No love for the combo deck? I'm a B/W Stoneblade player primarily but I have always had a love for mono black. I played mono black pox for years to great competitive (local) success and ran black stax to less competive success for a while.
Here's my take on a revised version of Tainted Shadow, with a half-full tentative sideboard, additional comments (and a question) below:
1) The removal of phyrexian obliterator seemed like the right move to me, as it opened up 4 slots to ensuring the success of the combo. As an 'alternate win condition' he isn't exactly that. He is also hard to resolve once you've blown your initial mana acceleration in an attempt to get a tainted shadow live. His replacement with gitaxian probe serves as crucial 0cc cantrip for consistency, but also as an invaluable information tool that tells us when we are safe to go all-in.
2) The replacement of inquisition of kozilek with cabal therapy follows as the next logical step from the inclusion of gitaxian probe. With 4x probe and 4x duress, as well as our several other means of drawing into said cards, our chances of seeing the opponent's hand is very high. This makes cabal therapy almost objectively better than inquisition of kozilek, for our purposes, and also allows for that last-ditch effort of flashbacking with a sacrificed spellskite to strip their additional hate, if the need arises. Because cabal therapy hits the integral hate of our choice, (not missing relevant cards like force of will), and because my list has more cantrips, I feel comfortable going to 3 copies instead of 4, giving a flex slot, which leads me to my third point.
3) The inclusion of urborg, tomb of yawgmoth and funeral charm. Granted, Urborg is not a 'budget inclusion', nor does it necessarily need to be a 4-of, but its presence alongside funeral charm is pretty powerful. Note that all 3 of funeral charm's effects are relevant here. The pump is relevant for extra reach, the swampwalk is relevant for unblockability (as opposed to the mere pseudo-unblockability that aphotic-wisps provides), and the discard is relevant for ensuring the combo's successful execution. The downside is that it does not provide a cantrip like aphotic wisps, but I feel as though the versatility and ensured unblockability (swampwalk) mitigates this.
4) The sideboard: moving the 1-of slaughter pact in your list to the board and adding 2 more copies seems fair to me. The 1-of in the initial list is not reliable, nor is it necessary if we only want to kill creatures that actually hinder our ability to push damage through. Extirpate and surgical extraction should speak for themselves, as well as the 4-of inquisition of kozilek. Post-mortem lunge is to deal with removal if spellskite doesn't get us there, but I am least sold on it's inclusion, especially since swords to plowshares is our most feared removal, making 'lunge worse. I am open to suggestions for it's replacement.
Questions:
1) Should I ditch the funeral charms for more aphotic wisps, or something else entirely? Or should I ditch the aphotic wisps for more funeral charms?
2) Sideboard suggestions?
3) Any other comments or criticisms?
I'm glad you like the deck. I have had a ton of fun with it in the past. I guess I will respond to everything you said with the same numbering system.
1) I can certainly respect this choice. Gitaxian probe works well in the deck as it causes you to lose life and it can dig for you. Obliterator was admittedly kind of clunky in the list. I guess I was just afraid that such an all in combo kind of deserved an alternate win in case it couldn't put itself together in time.
2) Yup, this all makes perfect sense to me. I like it.
3) I don't know if I can get behind this change. It is pretty situational and as much as you want it to be, the discard of funeral charm is not that relevant. The swampwalk wont always work because you wont always have both cards, especially in the situations where you need them. The fear from wisps on the other hand, will.
3) the miser slaughter pact was meant to be searched out should the need for it arise, but I can see your logic in removing it. I just like to have some kind of answer to creature hate in the main, especially with all the "tutors" the deck has.
Aphotic wisps is probably the best we are going to get for evasion, which is not all that bad. Bob is really the only black creature we are going to see, and he is not used that often.
Because this deck is just so all in it is very difficult to imagine what a sideboard would look like. Postmortem Lunge is cool but I feel like more often than not it is swords that we will be worrying about, making it kind of worthless.
I like the way you are going, it is just difficult to find more cards for this strategy. I agree with or at least understand your reasoning behind every change and I'm glad someone else liked the deck as much as I did. keep it up and if anything comes of this please let me know.
I'm glad you like the deck. I have had a ton of fun with it in the past. I guess I will respond to everything you said with the same numbering system.
1) I can certainly respect this choice. Gitaxian probe works well in the deck as it causes you to lose life and it can dig for you. Obliterator was admittedly kind of clunky in the list. I guess I was just afraid that such an all in combo kind of deserved an alternate win in case it couldn't put itself together in time.
2) Yup, this all makes perfect sense to me. I like it.
3) I don't know if I can get behind this change. It is pretty situational and as much as you want it to be, the discard of funeral charm is not that relevant. The swampwalk wont always work because you wont always have both cards, especially in the situations where you need them. The fear from wisps on the other hand, will.
3) the miser slaughter pact was meant to be searched out should the need for it arise, but I can see your logic in removing it. I just like to have some kind of answer to creature hate in the main, especially with all the "tutors" the deck has.
Aphotic wisps is probably the best we are going to get for evasion, which is not all that bad. Bob is really the only black creature we are going to see, and he is not used that often.
Because this deck is just so all in it is very difficult to imagine what a sideboard would look like. Postmortem Lunge is cool but I feel like more often than not it is swords that we will be worrying about, making it kind of worthless.
I like the way you are going, it is just difficult to find more cards for this strategy. I agree with or at least understand your reasoning behind every change and I'm glad someone else liked the deck as much as I did. keep it up and if anything comes of this please let me know.
After testing last night I agree with some of your criticisms, namely as regarding the inclusion of funeral charm and urborg, tomb of yawgmoth. I have, however, been entertaining the idea of a blue splash (still in the budget spirit, of course) and have come up with the following list and revised sideboard:
1) I have put a slaughter pact back in the maindeck as I did find myself facing chump block problems when I had no aphotic wisp handy. Dismembers are in the board, as I need removal versus esperblade builds or B/W builds that run bitterblossom and bob.
2) The blue splash is tentative and probably cutesy. Rarely, it let's me avoid life-loss for spellskite activations and gitaxian probe hardcasts, if it so happens that I need life for spoils and plunge. It also opens me up to spell-pierce in the board against opposing combo (think: show and tell).
3) The sideboard includes hate against burn (leyline), as I cannot stand the prospect of getting bolted when I put myself within lethal range.
Any thoughts?
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BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
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In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
I find the Death's Shadow deck interesting (I am fairly new to legacy) but perhaps I am not understanding how it works entirely. So you get your life total down through plunge, spoils, etc, play him. Then I guess next turn give him fear/virulent wound and swing for the win? Even if you get him out early though, how do you protect him for that whole turn he is sitting with summoning sickness? Other than spellskite it seems like he is fairly vulnerable. Anyway, maybe I am just misunderstanding. Thanks!
Really you understand it pretty well. You either use spellskite or discard to make sure he lives. The deck is very all in, so If they top deck a removal spell that you couldnt hit with discard and you don't have spellskite out you are in deep waters. The other side of that though, is that the removal of choice for most decks (swords to plowshares) will give you back all the life you lose, allowing you to use i to search up another guy.
has Knight of Infamy been suggested in either the black weenies or demonic stompy versions? don't know if the exalted would be of any use in the legacy environment though?
and thanks for this article! definitely reignited my desire to play constructed again! been relegating myself to EDH and limited the past year [pricey cards/decks and the people who use em got me down]
has Knight of Infamy been suggested in either the black weenies or demonic stompy versions? don't know if the exalted would be of any use in the legacy environment though?
and thanks for this article! definitely reignited my desire to play constructed again! been relegating myself to EDH and limited the past year [pricey cards/decks and the people who use em got me down]
I thought about knight of infamy and I'm sure he could fit in, I just wasnt sure about it. In the weenie deck you want to be attacking with multiple guys, so the exalted will rarely matter. In the stompy deck 9 times out of 10 task master will just kill him. =/ That's my feeling on it, but it may be false as I have not actually tested it.
@pzMax-
Apostle's Blessing seems like a fine choice. To be honest I forgot that card existed. If you can find room for it go ahead and give it a shot. Tell me if it tests well.
I really like the Demon Stompy deck, but I had two questions. Was Dusk Urchins ever considered for it? And is Dark Ritual that good? I've always heard it was a subpar pick for Demon Stompy.
Dusk Urchins was never considered, I've never heard of the card before. It seems interesting, but I don't know how good it really is. Would have to test it.
Dark ritual was basically my version of a Spirit guide for demon stompy. Chalice Stompy has Elvish Spirit Guide and Dragon Stompy has Simian Spirit Guide. I needed a turn one accelerator that was similar. Since there is no "Demon Spirit Guide" rit was my only other option. =/ It works fine enough for me and gets me my chalices and trini's on turn one just fine. It is an issue when you have chalice at 1 though, and a dark rit or 2 in your hand.
Dusk Urchins was never considered, I've never heard of the card before. It seems interesting, but I don't know how good it really is. Would have to test it.
Dark ritual was basically my version of a Spirit guide for demon stompy. Chalice Stompy has Elvish Spirit Guide and Dragon Stompy has Simian Spirit Guide. I needed a turn one accelerator that was similar. Since there is no "Demon Spirit Guide" rit was my only other option. =/ It works fine enough for me and gets me my chalices and trini's on turn one just fine. It is an issue when you have chalice at 1 though, and a dark rit or 2 in your hand.
I see. I think I'll test a build with Urchins in place of Muse and see how it goes. Thanks for the hard work! Now to ponder a side...
Just wanted to say, I love your budget legacy articles. You keep me competitive with my friends without me having to always play my legacy burn (which is also budget)!
Keep up the great work and keep giving me awesome articles!
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Currently Playing Modern :symu::0mana:Sundering-Architect:0mana::symu: EDH :symr::symg::symw:Uril the Miststalker:symw::symg::symr:/:symb::symg::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain:symw::symg::symb: Legacy :symr:Burn:symr:
Just wanted to say, I love your budget legacy articles. You keep me competitive with my friends without me having to always play my legacy burn (which is also budget)!
Keep up the great work and keep giving me awesome articles!
Hey, just glad I can help. Being able to turn a hobby into something that can help others enjoy their hobby is pretty cool for me. Glad you like what I'm doing, so thanks to you as well!
Hey,
I've been picking up black cards for legacy for a while now after reading this article, but I couldn't remember the individual decklists while I was shopping, so as a result I have bits and pieces for all of them if I have already picked up the following, what should I be looking for next?
I guess i'm kind of looking for Mono-Black Aggro Control with a small splash if needed, starting with a budget deck using what i've got, then working towards something more refined. I think the Death's Shadow and the Creakwood lists coincide closest with what I have, but as i'm mostly unfamiliar with Legacy any help would be much appreciated.
With the lilianas, dRits, Duress etc. I would probably play pox/mono black control. ensnaring bridge and a few others from your random list can be used as well.
Thanks for that, I had a quick trip over to the Pox thread after posting here, and it seems like I could make a decent Pox deck with what i've got. The Lilianas were my christmas present to myself, so i'm waiting for them to arrive.
I've been wanting to make a Legacy Vampire deck for a while and this article finally got me around to it, but I have one question. Why no Vampire Nocturnus? Is the information you're giving away to your opponent really too much of a disadvantage?
Honestly, I just don't like Vampire Nocturnus. For one, his pump is not a sure thing. If I am paying 4 mana for a lord I would like to have his pump be constant. Also, Vampire Nocturnus is more for aggressive style vampire decks, maybe something you would also play Stromkirk Captain in. The list I provided is much more of a mid-range deck, opting to let card advantage bring you victory, not aggression through pumps. Of course, this is all just my opinion though, Vampire Nocturnus is not necessarily a bad card, so if you want to try and find room for him, test him out, it wouldn't be a horrible choice.
I personally don't think that Ghost Quarter is worth the potential mana problems it causes you, but that's just me. I would also argue that without wasteland Crucible of worlds is really just not worth it. Everything else looks pretty nice though.
Spooky what would a budget list of Spanish Inquistion(mono black storm) can it function without lion's eye diamondsince most of the other cards are mostly cheap.
edit: never mind found a list for it thanks anyway
I'm glad you like the deck. I have had a ton of fun with it in the past. I guess I will respond to everything you said with the same numbering system.
1) I can certainly respect this choice. Gitaxian probe works well in the deck as it causes you to lose life and it can dig for you. Obliterator was admittedly kind of clunky in the list. I guess I was just afraid that such an all in combo kind of deserved an alternate win in case it couldn't put itself together in time.
2) Yup, this all makes perfect sense to me. I like it.
3) I don't know if I can get behind this change. It is pretty situational and as much as you want it to be, the discard of funeral charm is not that relevant. The swampwalk wont always work because you wont always have both cards, especially in the situations where you need them. The fear from wisps on the other hand, will.
3) the miser slaughter pact was meant to be searched out should the need for it arise, but I can see your logic in removing it. I just like to have some kind of answer to creature hate in the main, especially with all the "tutors" the deck has.
Aphotic wisps is probably the best we are going to get for evasion, which is not all that bad. Bob is really the only black creature we are going to see, and he is not used that often.
Because this deck is just so all in it is very difficult to imagine what a sideboard would look like. Postmortem Lunge is cool but I feel like more often than not it is swords that we will be worrying about, making it kind of worthless.
I like the way you are going, it is just difficult to find more cards for this strategy. I agree with or at least understand your reasoning behind every change and I'm glad someone else liked the deck as much as I did. keep it up and if anything comes of this please let me know.
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Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
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After testing last night I agree with some of your criticisms, namely as regarding the inclusion of funeral charm and urborg, tomb of yawgmoth. I have, however, been entertaining the idea of a blue splash (still in the budget spirit, of course) and have come up with the following list and revised sideboard:
2 Underground River
9 Swamp
4 Death's Shadow
4 Spellskite
4 Spoils of the Vault
4 Plunge Into Darkness
4 Tainted Darkness
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Aphotic Wisps
2 Chrome Mox
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
2 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Cabal Therapy
1) I have put a slaughter pact back in the maindeck as I did find myself facing chump block problems when I had no aphotic wisp handy. Dismembers are in the board, as I need removal versus esperblade builds or B/W builds that run bitterblossom and bob.
2) The blue splash is tentative and probably cutesy. Rarely, it let's me avoid life-loss for spellskite activations and gitaxian probe hardcasts, if it so happens that I need life for spoils and plunge. It also opens me up to spell-pierce in the board against opposing combo (think: show and tell).
3) The sideboard includes hate against burn (leyline), as I cannot stand the prospect of getting bolted when I put myself within lethal range.
Any thoughts?
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
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Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.
and thanks for this article! definitely reignited my desire to play constructed again! been relegating myself to EDH and limited the past year [pricey cards/decks and the people who use em got me down]
I thought about knight of infamy and I'm sure he could fit in, I just wasnt sure about it. In the weenie deck you want to be attacking with multiple guys, so the exalted will rarely matter. In the stompy deck 9 times out of 10 task master will just kill him. =/ That's my feeling on it, but it may be false as I have not actually tested it.
@pzMax-
Apostle's Blessing seems like a fine choice. To be honest I forgot that card existed. If you can find room for it go ahead and give it a shot. Tell me if it tests well.
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Dark ritual was basically my version of a Spirit guide for demon stompy. Chalice Stompy has Elvish Spirit Guide and Dragon Stompy has Simian Spirit Guide. I needed a turn one accelerator that was similar. Since there is no "Demon Spirit Guide" rit was my only other option. =/ It works fine enough for me and gets me my chalices and trini's on turn one just fine. It is an issue when you have chalice at 1 though, and a dark rit or 2 in your hand.
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I see. I think I'll test a build with Urchins in place of Muse and see how it goes. Thanks for the hard work! Now to ponder a side...
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Keep up the great work and keep giving me awesome articles!
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Hey, just glad I can help. Being able to turn a hobby into something that can help others enjoy their hobby is pretty cool for me. Glad you like what I'm doing, so thanks to you as well!
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I've been picking up black cards for legacy for a while now after reading this article, but I couldn't remember the individual decklists while I was shopping, so as a result I have bits and pieces for all of them if I have already picked up the following, what should I be looking for next?
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bitterblossom
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
3 Spellskite
4 Death's Shadow
1 Plunge into Darkness
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pox
4 Smallpox
2 Slaughter Pact
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Nihilith
I also have some off-color stuff and stuff for modern that could help:
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Trinisphere
1 Life from the Loam
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Lingering Souls
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
3 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Abrupt Decay
I guess i'm kind of looking for Mono-Black Aggro Control with a small splash if needed, starting with a budget deck using what i've got, then working towards something more refined. I think the Death's Shadow and the Creakwood lists coincide closest with what I have, but as i'm mostly unfamiliar with Legacy any help would be much appreciated.
Cheers,
Toby
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
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Cheers, and Merry Christmas,
Toby
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
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2 Ghost Quarter
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
1 Forest
Artifacts:
3 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures:
4 Bloodghast
2 Creakwood Liege
Instants and Sorceries:
3 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
1 Raven's Crime
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
2 Life from the Loam
1 Syphon Life
1 Worm Harvest
4 Duress
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pernicious Deed
Any thoughts?
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
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edit: never mind found a list for it thanks anyway