20 percent of the speed of light is enough to make interstellar travel feasible.